Maize and Rotational Crops

[kickstart]

KJ

I liked the last photo,nice and green,but the grass weeds look a problem, will compleat for soil nutrients ?.

The yellow stuff ,is that land on a slope?,water drains away quickly drys out,even grass weeds do not grow,in my very humble opinion,I would say nutrients .

Some thing I have though about for some time,have you ever checked the PH of the soil,new land, on a slope may be a bit of lime,would help ,or again a sub soiler.

Something on my next reluctant trip back to Farangnland shoping list next year, is a soil testing kit.

Kon Ken university has a big agricultry depatment,my be they could help.

I was on our neiboubers dairy farm to night ,as the miss said "go and borow a coco nut"( she would), they where sharpening a machete ,the guy said off to cut some maize plants as cattle feed,no rain ,on sunday watched 2 Fords plough in a maize crop only 4 leaves showing,on light land going to be a few more crops soon ,for cattle feed or the plough soon.

For the last 5 years only been 1 year when maize planted before the Songkam festival has "done" all right, the rest have been to dry ,I said a while ago we did not plant before 24th May,this year will be the same,again.

Looking at Thai news to-night flash floods in Mukdahan,if we only had half that.

[pigeonjake]

were the same here K S, no bloody rain, i dont need it to much like you boys do,

i just dred if our bores run dry, the pig one never has but one of the house ones has,

im watering the veg sparingly now,

good luck to you all with your crops,

jake

[pigeonjake]

this is the little patch i grow for us and a treat for the pigs,

i get the cheapest seed and all it gets is pig poo and water

when this is up i put on loads of well rotted pig poo and roto till it in,

[farmerjo]

Will deep rip those bad areas after harvest when plentyof moisture.

The weeds what you see is what you get.Ive done 3 chemical applications so not spending anymore.Will continue to trail more liquid fertilizers but the crops on its own now.

Have spent 1750 per rai included is harvest cost.So say we get 6 baht a kilo at middleman i need 290 kgs per rai to cover costs.Then look to set up the next crop better.

[JungleBiker]

Will deep rip those bad areas after harvest when plenty of moisture.

Normally sub-soiling/deep ripping is done when the soil is dryish so that it shatters/cracks.

See here: http://www.fs.fed.us/t-d/pubs/pdfpubs/pdf08342828/pdf08342828dpi72.pdf

Quote: "Soils should be mostly dry and friable. If the soil is too wet, subsoiler shanks will slide through the ground without breaking up the soil. The shank can actually glaze the soil and compact it even more. If the soil is extremely dry, getting the subsoiler into the ground can be difficult, requiring larger, more powerful tractors to pull the shanks through compacted areas. Soils, especially those with more clay content, can actually break into large clods or slabs if conditions are too dry."

...and here: http://www.uky.edu/Ag/Agronomy/Extension/ssnv/ssvl203.pdf

Quote: "The subsoiling was done... when the soil was dry enough for excellent soil shattering."

[farmerjo]

Hi JB

Noted that.

Will also pick up some gypsum and try on those bare areas.

Back to KS no soil sampling has been done at this stage.Also looking at making a crimping roller setup for between the rows to flatten the grass and crimp the stems to stop them growing till the maize leaves shade them in. If only weeds were worth money i have no problems growing them.

[goldfinger]

Gypsum???

calcium should work better.

In Thai : Buun Kao

50 Kilo about 150.- Baht on 1 Rai

i did it this year on 20 rai

[farmerjo]

Gypsum???

calcium should work better.

In Thai : Buun Kao

50 Kilo about 150.- Baht on 1 Rai

i did it this year on 20 rai

Welcome Goldfinger,

Another member said that was gypsum,now i'm confused.

I know lime/calcuim brings up your PH and it will have to be done eventually.

The reason i was after gypsum is i've see great results breaking down clay soils.

Interested to know how you applied it and on what.Applying limes and gypsums your allways heading in the right direction.

