Maize and Rotational Crops

[kickstart]

On ‎24‎/‎2‎/‎2560 at 10:50 AM, farmerjo said:

Hi CLW,

Your welcome to share here if you like,i'm sure there are a lot of interested people in this subject.Basically been trying to do the same for quite a few years now.

My initial process was to take out the levi's and deep plow but found there was still that crust below causing waterlogging.

Then about 3 years ago decided my best approach would be to go minimum tillage and use a combination of deep ripping and gypsum to open up the soil and leave whatever residue on top as mulch to break down slowly and protect the top layer.Have just started to see some benefits recently with the land staying green right up till about two weeks ago(before it would be dead for 4 months),admittingly we did have an inch of rain mid january to freshen things up but my rainfall records show there's a fifty percent chance of that.Living soil.Still my biggest problem is weed control which i will continue to work on but have proven i could grown a corn crop on 10 inches of rainfall so it's finding that balance of retaining the right amount of moisture in the land.For later in the season when the bigger rains come more regularly i plan to put in a series of contours so any excess water is removed quickly from the field.There are many different methods for drainage,contours,y salt trenches,tiling,mole ploughing etc so it's what suits your budget and if you don't have one, i say just grow rice.   

Drainage  if I could drain  my land it would  make land into a different farm ,being an  ex rice farm  ,you are right ,deep ploughing does not work ,tried  it myself  to no  avail , you need a subsoil  to break that pan  .

Working on farms in the uk   a lot of the  fields had been  drained ,back in the days when  you could get government  subsidies ,up to 50-60% to do the job, nearly all the  schemes   had  a big ditch running down one or two sides  of the field  too take the drainage water away .

But here in Thailand  no ditches to take the water away,  the only ditch near  me is the  council one at the front of my house ,I have looked into ways of draining some of my land ,one TV member has even  found a supplier of  plastic  French drains ,but the falls are not right ,and I would have to get  360 backhoe in to do all the trench work for the pipes .way out of my budget ,but the biggest problem  is getting all that water  away from the  land ,which is a must ,as you say when the  main rains come ,ie like 100 mm in about 4 days  we had last year .

For  me  a mole plough would work best ,I think .on some bits of land  a sub soiler has improved the  drainage .

[CLW]

Hi CLW,
Your welcome to share here if you like,i'm sure there are a lot of interested people in this subject.Basically been trying to do the same for quite a few years now.
My initial process was to take out the levi's and deep plow but found there was still that crust below causing waterlogging.
Then about 3 years ago decided my best approach would be to go minimum tillage and use a combination of deep ripping and gypsum to open up the soil and leave whatever residue on top as mulch to break down slowly and protect the top layer.Have just started to see some benefits recently with the land staying green right up till about two weeks ago(before it would be dead for 4 months),admittingly we did have an inch of rain mid january to freshen things up but my rainfall records show there's a fifty percent chance of that.Living soil.Still my biggest problem is weed control which i will continue to work on but have proven i could grown a corn crop on 10 inches of rainfall so it's finding that balance of retaining the right amount of moisture in the land.For later in the season when the bigger rains come more regularly i plan to put in a series of contours so any excess water is removed quickly from the field.There are many different methods for drainage,contours,y salt trenches,tiling,mole ploughing etc so it's what suits your budget and if you don't have one, i say just grow rice.   

This research is about using Cattail (Typha), Common Reed (Phragmites australis) and Giant Cane (Arundo) as biomass material for gasification.
Due to their nature of the three plants they should be able to grow well in rice paddies.
From the review, Arundo seems to have the highest potential however the downside is you need to propagate it with rhizomes, planting in the field.
The two others can use seeds.
So much for the theory.
I just started with the preparations for the experimental setup.

[farmerjo]

Sounds promising,don't forget the land and plant maintenance on the larger scale.

As Thailand moves towards more mechanical traffic.

[wayned]

It's been over a month since anyone posted so I thought tat I would wake everyone up!!

 

The sugar cane cutting is nearing completion .The few stands left will be used for planting after Songkran.  We have finished harvesting the few fields of Sunflowers that were planted after the last corn harvest.  The plants and flowers were very small and the yields low mainly due to the wet and cool weather when trey were planted.

 

Most farmers are spreading chicken house sweepings and preparing the land for the next corn planting which will hopefully be the end of this month or the beginning of May if the rain comes, but it could be as late as 1 July as it was last year due to the lack of water.

