No pain ... yes gain (fat loss that is)

[robblok]

Id love to go organic... but no such joy here .. I go to the local market for my vegetables for juicing (bittergourd / pak com / garlic / ginger / finger root / tomatoes / cucumbers / carrots) I wash them good and then see what happens. Its better as not doing it.

give it the nutrients it needs.

Take my kefir.. and other good foods.. I am definitely living relatively healthy.

Oh I am lean.. just not as lean as a sprinter.. but as i said there are some limits that are hard to break if you have a certain bodytype. Those skinny lean guys would have trouble packing muscle. Just doing deadlifts does not mean you get big.. you need good food and good genes too.

I think you should not ignore genes in how easy it is to loose weight and to go to extremes. The norm everyone can reach.. but that is not my game.

In Pattaya you can get a fair bit of organic produce.

I can get grass fed aussie beef, organic eggs, organic rice, organic flour, some organic vegetables, some organic fruit and of course there are certain fruits that are less problematic if they are organic or not like bananas or any thick skinned fruit.

So it is doable just not as good as what I can get home.

I don't live in Pattaya but a little bit outside of BKK. So its not really possible, also I am not a retiree so I don't have all the time in the world to go to obscure markets and such. I need things to be close and readily available.

Its all about choices.. long ago i choose to only use products that did not require careful planning to get. So I just need to take my chances.

[Tolley]

Id love to go organic... but no such joy here .. I go to the local market for my vegetables for juicing (bittergourd / pak com / garlic / ginger / finger root / tomatoes / cucumbers / carrots) I wash them good and then see what happens. Its better as not doing it.

give it the nutrients it needs.

Take my kefir.. and other good foods.. I am definitely living relatively healthy.

Oh I am lean.. just not as lean as a sprinter.. but as i said there are some limits that are hard to break if you have a certain bodytype. Those skinny lean guys would have trouble packing muscle. Just doing deadlifts does not mean you get big.. you need good food and good genes too.

I think you should not ignore genes in how easy it is to loose weight and to go to extremes. The norm everyone can reach.. but that is not my game.

In Pattaya you can get a fair bit of organic produce.

I can get grass fed aussie beef, organic eggs, organic rice, organic flour, some organic vegetables, some organic fruit and of course there are certain fruits that are less problematic if they are organic or not like bananas or any thick skinned fruit.

So it is doable just not as good as what I can get home.

I don't live in Pattaya but a little bit outside of BKK. So its not really possible, also I am not a retiree so I don't have all the time in the world to go to obscure markets and such. I need things to be close and readily available.

Its all about choices.. long ago i choose to only use products that did not require careful planning to get. So I just need to take my chances.

Actually I don't go to any obscure markets.

I get nearly everything from Villa market in Pattaya and a couple of things from Central but predominantly it is Villa. I also fly back home every couple of months and bring stuff over.

[bkkjames]

I did HIIT for quite a long time and I still play squash regularly which is similar to HIIT type exercise.

I use to do weights as well for many years but stopped over a year ago.

You really don't need to do any of this type of exercise to lose weight.

A bit of walking and some yoga is really enough.

It comes back to diet for most people although for older people especially over 50 there could a lot of other factors causing weight issues most especially thyroid issues and insulin issues.

If you can cut out sugar altogether and all processed foods then you will really find it hard to put on weight.

I was much fitter and stronger a few years back but since I really went on a very clean diet I am lighter and definitely much healthier.

It is important to remember that big muscles and a strong heart do not mean that you are healthy necessarily there is a lot more to health that that.

You are making a statement based on your body type.. for some it really is hard loosing weight. I have lost it and kept it off and eat a healthy diet. I do juicing, kefir, almost no sugar.. almost no processed stuff. I kept it all off (gained a bit but that was muscle as I am quite a bit more muscular as I was after i lost the 25 kg). Kept that off since 2012, so still a few years to go until I am a success.

Just stating that weight loss is different for everyone some body types have a far harder time loosing it as others. I know I really had to go to extremes to loose it.

I think HIIT is a good tool for health.. and maybe to loose weight. A healthy diet is the main important factor you cant out train a bad diet. I wanted to do some HIIT but been sore from exercising and think that recovery is important too. If I train too much (i am still sore the next day after weightlifting sessions) I am sure it will be counter productive to HIIT then. But as an addition to steady state cardio its great.

I understand what you are saying but I wouldn't necessarily even focus on weight loss.

Of course there are different body types and some people will naturally be bigger and might even have larger body fat but as long as they aren't too big and they are healthy then no m ore is really required.

