Retiree Income Tax

[berbo]

Hello,

I intend to move to Thailand and seek the 'retiree visa'. (I am 51 years of age - citizen of Belgium)

My pension starts only at the age of 60, so I will have to transfer 800.000,- Thai Baht in order to qualify.

Will I have to pay any taxes during my stay in Thailand??

Thank you for your help.

[jcgodber]

The short answer is NO! The only taxes that you pay would be the VAT tax or value added tax when shopping for some items.

The only other tax that I HAVE to pay is the U.S. Federal Government for income tax due on some of my pensions.

Cheers, Jim

[califdann]

Thanks for the info Jim;

Do you have your retirement income sent to a Thai bank, or do you use ATMs etc...?

DMC

[jcgodber]

DMC-

You are very intuitive. You have just hit on my current interest. I have both my pensions direct deposited into my California bank. For the last 4 years I have simply used an ATM virtually anywhere in Thailand to access my funds and have never had a problem. Never a problem? Well there is just one thing that has made me angry, my bank has gotten very greedy and now charges me 1% extra because it is an international withdrawal, PLUS the normal per use charge for getting MY money. With the now added international charge I have now said “B-ll Sh—and now refuse to use my ATM card unless it is an emergency. I used to find myself using the ATM approximately 3 to 4 time per month, each time withdrawing 20,000 baht.

My new plan was to open an account here with Siam City Bank (in my name) and have automatic wire transfers routinely sent to my new bank here. One problem was I have not been very successful in finding anyone back at my California bank that understood just how to accomplish this. Oh! They could do a one time wire transfer but the problem was getting the to set up the automatic part.

My newfound solution is-

I have deposited a personal check drawn against my U.S. bank and deposited here into my Thai bank account. The banks (Siam City Banks) charge for this was 210 baht and of course my U.S. bank has no charge for checks if I keep a balance of $1000 or whatever it is.

So far I have found that the check took 8 calendar days to clear in the U.S. and am now waiting for the funds to be placed into my Thai account. Yesterday I went into the bank here to let them know that “I knew” that the funds are now in their hands. I was informed that the main branch in Bangkok has advised that it will just be another day or two. I do understand that the banks just love to get the free use of your money called “float”

The jury is still out as to whether this will be a good plan to transfer funds. I just know that by using the ATM here in my case was starting to add up to several hundreds of dollars per year.

Hope this has helped. Any other help that I can be just ask.

Cheers, Jim

[migrant]

The jury is still out as to whether this will be a good plan to transfer funds. I just know that by using the ATM here in my case was starting to add up to several hundreds of dollars per year.

Hope this has helped. Any other help that I can be just ask.

Cheers, Jim

Hey Jim,

Please could you follow up, either by thread or PM, as to how that worked.

I'm a Californian (Orange County) planning on being there full time in 4-5 years. It's early, but I'm a planner, and transferring funds will be a big part of it.

My kids are here, but I do not want to impose.

Washington Mutual does not charge a monthly fee, but their ATM charges internationally are 1%

If the checks clear within a reasonable time, then I can just plan (again being a bean counter) ahead.

Thanks!

[backflip]

I used my financial institution to transfer money to Thialand, both for my retirement and for a home. I first transfer ($20K US) took about a week. The 2nd transfer ($160K) took less than 12 hours. My financial institution covers all ATM fees, domestic and international, if I manitain a certain level of financial instruments at the institution. Slick.

[califdann]

Thanks for the info. Most financial institutions in the US have a per wire transfer charge which ranges in the $25.00 - $35.00. My bank in Cambodia charges a $5.00 per check charge for checks written on my U.S. bank. It also takes almost a month to clear. The U.S. bank does not have a charge for this. There are no charges for writing checks (except for wire fee) if I maintain a minimum balance. I belive that this is true for most U.S. banks. Additionally, I maintain an account with a minimum balance in Thailand, even though they pay no interest. I have not tried to deposit U.S. checks into my Thailand bank account yet. Does anyone know if there is a charge for doing so in Thailand? If not, this may be the way to go. That is: Have the retirement check deposited into the U.S. bank (for me), and write checks into the Thai bank, with withdrawals from the Thai bank. Anyone have comments on this?

