Koh Samui vendors protest police 'extortion'

[RigPig]

I personally see nothing wrong with selling copies, as long as they are sold as copies. People who buy them aren´t going to spend $800 on a hand bag anyway! It´s not hurting ¨Louis¨ or ¨Rolex¨ and imitation is the best form of flattery, they are only advertising the real thing....

If they put the word copy or ¨this is not a ...¨ on it no problem

Just legalize it and there goes that little earner for the BIB and the price of the goods could come down as that is a major overhead eliminated !!

[Basil B]

Two wrongs do not make a right...

Best protest would be to stop doing illegal things like selling fake goods ...and riding bikes with out helmets.

[samuibeachcomber]

So the Vendors want to freely break the Law while the Police engage in money making activities to break it also!

Samui sounds like a lawless Island,.

It is.

[harrycallahan]

An extortionately high bribe.

[samuibeachcomber]

You have to love a country where people who are openly breaking the law end up complaining publicly that the local police force are even bigger gangsters because they try to blackmail them.

Yeee Haw ! way to go, General !

rightly or wrongly people have been making and selling copies for a very long time.tourist come here to buy these copies.What is wrong is the blatant extortion by the police for "tea money" whenever the coffers are low.You hardly ever see them get off their backsides to do real police work,except when the international media latches onto something that embarrass the county's lawmakers.

[ThailandGuy]

How surprisingly......!

It is the same while driving through Thailand. Once I was stopped for crossing a white line (which i believe they still had to paint to make it visible)..... But there was no white line on that road, at least not in the last 20km. Arguing was useless as the result was a angry police man forcing me to walk back for 3 km to see the white line. On a highway? yeah right ! The solution paying 300 baht for a line that did not exist and drive on. Frustrating i must say.

[RigPig]

Two wrongs do not make a right...

Best protest would be to stop doing illegal things like selling fake goods ...and riding bikes with out helmets.

Any law which is not going to be obeyed is a bad law. Legalize it, people come here to buy fake goods, as long as they are known fakes so what? I don´t think anyone is going to be fooled by a fake Rolex and someone buying one is not going to buy the real thing anyhow.

If you don´t want the hospital bills associated with not wearing a helmet then either enforce the law or make the end user pay with insurance (which I suspect would be prohibitive). However the helmets must pass certain minimum standards so as to perform their job.

Thai´s don´t see the law as a means of prohibiting people from doing things but (by paying) as a means of being allowed to do them.

I knew a guy years ago who had a lake with fish in it, Thai people were fishing the lake empty. So he put up a sign which said ¨fishing in the lake 2000 Baht fine¨. A Thai came up to him and said he couldn´t do that, he asked why? The Thai replied that 2000 Baht was too much people couldn´t afford that 200 Baht is OK.....

Just look at some of the pathetic amounts of fines for different reasons, fines are meant to discourage actions which are detrimental to society. These fines are so low so that people can afford them therefore there is no deterrent.

The other problem is that the law MUST be enforced without bias and to EVERYONE, and Thai society will not allow that.

It was not that long ago that Thailand was still a feudal society and despite king Phrabat Somdet Phra Paramintharamaha Chulalongkorn the Great (Rama VI) declaring that all Thai people will be equal (which is why he is so revered by Thais and his picture is everywhere) the ruling parts of Thai society can not let go of the power their families once held. We are still seeing this today as we all know.

The only reason people don´t kill other people is because of the potential consequences (and without this we would have anarchy) which acts as deterrent. There is no word or concept in Thailand of consequences or responsibility, it´s all up to fate (or Buddha).

Hense the situation we are in today......

When I first came here 10 or so years ago, I was excited to be able to watch a society come into the 20th (21st) century and grow up as ours had before my time. It is still no closer, in fact it has drifted backward, what a shame they had it all lying at their feet.....

[dirtycash]

Koh Samui - an island that was once paradise,.. now turned into a noisy, 'excrement filled' hole.

your bolloc ks !! samui still one of the best if not the best places in thailand .

[Benmart]

Singapore had the same corruption problem in the within their police department. A thorough dismantling, arrest of the corrupt and reorganization turned it around.

Thailand can do the same but seems to lack the political will to do it. Good luck.

