Red shirts event 'needs permission', NCPO says

[tbthailand]

.............."Red shirt leader Nattawut Saikua said his group's objective in meeting the Department of Special Investigation on Tuesday was to ensure that the probe into the crackdown would continue in a transparent and fair manner.".........................

Sick and tired of hearing about the "crackdown" on the actions of armed terrorists who used innocent yet naive citizens as human shields. Entering the city and holding it to ransom breaking every law in the book, attacking the army and expecting to get away with it because they were "peaceful protesters".

In an other country it would have gone on for nowhere near 3 months and the fatality rate would have been much higher.

How about going to the root of the problem and probing the one/s who organized and funded this terrible display of spite and revenge ?

The redshirts have never done anything good for Thailand, only caused death and destruction of public and private property. They should be banned along with any other "shirt wearing" political protesters who use violence to further their gains.

Absolutely spot on Mike. Such an erudite post. It's nice to read such a straightforward opinion after being harangued by tbthailand who simply cannot see the wider picture and has no understanding of mass psychology.

again, I wonder if you were saying the same thing in 2013/14, ... or not.

it is humorous that people like yourself and mmac, who are so focused on Thaksin, accuse anyone of not seeing the "wider picture". Keep up the good work.

[Fat Haggis]

.............."Red shirt leader Nattawut Saikua said his group's objective in meeting the Department of Special Investigation on Tuesday was to ensure that the probe into the crackdown would continue in a transparent and fair manner.".........................

Sick and tired of hearing about the "crackdown" on the actions of armed terrorists who used innocent yet naive citizens as human shields. Entering the city and holding it to ransom breaking every law in the book, attacking the army and expecting to get away with it because they were "peaceful protesters".

In an other country it would have gone on for nowhere near 3 months and the fatality rate would have been much higher.

How about going to the root of the problem and probing the one/s who organized and funded this terrible display of spite and revenge ?

The redshirts have never done anything good for Thailand, only caused death and destruction of public and private property. They should be banned along with any other "shirt wearing" political protesters who use violence to further their gains.

Absolutely spot on Mike. Such an erudite post. It's nice to read such a straightforward opinion after being harangued by tbthailand who simply cannot see the wider picture and has no understanding of mass psychology.

Ian the wider picture can't be discussed or are you in a different gallery altogether ?

[rametindallas]

After his ouster in 2006, he (Thaksin) began employing (paying) his Moaist led, Marxist indoctrinated mob simply called the “red shirts.” Officially they are called the UDD or the National United Front of Democracy Against Dictatorship. The cogs at work here are best explained by Therdpoum Chaidee, a former communist and colleague of current UDD protest leaders, as well as a member of parliament under Thaksin’s now defunct Thai Rak Thai party.

http://www.atimes.com/atimes/Southeast_Asia/LE13Ae01.html

http://www.infowars.com/thailands-thaksin-shinwatra-marxists-and-the-nwo/

I hope it's ignorance on your part and you are not a Thaksin propagandist. From reading your past posts though, I have a suspicion you are a Thaksin propagandists. With all the links supplied to rebut your substantiated claims I find it difficult to believe anyone can be so willfully ignorant of the connection between Thaksin and the UDD/Red Shirts. He chose their leadership and paid their salaries. He paid for the Red Shirts to come to shut down Bangkok and paid them a daily rate to stay. He made nightly speeches broadcast, from who knows where, exhorting them to fight for 'democracy' which is Red Shirt lingo for a Thaksin dictatorship. You are correct that Thaksin and the Red Shirts are not the same thing; one is the boss and the others are soldiers following the boss's orders. Yes, the Red Shirts consistently call for 'democracy' but they have been told that democracy is simply the tyranny of the majority. Ask a Red Shirt what democracy is and he/she cannot tell you. Here is some of what was said on a nightly basis on the Red Shirt stage. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iqZ6ejEbcPo https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5K6bGlnirgk

From reading your past posts though, I have a suspicion you are a Thaksin propagandists.

