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Thai former PM Yingluck to face trial over rice scheme: court


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Posted

whistling.gif In my personal opinion I would accept not bringing her to trial if she would just go on television and tell the Thai people these points:

  • Look, I"'m not that intelligent anyhow, and even though I had my doubts about this Rice deal no one ever TOLD me it was a scam.
  • Anyhow, my brother told me to do it and I had to do what he told me.
  • And anyhow, I was just the Deputy Prime Minister , it was always my brother running the show anyhow.
  • So please don't send me to jail.

If she would say that I would forgive her.

Let's just call an admission of guilt on the grounds of "diminished capability" because she was not intelligent enough to know how she was being scammed by others.

She will never say any of those things because none of them are true. The rice scheme was meant to subsidise the price of rice for the farmers, the government were expected to lose money on it that's what subsidies are about. Look at the British NHS, makes the rice scheme losses look like a drop in the ocean. I'm sure there was corruption involving some people, but this is Thailand what do you expect?

The PM couldn't be expected to monitor every stage of the scheme, it would be a physical impossibility, she had to rely on other people. If they let her down then charge them instead. As yet, I don't think anyone else has been charged with anything which suggests to me that it's part of the plan to remove the Shinawatras from politics and nothing more. If it hadn't been the rice scheme they'd have trumped up some other charge.

She'll be there in court to fight the charges, she won't run, she has too much class and dignity for that, unlike most of her opponents. Good luck madam.

All good and well but the Britisch NHS is budgeted for and when its clear it will be more expensive more is allocated to that budget and other things are cut. They don't leave it out of the budget claiming it does not cost a thing so they can keep spending money on other stuff.

Seems a lot of people have absolutely no idea how things work. I would have been ok with this scheme if it had been budgeted for. Then it was a subsidy. However it was not and it was told that it would cost nothing or make money. Then its a scam if proven it costs money and is not taken into the national account.

Posted

They should be after her brother as well.

As allegedly he was only the golf caddy with friendly advise skyping-in into cabinet meetings, there doesn't seem to be a reason to go after him in relation to the RPPS. Also during the November, 2013 censure debate Ms. Yingluck clearly stated in parliament that she and only she was in charge of her cabinet and government.

Posted

I think we should have a poll - will she do a runner or not

Whatever the results of the poll, who will believe it rolleyes.gif

Posted (edited)

If there is anything that will guarantee no reconciliation it's taking YL to trail over this. It's vindictive and misguided.

I refuse to believe she profited from any of this or ever had any intention to profit from it...why would she...she already has enough money. I also will not believe she did anything with malicious intent and those are the only reasons she should be found guilty if either of those two can be proved beyond any doubt. She might be blamed for poor judgement, for being naive, for not listening or not acting fast enough or just not being very bright, but none of those are jail-able offenses. This is simply an out-of-control, rabid government out to get Thaksin anyway they can and if that means putting his sister in jail in lieu of him then that is what they will do.

The charge is negligence and not corruption. There are no evidence connecting her to corruption. If negligence was the charge, then there are a laundry list of past PMs that have schemes mired in corruption. The Thai Khen Khaeg which cost 1.49T B by Ahbisit, Chuan's Phuket land corruption and even Chavalit financial crisis debacle were result of negligence. The Supreme Court has the responsibility to accept the case and the verdict will tell if this is another purge attempt on the Shins or if proper due process of law was practiced, rule her not guilty.

Whatever anyone else did or didn't do isn't worth chicken shit. This case is about Yingluck and the way she managed her flagship rice financing scheme, to which she appointed herself chairperson.

She says on FB, or at least her ghost writers do, that she always acted honestly as PM.

Eric, do you believe that to be the case, that Yingluck always acted honestly, which means always told the truth too?

No it's not chicken shit. It's selective punishment. It's kangaroo court and a well laid out plan from the start to get rid of the Shin. I would also add double standard and bias courts. What will be fair will be the court verdict of not guilty or the corruption agencies pursue the other corruption filled schemes. Oh, by the way, I believe she acted honestly too. Of course you disagree and that's your prerogative. I have taken my stand.

