Maize and Rotational Crops

kickstart · March 2, 2017

On ‎24‎/‎2‎/‎2560 at 10:50 AM, farmerjo said:

Hi CLW,

Your welcome to share here if you like,i'm sure there are a lot of interested people in this subject.Basically been trying to do the same for quite a few years now.

My initial process was to take out the levi's and deep plow but found there was still that crust below causing waterlogging.

Then about 3 years ago decided my best approach would be to go minimum tillage and use a combination of deep ripping and gypsum to open up the soil and leave whatever residue on top as mulch to break down slowly and protect the top layer.Have just started to see some benefits recently with the land staying green right up till about two weeks ago(before it would be dead for 4 months),admittingly we did have an inch of rain mid january to freshen things up but my rainfall records show there's a fifty percent chance of that.Living soil.Still my biggest problem is weed control which i will continue to work on but have proven i could grown a corn crop on 10 inches of rainfall so it's finding that balance of retaining the right amount of moisture in the land.For later in the season when the bigger rains come more regularly i plan to put in a series of contours so any excess water is removed quickly from the field.There are many different methods for drainage,contours,y salt trenches,tiling,mole ploughing etc so it's what suits your budget and if you don't have one, i say just grow rice.

Drainage if I could drain my land it would make land into a different farm ,being an ex rice farm ,you are right ,deep ploughing does not work ,tried it myself to no avail , you need a subsoil to break that pan .

Working on farms in the uk a lot of the fields had been drained ,back in the days when you could get government subsidies ,up to 50-60% to do the job, nearly all the schemes had a big ditch running down one or two sides of the field too take the drainage water away .

But here in Thailand no ditches to take the water away, the only ditch near me is the council one at the front of my house ,I have looked into ways of draining some of my land ,one TV member has even found a supplier of plastic French drains ,but the falls are not right ,and I would have to get 360 backhoe in to do all the trench work for the pipes .way out of my budget ,but the biggest problem is getting all that water away from the land ,which is a must ,as you say when the main rains come ,ie like 100 mm in about 4 days we had last year .

For me a mole plough would work best ,I think .on some bits of land a sub soiler has improved the drainage .

CLW · March 2, 2017

Hi CLW,
Your welcome to share here if you like,i'm sure there are a lot of interested people in this subject.Basically been trying to do the same for quite a few years now.
My initial process was to take out the levi's and deep plow but found there was still that crust below causing waterlogging.
Then about 3 years ago decided my best approach would be to go minimum tillage and use a combination of deep ripping and gypsum to open up the soil and leave whatever residue on top as mulch to break down slowly and protect the top layer.Have just started to see some benefits recently with the land staying green right up till about two weeks ago(before it would be dead for 4 months),admittingly we did have an inch of rain mid january to freshen things up but my rainfall records show there's a fifty percent chance of that.Living soil.Still my biggest problem is weed control which i will continue to work on but have proven i could grown a corn crop on 10 inches of rainfall so it's finding that balance of retaining the right amount of moisture in the land.For later in the season when the bigger rains come more regularly i plan to put in a series of contours so any excess water is removed quickly from the field.There are many different methods for drainage,contours,y salt trenches,tiling,mole ploughing etc so it's what suits your budget and if you don't have one, i say just grow rice.

This research is about using Cattail (Typha), Common Reed (Phragmites australis) and Giant Cane (Arundo) as biomass material for gasification.
Due to their nature of the three plants they should be able to grow well in rice paddies.
From the review, Arundo seems to have the highest potential however the downside is you need to propagate it with rhizomes, planting in the field.
The two others can use seeds.
So much for the theory.
I just started with the preparations for the experimental setup.

farmerjo · March 2, 2017

Sounds promising,don't forget the land and plant maintenance on the larger scale.

As Thailand moves towards more mechanical traffic.

wayned · April 7, 2017

It's been over a month since anyone posted so I thought tat I would wake everyone up!!

The sugar cane cutting is nearing completion .The few stands left will be used for planting after Songkran. We have finished harvesting the few fields of Sunflowers that were planted after the last corn harvest. The plants and flowers were very small and the yields low mainly due to the wet and cool weather when trey were planted.

Most farmers are spreading chicken house sweepings and preparing the land for the next corn planting which will hopefully be the end of this month or the beginning of May if the rain comes, but it could be as late as 1 July as it was last year due to the lack of water.

