Salaries of working CM residents

[kanook]

"Restaurants/bars/hotels that charge a service fee are basically forcing customers to subsidize employee wages."

True, in those cases where the service charge is, in fact, distributed fairly to the employees.

Excellent point amexpat, this happens quite often. I have even been encouraged by ownership during an interview for a General Manager position to skim money from the gratuities as extra enticement to take the job. Most people just assume that the service charge or the 'tip' they leave in the bill fold goes to the staff. When I 'tip' in Thailand I usually leave a token amount in the tray or bill fold and then personally hand money to the service staff and if the food was exemplary and the kitchen is not too busy personally tip the kitchen as well. I avoid as many of the service charge establishments as I can.

Edited April 15, 2015 by kanook

[MaeJoMTB]

One of the strange things about expats in Thailand,

They don't see the poverty around them, and appear desperate to deny that it exists.

The truth is most of the normal Thai people in CM are earning below 15k a month, centering a discussion on the anomalies is just weird.

Can it really be to justify the money they are paying their wives?

I don't think so, but I can't think of another reason to do it.

[dave2]

re

It is in fact an unanswerable question

nahhh ... here are 4 job offers which i cant read but none of them come near the high amounts people are talking about here

dave2

ps ... one of my errr ummm errr girl friends was making 12 thousand in bangkok as a 5 year cmu degree accountant .... she doesnt do that anymore

[MaeJoMTB]

Last photo .........

Hoe-stess (hostess) 20k

Tawn Rap (greeter) 20k

Pri-tee (pretty) 30k,

wonder what their duties are and does it include tips?

(and what's the difference between a hostess and a pretty?)

Edited April 15, 2015 by MaeJoMTB

[chiang mai]

Pretty's typically pose around products, whereas a Hostess is about entertaining people.

[eyecatcher]

For the last 10 weeks I have been advertising and putting the word out for a receptionist. Offering 15k for a 48hr week plus a 5% bonus on what comes through the door. Invited 3 for interview. 2 never even turned up for interview, the 3rd phoned in and said she doesnt have time thisSunday but maybe I can come next Sunday.

A week later I had a promising lead from one of our staff; a friend of hers who has been studying English. Amazingly she turned up for interview. The interview was terminated within 2 minutes of me asking her "what is your name". Incidently the interview was attended by her friend and our staff employee who I could see was hand signalling over my shoulder.

15k is of no interest; its simply better to spend time looking for a higher paying job as there are many out there (somewhere?) or spend your time wisely and catch a falang boyfriend.

I think thats the ambition young ladies have, they want the hiso life; well good luck to them.

[MaeJoMTB]

With all due respect the salary of one door man at a 5 star hotel has virtually nothing to do with the salaries of the rest of Chiang Mai. It could involve nepotism which is a common practice in Thailand.

With all due respect, you are a muppet for posting the above. A door man (Thai) at a 5 star hotel in Chiang Mai IS part of the salaries of the rest of Chiang Mai. Look around, there are many high end hotels here. And read the topic of this thread to yourself really slow, see if you can grasp it fully.

How many high class hotels in CM, 4 .....5 ...... 10 .......20?

Compared to the number of employees in CM, 500,000 ........ 800,000 ........ 2,000,000?

Edited April 15, 2015 by MaeJoMTB

[MaeJoMTB]

You are right, no one is going to post pay stubs of the working Thais that they know, but that is no reason not to believe what they are on. I doubt my wifes cousin in the ONLY door man on 30K a month in CNX though, as one poster suggested. Then you have another one saying that its not relevant.....

How many Thais do you know?

Just this one?

What do the rest earn?

Can you see how weird you're being?

You only know one Thai, who is a doorman earning 30K ......... it isn't credible!

[onthedarkside]

A post discussing a member's business has been removed.

Forum rule 20) You will not post any member's personal information including emails, personal messages, photos or web site details.

[muskoka]

AT WHAT LEVEL ARE EARNINGS TAXED?

I do not want to start a new discussion thread for this question so I will ask here. Does anyone know how the employee income tax deductions works in Thailand. IE: in Canada annual earnings around $20,000/year or less (approx) do not get income tax deducted. Income tax starts just above that level. Anyone know how it works here? Been curious about this for a while.

Also, I know a couple Thai people who work on commission and occasionally they get big checks/payments. Are they responsible to file their earnings annually with the government? I don't think they are aware if they are supposed to, and I have been wondering if I should advise them.

