Wine In Checked Baggage

[Anthony5]

I have my European Mastercard linked to a few pay services like Paypal and Google wallet. Currency exchange is performed by my CC, and not by Paypal or Google.

So my purchases are charged to the CC in the currency they are listed.

As of lately I notice that I get very bad exchange rates, where in the past I got the best exchange rates.

A few examples.

On 13/03 Thai Baht was exchanged at 33.86 against the Euro, while XE learns me that during that day the exchange floated between 34.50 and 34.92

On 03/03 USD was exchanged at 1.1032 against the Euro, while XE again tells me 1.1150and 1.1182

On 18/02 USD was 1.1204 against the Euro, while XE floats between 1.1350 and 1.1405 on that day.

Is this something someone else noticed with his Mastercard or other CC, or is there something I'm missing?

[Pib]

When you quote rates from forex sites like XE.com that is the mid-market rate...it is neither "buy" nor "sell" rates. Instead, they are mid-market rates derived from the mid-point between the "buy" and "sell" rates from global currency markets. It also the rate for BIG, BIG money trading; not the exchange rate the common man gets nor the exchange rates that banks or card network companies (Visa/Mastercard) provide. Bank and card network rates are lower...banks and card network companies make profit on those spreads.

Additionally, forex sites show real time exchange rates at that BIG money level; exchange rates at banks and card network companies lag that rate...card company rates lag such rates around 1 or 2 business days which could be 3 calendar days if occurring over a weekend since card networks (Visa/Mastercard) usually only adjust their rates every 24 business hours....and even when they make the adjustment it is not purely based on what the forex market did yesterday but what they thing it will do over the next day or two. Bank exchange rates lag less but still lag. Also, when it comes to a credit card purchases, although you may purchase an item today the exchange rate given is for the date the charge "posts" to your account when will usually be several days later...it's not the date of purchase.

Also, does your credit card carry a foreign transaction fee for foreign purchases/ATM withdrawals. Not uncommon for such cards to carry a 1 to 3% foreign transaction fee. Maybe your card-issuing bank increased their foreign transaction fee.

Only use forex sites as a guide to estimate what your Mastercard/Visa exchange rate will be "once you determine what foreign transaction fee your card may carry and how long the lag time usually is in exchange rate change."

[Anthony5]

When you quote rates from forex sites like XE.com that is the mid-market rate...it is neither "buy" nor "sell" rates. Instead, they are mid-market rates derived from the mid-point between the "buy" and "sell" rates from global currency markets. It also the rate for BIG, BIG money trading; not the exchange rate the common man gets nor the exchange rates that banks or card network companies (Visa/Mastercard) provide. Bank and card network rates are lower...banks and card network companies make profit on those spreads.

Additionally, forex sites show real time exchange rates at that BIG money level; exchange rates at banks and card network companies lag that rate...card company rates lag such rates around 1 or 2 business days which could be 3 calendar days if occurring over a weekend since card networks (Visa/Mastercard) usually only adjust their rates every 24 business hours....and even when they make the adjustment it is not purely based on what the forex market did yesterday but what they thing it will do over the next day or two. Bank exchange rates lag less but still lag. Also, when it comes to a credit card purchases, although you may purchase an item today the exchange rate given is for the date the charge "posts" to your account when will usually be several days later...it's not the date of purchase.

Also, does your credit card carry a foreign transaction fee for foreign purchases/ATM withdrawals. Not uncommon for such cards to carry a 1 to 3% foreign transaction fee. Maybe your card-issuing bank increased their foreign transaction fee.

Only use forex sites as a guide to estimate what your Mastercard/Visa exchange rate will be "once you determine what foreign transaction fee your card may carry and how long the lag time usually is in exchange rate change."

Thanks for the explanation, but I emailed my bank and their answer is very interesting.

They told me that the exchange rate will happen at a fixed rate, which I agreed with when I opened an account, and that they can be checked on the Mastercard website.

That is where it gets interesting.

This is the link where you can check the rates for every currency and each day.

https://www.mastercard.com/global/currencyconversion/index.html

If you enter the values and dates from my examples in the OP in the converter, you will see that the published rate is comparable to the rates I got from XE, but that in reality they applied a lower rate as the one they show on their website.

I have replied to my bank, but so far they haven't responded.

