Final clause of Thai charter lets junta off hook for coup

[heybruce]

"Meanwhile, Thienchay Kirananda, president of the National Reform Council, said yesterday that the NRC would not endorse the draft constitution if there were any "blemish" considered unacceptable to the public. When asked to define "blemish", he said that would be identified by the public."

With martial law, censorship, bans on political gatherings and criticism of the junta, etc., how is the public expected to identify blemishes?

[sawadee1947]

They have no problems granting themselves amnesty. But God forbid that anyone else gets its. Where is Suthep now. Why isn't he protesting this amnesty. Oh, I forgot he hiding behind a orange robe.

Suthep protested and succeeded taking the corrupt and incapable government formed by the Siwanatras out.

He also protested against the amnesty proposed to be given to a criminal in the run by his also corrupt sister.

As this government is fighting against corruption and try to reform this useless police force, what is he going to protest about?

I'm not sure....in which country you are living? Sounds like fairy tales. If you think that it is a great improvement if army rules a country then you are talking about dicatorship and not democracy. As Burma, Cambodia, North Korea, 3rd Reich??? Think twice

[Alwyn]

They have no problems granting themselves amnesty. But God forbid that anyone else gets its. Where is Suthep now. Why isn't he protesting this amnesty. Oh, I forgot he hiding behind a orange robe.

Suthep protested and succeeded taking the corrupt and incapable government formed by the Siwanatras out.

He also protested against the amnesty proposed to be given to a criminal in the run by his also corrupt sister.

As this government is fighting against corruption and try to reform this useless police force, what is he going to protest about?

This government has nothing to do with fighting corruption, it's about changing the balance of power for corruption.

[rubl]

"Meanwhile, Thienchay Kirananda, president of the National Reform Council, said yesterday that the NRC would not endorse the draft constitution if there were any "blemish" considered unacceptable to the public. When asked to define "blemish", he said that would be identified by the public."

With martial law, censorship, bans on political gatherings and criticism of the junta, etc., how is the public expected to identify blemishes?

The clue is in 'considered unacceptable to the public' I guess.

BTW martial law, censorship, etc., etc. have nothing to do with the public identifying blemishes. The public only needs to have a copy of the draft and mail comments to the CDC or its commissions.

[winstonc]

Next drop the martial law and give one man "Absolute Power" and be untouchable and unaswerable to anyone. He will be free to do anything to anyone, anytime he pleases. No mortal would dare question the gods.

until the coup the last lot thought they werent answerable to anyone either hence that little amnesty they pushed through for themselves until the protests started.mate.

[h90]

They have no problems granting themselves amnesty. But God forbid that anyone else gets its. Where is Suthep now. Why isn't he protesting this amnesty. Oh, I forgot he hiding behind a orange robe.

I don't have problems with this amnesty.....But the cases of own corruption...even if they are minor (microphones) where is the heavy hand??? If crushing the one people if they are corrupt, many people would have respect.

[retsdon]

How many new constitutions. charters, whatever is this over the last 12 years or so? To my reckoning this must be number 3, but they come and go so frequently it would b easy to lose count.

Given its inherent bias, and the grounds for future conflict being baked into the cake. I don't imagine that this one ( whenever it gets finished) will last any longer than its predecessors. Still, I suppose constantly going round and round like so many hamsters on a wheel gives these people something to do.

[EnglishJohn]

They have no problems granting themselves amnesty. But God forbid that anyone else gets its. Where is Suthep now. Why isn't he protesting this amnesty. Oh, I forgot he hiding behind a orange robe.

Jeez, I really do try to have a better opinion of Pheu-Thai supporters, but you do keep on posting hogwash like this.

What do the Junta want amnesty for ? - Answer: stepping in to stop a civil war after terrorists were murdering Pheu-Thai opposition on an increasing level.

What does Thaksin want amnesty for ?. Answer: A corruption conviction and to be cleared of many other charges of corruption waiting for when he gets back.

Think about it : if he is really innocent, why didn't he come back and face the music while Pheu-Thai were in power ?. That was his best chance of a fair trial. Do you think, perhaps, that he knows he is guilty ?.

You people do not do yourselves any favours. Try to stop foaming at the mouth before you post.

[h90]

They have no problems granting themselves amnesty. But God forbid that anyone else gets its. Where is Suthep now. Why isn't he protesting this amnesty. Oh, I forgot he hiding behind a orange robe.