DMC

[jcgodber]

You may have missed where I had written that My Thai bank Siam City Bank charged me 220 baht

Jim

[Thaiquila]

OK, this brings up a question I was wondering about.

If your Thai bank would accept a US check and it eventually clears, would there be a code in your passbook that would indicate that these funds came in from abroad (for retirement visa qualification purposes)?

I know there is such a code that is clear for SWIFT wire transfers, but I wonder about out-of-Thailand checks.

Anyone have any experience with this detail?

[jcgodber]

Backflip-

I was somewhat surprised that you transferred so much money into Thailand, not that it is wrong but I had a terrible experience.

I too transferred a very large sum into the Bank of Bangkok back in 1997. At that time the baht was about 25 –26 to the dollar. Over night the economy here collapsed and the Thai baht was suddenly worth less than half. I lost half of my in country cash. Ever since I keep most of my money in the states.

[jcgodber]

I simply went to my online banking web site and copied and printed the endorsed and stamped check (both sides) that my bank posted online from B of A and Siam city bank I have the documented proof that the funds indeed came from abroad.

[migrant]

You may have missed where I had written that My Thai bank Siam City Bank charged me 220 baht

Jim

That could still be better. WAMU is 1% for international ATM w/ds. Once the timing is down, perhaps a few transfers a year would work.

Many opinions, mine is that I would rather keep my $'s in the states (plus when the time comes I have some assets to sell that will probably require me to take payments).

So by having the account in the states, and replenishing the Thai account, perhaps 4-5 times a year, may accomplish my obkective, and at 220 (or 210) bt that works OK.

Was the fee a flat amount? Or do you think it is based upon amount?

Thanks for doing the legwork!!

[dutch]

My experience is from Holland (more near Belgium )

Before I left Holland (definitively) in 1998,I arranged a non-resident account with my bank ABNAMRO.

This included a internet banking possibility.

I also arranged a fix amount in euro's to be transfered to my foreign account on a monthly base.

Now I can change this amount-the frequency-the transfer date, as I please.

I also can transfer any extra amount as I please,using internet banking.

My monthly transfer costs are euro 10,-

I also kept my (credit card)eurocard with them as well as an international ATM card.

In the meantime I changed address from Indonesia to Thailand and everything went perfect.(as long as your own planning is timely and spottless !!!)

For income tax please look at the (possible) tax agreement between your countries.

[dutch]

I checked (on line) if money was transfered from my dutch bankaccount yesterday (every 29th of the month as agreed) and it was.

100% sure that tonight,when I check (on line) my UOB account it will be in.

The code in my bankbook will indicate that it is a foreign transfer.

I not understand all this ATM and check business,if it can be that easy.

I simply not believe that the banksystem in USA cannot do the same.

[Mrjlh]

All very interesting reading since I will be moving there in two weeks. My banking plan is pretty simple and rather easy. I hope it really works this way.

I have BofA and all US checks go there. I simply open a Thai bank account, email that info to my bank contact in the US, who in turn activates the Thai bank as as "bill pay payee" on my account. That takes only a couple of days while they send a small amount to verify accuracy. After that it's a simple "bill pay" for what ever amount US I need at only $.35 per transaction not a $35.00 wire fee. Once or twice a month I can live with the $.35 charge. Normally it's free but they charge for the foreign transaction. At least that's what I've been told and is stated on their website.

I don't know what the Thai bank is going to charge me. From what I've read so far the Bangkok Bank is the safest and the best. Any comment?

[jcgodber]

The Siam City Bank charge is a flat rate regardless of the amount.

I am doing $5000 just this time as a test and once I am satisfied that all is OK will be writing a personal check every 90 days. My plan would be to deposit the check here in Thailand the needed number of days prior to the time it take for the transfer to complete.

One other thing to think about - It is easy to bring money into the kingdom and yet another thing to take it back out.

[jcgodber]

I read what you wrote and I too have been into my B of A bank in trhe States to set up myself as a payee here in Thailand. This was at the suggestion of the bank person.