[chiang mai]

AT WHAT LEVEL ARE EARNINGS TAXED?

I do not want to start a new discussion thread for this question so I will ask here. Does anyone know how the employee income tax deductions works in Thailand. IE: in Canada annual earnings around $20,000/year or less (approx) do not get income tax deducted. Income tax starts just above that level. Anyone know how it works here? Been curious about this for a while.

Also, I know a couple Thai people who work on commission and occasionally they get big checks/payments. Are they responsible to file their earnings annually with the government? I don't think they are aware if they are supposed to, and I have been wondering if I should advise them.

Thai tax tables here:

http://www.rd.go.th/publish/6045.0.html

THB 300k = 10% rising to 35% on THB 4 mill., BUT, lots of deductions to be had.

FWIW only 2% of the population pay tax through payroll deduictions.

[elektrified]

O.K. here's another factor. Many Thais make extra money in addition to what they earn by way of a salary. So instead of arguing, let's agree that the average person can make 15K on average. For example, one neighbor earns a fairly low wage of around 16K per month but she makes another 10K or so selling Allianz Life Insurance in her spare time. An aunt who is terribly lazy and only wants to work part time just to pay the utilities, buy food, pay her medical insurance, etc. (she owns her home so no rent), earns quite a bit of money each year selling purebred Poodles and Pomeranian's. Many Thais have inherited homes and earn additional money from rental incomes. Ever noticed how many Thais are queued up at the Post Office with dozens of packages to post? So many people sell stuff on Facebook, eBay, Pantip, etc. these days. My wife is always re-selling things on the Internet. She can make anywhere from 10K-40K per month depending on how hard she wants to work. So although many people may have a fairly low salary, they make up for it in other ways. With the high cost of living these days, they couldn't survive on 9K unless they live with their families as has been suggested.

[onthedarkside]

Thai tax tables here:

http://www.rd.go.th/publish/6045.0.html

THB 300k = 10% rising to 35% on THB 4 mill., BUT, lots of deductions to be had.

FWIW only 2% of the population pay tax through payroll deduictions.

2% of population sounds about correct. Fact of the matter that the 'average' salary attracts no income tax as the personal allowance and deductions more than cover all earnings, including overtime and perks.

[Sparkles]

Must be quite a few restaurant, bar,pub,coffee shop,book shop owners etc on this forum who may like to give us some relevant information on av wages rather than relying on hearsay and figures from Thai institutions. While they might be reluctant the information would be far more credible.

I know the street sweepers in our village get a max 6,000 bat a mth,based on a 6 day week, and supplement that with some gardening and watering duties for home owners who go away for a period of time.

[mamborobert]

Must be quite a few restaurant, bar,pub,coffee shop,book shop owners etc on this forum who may like to give us some relevant information on av wages rather than relying on hearsay and figures from Thai institutions. While they might be reluctant the information would be far more credible.

I know the street sweepers in our village get a max 6,000 bat a mth,based on a 6 day week, and supplement that with some gardening and watering duties for home owners who go away for a period of time.

Would not your last paragraph be the same hearsay you condemn in your first?

[onthedarkside]

Must be quite a few restaurant, bar,pub,coffee shop,book shop owners etc on this forum who may like to give us some relevant information on av wages rather than relying on hearsay and figures from Thai institutions. While they might be reluctant the information would be far more credible.

I know the street sweepers in our village get a max 6,000 bat a mth,based on a 6 day week, and supplement that with some gardening and watering duties for home owners who go away for a period of time.

So your 'street sweeper' is not getting the minimum 300 baht a day ?

[Mapguy]

Must be quite a few restaurant, bar,pub,coffee shop,book shop owners etc on this forum who may like to give us some relevant information on av wages rather than relying on hearsay and figures from Thai institutions. While they might be reluctant the information would be far more credible.

I know the street sweepers in our village get a max 6,000 bat a mth,based on a 6 day week, and supplement that with some gardening and watering duties for home owners who go away for a period of time.

Would not your last paragraph be the same hearsay you condemn in your first?

My goodness! That comment didn't advance the conversation! Short of having a sweeper take a membership in English on ThaiVisa and post a sworn affidavit as to his average monthly income, what do you expect ?!

Posters seem to be developing in their collective efforts a reasonable approach to understanding with some limited help from official statistics which can be misleading given both formal and informal economies. I also particularly appreciated the insight recently about inherited property.