[goldfinger]

Hi Jo,

Gypsum is CaSO4 and consists of 23% Ca and about 17% Sulfur. It can REDUCE your PH if necessary, and can be useful if you are growing something that likes Sulfur.

Gypsum and/or Calcium are both good to improve soil condition.I dont know the Price for gypsum,in my opinion 100% calcium seems more economic.

We applied it after ploughing 3 disc, just before doing the 7 disc

I have something like a Plattform behind my Ford, so i can load on the bags and 2 People which threw it out.

Take care that the wind is coming from the right direction.....

[kickstart]

FJ

Making a set of crimping rollers,that dose not sound easy ,and would it work.

Back in TV's thread on sub soilers I posted some photo's of some spring tines with "ducks foot " tines .a set of them, and do some inter row weeding would lift the weeds ,and they would soon dry out , would have thought 1 or 2 passes with a set of hoes would be cheaper than spraying .

You might have to make a frame up ,and I would have thought you could do 4 rows ,would help keep costs down.

Looking at that photo the weeds almost to well established, could have been done 2 weeks ago you would have to get your old Kubota up and working,I would be worried about your Ford runing on some of the plants.

In the uk we use to use tractor hoes on sugar beet ,Pigeonjake would remember,row spacing would have been less to ,worked well( but we still use to "go and hoe the beet",by hand.)

@JungleBiker.

You are correct, on sub soiling timing I have done some subsoiling in the dry season, just after the new year. on a silty loam land ,not clay ,and it worked a treat ,got a good shattering effect,did a bit 2weeks ago on dry sand land ,again worked well.

@goldfinger.

The joy's of us farangs speaking Thai ,I use Boon Khoa when buying lime,in my field of cattle rearing ,for calcium ,as in the cattle mineral , and the drug, I use the english pronounciation ,calcium.

[farmerjo]

FJ

Making a set of crimping rollers,that dose not sound easy ,and would it work.

Back in TV's thread on sub soilers I posted some photo's of some spring tines with "ducks foot " tines .a set of them, and do some inter row weeding would lift the weeds ,and they would soon dry out , would have thought 1 or 2 passes with a set of hoes would be cheaper than spraying .

You might have to make a frame up ,and I would have thought you could do 4 rows ,would help keep costs down.

Looking at that photo the weeds almost to well established, could have been done 2 weeks ago you would have to get your old Kubota up and working,I would be worried about your Ford runing on some of the plants.

In the uk we use to use tractor hoes on sugar beet ,Pigeonjake would remember,row spacing would have been less to ,worked well( but we still use to "go and hoe the beet",by hand.)

@JungleBiker.

You are correct, on sub soiling timing I have done some subsoiling in the dry season, just after the new year. on a silty loam land ,not clay ,and it worked a treat ,got a good shattering effect,did a bit 2weeks ago on dry sand land ,again worked well.

@goldfinger.

The joy's of us farangs speaking Thai ,I use Boon Khoa when buying lime,in my field of cattle rearing ,for calcium ,as in the cattle mineral , and the drug, I use the english pronounciation ,calcium.

Hi KS,

I'm on 750mm row spacings so the ford is ok till about the 30-40 day mark,after then i would be worried about the damage to the plants.

It has been a good learning curve this year with the no-till method,especially with the timing of applying chemicals.

In hindsight i should have taken more care to stop seeds setting in the non growing season,then probably applied my knockdown chemicals 10 days to early and then my post emergence spray was 10 days to late.(atrazine has done nothing after 2 weeks)

As you say in other posts i JUMPED the gun focusing on getting 2 crops in for the year rather than waiting for the correct conditions to apply a residual chemical with the knockdown chemical then seed.The consistant hot temperatures of an early planting have hurt this year.