I'm still buying parts for the combines and coordinating repairs, but I've turned over the farming over to the BIL including terminating the financial backing, other than equipment upkeep and repairs, to the BIL since I haven't been realizing any income the operations since my wife died. There's no goesouta coming my direction so there's no goesinta!!!

I've been puttering around the house do all of the jobs that I wanted to do for the past years as I'm not supposed to be walking much after the two surgery's that I have had on my feet since November with another scheduled for the 27th of this month.. I'm actually doing quite well now but the climbing on the monsters and walking the fields is over, but I must admit the hammock is boring at times!

farmerjo · April 7, 2017

Nice to hear Wayned.

I've just finished today my 1st chemical knockdown,glysophate,2-4d and cypermethryn.

Will give it a week to 10 days to see where i've missed and how it's breaking down.

Given that i will be direct drilling i will most likely hit it again prior to seeding with a paraquat/attrazine mix.

So if i can ask for 3 inches of rain over songkran,that would be lovely.

I'm keen to make a roller/crimper to go on front of tractor.The normal size diameter is 400mm pipe but the biggest i can get locally is 200mm so will head to town monday and see what i can have engineered thai style.

wayned · April 7, 2017

Aren't pipes like resistors? If you hook two 200mm pieces together in series don't you end up with 400mm? As you can see if I haven't lost it already I'm in the process! I've never seen one here, but I haven't really looked. Good luck with your Thai engineering on Monday, I'd like to be a fly on the wall and listen to you try to explain what you want to the metal basher!

kickstart · April 7, 2017

8 hours ago, farmerjo said:

Nice to hear Wayned.

I've just finished today my 1st chemical knockdown,glysophate,2-4d and cypermethryn.

Will give it a week to 10 days to see where i've missed and how it's breaking down.

Given that i will be direct drilling i will most likely hit it again prior to seeding with a paraquat/attrazine mix.

So if i can ask for 3 inches of rain over songkran,that would be lovely.

I'm keen to make a roller/crimper to go on front of tractor.The normal size diameter is 400mm pipe but the biggest i can get locally is 200mm so will head to town monday and see what i can have engineered thai style.

17

Hi FJ

Been thinking liked Wayned, been a bit quiet for a while, for your 400 mm pipe try your local scrap yard or your local recycling center I am always buying steel from them there will be in KK somewhere, biggest problem will be finding a piece the right length, if it is to long it can be cut to length , the odd bit kept back for a rainy day ? one local yard charges 20 baht /kg, our big one in Lopburi , Chines owned, and about the richest business in town , charge 25 bart/kg, it still works out a lot cheaper than buying new steel .

Or by a piece of plate steel and have it bent into pipe shape we have 2 company's near here that make the steel water towers, at this time they are certainly not out of work , they will have a set rollers and will soon bend you a piece of steel.

farmerjo · April 10, 2017

Well back from town and the roller/crimper has been filed in the to hard basket for now.

This morning i printed out drawings of the Rodale machine and thought best plan of attack was to take it to my local bloke who could either fabricate it or sub contract out as long as it was made in 2 weeks.However keen he was the word songkran and holidays kept popping into the equation making it a mid may finish.

On the way home home stopped and bought some 339 variety corn.

Ouch,works out to 640 baht/rai for hybrid seed this season and on the pin up board they were only offering 6.3 baht/kilo 14 percent moisture which is very low price for this time of year from what i've seen in the past.

To add fuel to the fire as we were leaving the sales girl said keep the receipt in case it doesn't grow well so the seed company can come and look.

Not the sort of confidence i was looking for to get off to a good start.

On a brighter note the chemical knockdown is taking effect and i still have plenty of paw tueng(sunn hemp)seed, pumkin seeds and 60 bags of 16-16-8+9s (670 baht/50kg) in the shed to mix and match the start of the season.

kickstart · April 11, 2017

Pac-Tee-Ung. mid day brake , cleaning the drill land wheel .after about 13 mm of rain over the past week this guy has dicided to drill his maize crop , land being black has held on to the water , and is still a bit on the wet side .

Both these drills are fairly new ,why they did not buy disc culters drills, these old strait bar culters are passed they use now , can not be that more expensive ,or another case of things change slowly in LOS.

