Living in Thailand and leaving a will/money/assets........?

[craigp]

Hi TV,

I wasn't sure what forum to post this in, but as I'm residing in Thailand I'll post it here. I'm sure a mod will move it if I'm wrong.

Just wondering, should I die from health issues or an accident in Thailand, I would like my wife (I'm on an extension due to marriage) and my son in the UK to have 50/50 of my money and assets.

All my money and assets are in Thailand now.

How should I go about this?

Just go to a Thai solicitor and get them to do make some kind of document?

Would my wife have automatic access to my assets and bank account without this? (Not that I would mind that, I just want to do things correctly for the sake of spitting what I have with my son who lives in the UK)

No idea how this would work in Thailand so I think it's a good question to ask and not a question I've seen mentioned in TV before.

Thanks for any advice in advance.

[Luke06]

I am not a lawyer nor have any legal training, however from my understanding and cases I have been involved in, for security you must have a Thai will set up, registered and witnessed much better still to have it certified by your embassy, without that - and your assets here - your kid has got very little chance of claiming anything and your Thai wife has right to all your assets.

Also, I would urge any ex-pat/immigrant (apparently that's become an issue) to do this especially if they have family overseas, as there are a lot of arguments that occur between 'new' and 'old' family, and nobody knows the true intentions without that (registered in both/all locations) - so it often depends upon where your assets are and who is the fastest to claim with your death certificate. Genuinely I have known and seen situations that the deceased individuals involved no doubt would have been grievously upset by...of course those could have been deliberate..

Edited March 20, 2015 by Luke06

[Luke06]

Sorry, just noted the thread pinned at the top of the page - I am sure it is far better than my advice:

The Importance Of Preparing A Will In Thailand

[Ballbearing]

craigp,

I am in a similar situation.

I have assets in NZ and Australia that I would want jointly shared with my Thai wife and kiwi daughters.

I have joint assets with my wife in Thailand that I would want going to my Thai wife.

She is investigating wills as she does not want her family getting anything (long story) if anything happens to her.

Basically, just need a document (can do yourself or have a solicitor draw up) that has been registered with relevant Govt department.

We will have one in English and one in Thai and I will probably get the English one signed/stamped by the NZ embassy.

That way she is covered if something happens to me and I am covered if something happens to her.

If you find out anymore please post,

Cheers,

BB

Edit: Where is the link to thread you mentioned Luke ?

Edited March 21, 2015 by Ballbearing

[TerrylSky]

I asked my lawyer and he's doing a legal, binding will for me for 3,000 baht. Rather simple endeavor as long as you've got a forthright attorney I'd imagine.

[BlackJack]

Making a Will is the easy part

I did a presentation at a club in Pattaya

its online and has a lot of info about the role of the Executor

Its worth a look as it points out some of the issues your Will could face during probate

I am a bit worried to post the link as it may be considered spam

[khunPer]

You will need a Thai Will for your Thai assets.

Making a Will is very easy, according to the book “Thai Law for Foreigners” written by two Thai lawyers, Benjawan Poomsan Becker and Roengsak Thongkaew (PaiboonPublishing.com).

You can write a Will in English – for example use a prewritten form available from the Internet – and sign it in presence of two witnesses that also sign. That will be a legal will, called A Regular Will.

You can also make A Civil Documented Will by going “to the district office (amphur) together with two witnesses and make a request to an official to write a will. The government will record the intent of the testator then read it back for verification. The testator signs the will and the witnesses then sign the document attesting its autencity. The official then sign and dates the will and adds a stamp or seal as evidence. The testator may sign to receive the will that has been recorded, or it can be left on file at the district office.” (sic.)

If you make a regular will, my personal advice will be to have full name and address of the two witnesses, and a signed copy of ID or passport attached.

After Thai law, if there is no will and you are ”survived by spouse and children, the spouse received fifty percent and the children receive fifty percent of the assets divided equally between the children... (sic.)

The mentioned and quoted book talks about Last Will and dying in Thailand on pages 77 to 86.

To my knowledge all bank accounts will be frozen upon registration of death, and may remain frozen until the case has been settles by the Court, which can take some time, perhaps a year or more. If you wish you wife to have instant access to some fund, a shared bank account with two names may be a possibility; I use that and have stated in my Regular Thai-will, that all funds in shared accounts belongs to the other named account owner.