Edited March 18, 2015 by Anthony5

[Pib]

Yeap, sounds like your card-issuing bank applies a foreign transaction fee which is typically in the 1 to 3 percent range...and possibly a flat-fee just to rub salt in the wound. Just go to your card-issuing bank's website and look at the terms, conditions, & fees for your card as it will tell you if a foreign transaction fee(s) is applied although your card-issuing bank may make it hard to find any foreign transaction fee it may apply as some banks don't seem to be to upfront about that fee.

The exchange rate at the Mastercard exchange rate website you gave above reflects the rate with no foreign transaction fee applied by your card-issuing bank. If your bank charges a foreign transaction fee they will take the Mastercard rate and reduce it by X-percent...like 1 to 3%...then charge that amount to your account which means you paid 1 to 3% more and that 1 to 3% is card-issuing bank profit.

Just flat out ask your card-issuing bank what foreign transaction fee(s) apply to your card if you can't find the info on their website.

Edited March 18, 2015 by Pib

[Anthony5]

Yeap, sounds like your card-issuing bank applies a foreign transaction fee which is typically in the 1 to 3 percent range...and possibly a flat-fee just to rub salt in the wound. Just go to your card-issuing bank's website and look at the terms, conditions, & fees for your card as it will tell you if a foreign transaction fee(s) is applied although your card-issuing bank may make it hard to find any foreign transaction fee it may apply as some banks don't seem to be to upfront about that fee.

My card issuing bank is known to charge no fees for anything. Even international transfers are carrying no fee.

Look up Argenta Bank.

[Pib]

Maybe you have been unknowing accepting a Dynamic Currency Conversion (DCC) exchange rate when using your card. If the sales slip shows both Thai baht and your home country currency then that is a DCC transaction which provides an exchange rate 2 to 4% lower than the Mastercard/Visa exchange rate. Don't sign the sales slip, tell them to cancel that transaction, and run it again by charging Thai baht/local currency.

Or if using your card in an ATM, if you accept a DCC transaction which may be worded as Bank Rate, Home Rate or some other warm & fuzzy name on the ATM screen it's really a DCC transaction...just say no and continue on with a regular ATM transaction to receive the higher Mastercard/Visa exchange rate.

[Jip99]

There seems to be a conflict between your opening statement that Mastercard sets the rate and what your bank are telling you.

That suggests that the retailers may be applying DCC to the transactions which would explain the variance,

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dynamic_currency_conversion

Edited March 18, 2015 by Jip99

[Anthony5]

Maybe you have been unknowing accepting a Dynamic Currency Conversion (DCC) exchange rate when using your card. If the sales slip shows both Thai baht and your home country currency then that is a DCC transaction which provides an exchange rate 2 to 4% lower than the Mastercard/Visa exchange rate. Don't sign the sales slip, tell them to cancel that transaction, and run it again by charging Thai baht/local currency.

Or if using your card in an ATM, if you accept a DCC transaction which may be worded as Bank Rate, Home Rate or some other warm & fuzzy name on the ATM screen it's really a DCC transaction...just say no and continue on with a regular ATM transaction to receive the higher Mastercard/Visa exchange rate.

I don't use my CC in an ATM or in shops. All my payments are through Paypal or Google Wallet, where the currency of the sale is charged to my CC, and my CC company does the exchange to Euro.

On the website of my bank in the fees for credit cards is clearly listed that they apply the exchange rate that is published on the Mastercard website.

[Anthony5]

There seems to be a conflict between your opening statement that Mastercard sets the rate and what your bank are telling you.

That suggests that the retailers may be applying DCC to the transactions which would explain the variance,

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dynamic_currency_conversion

I don't use my CC to purchase with retailers. Paypal or Google wallet charge the amount of my purchase to my CC in the currency the purchase was made, and my CC does the conversion.

DCC doesn't come in play.

[Jip99]

If I have understood correctly, what you have said, it appears that you are transacting with, say, PAYPAL in a local currency i.e. Dollars.

PAYPAL is then transacting with Mastercard to convert the transaction into EURO.

It is at this point that the rate is set and PAYPAL surely incorporate a fee in there somewhere. There can be no other explanation for the rate differing from the figures that your bank has advised.

Edited March 18, 2015 by Jip99

[Anthony5]

If I have understood correctly, what you have said, it appears that you are transacting with, say, PAYPAL in a local currency i.e. Dollars.