Bob... get a life..! I have lived here almost 13 years and have Never seen Thai people so happy.... open your eyes... Thaksin has gone... get over it..!!! And as you and I are Farang, it has absolutely NOTHING to do with us... Next !

That's a very bold statement mate, whilst I've only lived here 3 years I haven't noticed ANY difference in the overall happiness of the people I see now, compared to last year compared to the year before, they were the same happy people now as they are were then.

I mean seriously, did you honestly detect abject misery and emotional imbalances, huge rises in cases of depression during the last year, compared to present day? Every where I've traveled within Thailand over the last 3 years, it's been indifferent.

What's your benchmark for gauging happiness ?

Well during the demonstrations many people were concerned.

Some because they want Thaksin away.

Others because they liked Thaksin and wanted the yellows away

Some because of the traffic jam

And some because there is fighting between Thai people.

Of course "unhappiness" depends on how political interested someone is. Surely many people in non effected areas simply didn't care.

[Fat Haggis]

They have no problems granting themselves amnesty. But God forbid that anyone else gets its. Where is Suthep now. Why isn't he protesting this amnesty. Oh, I forgot he hiding behind a orange robe.

Jeez, I really do try to have a better opinion of Pheu-Thai supporters, but you do keep on posting hogwash like this.

What do the Junta want amnesty for ? - Answer: stepping in to stop a civil war after terrorists were murdering Pheu-Thai opposition on an increasing level.

What does Thaksin want amnesty for ?. Answer: A corruption conviction and to be cleared of many other charges of corruption waiting for when he gets back.

Think about it : if he is really innocent, why didn't he come back and face the music while Pheu-Thai were in power ?. That was his best chance of a fair trial. Do you think, perhaps, that he knows he is guilty ?.

You people do not do yourselves any favours. Try to stop foaming at the mouth before you post.

Jeez Stepping in to stop a civil war, despite there already IS a civil war ongoing in the South of the country, for over 10 years that YOU PEOPLE keep tending to forget about. ??

You cannot step in on the pretext of stopping something that's already happening..

You should heed your own words, and go and wipe the froth from yours, and not all anti Junta people are Thaksin lovers or PTP supporters either, but I guess you know different because you're tiny little narrow mind doesn't allow for other reasons, or variables

[bkkcanuck8]

They have no problems granting themselves amnesty. But God forbid that anyone else gets its. Where is Suthep now. Why isn't he protesting this amnesty. Oh, I forgot he hiding behind a orange robe.

If history repeats itself we will have

. a new Thaksin controlled political party with a Thaksin clone as party list number 1 will win the elections

. junta leaders turned politicians will win one or two seats

. the 'junta' party joins the Thaksin-party led coalition

. Thaksin's clone pushes for a new blanket amnesty bill

. the former junta leaders turned MP vote in favour of the blanket amnesty just to make double sure.

If you want to crack open the party system you have to make the parties themselves beholden to the people

- making sure that anyone can become a member of a party (i.e. no more than nominal fee for the entrance to cover membership cost - which based on my personal experience of party membership should be at most 50 baht - it was $5 for me to join at various times in Canada - Progressive Conservative, Reform and Canadian Alliance as well as the Conservative Party (after merger))

- make the choice of leadership of a party should be open to an open nomination where the party members vote for their leader.

- if the CDC insists on keeping the Party List then it should be made up of nominated candidates for regions that received the most votes - as opposed to some list beholden to the leader who appointed them.

I am not surprised about the amnesty being embedded in the constitution - they are unfortunately above the law and will grant the "right people" amnesty. Until amnesty is not an option, there will be a repeat of the same cycle over and over again.

[brucec64]

What did the Junta really do? no one was killed ... no bullets fired

Did they really do anything wrong?

They only stepped in to preserve the peace

So a few people got detained or tortured, this can happen anywhere

They should each be given large bonuses just like PT gave themselves for the rice scheme

Morally rotten and intellectually lazy.

I agree, but I was going to phrase it as morally bankrupt and devoid of any moral compass.

"So a few people got detained and tortured" is one of the most disgusting statements I have ever seen on this site. Usually these keyboard hard guys are the first ones to cry like a little girl if any of these abuses ever happened to them.

[rubl]

They have no problems granting themselves amnesty. But God forbid that anyone else gets its. Where is Suthep now. Why isn't he protesting this amnesty. Oh, I forgot he hiding behind a orange robe.