Will borrow a roller off a mates sugar planter and weld some flatbar ribs on it to trial the crimping method.for future crops(may work,may not),I know cultivating would be a lot more successfull than chemicals but would like to leave to soil undisturbed for a few years with just a minimal amount of subsoiling on my new land.Cost wise it would be cheaper to inter-row cultivate and would add extra growth potential.I worry if i cultivate and we end up with a wet year i might not be able to get back on the land after harvest. i've spent all that i'm going to on this crop as i dont exactly know what a good yield to achieve is compared to input costs at this stage.(wIll tidy up a good rai from weeds to see what can be expected)

My expectations for this crop are not great as its my first go at no-till planting in late april.Living and learning.

,

[Ron19]

This is a neighbors corn patch I think of around 2 rai and prepared the way I prefer it done. This had a fair amount of weeds showing and these were turned over with a 6 disc unit and then after the next lot of weeds came through done again with a rotary hoe.When weeds were showing again it was seeded and that is what you see here, following rains have been good.

[kickstart]

FJ

Making a set of crimping rollers,that dose not sound easy ,and would it work.

Back in TV's thread on sub soilers I posted some photo's of some spring tines with "ducks foot " tines .a set of them, and do some inter row weeding would lift the weeds ,and they would soon dry out , would have thought 1 or 2 passes with a set of hoes would be cheaper than spraying .

You might have to make a frame up ,and I would have thought you could do 4 rows ,would help keep costs down.

Looking at that photo the weeds almost to well established, could have been done 2 weeks ago you would have to get your old Kubota up and working,I would be worried about your Ford runing on some of the plants.

In the uk we use to use tractor hoes on sugar beet ,Pigeonjake would remember,row spacing would have been less to ,worked well( but we still use to "go and hoe the beet",by hand.)

@JungleBiker.

You are correct, on sub soiling timing I have done some subsoiling in the dry season, just after the new year. on a silty loam land ,not clay ,and it worked a treat ,got a good shattering effect,did a bit 2weeks ago on dry sand land ,again worked well.

@goldfinger.

The joy's of us farangs speaking Thai ,I use Boon Khoa when buying lime,in my field of cattle rearing ,for calcium ,as in the cattle mineral , and the drug, I use the english pronounciation ,calcium.

Hi KS,

I'm on 750mm row spacings so the ford is ok till about the 30-40 day mark,after then i would be worried about the damage to the plants.

It has been a good learning curve this year with the no-till method,especially with the timing of applying chemicals.

In hindsight i should have taken more care to stop seeds setting in the non growing season,then probably applied my knockdown chemicals 10 days to early and then my post emergence spray was 10 days to late.(atrazine has done nothing after 2 weeks)

As you say in other posts i JUMPED the gun focusing on getting 2 crops in for the year rather than waiting for the correct conditions to apply a residual chemical with the knockdown chemical then seed.The consistant hot temperatures of an early planting have hurt this year.

Will borrow a roller off a mates sugar planter and weld some flatbar ribs on it to trial the crimping method.for future crops(may work,may not),I know cultivating would be a lot more successfull than chemicals but would like to leave to soil undisturbed for a few years with just a minimal amount of subsoiling on my new land.Cost wise it would be cheaper to inter-row cultivate and would add extra growth potential.I worry if i cultivate and we end up with a wet year i might not be able to get back on the land after harvest. i've spent all that i'm going to on this crop as i dont exactly know what a good yield to achieve is compared to input costs at this stage.(wIll tidy up a good rai from weeds to see what can be expected)

My expectations for this crop are not great as its my first go at no-till planting in late april.Living and learning.

,

Farming is almost a permanent learning curve,no 2 years the same,allright writing in hindsight,spray round up pre drilling ,atrazine pre emergence .then use a inter row culivator for any stray weeds.some years it would work well other years ,not so good

Or doing it theThai way direct drill, spray a pre emergence and, as has been said apply fertilizer and ridge up at the same time giving you some weed control, when the plants are about 50 cm tall.