[Sparkles]

Must be quite a few restaurant, bar,pub,coffee shop,book shop owners etc on this forum who may like to give us some relevant information on av wages rather than relying on hearsay and figures from Thai institutions. While they might be reluctant the information would be far more credible.

I know the street sweepers in our village get a max 6,000 bat a mth,based on a 6 day week, and supplement that with some gardening and watering duties for home owners who go away for a period of time.

So your 'street sweeper' is not getting the minimum 300 baht a day ?

Well only repeating the figure that was given to us directly by a worker ( did not come from a third party) So not hearsay, hardly my cousins, sister reported that.... etc etc.

Many residents in our village often give gifts of food or small amounts of cash as we appreciate the work they do. The 300 baht so called min wage I doubt very much is across the board but I repeat how does officialdom monitor exactly what is being paid is unless they had an army of investigators.

[Happy Grumpy]

MaeJoMTB:

My moobaan pays it's gardeners and sweepers 150bht a day

So your mooban is underpaying the workers -- only half of the government-mandated minimum day wage of 300 baht.

That's either scandalous or shrewd management. . . .

Er, no.

They likely have full-time accommodation provided for.

So minimum wage is non-applicable.

Same as cleaning staff in schools etc. They get a shack out the back and free food, so minimum wage is N/A.

[Happy Grumpy]

Must be quite a few restaurant, bar,pub,coffee shop,book shop owners etc on this forum who may like to give us some relevant information on av wages rather than relying on hearsay and figures from Thai institutions. While they might be reluctant the information would be far more credible.

I know the street sweepers in our village get a max 6,000 bat a mth,based on a 6 day week, and supplement that with some gardening and watering duties for home owners who go away for a period of time.

So your 'street sweeper' is not getting the minimum 300 baht a day ?

The minimum wage is non-applicable if full-time accommodation is provided.

[maichai40]

"Unfortunately for the Thai in CM your figures about middle class are highly optimistic, not even in BKK they get so much."

Winnie was close. Perhaps 10-20% high but close.

Some of the problems with these statistics is confusing joint family income with individual salaries.

When at stores like Global, Lotus, Etc with 20 workers sitting around talking, they aren't paying them a lot. 9-12k a month is a lot when 80% of their time isn't spent working.

Store clerks, Laborers, cleaning staff, farm workers still make less than 9k baht a month. Many that I know only earn about 6k a month as they don't work every day. However, with 2-3 family members working to support themselves they do better.

For skilled workers as Winnie claimed it might be closer to 12k baht a month base but with overtime and private work 15k is doable for most mechanics, chefs, bank tellers,

Nurses (vary greatly from degree and title I have seen positions from as low as 9k up to 45k)

Office workers make around 12-15k a month, for more middle management positions, team leaders etc 20-25k isn't unrealistic. Bank Tellers, and workers with more experience or those that have been with a company for a long time would be in this category also.

Engineers, Doctors, Lawyers, Business Owners, can be all over the place. Some making as low as 30k baht a month to those with private clinics, practices earning 100k+ a month.

25k-70k is middle class as Winnie stated. The 70k a month is Upper Middle Class but usually from combined income. They cannot be considered wealthy but they live a very good life and can afford live in maids and usually send their kids to 2nd tier schools.

Overall, I found Winnies estimates to be accurate. It was also a well thought out and logically placed argument.

MaiChai, Your one line quip offered nothing. You did not back up any statement.

I do wish that posters here would learn to read Thai and just look at job ads rather than only using their wive's personal experience and her friends to make judgement.

Hi Zeichen, here is my back up, sorry i didn't reply before.

And yes the following figures are suggested exactly by my wife, which is a local with many friends also local. Who better than her can give the right ideas of salaries? A foreigner?

The following are people with about 5 to 10 years in their job and all refers about Chiang Mai only(this is what we are talking about right?), overtime is usually paid 60 to 80 baht/hour.

- a nurse in state hospital:12.000 base salary + overtime

- factory worker: 10.000 + overtime

- executive secretary of government hospital boss: 22.000 (with master degree)

- manager of "Dairy Queen" for a large part of CM area, 25.000 (sometimes has small bonus but no paid overtime)

- worker (english speaking) in luxury brand shop in Central Festival 10.000 + commission (around 2.500/month average)

- KFC worker, 11.000 month

- young lawyer working in boss office and law court: 8.000 fix + commission on cases (usually makes around 15.000-18.000 all in)

- hotel receptionist: 10.000 + overtime (not guesthouse)

- young doctor at private hospital: 20.000 + commission

- bank teller : 14.000 + some bonuses

this is just an example.

