Well Managed Condo

[Tammi]

I'm looking to buy a well managed condo so, yes, how the manager manages the staff is important to me. And how the Management Committee manages the manager is important.

A condo will most certainly deteriorate and lose value if there is poor management of the staff.

Does anybody out there know of a well managed condo in Pattaya Jomthien area?

(Most of the above is from my thread titled "Condo Staff selling units".)

[Basil B]

Suppose the most important question is what’s your budget?

Then look for yourself, I was looking at the low end and after seeing a number of units at View Talay Condominium 1 & Jomtien Beach Condominium, IMHO I decided that JBC was better than VTC1 because it appeared to be well managed and there was no problem in purchasing in my name.

The things that I observed that made me think that JBC was a lot better than VTC1 was:

• The security issue, At VTC1 all units had additional locks and grill fitted to most doors, this was a clear indication that security was an issue.
  
• JBC was very clean compared to VTC1, no piles of refuse on landings or blowing around in the grounds.
  
• Also JBC has two nice pools which look a lot better than VTC1 one and only pool.
  
• In addition VTC has a club house with gym, table tennis, reading area, etc, (I am uncertain what VTC1 has).
  

Both have 24/7 Security with a manned security gate house, security person at the entrance to each building & CCTV.

For all this the service charge per month at JBC is only 300THB (3600THB P.A.) which is extremely good value.

JBC is 8 years old and I assume VTC1 is about the same vintage so this gives a good indication that the way it is being run at present is how it will be run in the future, where as a building that is fairly new or even not completed you have no way to gauge how it will be run in the future.

I have posted some pictures of JBC and my condo at >>> My Condo <<<

As for management and management committee I know nothing, I should have asked before I purchased, I sure do want to know more when I go back in November.

With regards to what you posted on “Condo Staff selling units” I conceder this to be inappropriate as they are being paid to do another job but feel there should be an commercial side to the condo management that is supplying chargeable services and making a small profit that is split between bonuses to the employees and a dividend to the owners.

These services could be:

• Maid services.
  
• Letting Services.
  
• Maintenance, decorating and building services.
  
• Storage facilities.
  
• Collection and disposal of unwanted furniture, etc.
  
• Sale of second-hand units.
  

With respect to staff selling condo’s, maybe 2% to 2.5% if they manage the sale as their overheads would be lower or 20% of estate agents fees for referrals, profits should be split individuals involved in the sale, bonuses to all employees and a dividend or investment of site facilities for owners.

For an individual to make 30,000THB on an 1,000,000THB sale is setting a very bad precedence, do we really want all the employees acting like timeshare sales persons.

BB

[Rimmer]

Ocean Marina condo just past the Ambassador is run to very high standards indeed.

[jdinasia]

I have stayed at View Talay Residence ... Very nice! Well maintained and a decent company

[Thaiquila]

Another reason so many VT units have a second door is to allow the ocean breezes in, free aircon. I can't see how you would know that VT is any more of a security risk than JBC, short of researching police reports.

[jdinasia]

I am not fond of VTC's at all ... but the VTRes down by the VTV's ... NICE .... (but what about when they start building Ocean1?)`

[Thaiquila]

I am not fond of VTC's at all ... but the VTRes down by the VTV's ... NICE .... (but what about when they start building Ocean1?)`

There are totally different companies. Isn't the water pressure quite bad at the residences?

[jdinasia]

not when I stayed there! pretty &lt;deleted&gt; fabulous

[Thaiquila]

not when I stayed there! pretty &lt;deleted&gt; fabulous

Interesting. I looked at a unit and it was totally unacceptable.

[jdinasia]

hmmm the place I stayed in was the best decked out condo I had ever been in ... great bathrooms ... exceptional sofas (leather) .. great beds ... only drawback was the kitchen was not set up the way I would want

[Thaiquila]

I am talking about the WATER PRESSURE, not the condo. It wasn't happening, more like a lame trickle. Could have been the SEASON I looked (drought problems). Something to be aware of is all.

[sattahip]

I am sorry to be brutally frank but most of the replies above are of no real value.