PAYPAL is then transacting with Mastercard to convert the transaction into EURO.

It is at this point that the rate is set and PAYPAL sure incorporate a fee in there somewhere. There can be no other explanation for the rate differing from the figures that your bank has advised.

Paypal get's their fee from the seller.

In the Paypal setting you can choose conversion by Paypal or charge to CC.

On my CC satements it says clearly

486 USD for company xx date 03/03/2015 exchange rate 1 Euro = 1.1032 dollar total - 440,53 Euro

Edited March 18, 2015 by Anthony5

[Jip99]

Intriguing.

Forget XE, your source is the link below. Mastercard rates were as follows on 3rd March (as per your first post):-

https://www.mastercard.com/global/currencyconversion/

USD United States dollar

1.115300

[Anthony5]

Intriguing.

Forget XE, your source is the link below. Mastercard rates were as follows on 3rd March (as per your first post):-

https://www.mastercard.com/global/currencyconversion/

USD United States dollar

1.115300

But 1.115300 isn't the same as 1.1032 isn't it?

If you check all the examples I posted with the Mastercard rates, you will notice that in all cases I was charged a rate negative to their published rate and this seems to go on for at least the last 6 months.

[Suradit69]

Maybe you have been unknowing accepting a Dynamic Currency Conversion (DCC) exchange rate when using your card. If the sales slip shows both Thai baht and your home country currency then that is a DCC transaction which provides an exchange rate 2 to 4% lower than the Mastercard/Visa exchange rate. Don't sign the sales slip, tell them to cancel that transaction, and run it again by charging Thai baht/local currency.

Or if using your card in an ATM, if you accept a DCC transaction which may be worded as Bank Rate, Home Rate or some other warm & fuzzy name on the ATM screen it's really a DCC transaction...just say no and continue on with a regular ATM transaction to receive the higher Mastercard/Visa exchange rate.

"Maybe you have been unknowing accepting a Dynamic Currency Conversion (DCC) exchange rate when using your card. "

Yes, when I (rarely) use my US MasterCard for charges in Thailand, the rate they use is quite good ... and then at the end of the month they add on the (%#@%%) foreign transaction "fee," which makes it less so. Even when using the card on Amazon UK (where I can ask them to bill me in dollars) MasterCard charges the foreign transaction fee.

But a couple of times I used it at Bangkok Pattaya Hospital where they show you the amount you'll be charged in dollars before you authorize the charge. the exchange rate has been quite bad ... but I use that dollar amount for reimbursement from my US insurance so it's their loss, not mine.

I have my European Mastercard linked to a few pay services like Paypal and Google wallet. Currency exchange is performed by my CC, and not by Paypal or Google

Whenever I've used PayPal for purchases on eBay set in non-US dollar amounts, they (and/or eBay) has set the dollar amount to be billed to MasterCard ... and MC still adds on the foreign transaction fees.

Edited March 19, 2015 by Suradit69

[Jip99]

Intriguing.

Forget XE, your source is the link below. Mastercard rates were as follows on 3rd March (as per your first post):-

https://www.mastercard.com/global/currencyconversion/

USD United States dollar

1.115300

But 1.115300 isn't the same as 1.1032 isn't it?

If you check all the examples I posted with the Mastercard rates, you will notice that in all cases I was charged a rate negative to their published rate and this seems to go on for at least the last 6 months.

My point exactly!

You have had 0.05 'skimmed off' by someone.

From what you say I doubt that is Argenta (unless they lie about their costs), Mastercard's rate is fixed according to their chart, so that leaves PAYPAL as the likely culprit.

EUR 4.75 equates to more than a 1% difference in the end cost to you.

[Anthony5]

Intriguing.

Forget XE, your source is the link below. Mastercard rates were as follows on 3rd March (as per your first post):-

https://www.mastercard.com/global/currencyconversion/

USD United States dollar

1.115300

But 1.115300 isn't the same as 1.1032 isn't it?

If you check all the examples I posted with the Mastercard rates, you will notice that in all cases I was charged a rate negative to their published rate and this seems to go on for at least the last 6 months.

My point exactly!

You have had 0.05 'skimmed off' by someone.

From what you say I doubt that is Argenta (unless they lie about their costs), Mastercard's rate is fixed according to their chart, so that leaves PAYPAL as the likely culprit.