In my previous post i only said (perhaps you need to re-read it) that what WTK say about middle class is in my opinion wrong, for the simple fact that the job he listed as middle class are upper class in Thailand (spcially in CM with the low salaries here). Middle class here is the bank teller not the lawyer or the doctor....the rest seems accurate to me.

Now Zeinich i wait your back up, not the "feelings" of a foreigner and tell us also where did you get it.

Bye

[elektrified]

Hi Zeichen, here is my back up, sorry i didn't reply before.

And yes the following figures are suggested exactly by my wife, which is a local with many friends also local. Who better than her can give the right ideas of salaries? A foreigner?

The following are people with about 5 to 10 years in their job and all refers about Chiang Mai only(this is what we are talking about right?), overtime is usually paid 60 to 80 baht/hour.

- a nurse in state hospital:12.000 base salary + overtime

- factory worker: 10.000 + overtime

- executive secretary of government hospital boss: 22.000 (with master degree)

- manager of "Dairy Queen" for a large part of CM area, 25.000 (sometimes has small bonus but no paid overtime)

- worker (english speaking) in luxury brand shop in Central Festival 10.000 + commission (around 2.500/month average)

- KFC worker, 11.000 month

- young lawyer working in boss office and law court: 8.000 fix + commission on cases (usually makes around 15.000-18.000 all in)

- hotel receptionist: 10.000 + overtime (not guesthouse)

- young doctor at private hospital: 20.000 + commission

- bank teller : 14.000 + some bonuses

this is just an example.

In my previous post i only said (perhaps you need to re-read it) that what WTK say about middle class is in my opinion wrong, for the simple fact that the job he listed as middle class are upper class in Thailand (spcially in CM with the low salaries here). Middle class here is the bank teller not the lawyer or the doctor....the rest seems accurate to me.

WTK stated as follows: " Once you get into the true middle class then that's 25,000 - 70,000 or so. That also includes middle management in companies, etc. Above that is people running successful businesses, doctors, lawyers and so on. Then you're pushing 100K for Chiang Mai. (More in Bangkok). And then the there's the people who are truly wealthy, owning companies, land and other assets and getting lots of income from that. The sky is the limit there."

He never said people running successful businesses, doctors, lawyers, etc. are middle-class.

[maichai40]

Hi Zeichen, here is my back up, sorry i didn't reply before.

And yes the following figures are suggested exactly by my wife, which is a local with many friends also local. Who better than her can give the right ideas of salaries? A foreigner?

The following are people with about 5 to 10 years in their job and all refers about Chiang Mai only(this is what we are talking about right?), overtime is usually paid 60 to 80 baht/hour.

- a nurse in state hospital:12.000 base salary + overtime

- factory worker: 10.000 + overtime

- executive secretary of government hospital boss: 22.000 (with master degree)

- manager of "Dairy Queen" for a large part of CM area, 25.000 (sometimes has small bonus but no paid overtime)

- worker (english speaking) in luxury brand shop in Central Festival 10.000 + commission (around 2.500/month average)

- KFC worker, 11.000 month

- young lawyer working in boss office and law court: 8.000 fix + commission on cases (usually makes around 15.000-18.000 all in)

- hotel receptionist: 10.000 + overtime (not guesthouse)

- young doctor at private hospital: 20.000 + commission

- bank teller : 14.000 + some bonuses

this is just an example.

In my previous post i only said (perhaps you need to re-read it) that what WTK say about middle class is in my opinion wrong, for the simple fact that the job he listed as middle class are upper class in Thailand (spcially in CM with the low salaries here). Middle class here is the bank teller not the lawyer or the doctor....the rest seems accurate to me.

WTK stated as follows: " Once you get into the true middle class then that's 25,000 - 70,000 or so. That also includes middle management in companies, etc. Above that is people running successful businesses, doctors, lawyers and so on. Then you're pushing 100K for Chiang Mai. (More in Bangkok). And then the there's the people who are truly wealthy, owning companies, land and other assets and getting lots of income from that. The sky is the limit there."

He never said people running successful businesses, doctors, lawyers, etc. are middle-class.

Yes you are right, my mistake. Still don't understand the "true middle class" at 25k-70k, Middle class in europe have those salaries (net)

[onthedarkside]

Yes you are right, my mistake. Still don't understand the "true middle class" at 25k-70k, Middle class in europe have those salaries (net)

Posters are talking about 25 - 70K baht per month. You really think that's middle class European income per month ? That's 735 - 2,050 Euros per month.