You can establish the quality of condo management ;

1. Ask to see the most recent audited accounts of the condominium juristic person. That is the association in Thai law which owns the structure. These accounts should be audited, though with accounting standards such as they are in Thailand, this is no absolute guarantee of accuracy. In any building catering well to expatriate owners there will be an English language copy. Use your common sense to review income and outgo, accumulated net worth, presence of reserve funds etc. Ask to see a list detailing maintenance arrears. Be careful if the developer is the major creditor or arrears are substantial/chronic.

2. Ask for a copy of the minutes of the most recent Annual General Meeting. As with the accounts, any well managed building will have these in English translation. Review this to see if key issues like financial viability, management quality, maintenance planning and the like are discussed. See also how election of board is conducted, if it is!. Many condominiums here are autocratically run by the developers as a cash cow with no real ownership input/control.

3. Ask for a copy of the insurance policy covering the building. This will likely be in Thai but check with your lawyer what is covered,who is the beneficiary, for how much and with whom. Often insurance is completely inadequate, covers only fire and is with a company even for major buildings no-one has ever heard of. Strangely such companies often pay brokerage of some substance to the "manager" which should not be done for obvious reasons re independent assessment. Thailand has many reputable brokers in Bangkok who can arrange the right policy with the financially capable insurers plus advise on coverage amount which will increase over time to cover replacement costs. Check there is 3rd party insurance also though this will be rare. Good insurance companies will also offer staff fire training.

4 See a utility bill for a condo and check the unit costs of electricity and water against those an independent householder would pay. These items should not be a "profit centre" for management.

5. Ask for a copy of the association,s land deed which of course should be in its name (e.g. "name of condo" Juristic Association). In many cases the association will own only the footprint of the building and you can have a fun park or shophouses next year on what you thought were your clubhouse grounds or gardens. This is common. One building mentioned above as an exemplar has allocated only 2.5 rai(about an acre) for its new 33 storey twin tower. Now tell me that makes sense!

6. Walk down the fire stairs as you leave. A sign of good management is that these will be completely clear, properly emergency lit etc. Check the maintenance plate in the elevators. Is the manufacturer the maintaining coy? Shoddy lift maintenance is a time bomb. Again commonsense viewing will give you an idea of overall tidiness and housekeeping quality.

All this is a bit long but based on experience. I am the Treasurer of my condominium which is, I believe, capably run by the owners. We employ our own manager and security and cleaning staff and have had most of them with us since opening 12 years ago.

We are about, with a consulting engineers assistance, to commence a full refurbishment programme which will run to millions of baht. We can face this because our owners take a real interest in the building (75%+ attended the last two AGMs) and are willing to fund transparent running and extraordinary expenses.

So any questions or brickbats- I'm ready.

[Rimmer]

I am sorry to be brutally frank but most of the replies above are of no real value.

You can establish the quality of condo management ;

1. Ask to see the most recent audited accounts of the condominium juristic person. That is the association in Thai law which owns the structure. These accounts should be audited, though with accounting standards such as they are in Thailand, this is no absolute guarantee of accuracy. In any building catering well to expatriate owners there will be an English language copy. Use your common sense to review income and outgo, accumulated net worth, presence of reserve funds etc. Ask to see a list detailing maintenance arrears. Be careful if the developer is the major creditor or arrears are substantial/chronic.

2. Ask for a copy of the minutes of the most recent Annual General Meeting. As with the accounts, any well managed building will have these in English translation. Review this to see if key issues like financial viability, management quality, maintenance planning and the like are discussed. See also how election of board is conducted, if it is!. Many condominiums here are autocratically run by the developers as a cash cow with no real ownership input/control.

3. Ask for a copy of the insurance policy covering the building. This will likely be in Thai but check with your lawyer what is covered,who is the beneficiary, for how much and with whom. Often insurance is completely inadequate, covers only fire and is with a company even for major buildings no-one has ever heard of. Strangely such companies often pay brokerage of some substance to the "manager" which should not be done for obvious reasons re independent assessment. Thailand has many reputable brokers in Bangkok who can arrange the right policy with the financially capable insurers plus advise on coverage amount which will increase over time to cover replacement costs. Check there is 3rd party insurance also though this will be rare. Good insurance companies will also offer staff fire training.

4 See a utility bill for a condo and check the unit costs of electricity and water against those an independent householder would pay. These items should not be a "profit centre" for management.