As for inter- row cultilivating,a wet year should not be a problem as with inter- row cultilivating you only go down 30-40 mm ,just enough to get under the weed roots and lift them up, with any luck the sun should dry them out.

But it has been a lot of years since I have done any thing with inter -row work, I think an hour with Google would be of some use ,see any new idears.

[farmerjo]

There's some fancy boots you can extend down from your sprayer to skim along the surface between the rows and that would give a better choice of what chemicals are used.(i'm a few years away from that).

On the yield side of things,this 999 variety says its capable of 13,000 kilo's/hectare or 2000(approx) kilo's/rai.I know thats in an absolute perfect world.

Has anyone seen any results close to this?

One more question,would it be possible to apply lime or gypsum in the furrow with the seed and fertilizer or would that change the complexity of the soil to much?

[kickstart]

There's some fancy boots you can extend down from your sprayer to skim along the surface between the rows and that would give a better choice of what chemicals are used.(i'm a few years away from that).

On the yield side of things,this 999 variety says its capable of 13,000 kilo's/hectare or 2000(approx) kilo's/rai.I know thats in an absolute perfect world.

Has anyone seen any results close to this?

One more question,would it be possible to apply lime or gypsum in the furrow with the seed and fertilizer or would that change the complexity of the soil to m

I know you should not compare LOS with our own countries ,as they is a lot of differences ,but for lime it is slow releasing we use to apply lime in the autumn on ,arable fields and grass,land on arable land on fallow or cultivated land,then drill in the spring time ,giving the lime time to work into the land over winter,ready for the crop in the spring ,same as grassland ,turn out the cows in the spring lime has been taken up by the grass ,also said the same about cow manure apply in autumn do the spring cultivations, nutrients will be available for the plants.

As for Thailand ,would have thought take up of lime or gypsum would be quicker ,but to apply at the same time as drilling,at a guess I would say only 40%? would be taken up ,but the next crop would reap more of the benefits,I would say it would not change the complexity of the soil that much,

I think this one is over to our JungleBiker.

As for 999 doing 2000Kg/ rie , we last used NK 48 and got about 1100 Kg/rie which we thought was ok ,my misses is good with maize ,she said all the years she has grown maize ,which is a lot ,always been about 1000 Kg/rie,but with some different management methods ,who knows.

But high inputs ,do equal high yields,but you have to look at the bottom line,does it pay.

I would say verity alone would not make for high yields.

[farmerjo]

 

Neighbours corn 2 weeks old coming up nicely.

[JungleBiker]

Re Attraize .... grass weeds still grew.

Sorry to inform you that atrazine does not stop/kill grass. That's why it doesn't kill the corn/maize which is also a member of the grass family. It controls broadleaf weeds (non-grasses): http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atrazine

[JungleBiker]

would it be possible to apply lime or gypsum in the furrow with the seed and fertilizer or would that change the complexity of the soil to much?

Hi Farmer Jo,

The subject of liming can get a bit complicated, so I will try to keep this simple.

First I suggest you check the texture and pH of your soil. (There may be a government soil testing service in your province that can also check the nutrients. Last time I used such a service - some years ago in Khon Kaen - it was free). Also see this document: http://www.agnet.org/htmlarea_file/library/20110718153311/eb533.pdf

The pH will tell you how much you should raise your pH. Most soils in the tropics are acid and would benefit from lime. If you look at this chart http://www.avocadosource.com/tools/fertcalc_files/ph.htm you can see that around pH 6.5 all the nutrients are available and that is the pH at which most crops will give their highest yields. Most Thai soils are usually within the range of pH 4.0 - 5.5 where you can see that the availability of many nutrients is limited. Mind you, in the document linked to in the para above it is written: "most research indicates that it is non-economic to apply lime to Thai soils if the pH is higher than 5.5. Therefore, LDD soil testing laboratories recommend that lime be applied to most crops only if the soil pH is less than 5.5." In other words the ideal pH for maximum yields may not be the ideal pH for maximising profits.