[Saan]

"Unfortunately for the Thai in CM your figures about middle class are highly optimistic, not even in BKK they get so much."

Winnie was close. Perhaps 10-20% high but close.

Some of the problems with these statistics is confusing joint family income with individual salaries.

When at stores like Global, Lotus, Etc with 20 workers sitting around talking, they aren't paying them a lot. 9-12k a month is a lot when 80% of their time isn't spent working.

Store clerks, Laborers, cleaning staff, farm workers still make less than 9k baht a month. Many that I know only earn about 6k a month as they don't work every day. However, with 2-3 family members working to support themselves they do better.

For skilled workers as Winnie claimed it might be closer to 12k baht a month base but with overtime and private work 15k is doable for most mechanics, chefs, bank tellers,

Nurses (vary greatly from degree and title I have seen positions from as low as 9k up to 45k)

Office workers make around 12-15k a month, for more middle management positions, team leaders etc 20-25k isn't unrealistic. Bank Tellers, and workers with more experience or those that have been with a company for a long time would be in this category also.

Engineers, Doctors, Lawyers, Business Owners, can be all over the place. Some making as low as 30k baht a month to those with private clinics, practices earning 100k+ a month.

25k-70k is middle class as Winnie stated. The 70k a month is Upper Middle Class but usually from combined income. They cannot be considered wealthy but they live a very good life and can afford live in maids and usually send their kids to 2nd tier schools.

Overall, I found Winnies estimates to be accurate. It was also a well thought out and logically placed argument.

MaiChai, Your one line quip offered nothing. You did not back up any statement.

I do wish that posters here would learn to read Thai and just look at job ads rather than only using their wive's personal experience and her friends to make judgement.

Hi Zeichen, here is my back up, sorry i didn't reply before.

And yes the following figures are suggested exactly by my wife, which is a local with many friends also local. Who better than her can give the right ideas of salaries? A foreigner?

The following are people with about 5 to 10 years in their job and all refers about Chiang Mai only(this is what we are talking about right?), overtime is usually paid 60 to 80 baht/hour.

- a nurse in state hospital:12.000 base salary + overtime

- factory worker: 10.000 + overtime

- executive secretary of government hospital boss: 22.000 (with master degree)

- manager of "Dairy Queen" for a large part of CM area, 25.000 (sometimes has small bonus but no paid overtime)

- worker (english speaking) in luxury brand shop in Central Festival 10.000 + commission (around 2.500/month average)

- KFC worker, 11.000 month

- young lawyer working in boss office and law court: 8.000 fix + commission on cases (usually makes around 15.000-18.000 all in)

- hotel receptionist: 10.000 + overtime (not guesthouse)

- young doctor at private hospital: 20.000 + commission

- bank teller : 14.000 + some bonuses

this is just an example.

In my previous post i only said (perhaps you need to re-read it) that what WTK say about middle class is in my opinion wrong, for the simple fact that the job he listed as middle class are upper class in Thailand (spcially in CM with the low salaries here). Middle class here is the bank teller not the lawyer or the doctor....the rest seems accurate to me.

Now Zeinich i wait your back up, not the "feelings" of a foreigner and tell us also where did you get it.

Bye

Those figures are much more in line with what I know and with what I presume are salaries that I personally don't know.

As to nurses overtime I was a little perturbed during a recent stay in hospital that the nurse looking after me was working double shifts, day after day, leaving her little time for sleep. The shifts would certainly have boosted her salary.

[maichai40]

Yes you are right, my mistake. Still don't understand the "true middle class" at 25k-70k, Middle class in europe have those salaries (net)

Posters are talking about 25 - 70K baht per month. You really think that's middle class European income per month ?

Yes i do. Maybe you forget the baht is at 34, so let's say 45-50k month (the middle of the fork shown 25-70) is about 1.300-1.400 euro month, of course not the middle class of Switzerland and much more than the middle class in Romania. France, Spain Italy etc. are at that level for what i mean middle class (govt worker with 10 years in the job).

[zeichen]

1.300-1.400 euro month, of course not the middle class of Switzerland and much more than the middle class in Romania. France, Spain Italy etc

I am sorry, if you think that 15k euros a year is middle class for France Spain and Italy, you are either way out of touch or just not carefully reading.

People earning less than 15k baht a month in Thailand are not middle class. Some may live a middle class lifestyle if their family has given them house, car, etc, but to support a family on 15k baht a month leaves little for comforts.