I would focus on ensuring I had very good liver function and very good digestive function first and foremost.

You also need to look at the quality of food you are eating not just what you are eating. If you are not eating mainly organic produce then you are getting a barrage of chemicals in your daily food supply. Now some people handle this better than others but for those that don't the poor quality of the food itself can cause all sorts of issues especially as you get older.

Emotional issues should not be ignored either as our thoughts have a direct bearing on our health. Stress negative emotions etc can do even more harm than a poor diet!

Exercise is good but it is not a prerequisite nor is it a guarantee of weight loss or health. The body will find its own ideal weight provided you give it the nutrients it needs.

good stuff in there - a few points to add if I may

Focusing on weight - correct, muscle is heavier than fat.

Since I gave up boozing and hit the weights a few years ago my weight has gone down a few KG only but my beer belly is gone, I am much more cut and stronger. Results are not overnight by any means - it will take time depending on your intensity. Make sure you get enough rest in between.

The point about stress - yes we all know it has a negative effect on us and we all do all stress about things. The best stress release I know of (sans a good shag) is to hit the weights. I hear meditation is good but I am not the type to sit still too long.

Organic foods are good if you can find them and afford them. A good trick if you can't - especially for the veggies is to soak them in water with baking soda for 15 -20 mins before using them - make sure to rinse them off. Not perfect but better than not doing it.

[kekalot]

...These things tend to be for people already fit and not overweight.

That was my thought as well.

HIIT for un(semi)fit or older people looks like a recipe for disaster.

Pulled muscles, hyperextension, ligament rupture, sprain, bone fractures, heat stroke, apoplectic stroke, heart attack are real risks when you go to the limit.

It does depend on what exercise you choose for HIIT.. rowing is a great one.. but of course one needs to know if he has an healthy heart or not. I would not do HIIT if one has health problems.

I agree with Rob here.. man, I love rowing for HIIT

In fact Rob, I might send you a message in like 5-7 weeks about importing my own C2 if you don't mind.

I miss my C2 dearly, makes me sad to think about it!

[robblok]

...These things tend to be for people already fit and not overweight.

That was my thought as well.

HIIT for un(semi)fit or older people looks like a recipe for disaster.

Pulled muscles, hyperextension, ligament rupture, sprain, bone fractures, heat stroke, apoplectic stroke, heart attack are real risks when you go to the limit.

It does depend on what exercise you choose for HIIT.. rowing is a great one.. but of course one needs to know if he has an healthy heart or not. I would not do HIIT if one has health problems.

I agree with Rob here.. man, I love rowing for HIIT

In fact Rob, I might send you a message in like 5-7 weeks about importing my own C2 if you don't mind.

I miss my C2 dearly, makes me sad to think about it!

You can always message me I will do my best to help you.

[singa-traz]

For me, 3 to 4 Hours regular run per week (including some intervals) and after 3-4 weeks some visible changes start to happen.

The fat around and just below the cage ribs start to melt, giving a sensation of lightness.

[mommysboy]

HIIT certainly takes the average gym user out the comfort zone.

But there are lots of ways to incorporate this in any exercise regime, and even in the garden, and it need not be strenuous as the idea is to create some form of oxygen debt so you are a bit breathless.

To take an example I think posted above. In the middle of a rowing exercise, jump off the machine and do a fast set of starjumps or push ups even better, then get back on the machine again and continue as normal.

Currently I've taken to the medicine ball at the gym, it's one of those soft 7kg ones. I sit and slam it down side to side, and stand up and just throw up and catch the ball, and I may incorporate some semi push ups. My reasoning is that the more you can incorporate whole body in to the exercise the better.

I would reiterate HIIT should never be done unless you are already reasonably fit.

[mommysboy]

For me, 3 to 4 Hours regular run per week (including some intervals) and after 3-4 weeks some visible changes start to happen.

The fat around and just below the cage ribs start to melt, giving a sensation of lightness.

Bit of a slog isn't it?

Each to his own. I have to ask myself if I haven't done what I need to do in 20 mins on the treadmil, when am I going to do it?

[singa-traz]

For me, 3 to 4 Hours regular run per week (including some intervals) and after 3-4 weeks some visible changes start to happen.

The fat around and just below the cage ribs start to melt, giving a sensation of lightness.

Bit of a slog isn't it?

Each to his own. I have to ask myself if I haven't done what I need to do in 20 mins on the treadmil, when am I going to do it?

Like you say, to each to his own.