EUR 4.75 equates to more than a 1% difference in the end cost to you.

The fact that there is a specific exchange rate on my CC statement means that my bank can be the only reason.

If Paypal would add something there would be no exchange rate as they would charge in Euro, or some costs would be added to the initial amount, but they are never in a position that they can influence the exchange rate printed on my CC statement.

[Swiss1960]

But 1.115300 isn't the same as 1.1032 isn't it?

If you check all the examples I posted with the Mastercard rates, you will notice that in all cases I was charged a rate negative to their published rate and this seems to go on for at least the last 6 months.

My point exactly!

You have had 0.05 'skimmed off' by someone.

From what you say I doubt that is Argenta (unless they lie about their costs), Mastercard's rate is fixed according to their chart, so that leaves PAYPAL as the likely culprit.

EUR 4.75 equates to more than a 1% difference in the end cost to you.

The fact that there is a specific exchange rate on my CC statement means that my bank can be the only reason.

If Paypal would add something there would be no exchange rate as they would charge in Euro, or some costs would be added to the initial amount, but they are never in a position that they can influence the exchange rate printed on my CC statement.

If there is an exchange rate mentioned on your CC statement, then of course it is your bank that fixes this rate. Based on EU consumer protection regulations (same is true for Switzerland), your bank is OBLIGED to show you exactly how the exchange rate was calculated. My Swiss bank as an example tells me

"exchange rate from date dd.mm.yyyy at x.xxxx, basis Bank YYYY foreign exchange sales rate up to CHF 25'000, adding n.nn% processing surcharge"

processing surcharge for Swiss Issuing banks is anything from 0.75 to 2.5% - depending on the product you have and all other fees charged there. Credit Cards with no annual fee normally have higher processing surcharges on foreign currency transactions - banks need to make money from somewhere

[Pib]

Yeap, sounds like your card-issuing bank applies a foreign transaction fee which is typically in the 1 to 3 percent range...and possibly a flat-fee just to rub salt in the wound. Just go to your card-issuing bank's website and look at the terms, conditions, & fees for your card as it will tell you if a foreign transaction fee(s) is applied although your card-issuing bank may make it hard to find any foreign transaction fee it may apply as some banks don't seem to be to upfront about that fee.

My card issuing bank is known to charge no fees for anything. Even international transfers are carrying no fee.

Look up Argenta Bank.

I went to the Argenta Bank Netherlands website...it shows two credit cards...one called Golden Mastercard credit card and one just a Mastercard credit card. Both of them have the following foriegn transaction fee statement/fee whenever the transaction is not in Euro like in Baht:

• Exchange Commission: 1.5% of the amount as payment or cash withdrawal is done in a currency other than the euro.

This 1.5% exchange commission will be deducted from the exchange rate from the Mastercad Exchange Rate webpage. Forget about using XE.Com and similar type forex websites other than general reference as that is "not" the rate banks or card networks (Mastercard/Visa) use as they use a lower rate...that lower rate (spread) is how they make some of their profit.

If the website I went to is not your bank then please provide the specific link to your bank and current credit card so we can further help you in figuring out the exchange rate your are getting.

[Anthony5]

But 1.115300 isn't the same as 1.1032 isn't it?

If you check all the examples I posted with the Mastercard rates, you will notice that in all cases I was charged a rate negative to their published rate and this seems to go on for at least the last 6 months.

My point exactly!

You have had 0.05 'skimmed off' by someone.

From what you say I doubt that is Argenta (unless they lie about their costs), Mastercard's rate is fixed according to their chart, so that leaves PAYPAL as the likely culprit.

EUR 4.75 equates to more than a 1% difference in the end cost to you.

The fact that there is a specific exchange rate on my CC statement means that my bank can be the only reason.

If Paypal would add something there would be no exchange rate as they would charge in Euro, or some costs would be added to the initial amount, but they are never in a position that they can influence the exchange rate printed on my CC statement.