I think that it is pretty clear from what I have said here during my time that I don't care about Thaksin. He's not the problem. He's just a player - sure, he is an important (or was) player over the last 15 years, but he is neither the source of all ills in Thailand nor a significant factor in the long-term future of Thailand - that honor belongs to the military institution/elite allies and social movements toward greater democracy, respectively. So, with all due respect, you might want to watch more closely what I say about Thaksin. I think you haven't understood my opinion of the man. (btw, he clearly understood/understands where the real power in Thailand lies. While he was PM he clearly did his best to make sure that the military as an institution would be an ally and not an enemy. He did not succeed, but he was trying like he11)

As for being a paid propagandist, well, all I can say is that I am very familiar with the sources that you link to and I can't take the accusation of "paid propagandist" very seriously. There are many paid propagandists out there and you linked to a couple. Good job

Seriously, it's not my job to change your opinion, but IMO, you would do well to search out a much much wider range of information. There is good and bad in any organization, and such is the case with the red shirts. The red shirts still remain to this day the only social movement in Thailand which consistently calls for democracy and elections.

he is neither the source of all ills in Thailand

Straw Man argument as no one says he is the source of ALL the ills in Thailand; just the Red Shirt mob and associated violence.

As for being a paid propagandist

Another Straw Man as I never said you were paid or even hinted at it.

I can't take the accusation of "paid propagandist" very seriously.

Here you falsely quote me. How dishonest are you willing to be in your arguments?

it's not my job to change your opinion

I'm not expecting you to try to change my opinion as what you call 'my opinion' are documented facts that disprove your untrue statements in the post I replied to.

The red shirts still remain to this day the only social movement in Thailand which consistently calls for democracy and elections.

The ONLY group? The Red Shirts, from their public statements, wouldn't know what democracy was if it bit them on the ass. Thaksin himself is famous for saying democracy was not his goal and the Red Shirts are his followers who believe every utterance from their hero.

You should probably stop now as you are looking more and more ridiculous.

You should probably stop now as you are looking more and more ridiculous.

keep going, Ram ...

ah, so I did quote your correctly, 'thaksin propagandist" but then mis-wrote it myself and said, "paid propagandist - that was my fault. Sorry 'bout that but just replace "paid" with "Thaksin" and let my post stand...

he is neither the source of all ills in Thailand

Straw Man argument as no one says he is the source of ALL the ills in Thailand; just the Red Shirt mob and associated violence.

well, it actually was just part of a statement that I made to point out that he is not that important to the past or future of Thailand... and it was not an "argument" - strawman or other - at all. But what ever floats your both. The point is still the same - Thaksin has been on the scene for some 20 years of a 'situation' that has been rolling along since 1932... please re-read what that sentence actually is saying... it's not about Thaksin. But you and others have a hard time seeing that.

YOU are the one (along with Mikemac and others) who believe, incorrectly, that Thaksin controls every move of the red shirts. They are not one and the same - and yes, that is a true statement even if Mikemac calls it a lie - he has no clue. If you feel the same, then neither do you, frankly...

now we come to...

it's not my job to change your opinion

I'm not expecting you to try to change my opinion as what you call 'my opinion' are documented facts that disprove your untrue statements in the post I replied to.

and my statements which were:

1. the truth is that Thaksin and the red shirts are not the same thing.
2. the truth is that the red shirts are the ONLY group in Thailand who consistently call for democracy.
3. the truth is that in 2010 the red shirts were protesting against a military-installed government.

all three are demonstrably true and your only response has been ranting and links from people like Cartalucci - come on, get real! Cartalucci?? Please, ...

Again, you need to seriously expand your sources of information, ... we probably will never ever agree, but at least then, there might be something to discuss.

Let's just agree that one of us is right and the other one is you.

[rametindallas]

.............."Red shirt leader Nattawut Saikua said his group's objective in meeting the Department of Special Investigation on Tuesday was to ensure that the probe into the crackdown would continue in a transparent and fair manner.".........................

Sick and tired of hearing about the "crackdown" on the actions of armed terrorists who used innocent yet naive citizens as human shields. Entering the city and holding it to ransom breaking every law in the book, attacking the army and expecting to get away with it because they were "peaceful protesters".

In an other country it would have gone on for nowhere near 3 months and the fatality rate would have been much higher.

How about going to the root of the problem and probing the one/s who organized and funded this terrible display of spite and revenge ?

The redshirts have never done anything good for Thailand, only caused death and destruction of public and private property. They should be banned along with any other "shirt wearing" political protesters who use violence to further their gains.

Absolutely spot on Mike. Such an erudite post. It's nice to read such a straightforward opinion after being harangued by tbthailand who simply cannot see the wider picture and has no understanding of mass psychology.

again, I wonder if you were saying the same thing in 2013/14, ... or not.

it is humorous that people like yourself and mmac, who are so focused on Thaksin, accuse anyone of not seeing the "wider picture". Keep up the good work.