'kangaroo court'? You probably mean the Supreme Court for Political Office Holders?

Anyway, interesting is your

"The Supreme Court has the responsibility to accept the case and the verdict will tell if this is another purge attempt on the Shins or if proper due process of law was practiced, rule her not guilty."

So, you already made up your mind. Luckily the Court will first give Ms. Yingluck a chance to provide information before ruling. Even Ms. Yingluck had her PR team write on her facebook page

"that she expected to be given a fair trial and a chance to give her side of the story in her defence of the charge of dereliction of duty in connection with the rice pledging scheme."

Would you deny her that chance?

Edited by rubl
Posted

Fantastic news but given Thai law and corruption she will probably get off with a slap on the wrist1

if it was Singapore....

Thailand is potentially a great country-son sad the Shinawatra family have controlled it for so longsad.png

  • Like 2
Posted

........Just freeze her bank accounts, pull her Passport, and kick her ass in the klong......Its the sub-prime ministers

that did all the bad deeds, She is simply a victim who lost control, and the little munkskins took advantage of an opportunity to screw the farmers out of money. I'd hate to see such a pretty lady end up in jail/ prison. Not a very

nice place for a lady. Put her under house arrest. and bar from any Government job for the rest of her life.

Yingluck isn't the victim of the corruption. She was responsible to make sure that it didn't happen since she was the chair of the National Rice Policy Committee.

So the head of the police should be put in jail as the police are still corrupt and the head of the army should be charged because people in the military are still corrupt, and the head of etc.... should also be put in jail......

They should go after those that were and proven to have undertaken corrupt action which they are, it is simply impossible for the head of huge state departments to take responsibility for corruption below them.

If they have proof YS was corrupt charge her, no problem. If they have proof she was aware of certain people being corrupt charge her for whatever law this breaches.

Bare in mind however that as an example the police are still horribly corrupt, shall we throw Somyot in jail? Bare in mind the military are hugely corrupt, should we throw the head of the army in jail...Good luck...

Corruption is rife through all state and private organizations, so you either have to punish them all, or you will be accused of cherry picking persons which is whats happening now.

Posted

She is being tried for neglecting corruption that occurred under a scheme she was in charge of. Which she is probably guilty.

But, not one case of corruption has been taken to court and proven! Why not?? For her to be guilty in a normal court then the corruption would already have to be proven.

Why is this country so backward?

That would have been a great post if you had stopped after the word "guilty" the first time you used it.

Where do you start in a case like this? The negligence and her failure to prevent the corruption in a program she was directly in charge of seems like a good place to begin.

Each of the other cases require individual proof of corruption, while the negligence case just requires the pattern to be provable. She was in charge not just for the benefit of the people who reaped profit at the expense of the country, and not just for the people who voted for PTP.(which is what she said)

Proving that a warehouse operator was corrupt would not be proof of the case against Yingluck. Proving the pattern of the losses is enough. Proving that officials in the program bought rice illegally imported doesn't prove the case against her... etc

Cut the head off the beast and then chop up the parts.

Of course the charge is not just about negligence to prevent corruption. The charge also includes negligence to prevent losses. Even Ms. Yingluck when still PM in late 2013 had her government admit to possibly 320 billion Baht loss, which is interesting for a 'self-financing' scheme.

Posted

The date of the first hearing is interesting.

As usual - speaking in riddles waiting for someone to bite!

If May 19th means nothing to you I am afraid that the entire topic may also be beyond you.

If it's not 1992 you're referring to then please give us uneducated souls a clue as to what your riddle means. Thanks.

Posted

........Just freeze her bank accounts, pull her Passport, and kick her ass in the klong......Its the sub-prime ministers

that did all the bad deeds, She is simply a victim who lost control, and the little munkskins took advantage of an opportunity to screw the farmers out of money. I'd hate to see such a pretty lady end up in jail/ prison. Not a very

nice place for a lady. Put her under house arrest. and bar from any Government job for the rest of her life.