When I got back to Thailand I went to set myself up as a payee and was informed by Bank of America that they don't do international payees. I just now cut and pasted this from the Banks web site-

"Tip: Keep in mind that you can pay virtually any company or individual in the United States through Bill Pay, even if they do not appear on our payee list."

One other problem that I have had with the bank is the high rate of turn-over of personel there. Just as soon as you find someone at your branch that understands just what you are doing they move on and when you try to contact the bank no one know what the heck your talking about I have gone thru this now for 2 years in a row as I have return to California each year to take care of business.

I have just once again sent email to the B of A asking if they do in fact do international payees

[Thaiquila]

I am thoroughly unsurprised that US banks would not transfer money this way as international bill pay payees! Too easy!

Remember, SWIFT transfers are big in the news as a prime way Homeland Security is checking on international money transfers. If anything, I expect US restrictions to get even tighter and more difficult in the coming years. More American related info can be found here:

http://www.retireaway.com/forum

I have another comment. I think Americans planning on retiring in Thailand should consider that it is rather likely that they will have to fly back to the US more than they want to deal with these kinds of problems. You can make the best made plans of mice and men, and then the rules change on you. You kind of have to add these costs when estimating your expat budget.

I have a vision that someday some major national American bank will see the potential of the American expat market and customize their products, services, and marketing for this market. For now, we are too few and out of sight, out of mind. Compare us the expat friendly culture of the UK.

Edited August 30, 2006 by Thaiquila

[jcgodber]

Very recently I had a good friend who also lives here in Thailand go to his local ATM machine to get some much needed cash. The machine refused him for whatever reason. As he know that he had plenty of money in the bank he tried to use his wife’s ATM card and that too had been shut off. He called the band back in the states and was advised that it was “just a temporary glitch” and wood be OK soon. Soon never came. The man had to borrow money to return the states and straighten out the problem with his bank in person.

Just to avoid the same pitfall I have some traveler’s checks that I keep in a safe, just in case.

Jim

[Thaiquila]

Very recently I had a good friend who also lives here in Thailand go to his local ATM machine to get some much needed cash. The machine refused him for whatever reason. As he know that he had plenty of money in the bank he tried to use his wife’s ATM card and that too had been shut off. He called the band back in the states and was advised that it was “just a temporary glitch” and wood be OK soon. Soon never came. The man had to borrow money to return the states and straighten out the problem with his bank in person.

Just to avoid the same pitfall I have some traveler’s checks that I keep in a safe, just in case.

Jim

Interesting.

A while back I read an account from an US embassy embassy worker who enters the homes of deceased US expats in Thailand. What he said is that he always finds a serious stash of CASH in these homes. Perhaps insurance against fickle and paranoid American banks? I hope Thai thieves don't read this board.

[IMA_FARANG]

DMC-

You are very intuitive. You have just hit on my current interest. I have both my pensions direct deposited into my California bank. For the last 4 years I have simply used an ATM virtually anywhere in Thailand to access my funds and have never had a problem. Never a problem? Well there is just one thing that has made me angry, my bank has gotten very greedy and now charges me 1% extra because it is an international withdrawal, PLUS the normal per use charge for getting MY money. With the now added international charge I have now said “B-ll Sh—and now refuse to use my ATM card unless it is an emergency. I used to find myself using the ATM approximately 3 to 4 time per month, each time withdrawing 20,000 baht.

My new plan was to open an account here with Siam City Bank (in my name) and have automatic wire transfers routinely sent to my new bank here. One problem was I have not been very successful in finding anyone back at my California bank that understood just how to accomplish this. Oh! They could do a one time wire transfer but the problem was getting the to set up the automatic part.

My newfound solution is-

I have deposited a personal check drawn against my U.S. bank and deposited here into my Thai bank account. The banks (Siam City Banks) charge for this was 210 baht and of course my U.S. bank has no charge for checks if I keep a balance of $1000 or whatever it is.

So far I have found that the check took 8 calendar days to clear in the U.S. and am now waiting for the funds to be placed into my Thai account. Yesterday I went into the bank here to let them know that “I knew” that the funds are now in their hands. I was informed that the main branch in Bangkok has advised that it will just be another day or two. I do understand that the banks just love to get the free use of your money called “float”

The jury is still out as to whether this will be a good plan to transfer funds. I just know that by using the ATM here in my case was starting to add up to several hundreds of dollars per year.