Knowing your soil texture (e.g. is it sandy soil, or sandy loam, clayey, etc) will help you determine how much lime is needed to raise the pH... see this document: http://vric.ucdavis.edu/pdf/Soil/ChangingpHinSoil.pdf You can see for example, (in table 1) that a clay loam soil requires roughly 4 times more lime than is needed for a sandy soil to raise the pH a given amount. That document also explains the differences between the different kinds of lime. In the place where I am growing crops the soil is lacking magnesium so I use dolomite.

If you want to raise your pH say 2 points from e.g. 4.5 to 6.5 it is usually recommended not to do it in one big jump but instead try to raise the pH just 1 point at a time, (e.g. from 4.5 to 5.5, then later 5.5 to 6.5). Liming is not an instant fix. It can take a year or three to get your pH to the right level depending on how low it is to start with.

It is usually recommended to mix the lime in with the soil (e.g. apply the lime before ploughing) but in your case you're doing zero tillage, so you can spread it on the surface (spread all over, not put in a furrow). The heavy rains will help wash it into the soil. Here it's suggested you do it in several smaller applications.. Quote: “A general guideline for lime applications in no-till is: half the rate, twice as often”: http://www.ksre.k-state.edu/news/story/applying_lime020613.aspx

Many fertilisers are acid (e.g. urea acidifies the soil), so they tend to bring the pH down and therefore further lime applications will be needed in future years.

Lime also provides calcium which is an important plant nutrient.

Regarding gypsum, the following research paper based on soils in southern Thailand found that gypsum was detrimental: http://natres.psu.ac.th/Link/SoilCongress/bdd/symp40/111-t.pdf However, perhaps your soils may respond differently. Like I said at the beginning, this topic can become complex. I suggest to kick off you should just look at getting your soil pH up to around 5.5 - 6.5.

JB

[farmerjo]

Re Attraize .... grass weeds still grew.

Sorry to inform you that atrazine does not stop/kill grass. That's why it doesn't kill the corn/maize which is also a member of the grass family. It controls broadleaf weeds (non-grasses): http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atrazine

Thanks JB,

I learnt the hard way this season seeing the broad leaves dying and the grass flourishing in crop.

Have noted it and now i'm just relying on the maize to shade out the grasses.

Worst part is i've got very few broad leaf weeds and alot of grass

Will check with my supplier to see if he has something more selective for the future.

[Ron19]

This is a neighbors corn patch I think of around 2 rai and prepared the way I prefer it done. This had a fair amount of weeds showing and these were turned over with a 6 disc unit and then after the next lot of weeds came through done again with a rotary hoe.When weeds were showing again it was seeded and that is what you see here, following rains have been good.

Here is the same patch showing emerging corn with good germination and not a weed in sight.

This farmer usually gets a good crop from this patch with the only problem perhaps being wind damage.

[farmerjo]

Nice Ron,

Keep them coming,will be good to see some start to finish crops.

JB,good reading there on the ph levels in soils and how bad a lot of thailands soils are.

Asked the wife who was our soil doctor is but she doesn't know.

KS,hope your season break has come.

We've had 31mm over the last 3 days so it may be its started on us here.

[kickstart]

Atrazine is an herbicide that is used to stop pre- and postemergence broadleaf and grassy weeds in crops such as sorghum, maize, sugarcane, lupins, pine, and eucalypt plantations, and triazine-tolerant canola

The above is from Wiki,Re atrazine, Round here Atrazine is applied with Gramoxone,as a preemergence with Gramoxone ,sprayed no later than 5 days after drilling never could see the point of Gramoxone,would have thought ,soon as it hit the bare soil it will neutralize itself.

Have seen some good results using Atrazine, a lot of clean crops.

A good report on lime, something I had forgot, high urea usage reduces the ph,will have to put some on my Napier grass,as we use a good 250 units of urea a year .

