Why are white people expats when the rest of us are immigrants?

[empireboy]

I am who I an irrespective of what you call me.... But, even many poeple who know your name still refer to you amongst themselves when talking in their own language as "Falang" and if that's not disrespectful, what exactly is it?

[jaywalker]

In Thailand, aside from a tourist visa, every visa name starts off with "Non-Immigrant", like they really have an immigrant visa available to issue??

[tropo]

Obviously, we didn't cut them out. And obviously we weren't buying love. We simply arrived on time according to plan, and greedy sister suddenly got cold feet, decided she didn't like the idea after all.

Tough bounce. Here we are and here we shall stay. Everything going extremely well for us, too, by the way. Thanks for asking. We've even made it bigger and better than Sister could ever hope to do. She's tenacious, but not brilliant nor talented.

Nothing was obvious and it seemed like you were cutting them out. Obviously I don't have all the facts and I'm making my observation on what you gave us.

[tropo]

An expat is someone that will never integrate into the society that he is in, an Immigrant will make more efforts to integrate into his new home.

OK, so based on that I'm definitely only an expat.

[Blackfish64]

I am who I an irrespective of what you call me.... But, even many poeple who know your name still refer to you amongst themselves when talking in their own language as "Falang" and if that's not disrespectful, what exactly is it?

The Thai I know in the United States call white people "farang" there, too. If "farang" really means "foreigner," then why don't they call themselves "farang?"

It's clearly disrespect, racism, and ignorance, egotism, narcissism.

You should hear the incredibly nasty manner in which my sister in-law calls me "farang." She truly despises foreigners. She grins and loves them when they come to spend their money, but when their backs are turned, so, too, does Sister's demeanor... "Ugly, stupid farang!"

[Benmart]

Because western people have nostalgy of colonialism and slavery

Sorry, I cant speak for all the western people. I have not asked each and every one of them about their view of the topic.

[Benmart]

I usually address people by their name, if I know it. I try to avoid lumping everyone into boxes, particularly if I don't know them or any details about them.

When I try to categorize or label people, I am mostly wrong.

For me, there are more important things in life,other than calling a person this or that.

Live and Let Live.

[thedude82]

total pc whining...move along

[nahkit]

I always thought that the term 'expat' referred to someone who was doing a job overseas for a fixed-term whereas an immigrant was someone who was there to stay, regardless of whether they worked or not.

[nahkit]

Because western people have nostalgy of colonialism and slavery

Yes, how I miss those days of slavery, still your mind does tend to wander a bit when you are 207 years old.

(for those that aren't quite sure, the above is sarcasm, Britain finally outlawed slavery in 1807).

[nahkit]

<script type='text/javascript'>window.mod_pagespeed_start = Number(new Date());</script>

Being white, then it is ones birth right, if you happen to be yellow, it's just too bad fellow and to be black, accept it as a matter of fact. The mighty man dictates your dealt hand so when you again stand in line, don't whine - just remember better luck next time.

AS Wiston Churchill once stated "to be born white and English is akin to winning lifes lottery" I tend to agree with him.

Most sources attribute that quote to Cecil Rhodes, some refer also to Rudyard Kipling, but definitely not Winston Churchill.

[Tomtomtom69]

Because western people have nostalgy of colonialism and slavery

Not in Thailand though. All foreigners are slaves and have no rights here in Thailand.

[ToddinChonburi]

Why do they get to call me white man ? sounds like a racist statement to me. I am an Irish German American .

Political correct bullshit !!!!! They do not want to see skin color but bring it up constantly. Bunch of hipicrits

[Tomtomtom69]

I always thought that the term 'expat' referred to someone who was doing a job overseas for a fixed-term whereas an immigrant was someone who was there to stay, regardless of whether they worked or not.

You're exactly right and that IS what it means. The liberal self-hating "white" writer of this article however was obviously on some kind of guilt trip when she wrote it.