If there is an exchange rate mentioned on your CC statement, then of course it is your bank that fixes this rate. Based on EU consumer protection regulations (same is true for Switzerland), your bank is OBLIGED to show you exactly how the exchange rate was calculated. My Swiss bank as an example tells me

"exchange rate from date dd.mm.yyyy at x.xxxx, basis Bank YYYY foreign exchange sales rate up to CHF 25'000, adding n.nn% processing surcharge"

processing surcharge for Swiss Issuing banks is anything from 0.75 to 2.5% - depending on the product you have and all other fees charged there. Credit Cards with no annual fee normally have higher processing surcharges on foreign currency transactions - banks need to make money from somewhere

My bank shows me also how they calculate the exchange rate, they state that they use the rate that is published daily on the Mastercard website, and they conveniently provided me with a link to the website, which I posted above.

In their tariff list is also clearly stated that they have a fee of 1.5% on the exchange rate for cash payments, and 4 Euro for ATM withdrawals, but no fee for online payment services.

Edited March 19, 2015 by Anthony5

[Anthony5]

Yeap, sounds like your card-issuing bank applies a foreign transaction fee which is typically in the 1 to 3 percent range...and possibly a flat-fee just to rub salt in the wound. Just go to your card-issuing bank's website and look at the terms, conditions, & fees for your card as it will tell you if a foreign transaction fee(s) is applied although your card-issuing bank may make it hard to find any foreign transaction fee it may apply as some banks don't seem to be to upfront about that fee.

My card issuing bank is known to charge no fees for anything. Even international transfers are carrying no fee.

Look up Argenta Bank.

I went to the Argenta Bank Netherlands website...it shows two credit cards...one called Golden Mastercard credit card and one just a Mastercard credit card. Both of them have the following foriegn transaction fee statement/fee whenever the transaction is not in Euro like in Baht:

• Exchange Commission: 1.5% of the amount as payment or cash withdrawal is done in a currency other than the euro.

This 1.5% exchange commission will be deducted from the exchange rate from the Mastercad Exchange Rate webpage. Forget about using XE.Com and similar type forex websites other than general reference as that is "not" the rate banks or card networks (Mastercard/Visa) use as they use a lower rate...that lower rate (spread) is how they make some of their profit.

If the website I went to is not your bank then please provide the specific link to your bank and current credit card so we can further help you in figuring out the exchange rate your are getting.

Capturecard1.JPG

Capturecard2.JPG

If you go to the tariff list it clearly says CASH payments. Actually it says that in your own quote.

Paypal is not a cash payment.

When I download the excel file with all transaction from my online bank, there is a tab that says "Fee for cash payment" and which is empty.

Edited March 19, 2015 by Anthony5

[Pib]

If you go to the tariff list it clearly says CASH payments. Paypal is no cash payment.

If you would provide a weblink it would be very helpful. All I know is what the the bank's website said...the link/image I provided...it says a 1.5% commission as payment (a.k.a., a charge) or cash when the transaction is not in Euro...like in Baht.

You seem very reluctant to accept the possibility your card-issuing bank is charging a foreign transaction fee.

[Anthony5]

If you go to the tariff list it clearly says CASH payments. Paypal is no cash payment.

If you would provide a weblink it would be very helpful. All I know is what the the bank's website said...the link/image I provided...it says a 1.5% commission as payment (a.k.a., a charge) or cash when the transaction is not in Euro...like in Baht.

You seem very reluctant to accept the possibility your card-issuing bank is charging a foreign transaction fee.

Indeed because in an email regarding this matter d.d. 28 January my bank informed me that they charge no fees and advised me to take contact with Paypal or Mastercard directly.

http://www.argenta.be/nl/Images/2015%2003%2016%20NL%20Tarieflijst_tcm55-1420.pdf

Edited March 19, 2015 by Anthony5

[Pib]

Until they provide you a link to their webpage or their Terms & Conditions/Fees were you can read it in-print I would take that customer support email response with a big grain of salt. They should be able to easily provide you a link. Plus, ask them why does their webpage says on their credit cards clearly state a 1.5% foreign transaction commission? I'm sure they use the Mastercard exchange rate as their starting point, but maybe the customer support rep kinda failed to mention or didnt' know that, "Oh yea, there will be a 1.5% commission which effectively lowers the rate when the charge hits your account."

The PDF link you gave above does not open for me...it appears to try to connect to your bank's website and then errors out and says webpage not available. Why don't you download the PDF document and then upload it as an attachment to your post...that way the PDF document is on the Thaivisa.com server vs your bank's server. I tried using Chrome and IE...says bad weblink. Edit: stop, I got IE to open a "cached copy" but its not in English so I "no can read/understand it."