[northernphil]

I am in Northern Chiang Mai on vacation, got my first no helmet ticket ever.

Had to go to the police station and pay 100 baht.

Serves you right..............wear a hat .

[northernphil]

Selling couhterfeit goods ! Ye Gods ! Look them all up before selling fake goods reaches the mainland.

[duanebigsby]

I personally see nothing wrong with selling copies, as long as they are sold as copies. People who buy them aren´t going to spend $800 on a hand bag anyway! It´s not hurting ¨Louis¨ or ¨Rolex¨ and imitation is the best form of flattery, they are only advertising the real thing....

If they put the word copy or ¨this is not a ...¨ on it no problem

Just legalize it and there goes that little earner for the BIB and the price of the goods could come down as that is a major overhead eliminated !!

there are designers who are struggling to make a living, big company steals the design, sells millions and original artist is left with bugger all.

Try running your argument past an artist, photographer, or designer, everyone of them will tell you how hurtful it is.

Maybe the large corporations don't feel the pain but many individual artists do.

[jimky]

I can relate this. I'm the same way.

In the city I live I've never had a problem with police at all. At traffic stops often they see I'm farang and just wave me on after checking ID. Seem more concerned with getting money from Thai people. Other dealings have all been very good. Once was trying to kill someone (Thai) that "borrowed" money without permission. The officers that arrived on scene showed mix of being scared to just looking at me confused. They calmed us down and let us drive ourselves to station. At station chief was like yeah you can't do that but he spoke nice. Then scolded the other person. To me he was more like yeah I understand I'd be pissed too. He worked out a contract for agreed repayment by other guy, and no further violence/retribution/collection by me right there and had tourist police help make it a dual language contract. Then told the other guy if you miss a payment I will arrest you. Told me if he misses a payment to come see him. The guy did pay, thanks to help from police. No one asked me a bribe.

This all said... when I travel.. it is a way a different story. The very first time I went to Bangkok got pulled over with the officer demanding 2,000 baht, and I did nothing. I was confused though and just paid it. Since then new policy...

1) as much as it sucks, when I get pulled over for something i know I did (speeding or w/e) I'm almost never near home and am passing through. I just bribe way out of it. Having to come back to some city I might be passing through 250km from home and 250km from where I'm going to pay a fine and get license back, doesn't really work for me. At legit stops (ones with a bunch of officers / road blocks, sometimes army too) the officers often seem nervous. Do it like a drug deal 555. I don't even say hello, when he approaches I hand him my license first and have a few hundred baht in hand visible then just ask thao rai khrap direct with eye contact but spoken like a whisper. If he says something larger than is in hand, I act it out as confused, say mai mee.... (pause) nee mai, offering what is in hand. He often looks stunned maybe like this is too easy, and then takes it in same motion giving back license and that's that. Never met one that didn't take what I offered and let me go.

2) if I know I didn't do anything, I just pretend I don't understand a word he is saying (no matter what language is used). Then pull out big notebook with # for tourist police written large and pull out phone. In these cases most often I am just told to go. One single time I had a tourist police meet me at police station and I left paying 100 baht (unofficial) there just to concede and go, and on way out gave the tourist police lady 100 baht (she was nice, this was just a tip given outside) - in this case they insisted I ran a stop light down the road.

So yeah I'm part of the problem too. Corruption when suits me, fight it when it doesn't. Really though corruption is just too convenient not to utilize when solves things fast, and is too inconvenient to fight for being standup and doing it official. Now if they had legit tickets that could be paid on spot with receipt sure I'd pay those over paying a lesser amount in bribe. Truly, it comes down to convenience for me.

[samuibeachcomber]

I personally see nothing wrong with selling copies, as long as they are sold as copies. People who buy them aren´t going to spend $800 on a hand bag anyway! It´s not hurting ¨Louis¨ or ¨Rolex¨ and imitation is the best form of flattery, they are only advertising the real thing....

If they put the word copy or ¨this is not a ...¨ on it no problem

Just legalize it and there goes that little earner for the BIB and the price of the goods could come down as that is a major overhead eliminated !!

there are designers who are struggling to make a living, big company steals the design, sells millions and original artist is left with bugger all.

Try running your argument past an artist, photographer, or designer, everyone of them will tell you how hurtful it is.

