CDC: Provinces to 'elect' senators

[webfact]

CDC: Provinces to 'elect' senators
NITIPOL KIRAVANICH
THE NATION

BANGKOK: -- THE CONSTITUTION Drafting Committee (CDC) yesterday made a change to its proposal on the make-up of the Senate and resolved that 77 senators would come through elections in each province.

A CDC source explained that the Senate would have 200 senators, who would come from three different channels to ensure a more inclusive composition of the upper house.

The first source of senators would be elections in all 77 provinces, with each province choosing one senator; the second group of 65 members would be representatives from professional associations and government officials - 20 senators would be high-ranking government officials, 15 from different professions and another 30 would be experts.

The last source of 58 senators will be a selection process, though it is not known who will select them or how.

Another matter scrutinised by the CDC yesterday covered the post of prime minister. The majority of drafters decided to stay loyal to the earlier proposal under which the PM does not have to be an elected member of the Lower House. The CDC added that a non-elected PM would need the support of two-thirds of the House while an MP prime minister needed only a simple majority.

The meeting also discussed the issue of public hearings on the upcoming constitution, after an earlier report suggested that Deputy PM Wissanu Krea-ngam would coordinate with CDC president Borworn-sak Uwanno to refrain from informing the public about each article in the draft. Wissanu's office reasoned that if the public were informed about each article, there could be misunderstanding about the entire charter.

But the chairwoman of the CDC panel on "public participation and gathering public opinion", Thawil-wadee Bureekul, rejected that idea.

She said the issue was misinterpreted. The draft of every article had never been given to the public and the forums she held were not as public hearings but to gather opinion.

The CDC this week also hold close-door meeting to scrutinise the pending articles that has not been resolved, reasoning that by this means it would give the drafters more freedom in expressing their thoughts and debate freely.

Source: http://www.nationmultimedia.com/politics/CDC-Provinces-to-elect-senators-30257225.html


-- The Nation 2015-04-02

[JAG]

So even if all 77 elected agree on something they will still be outnumbered by the appointed ones - so why bother, it fools nobody.

[taony]

Sounds like a clusterf... Guess that's the plan though.

[DoctorG]

Centre for Dictatorial Control (CDC)

[yellowboat]

So even if all 77 elected agree on something they will still be outnumbered by the appointed ones - so why bother, it fools nobody.

On top of that:

"The last source of 58 senators will be a selection process, though it is not known who will select them or how."

The westerners who backed the coup promised that freedoms will be restored. This all sounds like those assumptions were solely based on faith and astrology rather than on history.

[robblok]

So even if all 77 elected agree on something they will still be outnumbered by the appointed ones - so why bother, it fools nobody.

Keeps the PTP from doing what they did last time.. this balances it out nicely. They just can't play by the normal democratic rules.. so restrictions have to be put in place.

[smedly]

So even if all 77 elected agree on something they will still be outnumbered by the appointed ones - so why bother, it fools nobody.

you're not getting it are you ?

This is a key check and balance system bringing together quite a diverse group from a broad selection of communities, if they were all elected then they would be no different in make up from the lower house and ultimately would be pointless having them there

[Stan7444]

So even if all 77 elected agree on something they will still be outnumbered by the appointed ones - so why bother, it fools nobody.

On top of that:

"The last source of 58 senators will be a selection process, though it is not known who will select them or how."

The westerners who backed the coup promised that freedoms will be restored. This all sounds like those assumptions were solely based on faith and astrology rather than on history.

Getting quite nostalgic for Yingluck and an elected gov't. This country is turning into a serious dictatorship modeled upon China.

[JAG]

So even if all 77 elected agree on something they will still be outnumbered by the appointed ones - so why bother, it fools nobody.

you're not getting it are you ?

This is a key check and balance system bringing together quite a diverse group from a broad selection of communities, if they were all elected then they would be no different in make up from the lower house and ultimately would be pointless having them there

Oh I get it. This is another vital cog in the machine being built to ensure that Thais are never able to select their own government again. Checks ans balances my *rse, this is straight out of the Burmese Juntas textbook.

[JAG]

So even if all 77 elected agree on something they will still be outnumbered by the appointed ones - so why bother, it fools nobody.

Keeps the PTP from doing what they did last time.. this balances it out nicely. They just can't play by the normal democratic rules.. so restrictions have to be put in place.

Indeed it will. No matter how much of a majority they win (and that means a mandate, although I appreciate that mandates are not something you believe in) they will not be allowed to govern.

[robblok]

So even if all 77 elected agree on something they will still be outnumbered by the appointed ones - so why bother, it fools nobody.

Keeps the PTP from doing what they did last time.. this balances it out nicely. They just can't play by the normal democratic rules.. so restrictions have to be put in place.