If the only objective of those activities was just to lose weight, that won't keep anyone motivated very long.

And if those activities are seen as a constraint or a chore, yes, it can look hard and boring.

70% of it is actually done at an easy pace, where you can have a conversation, so not really physically hard.

The interval sessions are the difficult part, where you have to push yourself a bit.

As to when do it ... first thing in the morning, so you can start the day in a fresh state of mind.

One of my objectives do require that I run for a certain time per week, so that bring some purpose to the exercice.

To come back to the "No Pain, No Gain", I used to hate this quote, I made no difference between pain and suffering.

I much prefer this quote: "Get Confortable being Uncomfortable".

Anyway, my initial point was more to share, that for me, there is a kind of threshold in activities where physical changes start really happening ... but maybe if I take a cooking class it would happen even faster, who knows?

[mommysboy]

I can't help but think exercise of this duration and freuency is in fact more likely to cause ill health. For one thing it will lower immunity and for another cause repetitive stress injury.

[JB300]

I use a HRM (Heart Rate Monitor) watch on the treadmill when doing "Intensity" training, my routine is...

1 - 1 lap (250m) Warm up walk (I do warm up before this)

2 - 1 lap "Run" at 12kph

3 - Put treadmill on an 8 slope at 7.1kph & sprint (at 12kph) until Heart Rate goes over 170

4 - Walk (on an 8 slope) at 7.1Kph until heart rate drops below 160

5 - Repeat 3 & 4 until I've done 3km (plus the 1/5km warmup/"Run")

6 - Repeat 3 & 4 on the flat (sometimes, if I'm tired, I'll do it on a 1.5-2 slope as it feels easier) for another 3km

Though I quote figures for the Heart Rate, it's more a case the watch will blink Red when I exceed 170, Blue if I drop below 160 & Green the rest of the time so just need to keep an eye on what color is flashing.

P.S. Never been able to jog (bores the crap out of me) but used to be/am an avid walker so the "Sprint" & walk method has worked well for me over the years.

Edited April 27, 2015 by JB300

[singa-traz]

I can't help but think exercise of this duration and freuency is in fact more likely to cause ill health. For one thing it will lower immunity and for another cause repetitive stress injury.

You are correct that there are risk of injuries, but it's not because of the load of those exercices, it's related to how much time you give your body to be able to handle it.

The one who gets injured either start too fast, too long or too soon. Valid from beginner to athlete.

People don't have patience.

I started initially with 20/30 min at snail's pace, and still had pain here and there. The body was just not ready.

But step by step, the body adapt and then you can increase the duration and/or intensity.

As for lowering your immunity, again you are correct, but it is only valid for long and intense running, and your body will recover quickly after one/two day of rest or easy activity.

For slow jogging of less than 60 mins, your immune system actually strengthen.

Two years ago, I would have said the same thing, but it's amazing what the body can do, if done properly.

I wish I knew this years ago.

[robblok]

I can't help but think exercise of this duration and freuency is in fact more likely to cause ill health. For one thing it will lower immunity and for another cause repetitive stress injury.

You are correct that there are risk of injuries, but it's not because of the load of those exercices, it's related to how much time you give your body to be able to handle it.

The one who gets injured either start too fast, too long or too soon. Valid from beginner to athlete.

People don't have patience.

I started initially with 20/30 min at snail's pace, and still had pain here and there. The body was just not ready.

But step by step, the body adapt and then you can increase the duration and/or intensity.

As for lowering your immunity, again you are correct, but it is only valid for long and intense running, and your body will recover quickly after one/two day of rest or easy activity.

For slow jogging of less than 60 mins, your immune system actually strengthen.

Two years ago, I would have said the same thing, but it's amazing what the body can do, if done properly.

I wish I knew this years ago.

Wish I knew all the things I know now about lifting weights and food years ago. Wow that would have been great.

[mommysboy]

I can't help but think exercise of this duration and freuency is in fact more likely to cause ill health. For one thing it will lower immunity and for another cause repetitive stress injury.

You are correct that there are risk of injuries, but it's not because of the load of those exercices, it's related to how much time you give your body to be able to handle it.

The one who gets injured either start too fast, too long or too soon. Valid from beginner to athlete.

People don't have patience.

I started initially with 20/30 min at snail's pace, and still had pain here and there. The body was just not ready.

But step by step, the body adapt and then you can increase the duration and/or intensity.

As for lowering your immunity, again you are correct, but it is only valid for long and intense running, and your body will recover quickly after one/two day of rest or easy activity.