If anything, if she were right, which she isn't, I would be more offended by being called an expat than an immigrant because being an expat means you are not integrating into society, whereas as an immigrant you are. And as you say, an expat is someone who goes overseas, usually for work, for a temporary period while retaining their usual nationality. They live in the foreign country on temporary visas, usually renewable on an annual basis or whatever rules are in place in the host country (for example, 2 years for Aussies on the E-3 visa temporarily working in the USA or migrant labourers or BOI workers in Thailand).

Whereas an immigrant is someone who has moved to another country, for whatever reason although usually economic reasons, who has the intention of settling in said country and eventually acquires the nationality of the host country.

The term expat is also more appropriate in non-immigrant countries like Thailand than in immigrant receiving countries like the USA. Although an Aussie worker on an E-3 or H1B visa working in the USA is rightfully an expat until such time they obtain a permanent residence visa, generally speaking any foreigner living and working in the USA is either an immigrant or potential immigrant, whereas a foreigner working in Thailand, who normally has little desire or ability to become a Thai citizen is almost certainly an expat, even if they've lived in Thailand for many years. It also doesn't matter if they're a so-called "migrant labourer" from Myanmar or Cambodia, which means nothing more than that they're guest workers who are working in low-skilled blue collar jobs to fill labour shortages or a highly skilled "expat" worker who works in a white collar profession. Neither group are immigrants unless they receive permanent residency visas, which are very difficult to obtain no matter who you are or where you come from. The most likely group to obtain a Thai permanent residency visa are high income westerners, Chinese or Japanese who likely have a Thai wife and have settled into Thai life fairly well and would like to make their home here. However, given there is only a small quota and very long waiting periods, few foreigners end up making the cut.

Therefore, I can guarantee that no matter if you're African, European or Burmese, you're no immigrant in Thailand and always an expat, unless you're one of those lucky few who happens to have obtained either permanent residency or citizenship.

Quite a contrast to the USA, where at least a million foreigners become citizens every year and many more obtain green cards, while hundreds of thousands of foreigners become Aussie permanent residents and citizens each year, despite having only about a third of the population of Thailand.

[KelinUT]

While living in Japan I had to carry a registration card at all times that stated I was an 'Alien', as did every other person not born in Japan, but including several generations of Koreans who were born in Japan! (I am Australian by the way)

Get over the definitions and name calling aspect of bureaucracy and societies all over the world, and get on with some better reporting..

[emilymat]

Farangs are only expats to themselves. To Immigration we are all the same -aliens on the form.

Thanks. At last some common sense.

I had a friend who go into a fierce argument with me because I gently pointed out he was an alien, as was I.

I still remember his words 'Don't be daft, I'm a farang. Are you telling me I'm the same as a Korean?"

[Tomtomtom69]

I am who I an irrespective of what you call me.... But, even many poeple who know your name still refer to you amongst themselves when talking in their own language as "Falang" and if that's not disrespectful, what exactly is it?

The Thai I know in the United States call white people "farang" there, too. If "farang" really means "foreigner," then why don't they call themselves "farang?"

It's clearly disrespect, racism, and ignorance, egotism, narcissism.

You should hear the incredibly nasty manner in which my sister in-law calls me "farang." She truly despises foreigners. She grins and loves them when they come to spend their money, but when their backs are turned, so, too, does Sister's demeanor... "Ugly, stupid farang!"

Those ignorant Thais should go back to Thailand then. Anyway, a white person in Thai is "khon khao" and should be referred to as such, especially in America.

[KelinUT]

I always thought that the term 'expat' referred to someone who was doing a job overseas for a fixed-term whereas an immigrant was someone who was there to stay, regardless of whether they worked or not.

Agreed...that is also what I believe is the correct definition. Colour is irrelevant and the journalists comments are rascist

[Blackfish64]

I usually address people by their name, if I know it. I try to avoid lumping everyone into boxes, particularly if I don't know them or any details about them.

When I try to categorize or label people, I am mostly wrong.

For me, there are more important things in life,other than calling a person this or that.

Live and Let Live.

Right, right. Learn what someone prefers to be called and use it. Otherwise simply refer to someone as, "The gentleman in the white T-shirt," or, "The lady in the purple dress," or, "That bunch of people over there," etc. Learn some manners.