Indeed it will. No matter how much of a majority they win (and that means a mandate, although I appreciate that mandates are not something you believe in) they will not be allowed to govern.

Unlike you I believe that a mandate is only the start of a democracy. The problem is all the other stuff that comes with it.. no nepotism.. transparency.. not voting for others (remember them getting caught).. check and balances.. no tricks like sending people away and then voting.. secretly changing proposals and then voting on them. They violate it all.

In a real democracy this is not needed but Thailand was never a real democracy.. they act like the winner takes all and not answering questions about problems and budget.. if you got a country like that then unusual counter measures have to be placed.

I would support you 100% if they were good at real democratic governing.

[Fat Haggis]

No nepotism? And pray tell me how do you think the majority of those senators will be picked/chosen?

When you talk about balance that' to me is a 50/50 split, when yiu have a superior number in one side that's not balance that side will always dominate.

Checks and balances ? Really and just who does the checks and balances on those who keep interfering in Thai politics and yet claim they have no interest in politics?

I just don't get how frangs can fawn over a junta and what's going on within Thailand, especially the ones who don't have a vote in the first place.

Reformation and reconciliation ? Once they stop the electorate inequality they might stand a chance but everything today is preparing the way for the event but some people just can't see past this, or refuse to see it.

The wool is being pulled over so many eyes it's quite entertaining that some kool aid drinkers just don't see it.

Everything that's happened to date will all change once the event happens and from that point on, the divide will open up once again, I'm willing to give 10,000 baht to any charity that George names of there's elections before March 2016 !!

I'll even send the money as soon as I return from work overseas for him to hold.

[Srikcir]

77 senators elected out of 200 or 38.5%

It was bad enough that previously it was 50% elected senators. Now we see a further step backwards away from a democratic participatory government. Prayut's roadmap to democracy seems to have a lot of "turnarounds."

[JAG]

So even if all 77 elected agree on something they will still be outnumbered by the appointed ones - so why bother, it fools nobody.

Keeps the PTP from doing what they did last time.. this balances it out nicely. They just can't play by the normal democratic rules.. so restrictions have to be put in place.

Indeed it will. No matter how much of a majority they win (and that means a mandate, although I appreciate that mandates are not something you believe in) they will not be allowed to govern.

Unlike you I believe that a mandate is only the start of a democracy. The problem is all the other stuff that comes with it.. no nepotism.. transparency.. not voting for others (remember them getting caught).. check and balances.. no tricks like sending people away and then voting.. secretly changing proposals and then voting on them. They violate it all.

In a real democracy this is not needed but Thailand was never a real democracy.. they act like the winner takes all and not answering questions about problems and budget.. if you got a country like that then unusual counter measures have to be placed.

I would support you 100% if they were good at real democratic governing.

Unlike you I believe that a democracy, however flawed is better than a Junta installed by a coup. Your protestations, as ever, ignore the inconvenient fact that the Pheu Thai government was offering itself for reelection in an entirely constitutional manner when forced out of office. In that election the Thai people, if they had felt as you do, would have voted them out of office.

The election was blocked and the coup followed. It is hard to avoid the conclusion that the coup makers, and their supporters (including yourself? ) were unable to accept the likely decision of the electorate.

Don't bother claiming that Pheu Thai would have lost because in that case there would have been no need for a coup and no reason why an election could not be called now.

You have no interest in democracy in Thailand unless it results in the government which you feel Thailand should have.

[Baerboxer]

So even if all 77 elected agree on something they will still be outnumbered by the appointed ones - so why bother, it fools nobody.

you're not getting it are you ?

This is a key check and balance system bringing together quite a diverse group from a broad selection of communities, if they were all elected then they would be no different in make up from the lower house and ultimately would be pointless having them there

Oh I get it. This is another vital cog in the machine being built to ensure that Thais are never able to select their own government again. Checks ans balances my *rse, this is straight out of the Burmese Juntas textbook.

No you don't get it at all. Or you do but it suits your agenda to pretend otherwise.

The lower house will be fully elected. The upper house partially. The upper house does not have the power to veto the lower house. For example, had PTP managed to hang on to power long enough they could still have enacted the infamous Amnesty Bill into law when it returned to parliament even though the senate had voted against it.

Nothing like the picture you try to paint.

[Baerboxer]

Unlike you I believe that a mandate is only the start of a democracy. The problem is all the other stuff that comes with it.. no nepotism.. transparency.. not voting for others (remember them getting caught).. check and balances.. no tricks like sending people away and then voting.. secretly changing proposals and then voting on them. They violate it all.

In a real democracy this is not needed but Thailand was never a real democracy.. they act like the winner takes all and not answering questions about problems and budget.. if you got a country like that then unusual counter measures have to be placed.