Yingluck isn't the victim of the corruption. She was responsible to make sure that it didn't happen since she was the chair of the National Rice Policy Committee.

So the head of the police should be put in jail as the police are still corrupt and the head of the army should be charged because people in the military are still corrupt, and the head of etc.... should also be put in jail......

They should go after those that were and proven to have undertaken corrupt action which they are, it is simply impossible for the head of huge state departments to take responsibility for corruption below them.

If they have proof YS was corrupt charge her, no problem. If they have proof she was aware of certain people being corrupt charge her for whatever law this breaches.

Bare in mind however that as an example the police are still horribly corrupt, shall we throw Somyot in jail? Bare in mind the military are hugely corrupt, should we throw the head of the army in jail...Good luck...

Corruption is rife through all state and private organizations, so you either have to punish them all, or you will be accused of cherry picking persons which is whats happening now.

No, you have to punish the cases that can be proven.

Posted

........Just freeze her bank accounts, pull her Passport, and kick her ass in the klong......Its the sub-prime ministers

that did all the bad deeds, She is simply a victim who lost control, and the little munkskins took advantage of an opportunity to screw the farmers out of money. I'd hate to see such a pretty lady end up in jail/ prison. Not a very

nice place for a lady. Put her under house arrest. and bar from any Government job for the rest of her life.

Yingluck isn't the victim of the corruption. She was responsible to make sure that it didn't happen since she was the chair of the National Rice Policy Committee.

So the head of the police should be put in jail as the police are still corrupt and the head of the army should be charged because people in the military are still corrupt, and the head of etc.... should also be put in jail......

They should go after those that were and proven to have undertaken corrupt action which they are, it is simply impossible for the head of huge state departments to take responsibility for corruption below them.

If they have proof YS was corrupt charge her, no problem. If they have proof she was aware of certain people being corrupt charge her for whatever law this breaches.

Bare in mind however that as an example the police are still horribly corrupt, shall we throw Somyot in jail? Bare in mind the military are hugely corrupt, should we throw the head of the army in jail...Good luck...

Corruption is rife through all state and private organizations, so you either have to punish them all, or you will be accused of cherry picking persons which is whats happening now.

Interesting suggestion, but I fear that charging a few million people wouldn't be real practical.

Posted

........Just freeze her bank accounts, pull her Passport, and kick her ass in the klong......Its the sub-prime ministers

that did all the bad deeds, She is simply a victim who lost control, and the little munkskins took advantage of an opportunity to screw the farmers out of money. I'd hate to see such a pretty lady end up in jail/ prison. Not a very

nice place for a lady. Put her under house arrest. and bar from any Government job for the rest of her life.

Yingluck isn't the victim of the corruption. She was responsible to make sure that it didn't happen since she was the chair of the National Rice Policy Committee.

So the head of the police should be put in jail as the police are still corrupt and the head of the army should be charged because people in the military are still corrupt, and the head of etc.... should also be put in jail......

They should go after those that were and proven to have undertaken corrupt action which they are, it is simply impossible for the head of huge state departments to take responsibility for corruption below them.

If they have proof YS was corrupt charge her, no problem. If they have proof she was aware of certain people being corrupt charge her for whatever law this breaches.

Bare in mind however that as an example the police are still horribly corrupt, shall we throw Somyot in jail? Bare in mind the military are hugely corrupt, should we throw the head of the army in jail...Good luck...

Corruption is rife through all state and private organizations, so you either have to punish them all, or you will be accused of cherry picking persons which is whats happening now.

No, you have to punish the cases that can be proven.

Of course those that are proven but it would not take a sting of biblical proportions or huge levels of investigation to find corruption in any of these organizations, that is of course if they had the will to do it.....

Posted

The date of the first hearing is interesting.

As usual - speaking in riddles waiting for someone to bite!
If May 19th means nothing to you I am afraid that the entire topic may also be beyond you.

If it's not 1992 you're referring to then please give us uneducated souls a clue as to what your riddle means. Thanks.