Many years ago in the uk we used a urea that had added chalk, helped keep the ph right.

Drove past the end of our soi today,they was a tractor full of maize plants,some had some small cobs on ,not unlike baby corn all bound for a local dairy farm,no rain,

we have a saying around here ,when buying maize seed , you ask for Pann-Wooar-Yim, smiling cow verity,for some farmers that is where they maize crop ends up as cattle feed. gives the cows a change from rice straw

One guy I heard of rents his maize fields, and lost part of his crop,not yet end of May and that will probably be his profits gone for this year.

[wayned]

The crop that I planted 23 days ago got ploughed under yesterday. It was a sorry sight after 23 days of no rain. Thunder, lightening, wind, True Visions "rain fade and power outages, but non of the wet stuff. I will try again, maybe, if the skies open up, reminds me of last year . I didn't replant then and the yield was down to about 70% of the last year. Would have taken a picture but the batteries in my camera died and in my frustration they went under the disc also!

[farmerjo]

The crop that I planted 23 days ago got ploughed under yesterday.  It was a sorry sight after 23 days of no rain.   Thunder, lightening, wind, True Visions "rain fade and power outages, but non of the wet stuff.  I will try again, maybe, if the skies open up, reminds me of last year .  I didn't replant then and the yield was down to about 70% of the last year.  Would have taken a picture but the batteries in my camera died and in my frustration they went under the disc also!

Sorry to hear that Wayned,if you replant can you get away with just the cost of seed,the ploughing in and reseeding.

 

Mine is the last standing crop around here that was planted in mid-late  april.

 

I'm heading off to do some work for a couple of weeks so when i get back i'll know how much to take the tractor and slasher to,at this stage i reakon 15 out of the 70 rai will be cut out.

 

A couple of pics from yesty afternoon,another week and the maize should have control over the grasses

.

[wayned]

Actually it was 30 days not 23. The plants were still only about 15cm high and the weeds and grass was even dying. Everybody that planted when I did have ploughed it under waiting for the next rain.

Our coop has decided to become the middle man this year and we have poured over 10000 sq meters of concrete for drying, built an enclosure for storage and are currently installing a weigh station. With how things are going there won't be much to dry and we could probably use a bathroom scale to weigh it!

[JungleBiker]

Atrazine is an herbicide that is used to stop pre- and postemergence broadleaf and grassy weeds in crops such as sorghum, maize, sugarcane, lupins, pine, and eucalypt plantations, and triazine-tolerant canola

Round here Atrazine is applied with Gramoxone,as a preemergence with Gramoxone ,sprayed no later than 5 days after drilling never could see the point of Gramoxone,would have thought ,soon as it hit the bare soil it will neutralize itself.

Thanks KS for correcting me. My mistake for not reading much beyond the first part of that wiki page. However I see here http://www.syngenta.com/global/corporate/en/products-and-innovation/product-brands/crop-protection/herbicides/Pages/gesaprim-aatrex.aspx that it says Gesaprim (Syngenta's brand name for atrazine) "controls some annual grasses", so I take this to mean that it does not control all (annual) grasses. If so, this might explain why you've had problems with grass weeds? I don't know. Perhaps one way to find out would to identify the species of grass growing in your corn and then find out if these species are ones not controlled by atrazine. Back in our home countries they have weed identification guides, but here I don't know if such guides are available? I think the chemical companies, like Syngenta, might be able to help. It could be worth contacting their Thai HQ to find out (http://www3.syngenta.com/country/th/en/contactus/Pages/contactus.aspx).

I just found this "The application of expert systems for weed identification in Thailand" but it doesn't seem to be in the archive: http://dric.nrct.go.th/bookdetail.php?book_id=111821

The following manual from tropical Queensland may include some weeds common to Thailand:

http://www.wettropics.gov.au/site/user-assets/docs/FNQWeedBook.PDF

It includes some exotic grasses that are grown here for forage, namely elephant grass, guinea grass and para grass.