If history repeats itself we will have

. a new Thaksin controlled political party with a Thaksin clone as party list number 1 will win the elections

. junta leaders turned politicians will win one or two seats

. the 'junta' party joins the Thaksin-party led coalition

. Thaksin's clone pushes for a new blanket amnesty bill

. the former junta leaders turned MP vote in favour of the blanket amnesty just to make double sure.

If you want to crack open the party system you have to make the parties themselves beholden to the people

- making sure that anyone can become a member of a party (i.e. no more than nominal fee for the entrance to cover membership cost - which based on my personal experience of party membership should be at most 50 baht - it was $5 for me to join at various times in Canada - Progressive Conservative, Reform and Canadian Alliance as well as the Conservative Party (after merger))

- make the choice of leadership of a party should be open to an open nomination where the party members vote for their leader.

- if the CDC insists on keeping the Party List then it should be made up of nominated candidates for regions that received the most votes - as opposed to some list beholden to the leader who appointed them.

I am not surprised about the amnesty being embedded in the constitution - they are unfortunately above the law and will grant the "right people" amnesty. Until amnesty is not an option, there will be a repeat of the same cycle over and over again.

Add

- no party can be owned by a person

- no members receive a salary from the party or it's founder / owner

- only party execs receive a salary from the party but are explicitly excluded from most of it's political activities other than arranging, logistics.

- party execs cannot be constituency MP, constituency or party list candidate at the same time.

[bkkcanuck8]

They have no problems granting themselves amnesty. But God forbid that anyone else gets its. Where is Suthep now. Why isn't he protesting this amnesty. Oh, I forgot he hiding behind a orange robe.

If history repeats itself we will have

. a new Thaksin controlled political party with a Thaksin clone as party list number 1 will win the elections

. junta leaders turned politicians will win one or two seats

. the 'junta' party joins the Thaksin-party led coalition

. Thaksin's clone pushes for a new blanket amnesty bill

. the former junta leaders turned MP vote in favour of the blanket amnesty just to make double sure.

If you want to crack open the party system you have to make the parties themselves beholden to the people

- making sure that anyone can become a member of a party (i.e. no more than nominal fee for the entrance to cover membership cost - which based on my personal experience of party membership should be at most 50 baht - it was $5 for me to join at various times in Canada - Progressive Conservative, Reform and Canadian Alliance as well as the Conservative Party (after merger))

- make the choice of leadership of a party should be open to an open nomination where the party members vote for their leader.

- if the CDC insists on keeping the Party List then it should be made up of nominated candidates for regions that received the most votes - as opposed to some list beholden to the leader who appointed them.

I am not surprised about the amnesty being embedded in the constitution - they are unfortunately above the law and will grant the "right people" amnesty. Until amnesty is not an option, there will be a repeat of the same cycle over and over again.

Add

- no party can be owned by a person

- no members receive a salary from the party or it's founder / owner

- only party execs receive a salary from the party but are explicitly excluded from most of it's political activities other than arranging, logistics.

- party execs cannot be constituency MP, constituency or party list candidate at the same time.

If no party can be "owned" by a person (which is typically the case since there are no ownership documents) then how can the owners pay a salary

On a serious note. Your second term would be very complicated to implement since it would exclude wide swaths of "members" from any company of any sizeable corporation.

The lowering of the bar for people to join a party and the giving of control of it's members through democratic means weakens the grip of people that would use a sizeable party for their own personal needs. Money though does influence politics since politicians have to get money somewhere from campaigns.... (unless of course it is replaced by public funding of campaigns which some countries do as a replacement for asking for donations - but then it brings other issues). I do believe in setting a limit on donations -- which by its very nature of limits monopolization of influence. It is also logical that employees of the party would not work for anyone but the party, but employees usually are low level anyway -- i.e. administrative, accounting etc. Party executives should never ever be paid money by the party, they should be volunteers. If someone is found reimbursing donations they should be arrested for said action.

Simply put making a party beholden to its members and its membership open to pretty well anyone to join a party (probably not good to allow to join multiple) - you make it difficult for a party to be controlled by an individual (unless the people democratically say so).

[heybruce]

"Meanwhile, Thienchay Kirananda, president of the National Reform Council, said yesterday that the NRC would not endorse the draft constitution if there were any "blemish" considered unacceptable to the public. When asked to define "blemish", he said that would be identified by the public."

With martial law, censorship, bans on political gatherings and criticism of the junta, etc., how is the public expected to identify blemishes?