Gads....

Use this boolean in Google

may 19th 2010 Thailand news

Posted

Interesting suggestion, but I fear that charging a few million people wouldn't be real practical.

Of course its not practical, so you are basically admitting its selective enforcement?

Posted (edited)

I think we should have a poll - will she do a runner or not

I think big brother has asked her not to as it will disgrace the family... cheesy.gif

Edited by Basil B
Posted

But Thaksin is loathed by much of the country's royalist elite, which is backed by parts of the military and judiciary.

The above line destroys everything TVF Yellows wrongly believe in and exposes the foolhardiness of them all.

The ELITES, the MILITARY and the JUDICIARY are working in cahoots to deny democracy - that is the whole situation summed up.

Posted (edited)

The military government seems intent on making the deposed PM a martyr.

Dragging out the persecution or prosecution, depending upon's one view, will keep her name in the news and build sympathy for her.

No good will come of this. It is a recipe for civil disorder and will undermine the current military rulers' position. The courts are not seen as impartial, nor free of political interference from the military regime. A conviction, which appears to be preordained, will be treated accordingly. I genuinely fear the consequences of this as I believe that the majority of Thais will not support it. Despite what many foreigners assume about Thai people, they still have a soft spot for her.

"The military government seems intent on making the deposed PM a martyr."

Well off the mark...

They want to prove to people just how corrupt the Shinawatra clan is.

This is true in part ...but you do not think this crack down on corruption is not being performed to divert the attention onto others while their own corrupt practices are over looked while they make themselves look like heroes while they are policing the corruption......but meantime..... who is policing them and or forcing the laws against corruption and malfeasance upon them.

Edited by gemguy
Posted

whistling.gif In my personal opinion I would accept not bringing her to trial if she would just go on television and tell the Thai people these points:

  • Look, I"'m not that intelligent anyhow, and even though I had my doubts about this Rice deal no one ever TOLD me it was a scam.
  • Anyhow, my brother told me to do it and I had to do what he told me.
  • And anyhow, I was just the Deputy Prime Minister , it was always my brother running the show anyhow.
  • So please don't send me to jail.

If she would say that I would forgive her.

Let's just call an admission of guilt on the grounds of "diminished capability" because she was not intelligent enough to know how she was being scammed by others.

This kind of crap really should not be allowed it's juvenile and pathetic.

Posted (edited)

The military government seems intent on making the deposed PM a martyr.

Dragging out the persecution or prosecution, depending upon's one view, will keep her name in the news and build sympathy for her.

No good will come of this. It is a recipe for civil disorder and will undermine the current military rulers' position. The courts are not seen as impartial, nor free of political interference from the military regime. A conviction, which appears to be preordained, will be treated accordingly. I genuinely fear the consequences of this as I believe that the majority of Thais will not support it. Despite what many foreigners assume about Thai people, they still have a soft spot for her.

If any Thai people still have a soft spot for her, it must be in the cranial region.
Well I think there are quite a few farang with a hard on for her. Edited by longway
Posted

whistling.gif In my personal opinion I would accept not bringing her to trial if she would just go on television and tell the Thai people these points:

  • Look, I"'m not that intelligent anyhow, and even though I had my doubts about this Rice deal no one ever TOLD me it was a scam.
  • Anyhow, my brother told me to do it and I had to do what he told me.
  • And anyhow, I was just the Deputy Prime Minister , it was always my brother running the show anyhow.
  • So please don't send me to jail.
If she would say that I would forgive her.

Let's just call an admission of guilt on the grounds of "diminished capability" because she was not intelligent enough to know how she was being scammed by others.

This kind of crap really should not be allowed it's juvenile and pathetic.

And really her only chance...

Posted
........Just freeze her bank accounts, pull her Passport, and kick her ass in the klong......Its the sub-prime ministers

that did all the bad deeds, She is simply a victim who lost control, and the little munkskins took advantage of an opportunity to screw the farmers out of money. I'd hate to see such a pretty lady end up in jail/ prison. Not a very

nice place for a lady. Put her under house arrest. and bar from any Government job for the rest of her life.