5. Ask for a copy of the association,s land deed which of course should be in its name (e.g. "name of condo" Juristic Association). In many cases the association will own only the footprint of the building and you can have a fun park or shophouses next year on what you thought were your clubhouse grounds or gardens. This is common. One building mentioned above as an exemplar has allocated only 2.5 rai(about an acre) for its new 33 storey twin tower. Now tell me that makes sense!

6. Walk down the fire stairs as you leave. A sign of good management is that these will be completely clear, properly emergency lit etc. Check the maintenance plate in the elevators. Is the manufacturer the maintaining coy? Shoddy lift maintenance is a time bomb. Again commonsense viewing will give you an idea of overall tidiness and housekeeping quality.

All this is a bit long but based on experience. I am the Treasurer of my condominium which is, I believe, capably run by the owners. We employ our own manager and security and cleaning staff and have had most of them with us since opening 12 years ago.

We are about, with a consulting engineers assistance, to commence a full refurbishment programme which will run to millions of baht. We can face this because our owners take a real interest in the building (75%+ attended the last two AGMs) and are willing to fund transparent running and extraordinary expenses.

So any questions or brickbats- I'm ready.

I understand perfectly where you are coming from. People that know and own units in every block in Jomtien say that the the best run condo anywhere in town is without doubt Ocean Marina. Most of the owners are absantee high ranking and wealthy folks from Bangkok.

Go see it for yourself and ask the questions maybe you will be surprised, I was.

The downside is that units there are not cheap and do not very often come on the market.

[Thaiquila]

Excellent post, Sattahip.

Why would you expect brickbats?

The post ought to be in a sticky.

Of course, the reality is most people are looking at things like the paint job and view rather than in getting in the nitty gritty you describe so well, its all so mai sabai sabai.

[jdinasia]

I am talking about the WATER PRESSURE, not the condo. It wasn't happening, more like a lame trickle. Could have been the SEASON I looked (drought problems). Something to be aware of is all.

Water pressure was great when I was there ... that was the same time you saw all the tankertrucks filling up places in Pattaya . so maybe they had better local water pressure ... or maybe they had just been filled up

[bangkapiboy]

It is right that at View Talay 1 owners install the metal screen door to get a cool breeze going through the condo, without having to leave your doorway completely open. I have not heard of anyone installing these 2nd doors because of a security issue in the building. In fact I am ordering a screen door this month so I can enjoy the breeze as well here.

[lou62]

when I was in the process of refurbishing my condo at JBC, I also wanted a screen door for the reasons you mention above, but the builders were refused by the management of the condo as they said, it would look out of place as no one else had them.

Lou.

[sattahip]

I am sorry to be brutally frank but most of the replies above are of no real value.

You can establish the quality of condo management ;

1. Ask to see the most recent audited accounts of the condominium juristic person. That is the association in Thai law which owns the structure. These accounts should be audited, though with accounting standards such as they are in Thailand, this is no absolute guarantee of accuracy. In any building catering well to expatriate owners there will be an English language copy. Use your common sense to review income and outgo, accumulated net worth, presence of reserve funds etc. Ask to see a list detailing maintenance arrears. Be careful if the developer is the major creditor or arrears are substantial/chronic.

2. Ask for a copy of the minutes of the most recent Annual General Meeting. As with the accounts, any well managed building will have these in English translation. Review this to see if key issues like financial viability, management quality, maintenance planning and the like are discussed. See also how election of board is conducted, if it is!. Many condominiums here are autocratically run by the developers as a cash cow with no real ownership input/control.

3. Ask for a copy of the insurance policy covering the building. This will likely be in Thai but check with your lawyer what is covered,who is the beneficiary, for how much and with whom. Often insurance is completely inadequate, covers only fire and is with a company even for major buildings no-one has ever heard of. Strangely such companies often pay brokerage of some substance to the "manager" which should not be done for obvious reasons re independent assessment. Thailand has many reputable brokers in Bangkok who can arrange the right policy with the financially capable insurers plus advise on coverage amount which will increase over time to cover replacement costs. Check there is 3rd party insurance also though this will be rare. Good insurance companies will also offer staff fire training.

4 See a utility bill for a condo and check the unit costs of electricity and water against those an independent householder would pay. These items should not be a "profit centre" for management.

