Thai democracy: 'wrong buttons in wrong holes'

[Eric Loh]

I will look up definitions for democracy shortly. But my opinion on it is that indeed it is often misunderstood.

Fundamentally democracy means to me a freely and democratically elected government. But there are conditions attached to it. A proper system of Checks and Balances, transparent, upholding of the Constitution, care for minority rights etc.

The democratic election seems to be the easiest to achieve, what comes after that is the hard part.

Hi Stephan, Fundamentally you are right, But...this is Thailand and one thing Thailand has Never had is a free and fair election.. I don't know how long and how many elections you have lived through here in LOS but one thing for sure corruption was and is rife, from buying votes through the village headman scheme or from the fact that a certain party cannot send candidates into Issan without violent threats and actions.. so where is the democracy when a candidate cannot contest a seat.? Let me tell you my thought on this.. The Thai peoples deserve to be under martial law.. they sold their votes for a mere 500 bahts.. They deserve a military junta.. because like childrens they need to be spanked sometimes... But the beauty of it all is that whatever the apologists complain about , Prayuth is doing a great job .. and when he does hand power back to the people .. Maybe.... then, we can have some shape of democracy in this country we farangs have grown to love....

I have not heard Prayuth blaming vote buying as a reason for the coup. Excuses like stopping a civil war and people killing each other, yes but vote buying, never mentioned. Perhaps the General knows better than you that vote buying is on all sides of the political divide and the EC and other local and foreign election observers have done a reasonable good job. Let's not forget the eagle eyes of the NACC and the opposition always ready to petition courts on vote buying. Rather weak premise to blame vote buying and by the way, the PM has not done anything worthy yet.

Eric - you are probably correct about vote buying. However, do you consider that not doing anything to stop the increasingly murderous attacks on protesters, the judiciary and anyone who dared speak out against the government, or making any attempt to catch and prosecute the culprits acceptable? Do you support those red shirt / UDD / PTP officials who applauded the murder of children on rally stages and who called for the setting up of separate Lanna state?

If you do, then that's your entitled opinion. If you don't then what would you have proposed when the caretaker PTP government and RTP were doing nothing to restore law and order?

My opinion is that I see a pattern of repeated coups and all have their reasons. Also like a serial killer, the motives are clear.

[oneday]

"...He insisted the law would be applied in a constructive way, as |the law gives officials a mechanism to deal with perpetrators of wrongdoings without the hassle of red tape..."

...more like without due process...

[brucec64]

The Nation fails to report that he makes a complete tit of himself while doing so. Compared to Big Tu's English ability Yingluck seems like a Nobel Laureate. View the country's embarrassment below.

https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=879087208816405

That's your opinion. The clueless bumbling Yingluck was considerable worse on her attempted interviews, even with the fawning Jonathan "Richard" Head.

At least he doesn't try bursting into tears and thanking everyone three times before going off and laughing behind their backs because she's too dumb to realize the camera's still rolling.

The Aussie woman seems to state that a democracy must have an elected upper house. Guess she better go and tell the to the UK, Canada, Ireland etc that they ain't democracies. Her English language ability was exactly pristine btw. Looks like she went looking for an argument.

What is it with Aussie media thinking they can teach the world about democracy? Maybe they should look at how the real Australians have been treated by the new comers and think about putting their own house in order.

There is a large difference between the Canadian senate and the proposed thai senate. The Canadian senators are appointed by the prime minister, making it an indirectly elected senate. Senators are also affiliated to a political party.

Even though the Thai senate is being touted as indirectly elected, this is not the case because the committees making the appointments are not elected by the people. This does not follow democratic principles.

[jerojero]

Thai know exactly what are the right holes. Prostitution, mia noi partaken by most Thai men across the country.

[Fat Haggis]

I will look up definitions for democracy shortly. But my opinion on it is that indeed it is often misunderstood.

Fundamentally democracy means to me a freely and democratically elected government. But there are conditions attached to it. A proper system of Checks and Balances, transparent, upholding of the Constitution, care for minority rights etc.

The democratic election seems to be the easiest to achieve, what comes after that is the hard part.

Hi Stephan, Fundamentally you are right, But...this is Thailand and one thing Thailand has Never had is a free and fair election.. I don't know how long and how many elections you have lived through here in LOS but one thing for sure corruption was and is rife, from buying votes through the village headman scheme or from the fact that a certain party cannot send candidates into Issan without violent threats and actions.. so where is the democracy when a candidate cannot contest a seat.? Let me tell you my thought on this.. The Thai peoples deserve to be under martial law.. they sold their votes for a mere 500 bahts.. They deserve a military junta.. because like childrens they need to be spanked sometimes... But the beauty of it all is that whatever the apologists complain about , Prayuth is doing a great job .. and when he does hand power back to the people .. Maybe.... then, we can have some shape of democracy in this country we farangs have grown to love....