 

I'm still buying parts for the combines and coordinating repairs, but I've turned over the farming over to the BIL including terminating the financial backing, other than equipment upkeep and repairs, to the BIL since I haven't been realizing any income the operations since my wife died.  There's no goesouta coming my direction so there's no goesinta!!!

 

I've been puttering around the house do all of the jobs that I wanted to do for the past years as I'm not supposed to be walking much after the two surgery's that I have had on my feet since  November with another scheduled for the 27th of this month.. I'm actually doing quite well now but the climbing on the monsters and walking the fields is over, but I must admit the hammock is boring at times!

 

 

 

 

 

[farmerjo]

Nice to hear Wayned.

I've just finished today my 1st chemical knockdown,glysophate,2-4d and cypermethryn.

Will give it a week to 10 days to see where i've missed and how it's breaking down.

Given that i will be direct drilling i will most likely hit it again prior to seeding with a paraquat/attrazine mix.

So if i can ask for 3 inches of rain over songkran,that would be lovely.

I'm keen to make a roller/crimper to go on front of tractor.The normal size diameter is 400mm pipe but the biggest i can get locally is 200mm so will head to town monday and see what i can have engineered thai style.

[wayned]

Aren't pipes like resistors?  If you hook two 200mm pieces together in series don't you end up with 400mm?  As you can see if I haven't lost it already I'm in the process!    I've never seen one here, but I haven't really looked. Good luck with your Thai engineering  on Monday, I'd like to be a fly on the wall and listen to you try to explain what you want to the metal basher!

[kickstart]

8 hours ago, farmerjo said:

Nice to hear Wayned.

I've just finished today my 1st chemical knockdown,glysophate,2-4d and cypermethryn.

Will give it a week to 10 days to see where i've missed and how it's breaking down.

Given that i will be direct drilling i will most likely hit it again prior to seeding with a paraquat/attrazine mix.

So if i can ask for 3 inches of rain over songkran,that would be lovely.

I'm keen to make a roller/crimper to go on front of tractor.The normal size diameter is 400mm pipe but the biggest i can get locally is 200mm so will head to town monday and see what i can have engineered thai style.

17

 

 

Hi FJ 

Been  thinking liked  Wayned, been  a bit  quiet  for a  while,  for your  400 mm pipe  try  your local   scrap  yard or  your local  recycling   center   I am always   buying  steel  from  them  there  will  be  in  KK  somewhere, biggest  problem  will be  finding   a piece the right  length,  if it is  to  long  it can be cut  to length  , the odd  bit   kept   back  for a  rainy day  ?   one local yard  charges  20 baht /kg,  our  big one  in Lopburi ,   Chines owned, and about the richest business in  town  , charge  25 bart/kg, it still works  out  a lot cheaper than buying new steel .

Or by  a piece of  plate steel  and have it bent  into pipe  shape we  have  2 company's  near here  that make  the steel water  towers,   at this  time  they are certainly not out of work  , they will have  a set rollers and will soon bend you a  piece of steel.

 

   

[farmerjo]

Well back from town and the roller/crimper has been filed in the to hard basket for now.

This morning i printed out drawings of the Rodale machine and thought best plan of attack was to take it to my local bloke who could either  fabricate it or sub contract out as long as it was made in 2 weeks.However keen he was the word songkran and holidays kept popping into the equation making it a mid may finish.

 

On the way home home stopped and bought some 339 variety corn.

Ouch,works out to 640 baht/rai for hybrid seed this season and on the pin up board they were only offering 6.3 baht/kilo 14 percent moisture which is very low  price for this time of year from what i've seen in the past.

To add fuel to the fire as we were leaving the sales girl said keep the receipt in case it doesn't grow well so the seed company can come and look.

Not the sort of confidence i was looking for to get off to a good start.

 

On a brighter note the chemical knockdown is taking effect and i still have plenty of paw tueng(sunn hemp)seed, pumkin seeds and 60 bags of 16-16-8+9s (670 baht/50kg) in the shed to mix and match the start of the season.

[kickstart]

Pac-Tee-Ung. mid day brake , cleaning the  drill land wheel .after  about  13 mm of rain  over the past  week  this guy  has dicided  to drill his maize crop , land being black  has held on to the water , and is still   a bit on the wet side .

Both these  drills are fairly new  ,why they  did not buy  disc culters   drills, these  old strait bar culters   are passed they use   now , can not be that more expensive ,or another case of things change slowly in  LOS.