I see on page 4 they say "Positive identification of weeds is difficult!". That's for sure!

Googling weed thailand brings up a lot of cannabis sites!

"Major Weeds of Thailand" http://link.springer.com/article/10.1007%2FBF02858964 Needs some dollars to access.

"Weeds of Plantation Crops in Southern Thailand" www.natres.psu.ac.th/Department/PlantScience/weed/weedinplantation.htm

This IRRI guide "A Practical Field Guide to Weeds of Rice in Asia" probably includes a lot of weeds found in other crops like corn... https://books.google.la/books?id=LaJg-owvGdQC&dq=inauthor:%22National+Weed+Science+Research+Institute+Project+(Thailand)%22&source=gbs_book_similarbooks

This should be useful: "Weed Science and Weed Control in Southeast Asia" - https://books.google.la/books?id=eAzGwEDvFdIC&dq=inauthor:%22National+Weed+Science+Research+Institute+Project+(Thailand)%22&source=gbs_book_similarbooks

"Weeds of soybean fields in Thailand" http://catalog.hathitrust.org/Record/010519458

"The Major Arthropod Pests and Weeds of Agriculture in Southeast Asia:Distribution, Importance and Origin" http://223.27.200.5/aciar.gov.au/files/node/2136/mn21_pdf_16395.pdf

This Pioneer corn growing guide for the Philippines mentions another herbicide, Pendimethaline:

https://www.pioneer.com/home/site/philippines/farming/hybrid-corn-production-guide/

Page 18 of this baby corn growing guide mentions some other herbicides: http://www.volkerkleinhenz.com/publications/baby-corn-production-processing-and-marketing-in-thailand/baby-corn-production-processing-and-marketing-in-thailand.pdf

...and so on.

In the US and I assume Europe, etc, they have phone apps that can be used to identify weeds. I guess one day we'll see the same for SE Asia.

I agree that applying gramoxone to bare earth would be a waste of money; if there were some weed seedlings already growing it would make sense.

[Ron19]

This is a neighbors corn patch I think of around 2 rai and prepared the way I prefer it done. This had a fair amount of weeds showing and these were turned over with a 6 disc unit and then after the next lot of weeds came through done again with a rotary hoe.When weeds were showing again it was seeded and that is what you see here, following rains have been good.

Here is the same patch showing emerging corn with good germination and not a weed in sight.

This farmer usually gets a good crop from this patch with the only problem perhaps being wind damage.

The same patch coming along just fine.

[kickstart]

Atrazine is an herbicide that is used to stop pre- and postemergence broadleaf and grassy weeds in crops such as sorghum, maize, sugarcane, lupins, pine, and eucalypt plantations, and triazine-tolerant canola

Round here Atrazine is applied with Gramoxone,as a preemergence with Gramoxone ,sprayed no later than 5 days after drilling never could see the point of Gramoxone,would have thought ,soon as it hit the bare soil it will neutralize itself.

Thanks KS for correcting me. My mistake for not reading much beyond the first part of that wiki page. However I see here http://www.syngenta.com/global/corporate/en/products-and-innovation/product-brands/crop-protection/herbicides/Pages/gesaprim-aatrex.aspx that it says Gesaprim (Syngenta's brand name for atrazine) "controls some annual grasses", so I take this to mean that it does not control all (annual) grasses. If so, this might explain why you've had problems with grass weeds? I don't know. Perhaps one way to find out would to identify the species of grass growing in your corn and then find out if these species are ones not controlled by atrazine. Back in our home countries they have weed identification guides, but here I don't know if such guides are available? I think the chemical companies, like Syngenta, might be able to help. It could be worth contacting their Thai HQ to find out (http://www3.syngenta.com/country/th/en/contactus/Pages/contactus.aspx).