I would have said to early to drill maize , will end up as a crop to be sold , or as cattle feed when it gets 3 foot tall and starts to die back , due to lack of water , test of time will tell.

The verity was Syngenta s6248

kickstart · April 14, 2017

On 11/04/2017 at 9:12 PM, kickstart said:

Pac-Tee-Ung. mid day brake , cleaning the drill land wheel .after about 13 mm of rain over the past week this guy has dicided to drill his maize crop , land being black has held on to the water , and is still a bit on the wet side .

Both these drills are fairly new ,why they did not buy disc culters drills, these old strait bar culters are passed they use now , can not be that more expensive ,or another case of things change slowly in LOS.

I would have said to early to drill maize , will end up as a crop to be sold , or as cattle feed when it gets 3 foot tall and starts to die back , due to lack of water , test of time will tell.

The verity was Syngenta s6248

43

This old boy will be haveing a glass or two of whiskey this evening, he drilled this corn last sunday ,with the wind and sun this week , I would say it was getting a bit stressed, no rain , this afternoon we had 9 mm of rain , that will help it on its way .

farmerjo · April 15, 2017

Hi KS,

Up here,130 kms west of Khon Kaen we have had 40mm over songkran and still raining.

Should be good to start planting the following week,just waiting to see if any more weed germinations after the rain.

Looking like the best start to the season since 2008.

JungleBiker · April 15, 2017

On 4/7/2017 at 1:19 PM, farmerjo said:

I've just finished today my 1st chemical knockdown,glysophate,2-4d and cypermethryn.

3

Hi FJ, Just wondering what's the cypermethrin for? I guess you know' it's an insecticide.

JungleBiker · April 15, 2017

On 4/7/2017 at 1:19 PM, farmerjo said:

I'm keen to make a roller/crimper to go on front of tractor.The normal size diameter is 400mm pipe but the biggest i can get locally is 200mm so will head to town monday and see what i can have engineered thai style.

Bigger than 40cm diameter but I wonder if you could weld say 2 or 3 oil barrels together? Weld some wheels to the ends?

farmerjo · April 15, 2017

1 hour ago, JungleBiker said:

Hi FJ, Just wondering what's the cypermethrin for? I guess you know' it's an insecticide.

Hi JB,

Nice to hear from you again and hope things are well.

The cypermethryn is for anything that moves,mainly caterpillars,cutworms,etc and hopefully it may sort out some mites as well.I have a build up of numbers over the years since going no-till and haven't sprayed for bugs before using this system.I'm hoping the one application will be enough with just a border spray once the crop is established.

farmerjo · April 15, 2017

1 hour ago, JungleBiker said:

Bigger than 40cm diameter but I wonder if you could weld say 2 or 3 oil barrels together? Weld some wheels to the ends?

I will just leave it for now as having done a chemical knockdown the crimping to kill the weeds isn't so important.It was more to see my rows when seeding but have added a disc marker to sort that out if the gps (satelites) go out(which it does frequently here in Thailand).

Will eventually get a proper roller/crimper made to trial rolling sunn hemp later in the year for the dry season crop.

JungleBiker · April 16, 2017

On 4/15/2017 at 0:10 PM, farmerjo said:

if the gps (satelites) go out(which it does frequently here in Thailand).

Hi FJ, Thanks for your replies. I'm fine thanks.

I didn't know anyone here in this forum had a GPS in their tractor. I just searched and see you first mentioned having one back in 2015!

I'm also interested in a GPS guidance system and so far I fancy this one from the UK: https://agricision.co.uk

combined with a basic model iPad with 9.7 inch screen because I think I'd struggle to see the Trimble's 11cm screen!

Do you know which satellite systems cover Thailand... does your Trimble pick up signals from both GPS and GLONASS? I understand that if the device can pick up signals form both the US and Russian systems of satellites the accuracy will be much better.