I would have said  to early  to drill maize , will end up as a crop  to be sold  ,  or  as  cattle feed  when it gets 3 foot tall  and starts  to die back , due to  lack of  water  , test of time will tell.

The verity was Syngenta  s6248

 

[kickstart]

On 11/04/2017 at 9:12 PM, kickstart said:

Pac-Tee-Ung. mid day brake , cleaning the  drill land wheel .after  about  13 mm of rain  over the past  week  this guy  has dicided  to drill his maize crop , land being black  has held on to the water , and is still   a bit on the wet side .

Both these  drills are fairly new  ,why they  did not buy  disc culters   drills, these  old strait bar culters   are passed they use   now , can not be that more expensive ,or another case of things change slowly in  LOS.

I would have said  to early  to drill maize , will end up as a crop  to be sold  ,  or  as  cattle feed  when it gets 3 foot tall  and starts  to die back , due to  lack of  water  , test of time will tell.

The verity was Syngenta  s6248

 

43

This old boy will  be haveing a glass  or  two  of whiskey this  evening, he drilled this corn  last  sunday ,with the  wind and sun this week   , I would say  it was getting a bit stressed,  no  rain ,  this afternoon  we had 9 mm of rain , that will help it on its way .  

[farmerjo]

Hi KS,

Up here,130 kms west of Khon Kaen we have had 40mm over songkran and still raining.

Should be good to start planting the following week,just waiting to see if any more weed germinations after the rain.

Looking like the best start to the season since 2008.

[JungleBiker]

On 4/7/2017 at 1:19 PM, farmerjo said:

I've just finished today my 1st chemical knockdown,glysophate,2-4d and cypermethryn.

3

 

Hi FJ,  Just wondering what's the cypermethrin for? I guess you know' it's an insecticide.

 

[JungleBiker]

On 4/7/2017 at 1:19 PM, farmerjo said:

 

I'm keen to make a roller/crimper to go on front of tractor.The normal size diameter is 400mm pipe but the biggest i can get locally is 200mm so will head to town monday and see what i can have engineered thai style.

Bigger than 40cm diameter but I wonder if you could weld say 2 or 3 oil barrels together? Weld some wheels to the ends? 

[farmerjo]

1 hour ago, JungleBiker said:

 

Hi FJ,  Just wondering what's the cypermethrin for? I guess you know' it's an insecticide.

 

Hi JB,

Nice to hear from you again and hope things are well.

The cypermethryn is for anything that moves,mainly caterpillars,cutworms,etc and hopefully it may sort out some mites as well.I have a build up of numbers over the years since going no-till and haven't sprayed for bugs before using this system.I'm hoping the one application will be enough with just a border spray once the crop is established.

[farmerjo]

1 hour ago, JungleBiker said:

Bigger than 40cm diameter but I wonder if you could weld say 2 or 3 oil barrels together? Weld some wheels to the ends? 

I will just leave it for now as having done a chemical knockdown the crimping to kill the weeds isn't so important.It was more to see my rows when seeding but have added a disc marker to sort that out if the gps (satelites) go out(which it does frequently here in Thailand).

Will eventually get a proper roller/crimper made to trial rolling sunn hemp later in the year for the dry season crop.

[JungleBiker]

On 4/15/2017 at 0:10 PM, farmerjo said:

 if the gps (satelites) go out(which it does frequently here in Thailand).

Hi FJ, Thanks for your replies. I'm fine thanks.

I didn't know anyone here in this forum had a GPS in their tractor. I just searched and see you first mentioned having one back in 2015! 

I'm also interested in a GPS guidance system and so far I fancy this one from the UK: https://agricision.co.uk

combined with a basic model iPad with 9.7 inch screen because I think I'd struggle to see the Trimble's 11cm screen! 

Do you know which satellite systems cover Thailand... does your Trimble pick up signals from both GPS and GLONASS? I understand that if the device can pick up signals form both the US and Russian systems of satellites the accuracy will be much better. 