Yingluck isn't the victim of the corruption. She was responsible to make sure that it didn't happen since she was the chair of the National Rice Policy Committee.

So the head of the police should be put in jail as the police are still corrupt and the head of the army should be charged because people in the military are still corrupt, and the head of etc.... should also be put in jail......

They should go after those that were and proven to have undertaken corrupt action which they are, it is simply impossible for the head of huge state departments to take responsibility for corruption below them.

If they have proof YS was corrupt charge her, no problem. If they have proof she was aware of certain people being corrupt charge her for whatever law this breaches.

Bare in mind however that as an example the police are still horribly corrupt, shall we throw Somyot in jail? Bare in mind the military are hugely corrupt, should we throw the head of the army in jail...Good luck...

Corruption is rife through all state and private organizations, so you either have to punish them all, or you will be accused of cherry picking persons which is whats happening now.

No, you have to punish the cases that can be proven.

Of course those that are proven but it would not take a sting of biblical proportions or huge levels of investigation to find corruption in any of these organizations, that is of course if they had the will to do it.....

Let's see how things progress. Top cops have already been taken down...

The case at hand now is one that has been on the international radar for a few years. It plays into both the need to address corruption as well as reform.

House cleaning always takes time

Posted (edited)

The charge should be worded: Negligence to prevent the corruption of rice industry workers, government officials, police officers, military personnel, and politicians. That should cover the current case. Clearly the responsibility of the PM.

Also should add the following charges: Negligence to not operate the government at a budget surplus (the UN's should look into this kind of law too), implementing government programs that may cause a net loss, not causing the stock market increase enough, allowing the baht to devalue, allowing real estate property values to fall, allowing high unemployment levels, allowing to much disparity in wealth and not preventing the war in the south. Seems reasonable, right?

When will the Thai courts understand, you can never prove a negative (basic law). You have to prove an action was criminal…you can never have enough definitive proof for a non action and how it relates to a crime.

Edited by dukebowling
Posted

The charge should be worded: Negligence to prevent the corruption of rice industry workers, government officials, police officers, military personnel, and politicians. That should cover the current case. Clearly the responsibility of the PM.

Also should add the following charges: Negligence to not operate the government at a budget surplus (the UN's should look into this kind of law too), implementing government programs that may cause a net loss, not causing the stock market increase enough, allowing the baht to devalue, allowing real estate property values to fall, allowing high unemployment levels, allowing to much disparity in wealth and not preventing the war in the south. Seems reasonable, right?

When will the Thai courts understand, you can never prove a negative (basic law). You have to prove an action was criminal…you can never have enough definitive proof for a non action and how it relates to a crime.

Negligence is provable.

Posted
........Just freeze her bank accounts, pull her Passport, and kick her ass in the klong......Its the sub-prime ministers

that did all the bad deeds, She is simply a victim who lost control, and the little munkskins took advantage of an opportunity to screw the farmers out of money. I'd hate to see such a pretty lady end up in jail/ prison. Not a very

nice place for a lady. Put her under house arrest. and bar from any Government job for the rest of her life.

Yingluck isn't the victim of the corruption. She was responsible to make sure that it didn't happen since she was the chair of the National Rice Policy Committee.

So the head of the police should be put in jail as the police are still corrupt and the head of the army should be charged because people in the military are still corrupt, and the head of etc.... should also be put in jail......

They should go after those that were and proven to have undertaken corrupt action which they are, it is simply impossible for the head of huge state departments to take responsibility for corruption below them.

If they have proof YS was corrupt charge her, no problem. If they have proof she was aware of certain people being corrupt charge her for whatever law this breaches.

Bare in mind however that as an example the police are still horribly corrupt, shall we throw Somyot in jail? Bare in mind the military are hugely corrupt, should we throw the head of the army in jail...Good luck...

Corruption is rife through all state and private organizations, so you either have to punish them all, or you will be accused of cherry picking persons which is whats happening now.

No, you have to punish the cases that can be proven.