For slow jogging of less than 60 mins, your immune system actually strengthen.

Two years ago, I would have said the same thing, but it's amazing what the body can do, if done properly.

I wish I knew this years ago.

Ok. I assumed you were running for 3-4 hours a time, a few times a week. I see now you mean 3-4 hours a week. Yes, there are no implications here.

[singa-traz]

I can't help but think exercise of this duration and freuency is in fact more likely to cause ill health. For one thing it will lower immunity and for another cause repetitive stress injury.

You are correct that there are risk of injuries, but it's not because of the load of those exercices, it's related to how much time you give your body to be able to handle it.

...

Ok. I assumed you were running for 3-4 hours a time, a few times a week. I see now you mean 3-4 hours a week. Yes, there are no implications here.

I meet one guy who has been running that long (3-4H/day) and that frequently for a long time, but weight was definitely not an issue for him.

He was preparing for a big challenge, crossing the USA from West to East Coast, running on average 66KM per day.

Amazing what you can do with your body.

Obviously, not recommended for everyone. It takes years of practice and preparation to be ready for such challenge.

[sanuk711]

.

JT-------The Simplest Workout To Get Stronger, Build Muscle and Burn Fat

http://stronglifts.com/5x5/

Edited May 5, 2015 by sanuk711

[JB300]

I can't help but think exercise of this duration and freuency is in fact more likely to cause ill health. For one thing it will lower immunity and for another cause repetitive stress injury.

You are correct that there are risk of injuries, but it's not because of the load of those exercices, it's related to how much time you give your body to be able to handle it.

...

Ok. I assumed you were running for 3-4 hours a time, a few times a week. I see now you mean 3-4 hours a week. Yes, there are no implications here.

I meet one guy who has been running that long (3-4H/day) and that frequently for a long time, but weight was definitely not an issue for him.

He was preparing for a big challenge, crossing the USA from West to East Coast, running on average 66KM per day.

Amazing what you can do with your body.

Obviously, not recommended for everyone. It takes years of practice and preparation to be ready for such challenge.

Wow!!!

I've seen documentaries on "The Marathon Monk" & remember Eddie Izzard (more known for wearing a skirt/heels than for being particularly athletic/fit) running a number of consecutive 26 Mile/42KM marathons (quick Google shows it was 43 over 51 days http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/8256589.stm) but to run 66KM is like running 1 1/2 Marathons a day & to be able to keep it going over approx 4,800KM is amazing!!!

[robblok]

.

JT-------The Simplest Workout To Get Stronger, Build Muscle and Burn Fat

http://stronglifts.com/5x5/

Been doing that for a while.. quite effective thing to do if your a beginner. But if you don't like lifting weights.. its hard to force yourself to do stuff you hate. So for some other exercise is better. It is not always about what is most effective, its more about what one can keep doing for a long time.

[mommysboy]

I upped my weights and have put in more effort recently. Got back to levels I left 15 years ago. But strained my neck and shoulder. Nothing serious but there are risks to hiit.

[h90]

I can't help but think exercise of this duration and freuency is in fact more likely to cause ill health. For one thing it will lower immunity and for another cause repetitive stress injury.

You are correct that there are risk of injuries, but it's not because of the load of those exercices, it's related to how much time you give your body to be able to handle it.

...

Ok. I assumed you were running for 3-4 hours a time, a few times a week. I see now you mean 3-4 hours a week. Yes, there are no implications here.

I meet one guy who has been running that long (3-4H/day) and that frequently for a long time, but weight was definitely not an issue for him.

He was preparing for a big challenge, crossing the USA from West to East Coast, running on average 66KM per day.

Amazing what you can do with your body.

Obviously, not recommended for everyone. It takes years of practice and preparation to be ready for such challenge.

There are these ultras.....200 km running.

I once saw them running from Vienna to the Schneeberg, up the mountain and down.

Roughly 90 km to the mountain and it is 2100 meter high and also a lot km.

There is some triathlon with 12 km swimming, 500km bicycle and 120 km running.

I didn't do any sport for 15 years and I am surprised how fast I am able to go 85km with the street bike in the full sun of Thailand.

Cycledroid says 2200 Kcal burned in this 3 hours. Of course that number is wrong to please the customer, but a 1000 Kcal seems possible.

When you go far and don't dehydrate it seems like the body switches into an ancient program to do it and you do it with less willpower than any 1 hour cardio in the gym.

I am confident I can double these 85km soon......

[Happy Grumpy]

Eat less, exercise more.

"Eat less, move more".

Billy Connolly.