5. Ask for a copy of the association,s land deed which of course should be in its name (e.g. "name of condo" Juristic Association). In many cases the association will own only the footprint of the building and you can have a fun park or shophouses next year on what you thought were your clubhouse grounds or gardens. This is common. One building mentioned above as an exemplar has allocated only 2.5 rai(about an acre) for its new 33 storey twin tower. Now tell me that makes sense!

6. Walk down the fire stairs as you leave. A sign of good management is that these will be completely clear, properly emergency lit etc. Check the maintenance plate in the elevators. Is the manufacturer the maintaining coy? Shoddy lift maintenance is a time bomb. Again commonsense viewing will give you an idea of overall tidiness and housekeeping quality.

All this is a bit long but based on experience. I am the Treasurer of my condominium which is, I believe, capably run by the owners. We employ our own manager and security and cleaning staff and have had most of them with us since opening 12 years ago.

We are about, with a consulting engineers assistance, to commence a full refurbishment programme which will run to millions of baht. We can face this because our owners take a real interest in the building (75%+ attended the last two AGMs) and are willing to fund transparent running and extraordinary expenses.

So any questions or brickbats- I'm ready.

I understand perfectly where you are coming from. People that know and own units in every block in Jomtien say that the the best run condo anywhere in town is without doubt Ocean Marina. Most of the owners are absantee high ranking and wealthy folks from Bangkok.

Go see it for yourself and ask the questions maybe you will be surprised, I was.

The downside is that units there are not cheap and do not very often come on the market.

I'll take your word for it, Rimmer' but I am still sceptical. For Portofino, who will own there pool, beachfront and gardens. Ocean Insurance?

[suiging]

Good rule of thumb, ask an owner what they were promised on purchase, then ask what was delivered.

[Tammi]

I am sorry to be brutally frank but most of the replies above are of no real value.

You can establish the quality of condo management ;

1. Ask to see the most recent audited accounts of the condominium juristic person. That is the association in Thai law which owns the structure. These accounts should be audited, though with accounting standards such as they are in Thailand, this is no absolute guarantee of accuracy. In any building catering well to expatriate owners there will be an English language copy. Use your common sense to review income and outgo, accumulated net worth, presence of reserve funds etc. Ask to see a list detailing maintenance arrears. Be careful if the developer is the major creditor or arrears are substantial/chronic.

2. Ask for a copy of the minutes of the most recent Annual General Meeting. As with the accounts, any well managed building will have these in English translation. Review this to see if key issues like financial viability, management quality, maintenance planning and the like are discussed. See also how election of board is conducted, if it is!. Many condominiums here are autocratically run by the developers as a cash cow with no real ownership input/control.

3. Ask for a copy of the insurance policy covering the building. This will likely be in Thai but check with your lawyer what is covered,who is the beneficiary, for how much and with whom. Often insurance is completely inadequate, covers only fire and is with a company even for major buildings no-one has ever heard of. Strangely such companies often pay brokerage of some substance to the "manager" which should not be done for obvious reasons re independent assessment. Thailand has many reputable brokers in Bangkok who can arrange the right policy with the financially capable insurers plus advise on coverage amount which will increase over time to cover replacement costs. Check there is 3rd party insurance also though this will be rare. Good insurance companies will also offer staff fire training.

4 See a utility bill for a condo and check the unit costs of electricity and water against those an independent householder would pay. These items should not be a "profit centre" for management.

5. Ask for a copy of the association,s land deed which of course should be in its name (e.g. "name of condo" Juristic Association). In many cases the association will own only the footprint of the building and you can have a fun park or shophouses next year on what you thought were your clubhouse grounds or gardens. This is common. One building mentioned above as an exemplar has allocated only 2.5 rai(about an acre) for its new 33 storey twin tower. Now tell me that makes sense!

6. Walk down the fire stairs as you leave. A sign of good management is that these will be completely clear, properly emergency lit etc. Check the maintenance plate in the elevators. Is the manufacturer the maintaining coy? Shoddy lift maintenance is a time bomb. Again commonsense viewing will give you an idea of overall tidiness and housekeeping quality.

All this is a bit long but based on experience. I am the Treasurer of my condominium which is, I believe, capably run by the owners. We employ our own manager and security and cleaning staff and have had most of them with us since opening 12 years ago.