Maybe the large corporations don't feel the pain but many individual artists do.

most copies are of famous brands,not small artists/ or clothing ,bag and shoe makers.think nikey,adidas,rolex,bulgari ingersoll

[Rooo]

A bit off topic. Many countries you are not allowed to bring in counterfeit goods & can face criminal charges. Australia is one.

[26vinny]

pure Karma Thainess at its best

[phil2407]

So she's selling counterfeit goods - then police say pay us ok - then they put price up and arrest employee? Why not arrest the bloody owner??? Oh just remembered Songkran coming up - so BIB need more money and tell wife - got bonus for Songkran ???

[Searat7]

Although the fines for violations here are too low as many have pointed out - if the fines were raised to reasonable levels I feel that corruption would just increase because a 500b bribe would be a bargain when compared to a 5,000b fine.

[RigPig]

I personally see nothing wrong with selling copies, as long as they are sold as copies. People who buy them aren´t going to spend $800 on a hand bag anyway! It´s not hurting ¨Louis¨ or ¨Rolex¨ and imitation is the best form of flattery, they are only advertising the real thing....

If they put the word copy or ¨this is not a ...¨ on it no problem

Just legalize it and there goes that little earner for the BIB and the price of the goods could come down as that is a major overhead eliminated !!

there are designers who are struggling to make a living, big company steals the design, sells millions and original artist is left with bugger all.

Try running your argument past an artist, photographer, or designer, everyone of them will tell you how hurtful it is.

Maybe the large corporations don't feel the pain but many individual artists do.

As stated by someone else small artists are rarely copied, only th big ¨pay for the name¨ brands...

[RigPig]

A bit off topic. Many countries you are not allowed to bring in counterfeit goods & can face criminal charges. Australia is one.

Fair enough, if they are forgeries. However if it has written on it ¨this is not a ..." or what percentage has to be changed before a breach of copy right?

Lets face it, a film company has made their money from the film already and the other spin off´s, and we know how much it costs to actually produce a DVD so why are they ripping us off with extortionate pricing? This is what causes piracy, greed on their part IMO. If the prices were reasonable why would you not buy the genuine article?

As I said before someone who is buying a fake Rolex isn´t (can´t afford) to buy a realone anyway so how is it hurting Rolex?

[rmacee]

I'm aware of serious intimidation and harrassement by the police and military on the Cambodian border markets ..sometimes up to 100 turn up and now stall holders are just shutting up shop .. They are using the counterfeit goods as the reason for the 'raids'

This is now happening on a weekly basis ..these people have nothing .. lucky to earn 400/500 baht a day ..

[RigPig]

Although the fines for violations here are too low as many have pointed out - if the fines were raised to reasonable levels I feel that corruption would just increase because a 500b bribe would be a bargain when compared to a 5,000b fine.

Then the penalty and enforcement for taking bribes needs to be bought into line accordingly too then.

Oh sorry forgot where I was for a moment. Who polices the police?

If they gave out instant fines they would all get a greater share of the profits anyway and ther would be a record of it.

[RigPig]

I'm aware of serious intimidation and harrassement by the police and military on the Cambodian border markets ..sometimes up to 100 turn up and now stall holders are just shutting up shop .. They are using the counterfeit goods as the reason for the 'raids'

This is now happening on a weekly basis ..these people have nothing .. lucky to earn 400/500 baht a day ..

And i assume the pirated goods have nothing to do with it? Just others looking to extort money from the poor...

EVERYONE has (should have) the right to feed cloth and provide shelter for themselves and family and you will do whatever it takes. This is a small contribution from Louis and Rolex IMHO with no harm done and no profits lost.

Edited because 1/2 the post / reply got deleted...

[Bangkok Barry]

I am in Northern Chiang Mai on vacation, got my first no helmet ticket ever.

Had to go to the police station and pay 100 baht.

100baht. !!!

You know the law. You should have been wearing a helmet, and the law needs to be changed providing a minimum fine of 5,000baht for every motoring offence.Then and only then can we expect the roads to be less dangerous.

OBEY OR PAY!

I don't agree. If an individual wants to risk their life by not wearing a helmet then it should be up to them. The only person they harm is themselves. How about the BIB dealing with real criminals instead.