Also, without reading through all the posts again, and assuming you are in Thailand, since you feel PayPal may be the source of the reduced exchange rate and it could very well be "Have you tried paying for a local purchase like in Lotus, Big C, etc., with your Mastercard and then seeing what exchange rate you get? That takes PayPal completely out of the loop. Now assuming Lotus, Big C., don't trick you into a DCC transaction which is highly unlikely at those stores, then any exchange rate difference between the Mastercard exchange rate page and the charge that posts to your account is your "card-issuing bank" applying a foreign transaction fee/commission.

By the way here's the a PayPal link taking about their currency conversion fee which is generally 2.5%, but actually if varies from about 1 to 2.5% depending on the currency-pair. Link

Edited March 19, 2015 by Pib

[Anthony5]

Until they provide you a link to their webpage or their Terms & Conditions/Fees were you can read it in-print I would take that customer support email response with a big grain of salt. They should be able to easily provide you a link. Plus, ask them why does their webpage says on their credit cards clearly state a 1.5% foreign transaction commission? I'm sure they use the Mastercard exchange rate as their starting point, but maybe the customer support rep kinda failed to mention or didnt' know that, "Oh yea, there will be a 1.5% commission which effectively lowers the rate when the charge hits your account."

The PDF link you gave above does not open for me...it appears to try to connect to your bank's website and then errors out and says webpage not available. Why don't you download the PDF document and then upload it as an attachment to your post...that way the PDF document is on the Thaivisa.com server vs your bank's server. I tried using Chrome and IE...says bad weblink. Edit: stop, I got IE to open a "cached copy" but its not in English so I "no can read/understand it."

Also, without reading through all the posts again, and assuming you are in Thailand, since you feel PayPal may be the source of the reduced exchange rate and it could very well be "Have you tried paying for a local purchase like in Lotus, Big C, etc., with your Mastercard and then seeing what exchange rate you get? That takes PayPal completely out of the loop. Now assuming Lotus, Big C., don't trick you into a DCC transaction which is highly unlikely at those stores, then any exchange rate difference between the Mastercard exchange rate page and the charge that posts to your account is your "card-issuing bank" applying a foreign transaction fee/commission.

By the way here's the a PayPal link taking about their currency conversion fee which is generally 2.5%, but actually if varies from about 1 to 2.5% depending on the currency-pair. Link

CapturePayPal.JPG

I never use my CC other than for online payments since I have cash available in Thailand.

As you say, foreign transaction are charged with 1.5% commission, since Paypal.be charges my credit card, and not a Chinese or US dealer, there is no foreign transaction.

There is no Paypal conversion fee, since I choose in the paypal account settings that all conversions are done by my credit card.

2015 03 16 NL Tarieflijst_tcm55-1420.pdf

[Anthony5]

If you go to the tariff list it clearly says CASH payments. Paypal is no cash payment.

If you would provide a weblink it would be very helpful. All I know is what the the bank's website said...the link/image I provided...it says a 1.5% commission as payment (a.k.a., a charge) or cash when the transaction is not in Euro...like in Baht.

You seem very reluctant to accept the possibility your card-issuing bank is charging a foreign transaction fee.

I had filed a complaint with my bank regarding the exchange rate difference. This afternoon I received and answer, since it isn't in English I can't post it here, but I will translate for everyone to know.

Dear Sir,

We have no explanation for the difference in exchange rate, and we also can not compensate you for it.

We apologize for the inconvenience and hope you can live with it.

If you have any further questions, don't hesitate to contact us again.

I assume the last line must have been made tongue in cheek.

So in short, they consider themselves above their own rules if it fits them.

My complaint to the national ombudsman for financial conflicts will be filed today.

This is the 7th time, from which 3 cases concerning this same bank, I file a complaint with the ombudsman, and each previous case has been ruled in my favor, but it seems that they don't want to learn..

[JimGant]

...then any exchange rate difference between the Mastercard exchange rate page and the charge that posts to your account is your "card-issuing bank" applying a foreign transaction fee/commission.

Or not applying its own fee, but passing on the normal 1% MasterCard foreign transaction fee. Some banks advertise "we charge no foreign transaction fee." Then, in the footnoted, unreadable print: "MasterCard charges a 1% foreign transaction fee, which is included in your charge."