Anyone who calls me, "farang," I instantly lose all respect for, and instantly forgo giving them any "polite Thai" conversation. I go right into my wild, wild west demeanor, giving them a lesson on what that's all about.

I learned long ago the Thai don't like anything dynamic, unsettling, disturbing. When in doubt--rattle their cage.

[Tomtomtom69]

I thought the white people here were just visitors (guests).

Hardly enough to be an immigrant.

I think we are considered more like interlopers

Precisely. They love our money--but they don't love us.

My sister in-law despises me with a passion. For ten years wife and I pumped American dollars over to she and her husband to help build this business. After more than a decade, wife and I could finally come live here and get our dream.

When we arrived and Sister noticed the monthly deposit wasn't in the account, she came and asked what was the matter. We were blown away by her inquiry. Of course, we live here now, we explained, quit our jobs in America, and run the business and now the business will need start paying us.

Sister absolutely flipped out and refused to speak to us for days. What could she possibly have been thinking was beyond me.

Near as I can tell, she thought since she was the eldest, she was clearly in control of the family and made all decisions. Our money was hers and that's final. Of course, I laughed in her face at this ridiculously stupid idea. She flashed a stare at me and in less than a second I went from the sweetest man in the world to "farang."

That was well over a year ago. She still refers to me as "farang," but only behind my back. She hasn't spoken a word to me since that meeting.

I am the interloper, here to destroy the family, according to Sister's mind, and I need be done away with. I taught Wife that she has her own brain and spine and that we will be just fine without being Sister's slave. Wife was afraid to stand up to her at first, and I had no idea how crazy Sister really was until I got here. Yikes. She's done all she can think of to be rid of me, but I just smile and keep on my merry way.

The Interloper. Perfect.

What kind of business are we talking about? I think it might be a good idea to ditch the sister and run the business by yourself, employing the necessary number of local staff of course, but at least you can trust them and they'll be your employees.

[Tomtomtom69]

I usually address people by their name, if I know it. I try to avoid lumping everyone into boxes, particularly if I don't know them or any details about them.

When I try to categorize or label people, I am mostly wrong.

For me, there are more important things in life,other than calling a person this or that.

Live and Let Live.

Right, right. Learn what someone prefers to be called and use it. Otherwise simply refer to someone as, "The gentleman in the white T-shirt," or, "The lady in the purple dress," or, "That bunch of people over there," etc. Learn some manners.

Anyone who calls me, "farang," I instantly lose all respect for, and instantly forgo giving them any "polite Thai" conversation. I go right into my wild, wild west demeanor, giving them a lesson on what that's all about.

I learned long ago the Thai don't like anything dynamic, unsettling, disturbing. When in doubt--rattle their cage.

Last year I was on a business trip with my dad and his Thai colleague, himself a businessman who runs a rice mill consultancy business. We drove from Chiang Rai and Chiang Mai via Mae Sot down to Bangkok, visiting a rice mill and another small factory on the Myanmar side just outside of Myawady along the way. I always knew the guy was a bit fishy, but even though he knows I speak fluent Thai, he still had the audacity to say over the phone: "oh, a farang is driving the car" referring to me, without explaining who I was. I think he was talking to his wife, who happens to know who I am. How dare he. How disrespectful and racist. Imagine if he came to Australia, or the USA or any other civilized country, he was driving and I happened to be on the phone with my friend and were to say something like: "oh yeah, I'm with this Asian who's driving the car".

I was completely taken aback by how this man, who I have known for a number of years (although not very well, but still) would reduce me just to some random person with that cheap shot term "farang", which can mean any number of negative things depending on the context. If I were his wife I'd be confused and even disturbed that some "random foreigner" was driving him the country around given his explanation, rather than properly explaining who I was and providing my name, which would have settled any concerns I would have. But apparently his wife was OK with the bizarre explanation that a "farang was driving".

Needless to say I don't respect the guy anymore after that, although others have been telling me to be careful about him too.