JungleBiker · April 17, 2017

Hi FJ,

I just did some googling and is appears that Thailand has GLONASS coverage about 99% of the time (similar to Russia):

http://www.oxts.com/technical-notes/what-does-glonass-add-2/

Combining GPS and GLONASS improves precison by about 15% compared with GPS alone: see slide 8 here

I tried to find out if the Trimble EZ Guide 250 receives GLONASS. It's not mentioned in the following data sheet so I assume it doesn't: http://trl.trimble.com/docushare/dsweb/Get/Document-499549/022503-1115-UK_EZ_Guide250_DS_MarketSmart_A4_0713_LR.pdf

The trimble brochure does mention SBAS (Satellite-Based Augmentation System): http://construction.trimble.com/products-and-solutions/satellite-based-augmentation-system-sbas

It says SBAS systems in place are WAAS (USA), EGNOS (Europe), GAGAN (India) and MSAS (Japan) which deliver corrections at no cost for sub-meter positioning. (By the way, I found a handy "how to guide" for the trimble at New Hollands website: http://www.newhollandplm.com/upload/8bb1a24a-55e1-4cf3-88a9-719035fda35fA-02 - EZ-Guide 250 How to Guide.pdf)

This youtube published May 2016 says there will be 2 more SBAS systems in Russia and China (I don't know when)...

The research presented in the above video concluded that "SBAS corrections are useful to Thailand".

Note that in the above video they are talking about absolute accuracy whereas when working with something like an EZ Guide it is pass-to-pass accuracy that counts e.g. to reduce overlaps/gaps.

You probably know that in USA/Europe/etc many farmers are now using guidance and steering systems based on RTK (Real Time Kinematics) that are accurate to 1 - 2cm but the required equipment is much more expensive than an EZ Guide (tens of thousands of dollars). However, there are some new RTK systems coming into the market that are much cheaper, e.g.

http://effectivefarmer.com/?utm_source=site_mobi&utm_campaign=pre_order_fieldbee&utm_medium=banner&utm_content=en#block11

https://reachrs.emlid.com

Some guys are developing their own home-made systems, e.g.

http://www.thecombineforum.com/forums/31-technology/279889-rtk-budget-2.html

farmerjo · April 18, 2017

On 16/04/2017 at 9:46 PM, JungleBiker said:

Hi FJ, Thanks for your replies. I'm fine thanks.

I didn't know anyone here in this forum had a GPS in their tractor. I just searched and see you first mentioned having one back in 2015!

I'm also interested in a GPS guidance system and so far I fancy this one from the UK: https://agricision.co.uk

combined with a basic model iPad with 9.7 inch screen because I think I'd struggle to see the Trimble's 11cm screen!

Do you know which satellite systems cover Thailand... does your Trimble pick up signals from both GPS and GLONASS? I understand that if the device can pick up signals form both the US and Russian systems of satellites the accuracy will be much better.

Hi JB,

My old version firmware has waas and egnos,playing around the other day i could detect it picking up 8 satelites but not sure which ones they are.

Crop Tech Asia who are the Trimble distributors here have just sent me the latest firmware upgrade to version 3.10 which will show the SBAS settings,just waiting for a mate to pick me up a new usb so i can download it into the screen.

When i bought it i had to upgrade to ag-15 antenna as they said the normal patch antenna was not strong enough with all the terrain here in Thailand.

Will let you know how i get on once installed.

farmerjo · April 18, 2017

Today i installed the new firmware.

Doesn't show gagan and msas after the upgrade with SBAS.

I could not get it to work,it's picking up 9 satellites giving speed and gps co-ordinates on moniter but even on the lowest setting not able to have a strong enough satellite signal.(only 2 bars when minimum of 3 required)

Will get in touch with the supplier and see what fine tuning is required.Before the upgrade the signal was a little hit and miss.(today was a bit overcast with a few showers of rain)

farmerjo · April 29, 2017

Planted corn into no moisture on the 20th then had 30mm on the 24th.

Starting to germinate now.Just 15 rai as the weather has been extreme,will continue planting next week.

Has anyone tried a nicosulfron/attrazine mix as a post emergent application?

Thought i would show this as well.My brothers son has bought a drone to take photo's.

I could see this being handy here to moniter dense crops or if nothing else makes for a good picture on the wall in the house.

kickstart · April 30, 2017

The same crop from post 699, now growing, still not the best of crops , but it went a week without any rain and it was hot , but with 56 mm of rain in the past 4 days ,and on black land it should soon pick up .

