Thai Doesn't mean Free

[MaeJoMTB]

They don't have any problem with the correct spelling. All the evidence I've seen points to ผัดไท being just plain wrong.

Well done Mr. Prime.

1835 and ไท

[AyG]

The ย was added later so I doubt it has any indication of the word root. If I recall correctly it was added simply to differentiate it from ไท. I can find references as early as 1835 calling Siam เมืองไท, e.g. this trial coin from 1835: http://thailand.coinvalues.asia/Thailand/King_Rama_III/Elephant_Type/

What is written on the coin is "Mueang Thai". This refers to a city state in the north of what is now Thailand - not to Thailand (or rather, Siam as it then was). That city state was spelled without the final yor yak. So, for example, พระเพชรคีรี was titled เจ้าแก้วเมืองไท ณ ลำปาง.

In short, ไทย and ไท are different words, and I have yet to see any evidence that ไทย has ever (correctly) been spelled ไท.

[wprime]

The ย was added later so I doubt it has any indication of the word root. If I recall correctly it was added simply to differentiate it from ไท. I can find references as early as 1835 calling Siam เมืองไท, e.g. this trial coin from 1835: http://thailand.coinvalues.asia/Thailand/King_Rama_III/Elephant_Type/

What is written on the coin is "Mueang Thai". This refers to a city state in the north of what is now Thailand - not to Thailand (or rather, Siam as it then was). That city state was spelled without the final yor yak. So, for example, พระเพชรคีรี was titled เจ้าแก้วเมืองไท ณ ลำปาง.

In short, ไทย and ไท are different words, and I have yet to see any evidence that ไทย has ever (correctly) been spelled ไท.

The coin was prepared for King Nangklao (Rama III) for Siam not some other city state.

[AyG]

The coin was prepared for King Nangklao (Rama III) for Siam not some other city state.

That makes absolutely no sense. The country at the time was called Siam. If the coin was prepared for Siam, why not put Siam on the coin? Why put the name of a city state on the coin? And specifically why "mueang" (meaning "city state"), not "prathet" (country)?

Given that at the time the country was not unified, it's perfectly conceivable that different coinage was used in different parts of the country, and this coin was intended for the north.

(Incidentally, the coin doesn't resemble the other coins of King Rama III's reign, which have on them a Chakra-Prasat mark. I rather doubt it even is a coin. Perhaps a gaming token, or some sort of souvenir.)

There's nothing here that makes me think ไทย is simply a newer spelling for ไท.

[wprime]

The coin was prepared for King Nangklao (Rama III) for Siam not some other city state.

That makes absolutely no sense. The country at the time was called Siam. If the coin was prepared for Siam, why not put Siam on the coin? Why put the name of a city state on the coin? And specifically why "mueang" (meaning "city state"), not "prathet" (country)?

Given that at the time the country was not unified, it's perfectly conceivable that different coinage was used in different parts of the country, and this coin was intended for the north.

(Incidentally, the coin doesn't resemble the other coins of King Rama III's reign, which have on them a Chakra-Prasat mark. I rather doubt it even is a coin. Perhaps a gaming token, or some sort of souvenir.)

There's nothing here that makes me think ไทย is simply a newer spelling for ไท.

I suggest you do your research, this piece is a trial coin ordered by King Nangklao and is well documented, yes there were different coins used in different parts of the country but this coin was intended for Siam.

This is from the Journal of the Siam Society, Vol 11.2 (1914-1915).

See the article about the Modernisation of Thai Coinage on the Treasury's eMuseum website which also discusses the coin as the first attempt at regular coinage (at the time Siam used pod duang (bullet money) and bia shells): http://emuseum.treasury.go.th/articles-en.html (it's down at the moment so you'll need to wait until later)

[wprime]

In answer to your first question, the people called the nation เมืองไท at the time. Siam was a named used by Europeans. E.g from the book Description du Royaume Thai ou Siam (1854).



The first paragraph says "The country that Europeans call Siam, refers to itself as Muang Thai (Kingdom of the Free)".

I'm going through my library trying to find where I read this, but if I recall correctly the ย was added in 1939 to differentiate it from the old name.