Using a lawyer may be a help to get things done in correct order, but based on information in the mentioned book and other posts in ThaiVisa, it seems like a fairly simple procedure.

Hope this will be of help...

Edited March 21, 2015 by khunPer

[MaeJoMTB]

In Thailand assets are split 50/50 between spouse and children.

No point in a will if this is what you want.

When you die it would be illegal for anyone to access your bank account before probate.

Same as every other country in the world.

You can give her money before you die, when you're dead you can't.

[BlackJack]

You will need a Thai Will for your Thai assets.

Making a Will is very easy, according to the book “Thai Law for Foreigners” written by two Thai lawyers, Benjawan Poomsan Becker and Roengsak Thongkaew (PaiboonPublishing.com).

You can write a Will in English – for example use a prewritten form available from the Internet – and sign it in presence of two witnesses that also sign. That will be a legal will, called A Regular Will.

You can also make A Civil Documented Will by going “to the district office (amphur) together with two witnesses and make a request to an official to write a will. The government will record the intent of the testator then read it back for verification. The testator signs the will and the witnesses then sign the document attesting its autencity. The official then sign and dates the will and adds a stamp or seal as evidence. The testator may sign to receive the will that has been recorded, or it can be left on file at the district office.” (sic.)

If you make a regular will, my personal advice will be to have full name and address of the two witnesses, and a signed copy of ID or passport attached.

After Thai law, if there is no will and you are ”survived by spouse and children, the spouse received fifty percent and the children receive fifty percent of the assets divided equally between the children... (sic.)

The mentioned and quoted book talks about Last Will and dying in Thailand on pages 77 to 86.

To my knowledge all bank accounts will be frozen upon registration of death, and may remain frozen until the case has been settles by the Court, which can take some time, perhaps a year or more. If you wish you wife to have instant access to some fund, a shared bank account with two names may be a possibility; I use that and have stated in my Regular Thai-will, that all funds in shared accounts belongs to the other named account owner.

Using a lawyer may be a help to get things done in correct order, but based on information in the mentioned book and other posts in ThaiVisa, it seems like a fairly simple procedure.

Hope this will be of help...

Sorry as some parts are not correct

All the paperwork needs to go to court

it has to be in Thai ie translated

When you apply to the courts its about 3 months to get a hearing (as of now)

The court then looks at the paperwork and the Executor swears an oath

The court then allows another month for any challenges to the Executor

If all is OK then probate can begin

Bank accounts are not frozen as the banks dont know the person has died

Accounts can be accessed as the funeral and related expenses have to be paid for

The Executor has 1 year to wrap things up

If property is involved and the beneficiary is a non resident or no visa then the property is usually sold within 12 months

If there is no Will then the succession laws kick in and there are blood heirs and by marriage.

There are classes 1 and 2 heirs

There are several types of Will.

Its easier and cheaper to get a Lawyer that speaks reads and writes English.

The Executor has lots of work to do and if it involves overseas or local assets or issues DO NOT name you GF, Thai wife or best bar stool drinking friend as Executor as they will not know where to begin. In my experience they normally resign.

[ToddinChonburi]

Contact Allison Monkhouse Funeral services they specialize in this and work with a law office to take care of all your wishes.

[SantiSuk]

If you care about your Thai wife and family, make sure you have a Thai bank account (a good deposit account will do the trick, even if she will surrender interest by drawing it down after your death) that has sufficient money in it to provide for your wife and family for a few months and which is jointly held.* I understand that It should not take a few months for her to prove probate here in Thailand, but better to be on the safe side. If accessible money and assets are in your home country either check out the likely timings of probate (the process of establishing who has the right to gather in assets and distribute either in accordance with a will or in accordance with applicable law in the case of no will)

Either that or make sure that your wife is personally fully funded for that kind of interruption (apologies for calling your death an interruption!).

Of course you have to trust your wife with joint signing. Many of us do despite the welter of cynicism that abounds on ThaiV. Some might want to keep an eye on said account by making it an online account. Of course you also have to balance this with your opinions about the security of Thai banking/economic systems. Many of us do trust the Thai banking system despite the welter of cynicism that abounds on ThaiV. Good to see you are one of us!