On this particular subject (the 2010 take over of Bangkok), people who know or aren't blinded by propaganda, Thaksin organized the whole attempted soft coup and paid the protesters to come and stay and paid the salaries of their leadership and for stages, sound equipment, portable toilets, etc. He gave daily instruction to the leadership. Any ills that came from this black stain in Thai history can be laid directly at the feet of the convicted fugitive felon ex-PM Thaksin Shinawatra who organized this shortly after some of his ill-gotten gains were confiscated. PM Abhisit held meeting with the UDD and when the leadership of the UDD first agreed with PM Abhisit on holding early elections, a phone call came through and the offer by PM Abhisit was rejected. The protests should have ended then but that didn't serve Thaksin's interest. He needed more blood to flow so he could point the finger at Abhisit. Every death, every injury, every loss of income, every bad press around the world from this fiasco was caused by the egomaniac, narcissist Thaksin. Who else is responsible for this mob coming to Bangkok and shutting down/burning the city? You say we shouldn't be so focused on Thaksin. Give us a name of who did organize and finance this atrocity and we will leave Thaksin alone and demonize the the person you say is really responsible, Mr. Thaksin propagandist.

Edited April 6, 2015 by rametindallas

[maxme]

.............."Red shirt leader Nattawut Saikua said his group's objective in meeting the Department of Special Investigation on Tuesday was to ensure that the probe into the crackdown would continue in a transparent and fair manner.".........................

Sick and tired of hearing about the "crackdown" on the actions of armed terrorists who used innocent yet naive citizens as human shields. Entering the city and holding it to ransom breaking every law in the book, attacking the army and expecting to get away with it because they were "peaceful protesters".

In an other country it would have gone on for nowhere near 3 months and the fatality rate would have been much higher.

How about going to the root of the problem and probing the one/s who organized and funded this terrible display of spite and revenge ?

The redshirts have never done anything good for Thailand, only caused death and destruction of public and private property. They should be banned along with any other "shirt wearing" political protesters who use violence to further their gains.

I wasn't hanging out here last spring, but I have to wonder if you were voicing the same concerns about suthep and his protests, or .... not.

Comparing the red shirts revolts to suthep's marches is like comparing al-qaeda to the suffragette movement.

Yes Suthep has surely the best intentions for the Thai people and foreigners. You need to stop listening to biased individuals and start thinking on your own, buddy.

Let's hope he does not start listening to you max or he will really be in trouble.

Why? Will they demand him to join the autocracy camp for adjustment like the rest of your lot?

[mikemac]

Not responding directly to any particular member here, but it is pretty hard not to seem to be focused on Thaksin when Thai politics is the subject because he seems to be the common denominator when discussing Thailands' recent political turmoil.

Try it, think of a political drama/wrongdoing/crime/dodgy deal in the past 10 years that has absolutely no link to him.

[tbthailand]

.............."Red shirt leader Nattawut Saikua said his group's objective in meeting the Department of Special Investigation on Tuesday was to ensure that the probe into the crackdown would continue in a transparent and fair manner.".........................

Sick and tired of hearing about the "crackdown" on the actions of armed terrorists who used innocent yet naive citizens as human shields. Entering the city and holding it to ransom breaking every law in the book, attacking the army and expecting to get away with it because they were "peaceful protesters".

In an other country it would have gone on for nowhere near 3 months and the fatality rate would have been much higher.

How about going to the root of the problem and probing the one/s who organized and funded this terrible display of spite and revenge ?

The redshirts have never done anything good for Thailand, only caused death and destruction of public and private property. They should be banned along with any other "shirt wearing" political protesters who use violence to further their gains.

Absolutely spot on Mike. Such an erudite post. It's nice to read such a straightforward opinion after being harangued by tbthailand who simply cannot see the wider picture and has no understanding of mass psychology.

again, I wonder if you were saying the same thing in 2013/14, ... or not.

it is humorous that people like yourself and mmac, who are so focused on Thaksin, accuse anyone of not seeing the "wider picture". Keep up the good work.