[Tomtomtom69]

By immigrant they mean they are trying to take jobs from people in countries they are living in. I don't think many "white" people do that. They aren't even allowed in most cases. And most countries do not allow outside nationalities to become citizens. That IS racist since "white" countries are the only countries giving citizenship to outside nationalities. France allows Algerians to become French citizens but Thailand does not allow a Frenchman to become a Thai citizen.

That is more or less right, although it's not quite as black and white as that. Thailand does allow Frenchmen to become Thai citizens, though it is very rare and even if a Frenchman does obtain Thai citizenship, Thai society will be and large not recognize his nationality as being Thai even if the Thai state does. In Asia, only Singapore regularly gives out citizenship to foreign residents and then only after 12 year residency and you have to give up any foreign nationalit(ies) you have. That's quite sad given that Singapore is a tiny country with just 5 million residents, out of the whole of Asia which has something like 4? billion? and they are the only country in the region normally willing to grant a foreigner citizenship? Goes to show just how racist some countries in the region are, particularly Korea and Japan, who are in dire need of more people to stop their shrinking populations but don't want to have any of it. Racial purity is more important to them than the eventual economic collapse that may eventually follow given their demographic woes and shrinking populations.

But you are right in that it's mostly just "white" countries that grant citizenship to outsiders, because even super rich Japan doesn't. In fact, Japan is even more homogeneous and less likely to grant a foreigner citizenship than Thailand does.

Edited March 16, 2015 by Tomtomtom69

[Robert24]

Sometimes youhave to ask yourself who writes such silly articles.

the word expat has nothing to do withyour race or colour of skin. I know many Asian expats in Hong Kong, Singapore, London. And I also know many Japanese expats in Thailand. the word expat relates to white collar jobs that's all. Example: A polish construction worker in the UK is called a migrant worker and not expat because of his job even though he is a Caucasian.

[KelinUT]

By immigrant they mean they are trying to take jobs from people in countries they are living in. I don't think many "white" people do that. They aren't even allowed in most cases. And most countries do not allow outside nationalities to become citizens. That IS racist since "white" countries are the only countries giving citizenship to outside nationalities. France allows Algerians to become French citizens but Thailand does not allow a Frenchman to become a Thai citizen.

That is more or less right, although it's not quite as black and white as that. Thailand does allow Frenchmen to become Thai citizens, though it is very rare and even if a Frenchman does obtain Thai citizenship, Thai society will be and large not recognize his nationality as being Thai even if the Thai state does. In Asia, only Singapore regularly gives out citizenship to foreign residents and then only after 12 year residency and you have to give up any foreign nationalit(ies) you have. That's quite sad given that Singapore is a tiny country with just 5 million residents, out of the whole of Asia which has something like 4? billion?

But you are right in that it's mostly just "white" countries that grant citizenship to outsiders, because even super rich Japan doesn't. In fact, Japan is even more homogeneous and less likely to grant a foreigner citizenship than Thailand does.

During almost 20 years living in Japan as an 'Alien', I know only of one person to gain Citizenship. The gentleman who obtained that (an American) had lived in the Japan almost 40 years, was more adept at the language than many young Japanese (under 40) whom I know. He also had a PHD from a Japanese University and I daresay knew more about Japanese culture and society than most Japanese.

[Broeno]

In Thailand everybody is "FARANG". Except for Indians and middle eastern people are called "Kaeg", and Africans are called "Afrigan".

As my wife told me: other Asian are not FARANG.

[meltingpot2015]

Immigrant refers to the country one goes to.

Expat refers to the country one came from.

If you leave your country you're an emigrant from the country you leave. When you arrive in another country you're an immigrant to that country. In both cases you're considered a migrant.

Dictionary definitions from www.merriam-webster.com

Immigrant - a person who comes to a country to live there

emigrant - a person who leaves a country or region to live in another one : a person who emigrates

In spoken language it'll be way to confusing to use emigrant, it sounds the same as Immigrant. Expat is simpler, easier, rolls-off the tongue.

Anyway, I think the Original article is talking about the use of 'immigrant' to label someone from a particular country/region. In the UK, I have heard 'immigrant' used in a negative way....'immigrants' from Somalia. Whereas Expats are from the U.S, Canada, Australia.