* I believe that the position is the same here as in my own country - a joint account survives with the surviving spouse taking over the account (which does not get caught in the estate handling process at all). Check with your (or any) Thai bank when surveying appropriate accounts.

[meatboy]

i have had wills drawn up in the uk as well as thailand.if you want part of your estate to go to your son in the uk.you get one drawn up in the uk.you have a copy in english for him and have it translated in thai for your wife.

then as you want your wife to recieve 50% as well, you get one drawn up in thailand with a copy going to your son translated to english.

make sure you stipulate on both english/thai wills that you have made one in your own country as well as thailand.

funnerals in thailand are money making,where all the family and relatives come out of the woodwork to get what they can.

so tell your wife she and nobody else are to collect the ENVELOPES.

Edited March 22, 2015 by meatboy

[BlackJack]

If you care about your Thai wife and family, make sure you have a Thai bank account (a good deposit account will do the trick, even if she will surrender interest by drawing it down after your death) that has sufficient money in it to provide for your wife and family for a few months and which is jointly held.* I understand that It should not take a few months for her to prove probate here in Thailand, but better to be on the safe side. If accessible money and assets are in your home country either check out the likely timings of probate (the process of establishing who has the right to gather in assets and distribute either in accordance with a will or in accordance with applicable law in the case of no will)

Either that or make sure that your wife is personally fully funded for that kind of interruption (apologies for calling your death an interruption!).

Of course you have to trust your wife with joint signing. Many of us do despite the welter of cynicism that abounds on ThaiV. Some might want to keep an eye on said account by making it an online account. Of course you also have to balance this with your opinions about the security of Thai banking/economic systems. Many of us do trust the Thai banking system despite the welter of cynicism that abounds on ThaiV. Good to see you are one of us!

* I believe that the position is the same here as in my own country - a joint account survives with the surviving spouse taking over the account (which does not get caught in the estate handling process at all). Check with your (or any) Thai bank when surveying appropriate accounts.

sorry but your post is wrong

the current application to the court for approving the Executor is 3 months wait - the courts are busy and handle many types of hearing i the same court.

last time I was there I had guys sitting next to me in chains

then another month for challenges

if theres no Will or assets / kids overseas then it could be longer

it is not an automatic right of the wife to be the beneficiary - if kids are involved or O/S kids and assets are involved -

In case of the joint account - have 100K in there and keep it there so if something happens you wifey can access it.

In some cases it is possible to loan the money to tide the beneficiary over and then claim it from the Estate.

As an example a Thai wife's husband died, he had assets in UK, Sth Africa and Thailand. The Executors are in the UK. ALL assets have to be consolidated and if necessary sold off before any disbursements can happen. It has been 8 months already and still not finalised. In fact far from it.

When the Testator makes 50% for one part of the family and 50% for the Thai partner then think about it - how is it going to be disbursed?

Its easy to write a Will but how can the Executor carve up 50 50 % of say someones house that they are living in?

[BlackJack]

i have had wills drawn up in the uk as well as thailand.if you want part of your estate to go to your son in the uk.you get one drawn up in the uk.you have a copy in english for him and have it translated in thai for your wife.

then as you want your wife to recieve 50% as well, you get one drawn up in thailand with a copy going to your son translated to english.

make sure you stipulate on both english/thai wills that you have made one in your own country as well as thailand.

funnerals in thailand are money making,where all the family and relatives come out of the woodwork to get what they can.

so tell your wife she and nobody else are to collect the ENVELOPES.

see other post about carving up the assets

see section 19 of the Condo Act in case you are thinking of leaving a condo to someone living outside of Thailand

PLUS UK law on death duties

ohhhhhhhhhh headache

[NancyL]

I'm sorry, but you can't count on Thai bank accounts not being frozen when a foreigner dies. Every case I've been involved with, the bank personnel know. You may think you're invisible, but the jungle drums kick in quickly when a foreigner dies.

A joint account will be frozen and the other person won't have access, even for funeral expenses -- even if there is a Final Will. The bank wants to be sure everything is "proper" before they release the funds. That can take some time.

If you really love your heirs, be sure they have access to their own source of funds or some gold to sell to use for your funeral and their living expenses while they sort out your Final Will.

I've been involved in assisting several widows who had big problems after the death of their husband because he'd failed to make this simple provision.