I have not heard Prayuth blaming vote buying as a reason for the coup. Excuses like stopping a civil war and people killing each other, yes but vote buying, never mentioned. Perhaps the General knows better than you that vote buying is on all sides of the political divide and the EC and other local and foreign election observers have done a reasonable good job. Let's not forget the eagle eyes of the NACC and the opposition always ready to petition courts on vote buying. Rather weak premise to blame vote buying and by the way, the PM has not done anything worthy yet.

Eric - you are probably correct about vote buying. However, do you consider that not doing anything to stop the increasingly murderous attacks on protesters, the judiciary and anyone who dared speak out against the government, or making any attempt to catch and prosecute the culprits acceptable? Do you support those red shirt / UDD / PTP officials who applauded the murder of children on rally stages and who called for the setting up of separate Lanna state?

If you do, then that's your entitled opinion. If you don't then what would you have proposed when the caretaker PTP government and RTP were doing nothing to restore law and order?

Let the people with the rights to vote cast their votes last February or the planned second election in July. If there was ever a right time in Thai history to let the people move away from the PTP and vote differently then it was then.

All the TVF experts said the PTP were dead and buried, but the horrible truth was they just didn't know for sure, and the protestors and the military just couldn't risk the unthinkable and be proven wrong by allowing the possibility of a PTP victory.

The Thai people had the chance to prove the TVF experts right or wrong, but that was snatched from them by the protests and the coup.

[chooka]

The Nation fails to report that he makes a complete tit of himself while doing so. Compared to Big Tu's English ability Yingluck seems like a Nobel Laureate. View the country's embarrassment below.

https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=879087208816405

Ouch.

very arrogant man, "I know everything" This was just one lone female aussie journalist, wait till he gets to the UN where he will be eaten alive.

The UN???? He'd be in more danger if he were savaged by a dead sheep....

I was refering to the international media, not the UN.

[tbthailand]

Prayut asked what democracy was in her view. If it was about having freedom, then today people can go around freely, he said, ...

Not only is that not what democracy is, but of course, he is also lying when he says that...

[Zoroaster]

The reporter asked if he knew that the foreign community feared Thailand would not achieve a true democracy under the new charter, which is being drafted.

I watched the interview. As the reporter asked "Do you know..." PM Prayuth spoke over her and in earnest said "I know everything".

This guy is a tit of the highest order

[scorecard]

<script type='text/javascript'>window.mod_pagespeed_start = Number(new Date());</script>

" They may think I'm intoxicated with power ! "

Now, just why would anyone think that ? alt=giggle.gif>

I am sure everyone sometime in thier life has dealt with an intoxicated person. A drunk will never admit that he has had to much and deny he is intoxicated as he stumbles and falls around. I think Prayuth needs a coffee and a lay down.

https://youtu.be/Xvj4Ud-RKrM

I think you need 6 months R&R twice a year.

[scorecard]

<script type='text/javascript'>window.mod_pagespeed_start = Number(new Date());</script>

The reporter asked if he knew that the foreign community feared Thailand would not achieve a true democracy under the new charter, which is being drafted.

I watched the interview. As the reporter asked "Do you know..." PM Prayuth spoke over her and in earnest said "I know everything".

This guy is a tit of the highest order

You watched the interview. Wow a new fabie, always everywhere at all times, always an observer of every activity, all locations, 24 hours a day.

[rijb]

Later, he unzipped his pants so Mr. Happy could return to happiness.

[Fat Haggis]

<script type='text/javascript'>window.mod_pagespeed_start = Number(new Date());</script>

The reporter asked if he knew that the foreign community feared Thailand would not achieve a true democracy under the new charter, which is being drafted.

I watched the interview. As the reporter asked "Do you know..." PM Prayuth spoke over her and in earnest said "I know everything".

This guy is a tit of the highest order

You watched the interview. Wow a new fabie, always everywhere at all times, always an observer of every activity, all locations, 24 hours a day.

What an obtuse statement !! Did YOU watch it. And if so what did you make of it? Make sure you refill your glass of kool aid before replying!!

I watched it and grimaced as I thought he came across as obnoxious but each to their own opinions.

[Baerboxer]

My opinion is that I see a pattern of repeated coups and all have their reasons. Also like a serial killer, the motives are clear.

Your opinion about coups is clear.

Now, would you like to answer my questions regarding the red shirts, UDD and PTP; the applauding of the murder of children and the support for a brake away state? And the PTP/RTP inaction ?

[Baerboxer]

The Nation fails to report that he makes a complete tit of himself while doing so. Compared to Big Tu's English ability Yingluck seems like a Nobel Laureate. View the country's embarrassment below.

https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=879087208816405

That's your opinion. The clueless bumbling Yingluck was considerable worse on her attempted interviews, even with the fawning Jonathan "Richard" Head.