Of course those that are proven but it would not take a sting of biblical proportions or huge levels of investigation to find corruption in any of these organizations, that is of course if they had the will to do it.....

Let's see how things progress. Top cops have already been taken down...

The case at hand now is one that has been on the international radar for a few years. It plays into both the need to address corruption as well as reform.

House cleaning always takes time

JD, you and I both know the taking down of the top cop and his colleagues was far more than just a clearing house exercise. Obviously good, but questionable whether this is genuine clearing house, or different purposes.

From living here, working here, and driving a lot here, i have been stopped more and 'fined' in the last year than anytime before, this may just be coincidence, but it is clear that certain aspects of corruption have definitely not abated at all.

As you say, time will tell.

Posted
........Just freeze her bank accounts, pull her Passport, and kick her ass in the klong......Its the sub-prime ministers

that did all the bad deeds, She is simply a victim who lost control, and the little munkskins took advantage of an opportunity to screw the farmers out of money. I'd hate to see such a pretty lady end up in jail/ prison. Not a very

nice place for a lady. Put her under house arrest. and bar from any Government job for the rest of her life.

Yingluck isn't the victim of the corruption. She was responsible to make sure that it didn't happen since she was the chair of the National Rice Policy Committee.

So the head of the police should be put in jail as the police are still corrupt and the head of the army should be charged because people in the military are still corrupt, and the head of etc.... should also be put in jail......

They should go after those that were and proven to have undertaken corrupt action which they are, it is simply impossible for the head of huge state departments to take responsibility for corruption below them.

If they have proof YS was corrupt charge her, no problem. If they have proof she was aware of certain people being corrupt charge her for whatever law this breaches.

Bare in mind however that as an example the police are still horribly corrupt, shall we throw Somyot in jail? Bare in mind the military are hugely corrupt, should we throw the head of the army in jail...Good luck...

Corruption is rife through all state and private organizations, so you either have to punish them all, or you will be accused of cherry picking persons which is whats happening now.

No, you have to punish the cases that can be proven.

Of course those that are proven but it would not take a sting of biblical proportions or huge levels of investigation to find corruption in any of these organizations, that is of course if they had the will to do it.....

Let's see how things progress. Top cops have already been taken down...

The case at hand now is one that has been on the international radar for a few years. It plays into both the need to address corruption as well as reform.

House cleaning always takes time

Rice subsidies cost the country 682B Baht loss in the last 10 years and 4 governments. All mired and accused of corruption. House cleaning just started and it's selective targeting for a political agenda.

Posted (edited)
... ...
Corruption is rife through all state and private organizations, so you either have to punish them all, or you will be accused of cherry picking persons which is whats happening now.

Interesting suggestion, but I fear that charging a few million people wouldn't be real practical.

Of course its not practical, so you are basically admitting its selective enforcement?

'admit'? Why would I need to admit? Also if you agree it's impractical why do you suggest it?

Anyway, one needs to start somewhere and to start with the top which planned and directed makes sense. In parallel a campaign should be started to make people understand corruption is unacceptable, costing the country, holding her back.

It's like in other countries where the government uses strict law enforcement combined with media clips to 'guide' a society. Having been indoctrinated in the Netherlands I would still feel guilty and asocial when driving through Bangkok with a speed above 50km/h.

Edited by rubl
  • Like 1
Posted

What a crummy OP report by AFP.

The report makes it sound like the whole issue was over the former Thai government deciding to pay farmers double the prevailing price for their rice, and whether YL should be found negligent for that.

That's not really what it was about. Try instead, a plot to gain political favor among farmers at the public's expense while also, according to the charges in other cases, concocting various fake government to government deals and other schemes to enrich various influentials and connected officials, while also later re-selling the supposedly exported rice here inside Thailand for illegal profits.

  • Like 2
Posted

The date of the first hearing is interesting.

As usual - speaking in riddles waiting for someone to bite!
If May 19th means nothing to you I am afraid that the entire topic may also be beyond you.

The 26 th May would have been much worse.

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