Don't believe what your bank tells you. In one case, a man with terminal cancer thought he had everything set up properly. The bank said "no problem" for his 800,000 baht account to be used for funeral expenses because he had a Final Will. What they neglected to tell him is that when an account is over 100,000 baht, the paperwork has to go down to Bangkok for OK, which meant that his heirs wouldn't have access to the funds for at least three weeks after applying to get the money. Sure, no problem, it was just a formality, but no funeral is conducted three weeks after death.

Edited March 22, 2015 by NancyL

[meatboy]

i have had wills drawn up in the uk as well as thailand.if you want part of your estate to go to your son in the uk.you get one drawn up in the uk.you have a copy in english for him and have it translated in thai for your wife.

then as you want your wife to recieve 50% as well, you get one drawn up in thailand with a copy going to your son translated to english.

make sure you stipulate on both english/thai wills that you have made one in your own country as well as thailand.

funnerals in thailand are money making,where all the family and relatives come out of the woodwork to get what they can.

so tell your wife she and nobody else are to collect the ENVELOPES.

see other post about carving up the assets

see section 19 of the Condo Act in case you are thinking of leaving a condo to someone living outside of Thailand

PLUS UK law on death duties

ohhhhhhhhhh headache

what i got in the uk.stays there and the same here.i have seen the bickering that goes on if you want to call it that.

so put it in black and white from the start.

then if your extended family want to fight so be it.no need for you to worry.

[BlackJack]

from my experience the Thai side doesnt have a chance against the bureaucracy from another country

the Testator makes the headaches for the Beneficiaries by stating things like 50% of he assets belong to this party etc.

Really?

Sit down and pretend that you are the Executor of the Will then try and work out how you are going to divide the assets instead of letting them fight it out when you are gone.

People mean well but just because your dead theres no need to worry?

fail to plan

plan to fail

[Jip99]

i have had wills drawn up in the uk as well as thailand.if you want part of your estate to go to your son in the uk.you get one drawn up in the uk.you have a copy in english for him and have it translated in thai for your wife.

then as you want your wife to recieve 50% as well, you get one drawn up in thailand with a copy going to your son translated to english.

make sure you stipulate on both english/thai wills that you have made one in your own country as well as thailand.

funnerals in thailand are money making,where all the family and relatives come out of the woodwork to get what they can.

so tell your wife she and nobody else are to collect the ENVELOPES.

see other post about carving up the assets

see section 19 of the Condo Act in case you are thinking of leaving a condo to someone living outside of Thailand

PLUS UK law on death duties

ohhhhhhhhhh headache

what i got in the uk.stays there and the same here.i have seen the bickering that goes on if you want to call it that.

so put it in black and white from the start.

then if your extended family want to fight so be it.no need for you to worry.

I presume that you have taken due account of Inheritance (Provision for Family and Dependants) Act 1975 ?

I guess that you have also taken care to cross-reference the Wills and ensure that one Will does not negate the other. You can, obviously, only have one last Will and testament if you have revoked all others.

[Ballbearing]

I have a fair chunk of money in Australian Superannuation with my Thai wife and daughters nominated as recipients.

My wife and I have quite significant joint assets here in Thailand.

I thought I read previously if someone dies in Thailand without a will it goes 50% to spouse and 50% to children.

Would we actually need to have a will if my Australian money has recipients noted and we are both happy with a 50/50 split if something happened to either of us ?

Cheers,

BB

[BlackJack]

True. That's why you should never say worldly assets revoke of have wills that cause international issue for the executor to sort out

[BlackJack]

Also there are different laws for succession and these should be duly noted

[BlackJack]

I have a fair chunk of money in Australian Superannuation with my Thai wife and daughters nominated as recipients.

My wife and I have quite significant joint assets here in Thailand.

I thought I read previously if someone dies in Thailand without a will it goes 50% to spouse and 50% to children.

Would we actually need to have a will if my Australian money has recipients noted and we are both happy with a 50/50 split if something happened to either of us ?

Cheers,

BB

Matey

spend 5000 baht and get a Will done properly

then no hassle

Dying intestate in Thailand

have you had your marriage legally sanctioned?

as there are 2 kinds of heirs - blood and by marriage

blood heirs are children, parents, brothers sisters, half brothers and sisters, grand parents, uncles and aunts

If your kids are under 20 - they need to wait until they are of age to inherit the assets

If you have house and land with your wife then you need to look at this carefully.