Edited March 16, 2015 by meltingpot2015

[MartinL]

Right, right. Learn what someone prefers to be called and use it. Otherwise simply refer to someone as, "The gentleman in the white T-shirt," or, "The lady in the purple dress," or, "That bunch of people over there," etc. Learn some manners.

Anyone who calls me, "farang," I instantly lose all respect for, and instantly forgo giving them any "polite Thai" conversation. I go right into my wild, wild west demeanor, giving them a lesson on what that's all about.

I really don't care what anybody calls me if they don't know me.

However, yesterday I was in the park with my wife when we met a young couple we know with their 2 year old son. The couple know my name, know who I am - as in Jin's husband - and we run into them every couple of months and stop to talk.

The little boy was being a bit shy so dad said to him "Go and say hello to the farang". He could so easily have said "Say hello to ... Martin ... or loong ... or that man ... " or a number of similar descriptions but no, he had to use 'farang'. I'm afraid that, in those circumstances, I view it as similar to saying " ... go play with the dog ...".

I tried to explain why I found it impolite, in my not-too-good Thai and my wife elaborated a bit but it seemed to go right over his head.

Dad's a doctor, BTW.

Edited March 16, 2015 by MartinL

[arjunadawn]

The author of this article only sees race; only writes about race; and views all life through a racial lens. This can be inferred by the post but confirmed by a cursory glance through the internet at the other articles this author has written. By definition this makes him unqualified to discuss race. Because he is black does thus qualify him to discuss racism through a reverse lens. All the argument one needs to make regarding this man's bona fides as a racist his to review his outlandish assertion that South Africa dismantled its nuclear program because when Mandela was released [they] (assuming white people) feared black people having nuclear weapons. He then goes on to lament how if South Africa retained nuclear weapons it would be much stronger internationally (read black people). It cannot be both ways.

Again, it is an affront all all TV members that this thread remains unlocked. Forget this article in itself, peruse his other works. Would the same platform be provided to a KKK Klansman, such as David Duke, disparaging black people under the cover of investigative query? No!

http://sasodomgomorrah.blogspot.com/2014/09/the-dark-truth-about-why-south-africa.html

[laubau]

Have a clue! For the same reason, only while people are called Farangs by Thais, Kwai lo by Chinese, Orang Bulleh by Indonesians, Masaleh by Malaysians, Orang Puteh by Singaporeans and Haole by Hawaiians!!

[Blackfish64]

I thought the white people here were just visitors (guests).

Hardly enough to be an immigrant.

I think we are considered more like interlopers

Precisely. They love our money--but they don't love us.

My sister in-law despises me with a passion. For ten years wife and I pumped American dollars over to she and her husband to help build this business. After more than a decade, wife and I could finally come live here and get our dream.

When we arrived and Sister noticed the monthly deposit wasn't in the account, she came and asked what was the matter. We were blown away by her inquiry. Of course, we live here now, we explained, quit our jobs in America, and run the business and now the business will need start paying us.

Sister absolutely flipped out and refused to speak to us for days. What could she possibly have been thinking was beyond me.

Near as I can tell, she thought since she was the eldest, she was clearly in control of the family and made all decisions. Our money was hers and that's final. Of course, I laughed in her face at this ridiculously stupid idea. She flashed a stare at me and in less than a second I went from the sweetest man in the world to "farang."

That was well over a year ago. She still refers to me as "farang," but only behind my back. She hasn't spoken a word to me since that meeting.

I am the interloper, here to destroy the family, according to Sister's mind, and I need be done away with. I taught Wife that she has her own brain and spine and that we will be just fine without being Sister's slave. Wife was afraid to stand up to her at first, and I had no idea how crazy Sister really was until I got here. Yikes. She's done all she can think of to be rid of me, but I just smile and keep on my merry way.

The Interloper. Perfect.

What kind of business are we talking about? I think it might be a good idea to ditch the sister and run the business by yourself, employing the necessary number of local staff of course, but at least you can trust them and they'll be your employees.

Miles ahead of you. But thanks just the same. Workin' on it. It will take some time to get the doing done. ;-)