Hope this has helped. Any other help that I can be just ask.

Cheers, Jim

Jim:

Regarding your comment about getting recurring transfers. I have a small bank in Massachusetts. They set me up with a recurring transfer. I have a reference number from the bank. I have to notify them via phone or email when I want to make a transfer. Need my ID code and the bank refernce number to authorize wire transfer. I had to fill out paperwork with the bank to start this, but now I can make a wire transfer at request.

You should be able to get same service from your bank, but will probably have to fill out application, sign it, and return via snail mail to start the process.

Most times it takes 2 or 3 days to transfer money to Bangkok Bank

[jcgodber]

You are right-

The officer at my Bank of America also told me about doing the same as you suggest, making a phone call having a code number etc. Frankly I am not comfortable having to try and make a call to my bank and the try to explain what I want . Each time you call you get a new person and have to re-tell the story

[Beavis and Butthead]

The ATM card I had been using for 2 solid years stopped working in Feb for unknown reasons. Fortunately I had a backup I've been using since. I never did call that bank to find out why it stopped working suddenly. I'd have been sunk. I have a contact at that bank if I need to get a new card or prob fixed though. That's the advantage of a small local bank. I have a 3rd backup account just in case but never tried that card, Perhaps I should. I used to stash a lot of cash but those days are gone

[Thaiquila]

You are right-

The officer at my Bank of America also told me about doing the same as you suggest, making a phone call having a code number etc. Frankly I am not comfortable having to try and make a call to my bank and the try to explain what I want . Each time you call you get a new person and have to re-tell the story

I am in the process of setting up wire agreements with banks in the US. They all have their own policies and you have to ask alot of questions about their policies.

I am keeping a US address on the accounts. The wire agreements also contain US address and phone, sometimes fax numbers. Trouble is it is common that it is impossible to change the contact info on the wire agreement without going into a US branch. You can change the account part online or by a signed letter, but not the wire agreement. (At least two major banks told me this.)

So if your faux US address or contact info changes, you are screwed, especially if your wire agreement involves calling you, faxing you, or writing you for confirm. At one bank, I made sure to ask for no confirmation of any kind on the wire. All I have to do is call the 800 number and tell them the amount, my wire room PIN, and a repetitive code number. However, if my address changes and they ever send me anything important, and the mail gets returned, I suspect they would freeze the wire agreement. They also might freeze it if they can see the info is different from my bank account.

One solution that looks promising? Etrade bank! Looking for more experiences about them, but pretty much everything looks to be online there. You can wire from etrade bank with a faxed form, or from their brokerage account online, and a repetitive wire can be established with your email confirmation. They do require hefty minimums to avoid rather hefty service charges, another case of increasing your budget as an American expat.

There is another issue that I is related worth mentioning. US STATE DRIVER'S LICENSING.

A US citizen can't OPEN a US bank account with a valid one (if you know an exception, let me know) or one of those non driving state ID cards.

There is a law in congress to make these licenses even more like national passports. There is an excellent chance this will come into play in the next years.

If you are an expat and you come back to the US to deal with some business at your US banks, I fear that in some cases now, and certainly in the future, it might be a serious problem to effect any kind of action on your accounts without a current US driver's license.

For example, you come back to the US to change the details of your wiring agreement in person as required by the bank. They ask you for ID to prove you are this person. Your ID is a passport. They don't accept passports, only state IDs. Then what?????

Not a passport, a license. I would be interested in peoples comments about this issue.

I have concluded the wisest option is to do all you can to retain a valid US state license. Not always easy, and sometimes depending on the state requiring unwanted travel and expense.

Edited August 31, 2006 by Thaiquila

[migrant]

I have a client whose accounting and taxes we handle, American in Thailand, and one of my employees transfers money to him on a regular basis, B of A and the last couple have cost $45, ouch! They have been large wires, over 10,000$.