I would support you 100% if they were good at real democratic governing.

Unlike you I believe that a democracy, however flawed is better than a Junta installed by a coup. Your protestations, as ever, ignore the inconvenient fact that the Pheu Thai government was offering itself for reelection in an entirely constitutional manner when forced out of office. In that election the Thai people, if they had felt as you do, would have voted them out of office.

The election was blocked and the coup followed. It is hard to avoid the conclusion that the coup makers, and their supporters (including yourself? ) were unable to accept the likely decision of the electorate.

Don't bother claiming that Pheu Thai would have lost because in that case there would have been no need for a coup and no reason why an election could not be called now.

You have no interest in democracy in Thailand unless it results in the government which you feel Thailand should have.

When is a democracy not a democracy?

How about when a democratically elected government hand over total power to a non elected criminal fugitive who tells them what to do, dictates all policy, appoints and dismisses ministers at will, puts family and friends into key government, civil service and police positions and pays them all a special extra salary funded from corruption and skimming of tax payers' funds. The instructions are carried out regardless of whether they're illegal, immoral or unethical.

Does that sound like democracy to you?

Don't bother claiming the only way they should be judged is at the ballot box - all elections here are less than open and fair.

You have no interest in democracy if you believe once elected a government is above the law and can do what ever it wants, and so can its leading individuals.

[JAG]

The upper house will have no veto?

I will be very ( pleasantly) surprised if that turns out to be the case!

[Baerboxer]

77 senators elected out of 200 or 38.5%

It was bad enough that previously it was 50% elected senators. Now we see a further step backwards away from a democratic participatory government. Prayut's roadmap to democracy seems to have a lot of "turnarounds."

Why did PTP want to elect all senators, but not provincial governors. Any thoughts?

[smedly]

Unlike you I believe that a mandate is only the start of a democracy. The problem is all the other stuff that comes with it.. no nepotism.. transparency.. not voting for others (remember them getting caught).. check and balances.. no tricks like sending people away and then voting.. secretly changing proposals and then voting on them. They violate it all.

In a real democracy this is not needed but Thailand was never a real democracy.. they act like the winner takes all and not answering questions about problems and budget.. if you got a country like that then unusual counter measures have to be placed.

I would support you 100% if they were good at real democratic governing.

Unlike you I believe that a democracy, however flawed is better than a Junta installed by a coup. Your protestations, as ever, ignore the inconvenient fact that the Pheu Thai government was offering itself for reelection in an entirely constitutional manner when forced out of office. In that election the Thai people, if they had felt as you do, would have voted them out of office.

The election was blocked and the coup followed. It is hard to avoid the conclusion that the coup makers, and their supporters (including yourself? ) were unable to accept the likely decision of the electorate.

Don't bother claiming that Pheu Thai would have lost because in that case there would have been no need for a coup and no reason why an election could not be called now.

You have no interest in democracy in Thailand unless it results in the government which you feel Thailand should have.

When is a democracy not a democracy?

How about when a democratically elected government hand over total power to a non elected criminal fugitive who tells them what to do, dictates all policy, appoints and dismisses ministers at will, puts family and friends into key government, civil service and police positions and pays them all a special extra salary funded from corruption and skimming of tax payers' funds. The instructions are carried out regardless of whether they're illegal, immoral or unethical.

Does that sound like democracy to you?

Don't bother claiming the only way they should be judged is at the ballot box - all elections here are less than open and fair.

You have no interest in democracy if you believe once elected a government is above the law and can do what ever it wants, and so can its leading individuals.

100% correct Mr BB, it really disturbs me how people posting here either ignore or have no interest in the facts about the last government and why the majority of Thai people decided they had had enough of PTP and Thaksin, and as time moves forward more and more of these criminals are being investigated and brought to the courts - "I am redshirt" no longer seems to be working for these low life scum as their power base has been removed and the law is being enforced

[JAG]

It really disturbs me how some people posting here can either ignore or dismiss the settled will of the Thai electorate, as repeatedly expressed through the ballot box, and embrace a military junta which would not disgrace the nastiest South American military regime from the 1960s, and claim it is in the cause of democracy!

[phoenixdoglover]

What I find interesting is the selective release of information about the draft Charter.

The makeup and selection process for the Senate has been widely publicized and debated.

What powers the Senate will hold has been pretty much a secret.

And to top it off, there is still vigorous disagreement about how, or when the Thai people will get to learn what is in the Charter, and whether there will be a referendum.

It all seems to be orchestrated for maximum confusion. That couldn't possibly be purposeful.

Perhaps another statement from the always expressive Prime Minister would allay our fears. Something along the lines of, "If you are a good person, you have nothing to worry about."