[Bangkok Barry]

A bit off topic. Many countries you are not allowed to bring in counterfeit goods & can face criminal charges. Australia is one.

Fair enough, if they are forgeries. However if it has written on it ¨this is not a ..." or what percentage has to be changed before a breach of copy right?

Lets face it, a film company has made their money from the film already and the other spin off´s, and we know how much it costs to actually produce a DVD so why are they ripping us off with extortionate pricing? This is what causes piracy, greed on their part IMO. If the prices were reasonable why would you not buy the genuine article?

As I said before someone who is buying a fake Rolex isn´t (can´t afford) to buy a realone anyway so how is it hurting Rolex?

What really gets me re DVDs is that if you buy a genuine disk then it might not play in your part of the world. People do travel the world these days, after all. But buy a fake and it will play anywhere. These idiot companies feed the forgery business with their greed.

[BadBouy]

I'm selling illegal goods And I have to pay a bribe to stay in business, That's simply outrageous!

[mike324]

to be fair, why not throw both the police and vendor in jail? perhaps we have to call on the dear general to take action again?

[RigPig]

I am in Northern Chiang Mai on vacation, got my first no helmet ticket ever.

Had to go to the police station and pay 100 baht.

100baht. !!!

You know the law. You should have been wearing a helmet, and the law needs to be changed providing a minimum fine of 5,000baht for every motoring offence.Then and only then can we expect the roads to be less dangerous.

OBEY OR PAY!

I don't agree. If an individual wants to risk their life by not wearing a helmet then it should be up to them. The only person they harm is themselves. How about the BIB dealing with real criminals instead.

I agree with you, as long as the consequences of that action do not become a burden on the State. If you have an insurance policy that covers you for riding without a helmet (which I doubt you could get, or if you could you would be able or willing to pay for), then go for it. If not then obey the laws as they are. The country (or any country for that matter) doesn´t care if you kill yourself because of your own negligence and / or decision to ignore the facts and be a ¨dare devil¨ but it is wrong to expect the State (which has / should have) a duty of care to look after you after the event of a mishap aggravated by your sole decision.

There are a lot of people that haven´t even paid any (or significant) tax here, that make this conscious decision, with no regard to a struggling infrastructure, but still expect to be looked after in the event of something going wrong. And I am afraid that is not right (in my book).

Freedom of choice yes but not at the expense of others...

[duanebigsby]

I personally see nothing wrong with selling copies, as long as they are sold as copies. People who buy them aren´t going to spend $800 on a hand bag anyway! It´s not hurting ¨Louis¨ or ¨Rolex¨ and imitation is the best form of flattery, they are only advertising the real thing....

If they put the word copy or ¨this is not a ...¨ on it no problem

Just legalize it and there goes that little earner for the BIB and the price of the goods could come down as that is a major overhead eliminated !!

there are designers who are struggling to make a living, big company steals the design, sells millions and original artist is left with bugger all.

Try running your argument past an artist, photographer, or designer, everyone of them will tell you how hurtful it is.

Maybe the large corporations don't feel the pain but many individual artists do.

most copies are of famous brands,not small artists/ or clothing ,bag and shoe makers.think nikey,adidas,rolex,bulgari ingersoll

Not entirely true. Google Forever 21 and Urban Outfitters to see examples of corporations stealing small, independent designers' works.

Many, many examples.

[monkeycountry]

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So a criminal being fleeced by criminals. Where's the story? This is standard practice under Thainess. They deserve each other.

The woman is no criminal trying to make a living selling at a small profit items she bought and paid for. The police are the criminals extorting money at the wrong end of the deal. Arrest the illegal copy makers and the police and get the country civilized.

Oh, on second thought arrest the illegal occupants of offices belonging to elected officials. What a concept.

A small profit? They buy these bags in Bangkok for around 100-200 baht, and sell them on Samui for around 1000 baht to tourists. Hardly a small profit. There is a reason she can afford the initial 50k bribe.

And yes, by defininition you are a criminal if you buy and sell illegal items. It does not matter if it is illegal handbags or drugs.

And how do you know what the vendors pay for illegal goods? Sounds suspicious to me. ;-)

The price of goods such as shoes and handbags etc. is a very popular talking subject among Thai girls, and girls in general :-)