Doing the math with your numbers, that difference sure looks like 1%, at least to the second decimal place. And, when it comes to FX, two decimal place accuracy is about all you'll get. From the MC website on FX:

Please note that due to possible rounding differences, the displayed rates may not precisely reflect the actual rate applied to the transaction amount when converting to the cardholder billing amount

Your bank may not be literally charging you 1% -- only passing on the MC charge. But, you'd think they could explain this to you, if, indeed, this is what's occurring.

We have no explanation for the difference in exchange rate.......

Sounds like crap to me......

[Jip99]

What a limp response from your bank !!

They might as well just say "Sorry, we don't have a clue what we are doing".

I tend to agree with Jim Gant's conclusion that it is not your bank adding a fee, but simply passing on another's cost - (unwittingly) hiding it in the exchange rate thus distorting the Mastercard daily rate.

[Anthony5]

...then any exchange rate difference between the Mastercard exchange rate page and the charge that posts to your account is your "card-issuing bank" applying a foreign transaction fee/commission.

Or not applying its own fee, but passing on the normal 1% MasterCard foreign transaction fee. Some banks advertise "we charge no foreign transaction fee." Then, in the footnoted, unreadable print: "MasterCard charges a 1% foreign transaction fee, which is included in your charge."

Doing the math with your numbers, that difference sure looks like 1%, at least to the second decimal place. And, when it comes to FX, two decimal place accuracy is about all you'll get. From the MC website on FX:

Do you have any link to a page of Mastercard which shows that footnote ?

[JimGant]

Do you have any link to a page of Mastercard which shows that footnote ?

Nope. I'm only going back in my memory files about the class action suit in the US over undisclosed foreign transaction fees. Now, in the US, such fees have to be disclosed, to include any passed-on network (Visa/MC) fees. Maybe in the "old world" such is not the case.

Agree with Pib -- go use you MC card in a local transaction. Then look at the results. How hard can that be?

[Pib]

Typically the Visa/Mastercard foriegn transaciton/currency conversion fee ranges from 0.15% to 1% (Visa) and 0.2 to 1% (Mastercard)...I read those charges at their sites before...what fee applies depends on the contract arrangement between Visa/Mastercard and the card-issuing bank. But for this discussion let's say it 1%. Visa/Mastercard pass this fee to the card-issuing bank vs the customer but then it's up to the bank if they absorb that fee or pass it along to the customer as a foreign transaction fee. Some credit/debit cards like many of the U.S. Capital One credit cards, Pentagon Federal Credit Union credit cards, Schwab debit card, etc., "absorb" the fee and do not pass the fee along---these are true no foreign transaction fee cards. Now if your card-issuing bank is say charging a 1.5% fee, they are basically passing along the Visa/Mastercard 1% fee and adding on 0.5% for pure profit.

And some banks may get tricky with their working about how the Visa/Mastercard fee is applied...like unless something has changed with Capital One and ING merged the Capital One Bank debit card, a Mastercard, which use to be a true no foreign transaction fee (completely absorbed the Mastercard fee which was around 0.2% in CapOne's case) started passing along the 0.2% fee while still advertising their card as a no foreign transaction fee but explaining there may be a small Mastercard exchange currency conversion fee but would not define the exact rate of the fee.

Below is the Visa page link/partial quote talking their fee...notice where it say Visa does not charge the customer....instead they pass the fee to the bank and it's up to the bank if they absorb or pass along that fee. I might look for the Mastercard page tonight that I saw before but I need to drive to Nakhon Pathom in a few minutes.

http://usa.visa.com/personal/card-benefits/travel/exchange-rates-faq.jsp

What is Visa's fee structure for international transactions?

Visa Inc. does not assess any fees to cardholders or merchants. Visa applies International Service Assessment (ISA) fees ranging from 0.15 to 1 percent to its financial institution partners for their use of the global payment system.

The fees are paid by financial institutions on transactions that require the use of our global infrastructure. Since Visa does not assess any fees to cardholders or merchants, we have no involvement in financial institution pricing to cardholders or merchants. If financial institutions or merchants decide to assess a foreign transaction fee to their customers, they are required to provide details to their cardholders and consumers.

As part of Visa's international functionality, Visa has offered international processing services to its financial institutions for more than twenty years. Over the years, Visa has become a symbol of international acceptance, and Visa views its global support services as paramount to providing its cardholders with superior value and benefits.