Suggest you separate the Wills and have one for Australia and one for Thailand.

It has been known for families in Australia to challenge the Will when they find out money is going to Thailand.

No point in getting the Supreme courts involved because of some disgruntled relative.

You sound like you have worked hard to accumulate these assets and so why not spend a little time in getting a Will done?

Its not bad luck its just prudent to plan.

[khunPer]

It’s a very interesting and important subject, and thanks for many good inputs.

When it comes to Will here in Thailand and abroad, usually ones home country, I think it is important to stipulate, as Jip99 says in #18, that there is more than one Will and what the present Will covers – i.e. in the Will abroad that it does not cover assets in Thailand, which are under Thai Law, and that there is a Thai Will to cover that; and in the Thai Will that it only covers the assets in Thailand, and there is another Will abroad to cover any assets there.

I for example wrote that I would make a Thai Will my home country Will, and that the home country Will shall not cover any assets in Thailand – however stipulated for reference only the general intention of Thai Will – and same in my Will here that it only covers assets in Thailand, and that there is another Will in my home country covering only the foreign assets.

According to the book, “Thai Law for Foreigners”, I quoted in my earlier post, and in reply to BlackJacks post #9, the two Thai lawyers says on page 78 that you can write a Will in your native language:

“Foreigners should definitely have a written will. It can be a simple document written in either Thai or your native language or both.

Authenticated will that have been written outside of Thailand may be accepted in Thai courts, but must be translated into Thai. Under Thai Law, probate (the process of disposing of the deceased’s estate) and trusts do not exist. You may want to make a will to distribute your material goods in each country in which you have assets. In this case, each will needs to address the assets you have in that country only.” (sic.)

The authors also mentions:

“In Thailand, it is very common to have an executor who manages the assets of the deceased and the distributes them among the heirs...

...An executor is either named by the testator or assigned by the court...

...Because the court will consider the qualifications of the executor to manage the assets of your estate, it is not necessary for the heirs to approve the executor.” (sic.)

And not to forget their recommendations:
”Although making a will is a simple process, we suggest that you use a lawyer to assist you in drafting and execute your will in order to ensure that it complies with Thai law...”

And:

“You should also inform appropriate people that you have a will and where it is located. If it is not known that you have a will, nobody will be able to execute your wishes.” (sic.)

I can easily imagine complications and delays, if some heirs are foreigners living abroad, like OP mentioned, or complicated relations in Thailand with property or jointly owned property. I presume it’s best to stipulate as detailed as possible, yet still simple, what your intentions are; and if necessary, due to changes in assets or property, recall and update the Will.

Thank NancyL for her info in post #15. My GF talked about that, when a school classmate to our daughter lost the father, an Australian, in a traffic accident. My GF said, that in such a case it’s important for the spouse to quickly take out enough or all cash from shared accounts for the upcoming expenses and some livings costs for the family – in this case a mum left with two school kids, where I had a feeling that there were not much support from the Australian part of the family – before the bank block the account. I presume that using shared account with two names and the spouse immediately moving the funds out, may be a way – and eventually stipulate in the Will that all funds in shared account shall belong to the other named account holder, so no problems later will arise – but of course agree in, that it is best a spouse has access to (some) own funds.

[BlackJack]

there are several ways to make a Will

lets be clear on that

Thailand does not call it probate but thats what it is in English terms

The Executor and the Will have to go to court - theres no getting around that part

If it goes to court it needs to be translated first

I have done this many times

and seen the errors in people using their western idea's in a Thai court

Make it simple and separate the Wills

Say Thai assets only

or USA assets only

or UK assets only

DONT name your best friend or someone living overseas as the Executor unless they are looking after the assets overseas. ie the Executors is looking after the UK Will and assets and beneficiaries and visa versa for Thailand.

As I SAID before a Thai Wife as an Executor cannot navigate the bureaucracy of the UK or the USA or EU system. And visa versa for a foreigner Executor coming here to navigate the Thai courts

[brewsterbudgen]

Is it better to appoint a lawyer (or firm of lawyers) to act as Executor for Thai will?