The clue is in 'considered unacceptable to the public' I guess.

BTW martial law, censorship, etc., etc. have nothing to do with the public identifying blemishes. The public only needs to have a copy of the draft and mail comments to the CDC or its commissions.

Right, "mail comments to the CDC". And if the CDC doesn't agree that what is identified qualifies as a blemish, then the blemish free constitution is imposed on Thailand. That's so much easier than lifting censorship and having a public debate.

[jackted]

They have no problems granting themselves amnesty. But God forbid that anyone else gets its. Where is Suthep now. Why isn't he protesting this amnesty. Oh, I forgot he hiding behind a orange robe.

Bob... get a life..! I have lived here almost 13 years and have Never seen Thai people so happy.... open your eyes... Thaksin has gone... get over it..!!! And as you and I are Farang, it has absolutely NOTHING to do with us... Next !

You`re right that as a farang it has absolutely nothing to do with us......but you`ve `never seen Thai people so happy`? Really? Are you serious? What planet are you from? i`m curious to know where in Thailand you live? You may have been here 13 years but playing that card....`I`ve been here a long time` don`t wash with me. How can you possibly know Thais are so happy now?

[lildragon]

They have no problems granting themselves amnesty. But God forbid that anyone else gets its. Where is Suthep now. Why isn't he protesting this amnesty. Oh, I forgot he hiding behind a orange robe.

Bob... get a life..! I have lived here almost 13 years and have Never seen Thai people so happy.... open your eyes... Thaksin has gone... get over it..!!! And as you and I are Farang, it has absolutely NOTHING to do with us... Next !

You`re right that as a farang it has absolutely nothing to do with us......but you`ve `never seen Thai people so happy`? Really? Are you serious? What planet are you from? i`m curious to know where in Thailand you live? You may have been here 13 years but playing that card....`I`ve been here a long time` don`t wash with me. How can you possibly know Thais are so happy now?

His wife told him so mate

[bkkcanuck8]

They have no problems granting themselves amnesty. But God forbid that anyone else gets its. Where is Suthep now. Why isn't he protesting this amnesty. Oh, I forgot he hiding behind a orange robe.

Bob... get a life..! I have lived here almost 13 years and have Never seen Thai people so happy.... open your eyes... Thaksin has gone... get over it..!!! And as you and I are Farang, it has absolutely NOTHING to do with us... Next !

You`re right that as a farang it has absolutely nothing to do with us......but you`ve `never seen Thai people so happy`? Really? Are you serious? What planet are you from? i`m curious to know where in Thailand you live? You may have been here 13 years but playing that card....`I`ve been here a long time` don`t wash with me. How can you possibly know Thais are so happy now?

If they indicated that they were not happy they got an attitude adjustment which made them happy now....

[chooka]

They have no problems granting themselves amnesty. But God forbid that anyone else gets its. Where is Suthep now. Why isn't he protesting this amnesty. Oh, I forgot he hiding behind a orange robe.

Bob... get a life..! I have lived here almost 13 years and have Never seen Thai people so happy.... open your eyes... Thaksin has gone... get over it..!!! And as you and I are Farang, it has absolutely NOTHING to do with us... Next !

Be happy, adore the junta and tow the line or face the firing squad. Yep I can understand why people say they are happy

[xolm]

tow the line or face the firing squad. Yep I can understand why people say they are happy

Unless you have links and photos of the "firing squad", I can't understand why the hyperbolic exaggeration.

[chooka]

tow the line or face the firing squad. Yep I can understand why people say they are happy

Unless you have links and photos of the "firing squad", I can't understand why the hyperbolic exaggeration.

Well he said execute, maybe not exactly firing squad, there are many ways to execute someone. I see you are new and sure you can do your own research between beers, there are many stories not just in Thailand but also internationally about Prayuth's threats to execute. Edited March 27, 2015 by chooka

[bruceybonus]

They have no problems granting themselves amnesty. But God forbid that anyone else gets its. Where is Suthep now. Why isn't he protesting this amnesty. Oh, I forgot he hiding behind a orange robe.

Bob... get a life..! I have lived here almost 13 years and have Never seen Thai people so happy.... open your eyes... Thaksin has gone... get over it..!!! And as you and I are Farang, it has absolutely NOTHING to do with us... Next !