At least he doesn't try bursting into tears and thanking everyone three times before going off and laughing behind their backs because she's too dumb to realize the camera's still rolling.

The Aussie woman seems to state that a democracy must have an elected upper house. Guess she better go and tell the to the UK, Canada, Ireland etc that they ain't democracies. Her English language ability was exactly pristine btw. Looks like she went looking for an argument.

What is it with Aussie media thinking they can teach the world about democracy? Maybe they should look at how the real Australians have been treated by the new comers and think about putting their own house in order.

There is a large difference between the Canadian senate and the proposed thai senate. The Canadian senators are appointed by the prime minister, making it an indirectly elected senate. Senators are also affiliated to a political party.

Even though the Thai senate is being touted as indirectly elected, this is not the case because the committees making the appointments are not elected by the people. This does not follow democratic principles.

Each country will have it's own rules on how the upper house members are selected / appointed.

The point is, she suggested they must be elected to be democratic. In many democratic models, they aren't. And they aren't for very good reasons.

[Baerboxer]

The Nation fails to report that he makes a complete tit of himself while doing so. Compared to Big Tu's English ability Yingluck seems like a Nobel Laureate. View the country's embarrassment below.

https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=879087208816405

That's your opinion. The clueless bumbling Yingluck was considerable worse on her attempted interviews, even with the fawning Jonathan "Richard" Head.

At least he doesn't try bursting into tears and thanking everyone three times before going off and laughing behind their backs because she's too dumb to realize the camera's still rolling.

The Aussie woman seems to state that a democracy must have an elected upper house. Guess she better go and tell the to the UK, Canada, Ireland etc that they ain't democracies. Her English language ability was exactly pristine btw. Looks like she went looking for an argument.

What is it with Aussie media thinking they can teach the world about democracy? Maybe they should look at how the real Australians have been treated by the new comers and think about putting their own house in order.

Well, at least he didn't throw a banana skin at her or felt like punching the person in the face for asking a question? But you have got to admit that some of his actions at press conferences are of a injudicious person with little patience. He also want's Thai rubber farmers to sell their product on Mars to reduce stock piles; he also said he won't change his style, "because I am a person with multiple personalities.” Again recently he sarcastically told reporters "could execute journalists who asked questions” That’s not opinion that is what the General is saying.

The greatest failure by this regime is,’ failure to grasp that the Shinawatras are only a symbol of much wider demands for social change and equality is the central flaw in their plan'. Even Sarit knew that. Sarit style and his power seeking are similar to the Generals.

Do you know what the General's interpretation of democracy is? I don't. Just from what has been reported the action of the General, as a head of Government, has a lot to learn in handling the media.

The delivery of a democratic political system will begin the delivery of equity, education, social change, fair distribution of wealth. So it’s not what it is it is what it will bring.

I don't think a career soldier can change from a command and control hierarchy to something different easily. But he doesn't seem to keen on trying, His attempted humor seems to backfire more often than not as people take everything he says literally, which I doubt is the intention. Plus he's now finding out what it's like to be under the spotlight as leader of a country. I don't know whether he said some of these things seriously, sarcastically, or tongue in cheek - I wasn't there, were you?

I agree with your last but one sentence on what needs to begin a democratic system here.

The Shiniwatras are a corrupt greedy gang of unethical immoral crooks who exploited the poor for their own ends. What all sides, including the Shins fail to grasp is that people are better informed these days, TV, Internet, social media - people aren't as easily fooled anymore and many do question the hiso rich elites right to massive wealth whilst many remain so poor.

I've no idea what the PM's idea of democracy his or what is real intentions are. But I hope he doesn't betray the poor masses as the last lot did and the promised reforms deliver no more than returning control to the small % who have always had it.

[Linky]

<script type='text/javascript'>window.mod_pagespeed_start = Number(new Date());</script>

The reporter asked if he knew that the foreign community feared Thailand would not achieve a true democracy under the new charter, which is being drafted.

I watched the interview. As the reporter asked "Do you know..." PM Prayuth spoke over her and in earnest said "I know everything".

This guy is a tit of the highest order

You watched the interview. Wow a new fabie, always everywhere at all times, always an observer of every activity, all locations, 24 hours a day.

What an obtuse statement !! Did YOU watch it. And if so what did you make of it? Make sure you refill your glass of kool aid before replying!!

I watched it and grimaced as I thought he came across as obnoxious but each to their own opinions.

I have a feeling that Scorecard seems to think Zoroaster was actually there at the time and saw it live. Maybe he doesnt realise he can click on the link and watch it.