[Gary A]

I use Citibank in California for my primary bank. My pensions are direct deposited into my checking account. I seldom use credit cards but when I do, I pay them with Citibank's free bill pay service. Citibank charges no fees for ATM or my accounts as long as I keep a minimum of $6,000 US dollars in the account. CDs count as a minimum balance and I currently get 5.5 percent interest on a six month CD. I have a US Visa card and a US bank account. Both addresses on the accounts are in Thailand. I have no US address.

I have two Siam Commercial Bank accounts here. One is in Pattaya and the other is in Loei. I have an ATM card from both branches and ATM transactions are free as long as the ATM is in the same province. I wire transfer money from Citibank two or three times a year. They charge a flat $30 for the wire transfer regardless on the amount. I make the transfer in US dollars so there is no currency exchange fee from Citibank. Siam Bank has a small fee but it is not much. I get the same exchange rate that is shown on Yahoo financial.

As with most US banks there is an ATM currency exchange fee of one percent. The ATM transaction itself is free. I checked a few of the "E" Banks and found that they don't do international wire transfers. At one time I used my US ATM card a lot and only one time had a problem. I called them and they told me that there was an unusual transaction so they froze my account. The unusual transaction was an ATM transaction from Thailand. ??? I suggested that they look at all my previous transactions. They immediately re-activated my ATM card and there were no more problems.

ADDED - I haven't been in my Citibank branch for three years. Everything is done via the Internet.

Edited August 31, 2006 by Gary A

[lopburi3]

1. US drivers licence is good to keep, except for those from States that try and tax them, like CA.

2. I have used passport for ID at bank for the last 15 years with no problem (no photo on drivers licence). They want drivers licence when you open by mail so they can verify - if in person passport should always work.

3. There are specific accounts that some banks can open by mail without drivers licence (believe non checking) as long as the person has an SSN. And they have been mentioned here previsously.

4. $45 is not all that much when you transfer large amounts as you do receive a very good exchange rate and the Thai bank charge is very little. My US/Bangkok Bank transfers take less then 12 hours from a small bank and phone calls never last more than 5 minutes even with hold to bring up information screens from computer.

[jcgodber]

Isent an email to MY Bank of America today asking once again " Can I make an international payment"

This is the reply that they sent to me. I t seems quite clear that they want to collect a large fee rather than the .35 that you have spoke of-

Thank you for your inquiry dated 8/30/06.

We understand your concerns regarding overseas payment. Please be

informed that to make a payment to an overseas payee we recommend you

to

establish an outgoing wire transfer. To establish an outgoing wire

transfer, please visit one of our local banking centers to perform the

wire in person or establish repetitive wire service. Unfortunately, we

are unable to provide wire transfer service via e-mail, Online Banking,

the Bank of America Web site, or telephone.

For the location of the nearest Bank of America banking center, please

visit www.bankofamerica.com and use the ATM and Banking Center locator

link on the lower left side of the home page.

If you are unable to visit one of our banking centers, we recommend

using a commercial wire service.

In order to establish an outgoing wire transfer, you will need the

following information about the recipient as well as any additional

information that the receiving bank may require:

- Name on the account

- Bank name

- Account number

- Routing number

The fees for outgoing wire transfers are:

International Money Transfers:

- US Currency or USD International $45.00

- Foreign Currency or Foreign Exchange $35.00.

We apologize for any inconvenience this may cause. If we may be of

further assistance, please contact us again by e-mail. Thank you for

choosing Bank of America.

Sincerely,

I hope that answers the question of internation al payees with the Bof A

Jim

[Gary A]

If you do a search for B of A you will find a thread where many people complained about their fees. If you do a wire transfer with a US bank do it in US dollars and there will be no currency exchange charge. The Thai bank charge is very small.

As far as paying taxes here in Thailand you won't pay any unless you have income from Thailand.

[Tywais]

The Siam City Bank charge is a flat rate regardless of the amount.

I am doing $5000 just this time as a test and once I am satisfied that all is OK will be writing a personal check every 90 days. My plan would be to deposit the check here in Thailand the needed number of days prior to the time it take for the transfer to complete.

Would be interesting to see what the exchange rate you get on the $ to THB.