This is only one of a few crops of maize in our area, one time of day the first sign of rain and all the corn drills are out in force .but now farmers are getting a bit weary , with 2 years ago 90% lost an entire first crop ,and last year with prices being so low farmers are not risking losing a crop ,but with the recent rains drills will be out this week . looking at my old records from when we grew maize it was always the 2 ed - 3 ed week of May before we drilled any maize ,evon then one year we lost 40 rie ,no rain

But on the other side , we got a card last week for a Ngang- Boo-ut , the big do the day before a young man becomes a monk , just at the end of our soi , a small dairy farm, they were going to have the party in a field opposite the farm ,the field just being an ex-rice paddy, on black land to ,but ith all this rain 8-900 people on this wet field would turned it in to a rice field ,so they did it the Thai way , and shut our local road ,and put all the tables on the road ,and thanks to the good general and co , it is a nice new road to ,but a road being narrow and a 110 tables , we were 200 yards from the stage at the back and we could not see bugger all of the goings on's ,but it was a good evening, good food , and it was hot for a change .

farmerjo · May 2, 2017

Went for a ride up back of land today,haven't been for a while and had forgot the neighbour planted corn at songkran.

Next to it he has put in what looks like a solar pump to storage tanks.Not sure how effective that amount of storage would be of benefit but 10 points for trying.

wayned · May 3, 2017

Over the last 10 days we have had three afternoon thundershowers. All of the corn fields are ready for planting, but nobody has taken a chance and planted. In the meantime the existing sugar cane fields have all been cultivated and the new ones planted.

It feels like it wants to rain, the humidity is currently 84% but the only water that is dripping is from my body.

It's just a matter of who will roll the dice first then others will follow!

farmerjo · May 5, 2017

To hot to be doing much here so be plottering in the shed making a prototype in row shield sprayer so i can use paraquat post emergent rather than selective herbicides.

CLW · May 9, 2017

Will Sunn Hemp re-grow after cutting at a certain height or die?

Michael Hare · May 9, 2017

2 hours ago, CLW said:

Will Sunn Hemp re-grow after cutting at a certain height or die?

Sunn hemp is an annual species. If one cuts it low, to about 10-20 cm above ground level, it will not regrow. Dies. If it is cut high, at about 50-60 cm above ground level, it will regrow back. I use the high cutting height in wet season planted seed crops to prevent lodging.

CLW · May 9, 2017

Sunn hemp is an annual species. If one cuts it low, to about 10-20 cm above ground level, it will not regrow. Dies. If it is cut high, at about 50-60 cm above ground level, it will regrow back. I use the high cutting height in wet season planted seed crops to prevent lodging.

Thank you!

farmerjo · May 9, 2017

Here's a simple guide to growing although not in Thailand.

http://www.agronomy.com.au/pdf/sunnhemp.pdf

Michael Hare · May 10, 2017

9 hours ago, farmerjo said:

Here's a simple guide to growing although not in Thailand.

http://www.agronomy.com.au/pdf/sunnhemp.pdf

At my seed company, Ubon Forage Seeds http://www.ubonforageseeds.com/en/ we produce and sell crotalaria seed to the USA and Spain. We call the Thai variety Crescent Sunn.

http://www.tropseeds.com/crotalaria-juncea-sunn-hemp-grass-seed/

We buy the seed from contracted farmers in Sisaket, Mahasarakham and Ubon provinces. The quality has to be high with a miniumum germination of 85%, purity of 99.5%, no weed seeds, no other crop seeds, no rice seed. Farmers have to clean the seed themselves.

This year we will also conduct trials on the Trop Sunn cultivar from Hawaii. The problem with Crescent Sunn is that it is very variable.

farmerjo · May 10, 2017

22 minutes ago, Michael Hare said:

At my seed company, Ubon Forage Seeds http://www.ubonforageseeds.com/en/ we produce and sell crotalaria seed to the USA and Spain. We call the Thai variety Crescent Sunn.

http://www.tropseeds.com/crotalaria-juncea-sunn-hemp-grass-seed/

We buy the seed from contracted farmers in Sisaket, Mahasarakham and Ubon provinces. The quality has to be high with a miniumum germination of 85%, purity of 99.5%, no weed seeds, no other crop seeds, no rice seed. Farmers have to clean the seed themselves.

This year we will also conduct trials on the Trop Sunn cultivar from Hawaii. The problem with Crescent Sunn is that it is very variable.

Thanks Michael,

For coming up with more accurate details pertaining to Thailand and surrounds,much appreciated.

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