[brucec64]

The Nation fails to report that he makes a complete tit of himself while doing so. Compared to Big Tu's English ability Yingluck seems like a Nobel Laureate. View the country's embarrassment below.

https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=879087208816405

That's your opinion. The clueless bumbling Yingluck was considerable worse on her attempted interviews, even with the fawning Jonathan "Richard" Head.

At least he doesn't try bursting into tears and thanking everyone three times before going off and laughing behind their backs because she's too dumb to realize the camera's still rolling.

The Aussie woman seems to state that a democracy must have an elected upper house. Guess she better go and tell the to the UK, Canada, Ireland etc that they ain't democracies. Her English language ability was exactly pristine btw. Looks like she went looking for an argument.

What is it with Aussie media thinking they can teach the world about democracy? Maybe they should look at how the real Australians have been treated by the new comers and think about putting their own house in order.

Well, at least he didn't throw a banana skin at her or felt like punching the person in the face for asking a question? But you have got to admit that some of his actions at press conferences are of a injudicious person with little patience. He also want's Thai rubber farmers to sell their product on Mars to reduce stock piles; he also said he won't change his style, "because I am a person with multiple personalities.” Again recently he sarcastically told reporters "could execute journalists who asked questions” That’s not opinion that is what the General is saying.

The greatest failure by this regime is,’ failure to grasp that the Shinawatras are only a symbol of much wider demands for social change and equality is the central flaw in their plan'. Even Sarit knew that. Sarit style and his power seeking are similar to the Generals.

Do you know what the General's interpretation of democracy is? I don't. Just from what has been reported the action of the General, as a head of Government, has a lot to learn in handling the media.

The delivery of a democratic political system will begin the delivery of equity, education, social change, fair distribution of wealth. So it’s not what it is it is what it will bring.

I don't think a career soldier can change from a command and control hierarchy to something different easily. But he doesn't seem to keen on trying, His attempted humor seems to backfire more often than not as people take everything he says literally, which I doubt is the intention. Plus he's now finding out what it's like to be under the spotlight as leader of a country. I don't know whether he said some of these things seriously, sarcastically, or tongue in cheek - I wasn't there, were you?

I agree with your last but one sentence on what needs to begin a democratic system here.

The Shiniwatras are a corrupt greedy gang of unethical immoral crooks who exploited the poor for their own ends. What all sides, including the Shins fail to grasp is that people are better informed these days, TV, Internet, social media - people aren't as easily fooled anymore and many do question the hiso rich elites right to massive wealth whilst many remain so poor.

I've no idea what the PM's idea of democracy his or what is real intentions are. But I hope he doesn't betray the poor masses as the last lot did and the promised reforms deliver no more than returning control to the small % who have always had it.

It's not a question of hope - it's a reality. The current draft reforms DO return control to the small % who have always had it. Examine the reduced power of the House versus all the appointed bodies. All of the appointments will be the "right" people appointed by the "right" people, and the new constitution will ensure that this control cannot be shifted.

The issue here is that a very big, and very invalid assumption, is that the bureaucrats are any less corrupt than the politicians. So the corruption is being shifted from elected politicians to appointed bureaucrats. At least with corrupt politicians, the people can eventually vote them out. The only way of ousting the corrupt bureaucrats will be with constitutional changes by the elected government, which is really how this whole mess started the last time...

Unfortunately, history will be repeated if the junta continues down this path.

[chooka]

<script type='text/javascript'>window.mod_pagespeed_start = Number(new Date());</script>

The reporter asked if he knew that the foreign community feared Thailand would not achieve a true democracy under the new charter, which is being drafted.

I watched the interview. As the reporter asked "Do you know..." PM Prayuth spoke over her and in earnest said "I know everything".

This guy is a tit of the highest order

You watched the interview. Wow a new fabie, always everywhere at all times, always an observer of every activity, all locations, 24 hours a day.

It was there for all to see and I have actually seen the journalists report on T.V and she didn't praise him as he asked her to do. She is definately not intimidated by him and does give him a certain title.

[Zoroaster]

OK. No one here has a vote in matter. The majority of the opinions on this forum "against" 44... have no say in the matter. Now, the real question that has to be asked is, "Do Thais even care if 44 is invoked?" For the average man or woman on the street... I'd say no. Thailand and especially Thai law needs a few years to adjust to reality. It will not happen without a strongman in power. I'd say he needs 10 years to do it.

The majority here are voicing their opinions on 44 which you summarily dismiss on the weak premise that as they are not Thai nationals their opinions are worthless, then in the height of hypocrisy, you go on to actually speak on behalf of the entire Thai population, baselessly stating that Thais don't care about 44 in the slightest and then go on to tell all Thais that you know what is best for them and that it is 10 years of unelected tyranny - how fortunate the Thais are that you have no vote in the matter.