You`re right that as a farang it has absolutely nothing to do with us......but you`ve `never seen Thai people so happy`? Really? Are you serious? What planet are you from? i`m curious to know where in Thailand you live? You may have been here 13 years but playing that card....`I`ve been here a long time` don`t wash with me. How can you possibly know Thais are so happy now?

His wife told him so mate

Yeh with personal debt rising everyday, exports falling like a stone & GDP at a pathetic level, everybody must be ecstatic

[jerojero]

Off the hook now, and for any future coups.

[Bakseeda]

What did the Junta really do? no one was killed ... no bullets fired

Did they really do anything wrong?

They only stepped in to preserve the peace

So a few people got detained or tortured, this can happen anywhere

They should each be given large bonuses just like PT gave themselves for the rice scheme

You should read some thais news, foreign news and listen to the stories about political opponents to the coup as well as students...no bullet fired? not sure...people disappearing in the wild after an army visit...sure....

They don t preserve peace, the steal it

aaacorp....... if you don't like it.... there's the door.....!!!

Backseeda, i don't like it and i say it...you must be american with such answer : "if you don't like it go home!"

No i don't like it, i don t like seeing a country being stumpled by a Junta which has aboslutly no clue about politic, economy and just change the corruption destination for their own pocket.

And of course i would be happy to raise a specific finger in your direction, but the mod will again complain i m too enthousiast for people like you...

In fact i would be happy to applaud the students who raise their voice against Prayout...will you tell them to go away of their country as well?

What poll do you use to see how thai people are happy? the one ordered by the Junta?

Or maybe you ignore the fact than even the Democrat now complain about Prayout Attitude

So everybody is happy right? but not the media, not the student, not both political parties, not the economy...lot of complains but you ignore this...maybe it's because you live in the rural Isaan and don't see what happen daily here while you go fishing in the mekong, baksida....

I think a child could look at my profile pic and know I am Not from the USA.... but the real truth of the matter is ... Thai politics have nothing to do with any farang... You are getting your knickers in a twist ranting on about something which has absolutely NOTHING to do with you or me.. And just to add.. all of those millions of Thai people who sold their votes for 500bahts... They deserve this Junta ..! Go blame them..! Personally I don't give a damn...

[tbthailand]

What did the Junta really do? no one was killed ... no bullets fired

Did they really do anything wrong?

They only stepped in to preserve the peace

So a few people got detained or tortured, this can happen anywhere

They should each be given large bonuses just like PT gave themselves for the rice scheme

So there's nothing really wrong in detaining or torturing a few people?

or a few "hundred"...

that we know of...

It's sad... just sad...

[26vinny]

was not this what caused so much unrest when yinluck was in power,trying to get immunity for her brother, double standards. only saying, and i am not red or yellow

[a99az]

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Next drop the martial law and give one man "Absolute Power" and be untouchable and unaswerable to anyone. He will be free to do anything to anyone, anytime he pleases. No mortal would dare question the gods.

It's already started El General is at this moment preparing the rules that he can use to rid anyone who gets in his way. Be very careful what you say or you might get a long holiday at the Bangkok Hilton.

[city]

When, and it will, escalate will the defenders of the coup (on here) justify the over the top armed response by the military. There will be no relaxation of martial law and one incident of rebellion will be all the justification the Junta needs to cling to power for x more years. Suthep got his wishes. A Few Good men

[rubl]

"Meanwhile, Thienchay Kirananda, president of the National Reform Council, said yesterday that the NRC would not endorse the draft constitution if there were any "blemish" considered unacceptable to the public. When asked to define "blemish", he said that would be identified by the public."

With martial law, censorship, bans on political gatherings and criticism of the junta, etc., how is the public expected to identify blemishes?

The clue is in 'considered unacceptable to the public' I guess.

BTW martial law, censorship, etc., etc. have nothing to do with the public identifying blemishes. The public only needs to have a copy of the draft and mail comments to the CDC or its commissions.

Right, "mail comments to the CDC". And if the CDC doesn't agree that what is identified qualifies as a blemish, then the blemish free constitution is imposed on Thailand. That's so much easier than lifting censorship and having a public debate.

Correct, similar to a government ignoring and obstructing an opposition while pushing through a blanket amnesty bill even most posters here disagree with.

[rubl]

When, and it will, escalate will the defenders of the coup (on here) justify the over the top armed response by the military. There will be no relaxation of martial law and one incident of rebellion will be all the justification the Junta needs to cling to power for x more years. Suthep got his wishes. A Few Good men

You may have missed this, but the 2010 riots ended 2010-05-20