We are about, with a consulting engineers assistance, to commence a full refurbishment programme which will run to millions of baht. We can face this because our owners take a real interest in the building (75%+ attended the last two AGMs) and are willing to fund transparent running and extraordinary expenses.

So any questions or brickbats- I'm ready.

I have been thinking about your post ever since 3 Sept. It is wonderful that your co-owners attend AGM 75%+. What's the name of this paragon of condos? Are there any condos for sale? I want so much to find a clean, secure, safe, healthy, well run condo building.

[barkly313]

I am sorry to be brutally frank but most of the replies above are of no real value.

You can establish the quality of condo management ;

1. Ask to see the most recent audited accounts of the condominium juristic person. That is the association in Thai law which owns the structure. These accounts should be audited, though with accounting standards such as they are in Thailand, this is no absolute guarantee of accuracy. In any building catering well to expatriate owners there will be an English language copy. Use your common sense to review income and outgo, accumulated net worth, presence of reserve funds etc. Ask to see a list detailing maintenance arrears. Be careful if the developer is the major creditor or arrears are substantial/chronic.

2. Ask for a copy of the minutes of the most recent Annual General Meeting. As with the accounts, any well managed building will have these in English translation. Review this to see if key issues like financial viability, management quality, maintenance planning and the like are discussed. See also how election of board is conducted, if it is!. Many condominiums here are autocratically run by the developers as a cash cow with no real ownership input/control.

3. Ask for a copy of the insurance policy covering the building. This will likely be in Thai but check with your lawyer what is covered,who is the beneficiary, for how much and with whom. Often insurance is completely inadequate, covers only fire and is with a company even for major buildings no-one has ever heard of. Strangely such companies often pay brokerage of some substance to the "manager" which should not be done for obvious reasons re independent assessment. Thailand has many reputable brokers in Bangkok who can arrange the right policy with the financially capable insurers plus advise on coverage amount which will increase over time to cover replacement costs. Check there is 3rd party insurance also though this will be rare. Good insurance companies will also offer staff fire training.

4 See a utility bill for a condo and check the unit costs of electricity and water against those an independent householder would pay. These items should not be a "profit centre" for management.

5. Ask for a copy of the association,s land deed which of course should be in its name (e.g. "name of condo" Juristic Association). In many cases the association will own only the footprint of the building and you can have a fun park or shophouses next year on what you thought were your clubhouse grounds or gardens. This is common. One building mentioned above as an exemplar has allocated only 2.5 rai(about an acre) for its new 33 storey twin tower. Now tell me that makes sense!

6. Walk down the fire stairs as you leave. A sign of good management is that these will be completely clear, properly emergency lit etc. Check the maintenance plate in the elevators. Is the manufacturer the maintaining coy? Shoddy lift maintenance is a time bomb. Again commonsense viewing will give you an idea of overall tidiness and housekeeping quality.

All this is a bit long but based on experience. I am the Treasurer of my condominium which is, I believe, capably run by the owners. We employ our own manager and security and cleaning staff and have had most of them with us since opening 12 years ago.

We are about, with a consulting engineers assistance, to commence a full refurbishment programme which will run to millions of baht. We can face this because our owners take a real interest in the building (75%+ attended the last two AGMs) and are willing to fund transparent running and extraordinary expenses.

So any questions or brickbats- I'm ready.

We're about ready to throw the building management out of our condo but working on Plan B (self management). Can a foreigner be the building manager legitimately? I assume he can not take a salary but can recover expenses etc or maybe receive a compensation in other form? We have a couple of residents happy to take the job, with a thai staff member to control contractors etc but appreciate any feedback from others experiences.

[Tammi]

I am sorry to be brutally frank but most of the replies above are of no real value.

You can establish the quality of condo management ;

1. Ask to see the most recent audited accounts of the condominium juristic person. That is the association in Thai law which owns the structure. These accounts should be audited, though with accounting standards such as they are in Thailand, this is no absolute guarantee of accuracy. In any building catering well to expatriate owners there will be an English language copy. Use your common sense to review income and outgo, accumulated net worth, presence of reserve funds etc. Ask to see a list detailing maintenance arrears. Be careful if the developer is the major creditor or arrears are substantial/chronic.