[JungleBiker]

Hi FJ,

 

I just did some googling and is appears that Thailand has GLONASS coverage about 99% of the time (similar to Russia):

http://www.oxts.com/technical-notes/what-does-glonass-add-2/

 

Combining GPS and GLONASS improves precison by about 15% compared with GPS alone: see slide 8 here

 

I tried to find out if the Trimble EZ Guide 250 receives GLONASS. It's not mentioned in the following data sheet so I assume it doesn't: http://trl.trimble.com/docushare/dsweb/Get/Document-499549/022503-1115-UK_EZ_Guide250_DS_MarketSmart_A4_0713_LR.pdf

The trimble brochure does mention SBAS (Satellite-Based Augmentation System): http://construction.trimble.com/products-and-solutions/satellite-based-augmentation-system-sbas 

It says SBAS systems in place are WAAS (USA), EGNOS (Europe), GAGAN (India) and MSAS (Japan) which deliver corrections at no cost for sub-meter positioning. (By the way, I found a handy "how to guide" for the trimble at New Hollands website: http://www.newhollandplm.com/upload/8bb1a24a-55e1-4cf3-88a9-719035fda35fA-02 - EZ-Guide 250 How to Guide.pdf)

This youtube published May 2016 says there will be 2 more SBAS systems in Russia and China (I don't know when)... 

 

The research presented in the above video concluded that "SBAS corrections are useful to Thailand". 

 

Note that in the above video they are talking about absolute accuracy whereas when working  with something like an EZ Guide it is pass-to-pass accuracy that counts e.g. to reduce overlaps/gaps. 

 

You probably know that in USA/Europe/etc many farmers are now using guidance and steering systems based on RTK (Real Time Kinematics) that are accurate to 1 - 2cm but the required equipment is much more expensive than an EZ Guide (tens of thousands of dollars). However, there are some new RTK systems coming into the market that are much cheaper, e.g. 

http://effectivefarmer.com/?utm_source=site_mobi&utm_campaign=pre_order_fieldbee&utm_medium=banner&utm_content=en#block11

https://reachrs.emlid.com 

Some guys are developing their own home-made systems, e.g.

http://www.thecombineforum.com/forums/31-technology/279889-rtk-budget-2.html 

 

 

 

[farmerjo]

On 16/04/2017 at 9:46 PM, JungleBiker said:

Hi FJ, Thanks for your replies. I'm fine thanks.

I didn't know anyone here in this forum had a GPS in their tractor. I just searched and see you first mentioned having one back in 2015! 

I'm also interested in a GPS guidance system and so far I fancy this one from the UK: https://agricision.co.uk

combined with a basic model iPad with 9.7 inch screen because I think I'd struggle to see the Trimble's 11cm screen! 

Do you know which satellite systems cover Thailand... does your Trimble pick up signals from both GPS and GLONASS? I understand that if the device can pick up signals form both the US and Russian systems of satellites the accuracy will be much better. 

Hi JB,

My old version firmware has waas and egnos,playing around the other day i could detect it picking up 8 satelites but not sure which ones they are.

Crop Tech Asia who are the Trimble distributors here have just sent me the latest firmware upgrade to version 3.10 which will show the SBAS settings,just waiting for a mate to pick me up a new usb so i can download it into the screen.

When i bought it i had to upgrade to ag-15 antenna as they said the normal patch antenna was not strong enough with all the terrain here in Thailand.

Will let you know how i get on once installed. 

[farmerjo]

Today i installed the new firmware.

Doesn't show gagan and msas after the upgrade with SBAS.

I could not get it to work,it's picking up 9 satellites giving speed and gps co-ordinates on moniter but even on the lowest setting not able to have a strong enough satellite signal.(only 2 bars when minimum of 3 required)

Will get in touch with the supplier and see what fine tuning is required.Before the upgrade the signal was a little hit and miss.(today was a bit overcast with a few showers of rain) 

[farmerjo]

Planted corn into no moisture on the 20th then had 30mm on the 24th.

Starting to germinate now.Just 15 rai as the weather has been extreme,will continue planting next week.

Has anyone tried a nicosulfron/attrazine mix as a post emergent application?

 

 

Thought i would show this as well.My brothers son has bought a drone to take photo's.

I could see this being handy here to moniter dense crops or if nothing else makes for a good picture on the wall in the house.

 

Edited April 29, 2017 by farmerjo

[kickstart]

The same crop from post  699, now growing, still not the best of crops , but it went a week without  any rain and it was hot ,  but with 56 mm of rain  in the past 4 days  ,and on black land it should soon pick up .