I don't argue your wage lists. I will argue that they are middle class. Factory workers are not middle class. Workers at convenience stores, fast food are not middle class.

Managers and business owners would most likely be though.

"

- a nurse in state hospital:12.000 base salary + overtime"

Again, nurse salaries vary greatly from as low as 9k up to 40k+. Depends on title. experience, degree, etc. Not all nurses are actually nurses. If a nurse is only making 12k baht a month, she is not middle class.

"- young doctor at private hospital: 20.000 + commission"

Young or inexperienced? Doctors need to do several years of intern and residency before they actually make money. Doctors, dentists etc don't start out with high salaries but within 5-10 years can make a very good living.

Even in the US, when a doctor is first starting out as a resident or intern, they have huge amounts of debt and earn very little. Most struggle for their fist 4-5 years and are barely middle class but eventually most doctors other than GP end up being in the wealthier columns. Just like in Thailand.

Now I am not sure if you misspelled my name on purpose or just a typo.

"and yes the following figures are suggested exactly by my wife, which is a local with many friends also local. Who better than her can give the right ideas of salaries? A foreigner?"

Though I agree with your wife's assessment, it shouldn't matter if a person is a local or not. My wife doesn't know crap about Thailand nor what people earn. I on the other hand keep current by reading job ads and seeing what is out there. I don't get my information second hand, or a friend of a friend earns this...

Remember that it is still just her opinion or assumption and not fact unless she actually checked with the tax office, looks at company websites and sees what their pay levels are, reads people's pay stubs or sees their contracts.

I give semi annual seminars teaching job placement strategies, resume/CV writing so I try to keep up to date with what jobs are paying. I see 100's of contracts a year from my former students with questions on how to negotiate things.

Vibe, I don't think that anyone thinks that you are misleading, but since it has been proven that managers at Shangrila are making 30-35k, doesn't seem that perhaps your inlaw's job title is a little more than doorman. Perhaps equivalent to a concierge? That would make sense. I know that the Holiday inn doesn't pay their doormen that much, they are on 12k +tips. I would assume that most of the staff there would be on relatively equal salary.

Also the guy that opens the door at Shangrila cannot speak English so I doubt that is your inlaw. The guy that wears the suit standing behind him does which is the concierge.

[MartinBKK]

I think you also need to factor in the importance of status and face here etc also. If you ask a Thai, even one you consider to be a very close friend what their salary is, it is likely you will not be receiving the honest truth and they will probably give you a slightly higher figure than is the reality.

Edited April 16, 2015 by MartinBKK

[lostoday]

Must be quite a few restaurant, bar,pub,coffee shop,book shop owners etc on this forum who may like to give us some relevant information on av wages rather than relying on hearsay and figures from Thai institutions. While they might be reluctant the information would be far more credible.

I know the street sweepers in our village get a max 6,000 bat a mth,based on a 6 day week, and supplement that with some gardening and watering duties for home owners who go away for a period of time.

So your 'street sweeper' is not getting the minimum 300 baht a day ?

The minimum wage is non-applicable if full-time accommodation is provided.

Not true.

[MaeJoMTB]

1.300-1.400 euro month, of course not the middle class of Switzerland and much more than the middle class in Romania. France, Spain Italy etc

I am sorry, if you think that 15k euros a year is middle class for France Spain and Italy, you are either way out of touch or just not carefully reading.

People earning less than 15k baht a month in Thailand are not middle class. Some may live a middle class lifestyle if their family has given them house, car, etc, but to support a family on 15k baht a month leaves little for comforts.

I don't argue your wage lists. I will argue that they are middle class. Factory workers are not middle class. Workers at convenience stores, fast food are not middle class.

If you are American middle class = well paid.

If you are from Europe middle class = degree (or management).

As an English person, I consider those with a degree in CM are middle class, and most of them are getting paid around 15k.

Generally the Thai households I know have at least two wage earners with degrees, giving a household income of around 30k.

For those of you talking about Europe, currently unemployment in Spain is 25% (Greece and Cyprus higher), so there appear to be a lot of middle class earning nothing at all. (You don't lose your degree or social status when you become unemployed, just your income)

As for the majority of workers in the hotel industry in CM (of which there are many), they are earning 6-9k a month, even the ones in the 5 star hotels (cooks, porters, maids). Pointing out one that gets 30k for being a doorman then citing that as the average hotel staff wage is just completely barmy.

Edited April 16, 2015 by MaeJoMTB