[Anon999]

i have had wills drawn up in the uk as well as thailand.if you want part of your estate to go to your son in the uk.you get one drawn up in the uk.you have a copy in english for him and have it translated in thai for your wife.

then as you want your wife to recieve 50% as well, you get one drawn up in thailand with a copy going to your son translated to english.

make sure you stipulate on both english/thai wills that you have made one in your own country as well as thailand.

funnerals in thailand are money making,where all the family and relatives come out of the woodwork to get what they can.

so tell your wife she and nobody else are to collect the ENVELOPES.

see other post about carving up the assets

see section 19 of the Condo Act in case you are thinking of leaving a condo to someone living outside of Thailand

PLUS UK law on death duties

ohhhhhhhhhh headache

what i got in the uk.stays there and the same here.i have seen the bickering that goes on if you want to call it that.

so put it in black and white from the start.

then if your extended family want to fight so be it.no need for you to worry.

I presume that you have taken due account of Inheritance (Provision for Family and Dependants) Act 1975 ?

I guess that you have also taken care to cross-reference the Wills and ensure that one Will does not negate the other. You can, obviously, only have one last Will and testament if you have revoked all others.

I have two Wills one in the UK with the UK executors that takes care of all my assets there and cross refers that it is not negated by my Thai Will or vice versa. A copy of it is kept with my UK Will writer. There is also a Thai Will that looks after my assets in Thailand and that is written in English and Thai on a paragraph by paragraph basis. It also cross refers to my English Will with the same reference about not negating it. As my wife is the main beneficial with only a small bequest to one other person she has a copy of the Will. The main assets are the house, land and bank accounts. As she has her own income and bank accounts there is no problem with my accounts being frozen.

[craigp]

I have nothing in the UK. All my assets and money are now in Thailand. That is why I've asked this question.

[BlackJack]

Is it better to appoint a lawyer (or firm of lawyers) to act as Executor for Thai will?

In my experience every single Executor has resigned when they realise what is involved

and so the answer to your question is yes have a Lawyer do it as they are bound by the Law to carry out the wishes of the Testator.

Also they have experience and know what to do.

The obvious question is how much will it cost?

The answer is how complex is your estate?

Without being a SA I say to people

How long is a piece of string?

They say how should I know?

The answer is that it is as long as it needs to be.

Its the same as the legal fees, they are as much as they need to be.

No more and no less,

as they want return business

Edited March 24, 2015 by BlackJack

[Ballbearing]

I have a fair chunk of money in Australian Superannuation with my Thai wife and daughters nominated as recipients.

My wife and I have quite significant joint assets here in Thailand.

I thought I read previously if someone dies in Thailand without a will it goes 50% to spouse and 50% to children.

Would we actually need to have a will if my Australian money has recipients noted and we are both happy with a 50/50 split if something happened to either of us ?

Cheers,

BB

Matey

spend 5000 baht and get a Will done properly

then no hassle

Dying intestate in Thailand

have you had your marriage legally sanctioned?

as there are 2 kinds of heirs - blood and by marriage

blood heirs are children, parents, brothers sisters, half brothers and sisters, grand parents, uncles and aunts

If your kids are under 20 - they need to wait until they are of age to inherit the assets

If you have house and land with your wife then you need to look at this carefully.

Suggest you separate the Wills and have one for Australia and one for Thailand.

It has been known for families in Australia to challenge the Will when they find out money is going to Thailand.

No point in getting the Supreme courts involved because of some disgruntled relative.

You sound like you have worked hard to accumulate these assets and so why not spend a little time in getting a Will done?

Its not bad luck its just prudent to plan.

Blackjack,

Thanks for the advice.

Couple of questions if you can help further please.

If I have nothing but Superannuation in Australia do I need an Australian will or will my wife (or children) just have to supply the death certificate if they are named as recipients ?

For our Thai assets will we need 4 x wills, 1 each for my wife and I, in both English and Thai ?

Cheers,

BB

[BlackJack]

Hi from experience the beneficiary is named in your super policy and so this should not be a problem if you named your partner as the beneficiary - just check to make sure

The Thai Will is done in English and Thai - ie the first paragraph is in English then the next paragraph is in Thai. If there is property then the Chanote is in Thai and so is photocopied and attached to the Will, it is also written in English to say see attachment 1 of the Chanote.

So normally 2 identical Wills - one for you and one to keep in the Lawyers office.

Each page is signed.

thanks