On this particular subject (the 2010 take over of Bangkok), people who know or aren't blinded by propaganda, Thaksin organized the whole attempted soft coup and paid the protesters to come and stay and paid the salaries of their leadership and for stages, sound equipment, portable toilets, etc. He gave daily instruction to the leadership. Any ills that came from this black stain in Thai history can be laid directly at the feet of the convicted fugitive felon ex-PM Thaksin Shinawatra who organized this shortly after some of his ill-gotten gains were confiscated. PM Abhisit held meeting with the UDD and when the leadership of the UDD first agreed with PM Abhisit on holding early elections, a phone call came through and the offer by PM Abhisit was rejected. The protests should have ended then but that didn't serve Thaksin's interest. He needed more blood to flow so he could point the finger at Abhisit. Every death, every injury, every loss of income, every bad press around the world from this fiasco was caused by the egomaniac, narcissist Thaksin. Who else is responsible for this mob coming to Bangkok and shutting down/burning the city? You say we shouldn't be so focused on Thaksin. Give us a name of who did organize and finance this atrocity and we will leave Thaksin alone and demonize the the person you say is really responsible, Mr. Thaksin propagandist.

it's always interesting to see the fatally flawed logic of Thaksin haters.

I personally think it would have been interesting to have seen what would have happened if Abhisit's offer for elections had been accepted. Personally, I suspect he would have back-tracked and then the protests would have restarted, but of course we will never know. I personally imagine that the UDD felt that the strings attached to Abhisit's offer gave him too much wiggle-room to cancel elections and that they felt it wasn't a genuine offer.

First of all, consider 2010, early elections was supposed to be "go home and in 7 months, we'll have elections, ... I promise" and in 2013, it was so simple as "dissolve parliament and schedule elections" ...

Pretty easy to see why the Abhisit offer might have not been considered "genuine".

Sure Thaksin was part of that decision... undoubtedly. But now, your logic :

a phone call came through and the offer by PM Abhisit was rejected. The protests should have ended then but that didn't serve Thaksin's interest. He needed more blood to flow so he could point the finger at Abhisit.

Let's come to the glaring, obvious flaw in your reasoning and ignore the 'phone call drama queen" part. The party which has won resounding victories in every election this century is run by Thaksin and they would somehow reject elections because they wanted more people to die so that they could blame Abhisit.

Seriously, which planet are you on? Because it isn't the 3rd from the sun...

Of course you go on to say:

Every death, every injury, every loss of income, every bad press around the world from this fiasco was caused by the egomaniac, narcissist Thaksin.

which entirely ignores the group which has killed more Thai people than either side of protesters (although they clearly side with one group of protesters, ...) which is the military.

which brings us back around to the point that, I believe, Jayboy made - the people responsible for the vast majority of the killing in 2010 are now in charge and prohibiting a merit-making for the victims of their violence.

call me a Thaksin propagandist all you want... that is no more true that the other fantasies that you write about here.

[mikemac]

I am sorry I even mentioned the name of a former PM, he seems to have become the more popular topic to write about and comment on.

Getting back to the op, I am a bit confused regarding what the Redshirts really want. The first part of the story says -

....................................."BANGKOK: -- National Council for Peace and Order spokesman Colonel Winthai Suvari has said the red shirts must seek permission from the First Army Region's Peace Keeping Force before holding their planned activity on Friday.
The red shirts plan to make a merit-making ceremony at Wat Plabplachai to mark the fifth anniversary of the crackdown on protesters near the Democracy monument in 2010.".................................

Which states clearly the Redshirts have to gain permission before holding their "planned activity". Which is understandable and is the same rule that applies to all political organizations in Thailand.

But the story then says -

......................."Red shirt leader Nattawut Saikua said his group's objective in meeting the Department of Special Investigation on Tuesday was to ensure that the probe into the crackdown would continue in a transparent and fair manner.
The red shirts sought the meeting following reports that a new investigative team had been appointed to oversee the case, he said.
He denied that red shirts were trying to exert political influence and meddle in DSI affairs.
"We want to know the progress of the case and what is the timeframe of the case under the new investigative team,'' he said.".............................

So I am wondering what the Reds are really up to, are they genuine ??? in wanting to hold a merit making ceremony, or are they actually trying "to exert political influence and meddle in DSI affairs" ?

If it were up to me the only ceremony I would allow them would be a closing down sale and burning of all their red t-shirts, face masks (also come in black) guns, bombs, grenades, petrol and car and truck tires.

Edited April 7, 2015 by mikemac