I just found this "The application of expert systems for weed identification in Thailand" but it doesn't seem to be in the archive: http://dric.nrct.go.th/bookdetail.php?book_id=111821

The following manual from tropical Queensland may include some weeds common to Thailand:

http://www.wettropics.gov.au/site/user-assets/docs/FNQWeedBook.PDF

It includes some exotic grasses that are grown here for forage, namely elephant grass, guinea grass and para grass.

I see on page 4 they say "Positive identification of weeds is difficult!". That's for sure!

Googling weed thailand brings up a lot of cannabis sites!

"Major Weeds of Thailand" http://link.springer.com/article/10.1007%2FBF02858964 Needs some dollars to access.

"Weeds of Plantation Crops in Southern Thailand" www.natres.psu.ac.th/Department/PlantScience/weed/weedinplantation.htm

This IRRI guide "A Practical Field Guide to Weeds of Rice in Asia" probably includes a lot of weeds found in other crops like corn... https://books.google.la/books?id=LaJg-owvGdQC&dq=inauthor:%22National+Weed+Science+Research+Institute+Project+(Thailand)%22&source=gbs_book_similarbooks

This should be useful: "Weed Science and Weed Control in Southeast Asia" - https://books.google.la/books?id=eAzGwEDvFdIC&dq=inauthor:%22National+Weed+Science+Research+Institute+Project+(Thailand)%22&source=gbs_book_similarbooks

"Weeds of soybean fields in Thailand" http://catalog.hathitrust.org/Record/010519458

"The Major Arthropod Pests and Weeds of Agriculture in Southeast Asia:Distribution, Importance and Origin" http://223.27.200.5/aciar.gov.au/files/node/2136/mn21_pdf_16395.pdf

This Pioneer corn growing guide for the Philippines mentions another herbicide, Pendimethaline:

https://www.pioneer.com/home/site/philippines/farming/hybrid-corn-production-guide/

Page 18 of this baby corn growing guide mentions some other herbicides: http://www.volkerkleinhenz.com/publications/baby-corn-production-processing-and-marketing-in-thailand/baby-corn-production-processing-and-marketing-in-thailand.pdf

...and so on.

In the US and I assume Europe, etc, they have phone apps that can be used to identify weeds. I guess one day we'll see the same for SE Asia.

I agree that applying gramoxone to bare earth would be a waste of money; if there were some weed seedlings already growing it would make sense.

A good report and some usfull links thank you, as for identifying weeds,,most of the time, I use the misses ,she knows most of them, by the Thai name ,a few have Kwie (buffalo) in them must have been used to feed buffalo many years ago.

You quoat Elephant grass, Guinie grass ,Para grass ,as I said before my field is with cattle, and these grasses are use to feed cattle ,we grow Nappier grass ,a very close relative to Elephant grass,and I used atrozin as a pre emergent when planting,we have both Guine and Para grass,growing wild, and atrazine would not have much/any effect, I strugle to kill them with a strong dose of Round up especially para grass.

As Farmerjoe said the land was to dry when drilled ,to use atrozin,a problem I had also. .

It seems to me with atrozin you must do what it says on the box ,conditons at time of application are very important for it to work and I wonder how many many people have used atrozine,at the wrong time and coditions,it did not work, and blamed the chemical ,can not hit it and hope .unlike round up and gromoxne.where coditions at application are not so importaint.

Yours Regs

KS

[BSJ]

It's raining here but will we get the 2" we need? The last good rain shower barely wet the ground in the mango orchard....actually the rain never got to the bottom part!

The whole district is waiting for good rain to move to the next step in paddie production. This is my first year directly involved in lice. So far it's been easy, a contactor disc ploughed and I watched from the comfort of the sala!

[farmerjo]

Well been away for two weeks and will post some photos tomorrow(computer playing up)

Hope everyone is getting plenty of rain.

All the maize in the the area which was planted mid-end of may looks a treat.