This  is only one of a few crops  of maize in our area, one time of day   the first   sign  of rain  and all the  corn drills are out in force .but now  farmers are  getting a bit  weary , with 2 years ago  90%  lost an entire  first  crop ,and last  year  with prices being so low farmers  are not risking  losing a crop  ,but with the recent rains   drills will be out  this week . looking at  my old records from when we grew maize  it was always the  2 ed -  3 ed  week  of  May  before we  drilled any  maize ,evon then  one  year we lost 40  rie  ,no rain  

 But on the other side  , we got a card  last week for a  Ngang-  Boo-ut , the big do  the day before  a young  man  becomes  a monk  , just at the end of our soi , a small dairy farm, they were  going to have the  party  in a field opposite the farm ,the field just being an ex-rice paddy, on  black  land to ,but ith all this rain 8-900 people on this wet field  would  turned it in to a  rice field ,so they  did it the Thai way , and  shut   our local road  ,and put all the tables on the road ,and thanks  to the   good general  and co , it is a nice  new road  to ,but  a road being narrow  and a 110 tables , we were 200 yards  from the stage at the back   and we could  not see bugger all  of the goings on's ,but  it was a good evening, good food , and it was  hot  for a change .

 

 

[farmerjo]

Went for a ride up back of land today,haven't been for a while and had forgot the neighbour planted corn at songkran.

Next to it he has put in what looks like a solar pump to storage tanks.Not sure how effective that amount of storage would be of benefit but 10 points for trying. 

[wayned]

Over the last 10 days we have had three afternoon thundershowers.  All of the corn fields are ready for planting, but nobody has taken a chance and planted.  In the meantime the existing sugar cane fields have all been cultivated and the new ones planted.

 

It feels like it wants to rain, the humidity is currently 84% but the only water that is dripping is from my body.

 

 It's just a matter of who will roll the dice first then others will follow!

[farmerjo]

To hot to be doing much here so be plottering in the shed making a prototype in row shield sprayer so i can use paraquat post emergent rather than selective herbicides.

   

[CLW]

Will Sunn Hemp re-grow after cutting at a certain height or die?

[Michael Hare]

2 hours ago, CLW said:

Will Sunn Hemp re-grow after cutting at a certain height or die?

Sunn hemp is an annual species. If one cuts it low, to about 10-20 cm above ground level, it will not regrow. Dies. If it is cut high, at about 50-60 cm above ground level, it will regrow back. I use the high cutting height in wet season planted seed crops to prevent lodging.

[CLW]

Sunn hemp is an annual species. If one cuts it low, to about 10-20 cm above ground level, it will not regrow. Dies. If it is cut high, at about 50-60 cm above ground level, it will regrow back. I use the high cutting height in wet season planted seed crops to prevent lodging.

Thank you!

[farmerjo]

Here's a simple guide to growing although not in Thailand.

http://www.agronomy.com.au/pdf/sunnhemp.pdf

[Michael Hare]

9 hours ago, farmerjo said:

Here's a simple guide to growing although not in Thailand.

http://www.agronomy.com.au/pdf/sunnhemp.pdf

At my seed company, Ubon Forage Seeds http://www.ubonforageseeds.com/en/ we produce and sell crotalaria seed to the USA and Spain. We call the Thai variety Crescent Sunn. 

 

http://www.tropseeds.com/crotalaria-juncea-sunn-hemp-grass-seed/

 

We buy the seed from contracted farmers in Sisaket, Mahasarakham and Ubon provinces. The quality has to be high with a miniumum germination of 85%, purity of 99.5%, no weed seeds, no other crop seeds, no rice seed. Farmers have to clean the seed themselves.

 

This year we will also conduct trials on the Trop Sunn cultivar from Hawaii. The problem with Crescent Sunn is that it is very variable.

 

 

[farmerjo]

22 minutes ago, Michael Hare said:

At my seed company, Ubon Forage Seeds http://www.ubonforageseeds.com/en/ we produce and sell crotalaria seed to the USA and Spain. We call the Thai variety Crescent Sunn. 

 

http://www.tropseeds.com/crotalaria-juncea-sunn-hemp-grass-seed/

 

We buy the seed from contracted farmers in Sisaket, Mahasarakham and Ubon provinces. The quality has to be high with a miniumum germination of 85%, purity of 99.5%, no weed seeds, no other crop seeds, no rice seed. Farmers have to clean the seed themselves.

 

This year we will also conduct trials on the Trop Sunn cultivar from Hawaii. The problem with Crescent Sunn is that it is very variable.

 

 

Thanks Michael,

For coming up with more accurate details pertaining to Thailand and surrounds,much appreciated.