2. Ask for a copy of the minutes of the most recent Annual General Meeting. As with the accounts, any well managed building will have these in English translation. Review this to see if key issues like financial viability, management quality, maintenance planning and the like are discussed. See also how election of board is conducted, if it is!. Many condominiums here are autocratically run by the developers as a cash cow with no real ownership input/control.

3. Ask for a copy of the insurance policy covering the building. This will likely be in Thai but check with your lawyer what is covered,who is the beneficiary, for how much and with whom. Often insurance is completely inadequate, covers only fire and is with a company even for major buildings no-one has ever heard of. Strangely such companies often pay brokerage of some substance to the "manager" which should not be done for obvious reasons re independent assessment. Thailand has many reputable brokers in Bangkok who can arrange the right policy with the financially capable insurers plus advise on coverage amount which will increase over time to cover replacement costs. Check there is 3rd party insurance also though this will be rare. Good insurance companies will also offer staff fire training.

4 See a utility bill for a condo and check the unit costs of electricity and water against those an independent householder would pay. These items should not be a "profit centre" for management.

5. Ask for a copy of the association,s land deed which of course should be in its name (e.g. "name of condo" Juristic Association). In many cases the association will own only the footprint of the building and you can have a fun park or shophouses next year on what you thought were your clubhouse grounds or gardens. This is common. One building mentioned above as an exemplar has allocated only 2.5 rai(about an acre) for its new 33 storey twin tower. Now tell me that makes sense!

6. Walk down the fire stairs as you leave. A sign of good management is that these will be completely clear, properly emergency lit etc. Check the maintenance plate in the elevators. Is the manufacturer the maintaining coy? Shoddy lift maintenance is a time bomb. Again commonsense viewing will give you an idea of overall tidiness and housekeeping quality.

All this is a bit long but based on experience. I am the Treasurer of my condominium which is, I believe, capably run by the owners. We employ our own manager and security and cleaning staff and have had most of them with us since opening 12 years ago.

We are about, with a consulting engineers assistance, to commence a full refurbishment programme which will run to millions of baht. We can face this because our owners take a real interest in the building (75%+ attended the last two AGMs) and are willing to fund transparent running and extraordinary expenses.

So any questions or brickbats- I'm ready.

We're about ready to throw the building management out of our condo but working on Plan B (self management). Can a foreigner be the building manager legitimately? I assume he can not take a salary but can recover expenses etc or maybe receive a compensation in other form? We have a couple of residents happy to take the job, with a thai staff member to control contractors etc but appreciate any feedback from others experiences.

The Condo Act does not specifically say that a farang cannot be a condo manager. But the Act does say under Section 36 that the manager will have the following powers and duties: (4) Other duties as prescribed by ministerial regulations.

I would think that under ministerial regulations that a farang can not be a manager. Ask your lawyer.

But you must remember that the co-owners shall set up a committee to supervise the management of the Condominium Juristic Person which shall have a manager who may be a natural person or a juristic person and, if the manager is a juristic person, that juristic person is to install a natural person to act as manager in place of the juristic person. (See sections 35 and 37 of the Condo Act.)

You should make absolutely sure that the committee and manager are fully conversant with the Condo Act and also with the Regulations of your condo. These Regulations are a legal document required by the Condo Act and is filed at the Land Office. I think I wrote a while ago that Jomthien Condotel have been good enough to put the English translation of the Condo Act on their web site. You can also buy a little book prepared by Mr.Tony Crossley that gives the Condo Act in both English and Thai. Tony's phone is 087 149 4364.

The Condo Act rules over the Regulations. I know of one condo where Regulations say someting different to Condo Act. That's a definite no-no.

I'm glad to see this topic being visited again. It was suggested to the Moderators that the posting by "Sattahip" be pinned. It was a good suggestion and I too would like to see it pinned, together with more recent input by me on what to look for/at in a condo before buying and which all boils down to how good the Committee and manager are.

[sxgun]

Hi sattahip, which condo do you live in?

[sattahip]

For Tammi and SXGun

I live in Sunset Heights Condo in Baan Amphur.

I am currently building a house next door to be completed next month. My condo will sadly be on the market

Cheers

Sattahip

[BlackJack]

see www.mcogjomtien.com

visit the forum and see what we are doing to turn things around