Family insistence upon a nickname

[Your Thainess]

What's your experience with this?

We just welcomed our first child, a healthy baby girl. Couldn't be prouder or more relieved.

Months ago, we decided to give the child a first name that was neither English nor Thai, but a well-known and classy name from a third language. We also decided my wife's surname would be the child's middle name and she would have my surname.

The first name we chose very carefully to make sure that it could be pronounced and spelled easily in both English and Thai, that it did not sound strange in either language, that most people would recognize it and its origin, and so forth. We went ahead and told my family the plan, and they were delighted. My wife decided to wait to tell family about our intended name.

We had some discussions and mutually agreed that we would not give the child a nickname, until such time that it seemed she had 'earned' it or it felt natural for us. I am well aware that nicknames are pretty much universal in Thailand, and believe me, I'm not one to dismiss others' cultural norms out of hand. My wife agreed that since we had mutually chosen a dignified given name, we would try to use it for as long as possible without giving too much thought to a nickname. Or, maybe she'd never have one. Who knows.

At some point in the future, maybe we would begin using a diminutive if it felt right to us. Or, maybe someday her friends would give her a nickname. We thought it would be better than just something random given at birth. My wife dislikes her nickname, although she is too nice to have ever told anyone in the family. So did I, but I was lucky enough not to be stuck with it for life! We both firmly agreed that if the family pressured us to give the child a nickname, we would decide together, and it had to be related to her actual name (i.e., not Ploypailin --> 'Namphung'). We also agreed my wife would explain this to the family, who would understand. They are easygoing folks all around.

So, after the birth, family comes to visit right away, wonderful. One of the small cousins observes, "She looks like an angel" and just like that, murmurs begin that she should be called 'Fah', or for the time being 'Nong Fah'. Cute, I admit.

Grandma shows up a few days later, asks the baby's name. We show it to her spelled in Thai, she pronounces it correctly a few times--we confirm that she's pronounced it perfectly--and suddenly she claims it is too difficult to pronounce and the child will be known as 'Fah', it's settled. This is not a woman who is known for imposing her will on other people at all, I was just dumbstruck. My wife just shrugs her shoulders.

The name we chose, Daphne, is not hard for Thai speakers to pronounce. Being non-Thai does not make it hard to pronounce. Being unusual in this country does not make it hard to pronounce. Anyhow, to make it easier on people not used to an /f/ sound at the end of a syllable, we spelled it with a /p/ instead. So, "Dap-nee". How many Thai names do you know that end with 'nee'? Loads.

I'm not pissed off or anything, but I do feel a bit pushed to accept the naming of my own child being taken out of my hands. I've asked my wife, and she agreed, that we will not use 'Fah', though family are welcome to do so if they like. We will also not indicate a nickname for use at school eventually, unless the child asks to be called that by her own choosing. I also asked that family show us the respect of calling her by her proper name when conversing with me. I know that no one is trying to show any disrespect. But, don't people ever think about the feelings of the parents?

Like I said, I'm not so much bothered as I am bewildered. We had a plan regarding the inevitable nickname, and now it's fallen through quite quickly.

What has your experience with this been like? Thanks for sharing your thoughts...

[benalibina]

When our son was due to be born we spoke about a name. I thought that it should be a name to be pronounced easily for thai people. Benjamin.

3 months after he was born, and I was gonna leave back home the day after, my wife started to mention about a nickname. No way I thought....just call him Ben, short enough.

2 months later I came back and I had heard the same day...a strange word for the inlaws to use but never gave it any thought. The day after I heard the use of that word again when a 11 yr old niece adressed our 5 month old son. I was flabbergasted.....I asked...why you call him like that ? Ohhhhh that is his nickname she said. I immediately spoke to my sons mother...asked <deleted> is that ? She repeated .....his nickname... I nearly fell off the chair I was sitting on. I asked what do you think is the capital of Afghanistan ? Rolling eyes....with questionmarks. Explained to her that Afghanistan is a country in Asia predominently inhabitated by Muslim people and in lots of turmoil. To note ....all this explaining took a while ....for all i adressed it to, to understand my take on the nickname issue and the given name during my absence..

Later....it was Min.....its all a shambles...but I stopped fighting against it.

[Costas2008]

Daphne.......what a lovely name......and Greek also.

Always wanted to call my daughter that name but at the end we opted out, after a lot of persuasion, for my mothers name that was Ourania.

Now be careful as God Apollo will be after her, according to the Greek Mythology.

As about Fah, please try to resist giving Daphne that nick name.

Can you imagine if later she goes to school in the UK the kids will add a ck at the end of her name.

God forbid......you don't want that

Put your foot down and don't accept it.

Wish you, your wife and Daphne, all the happiness and health in your lives.

[Aforek]

As for Ben, it's a normal nickname in Thai, why you are offended ?

my girlfriend's name is Benjamaporn, every body calls her Ben, it's also a boy name

as for Fa, again, why are you upset ? her official name will be Daphne and everybody will call her Fa, very easy to pronounce here, and Thai people like one

syllabe name ; many nicknames are choosen when the baby is born ; Lek, dam, daeng

[benalibina]

As for Ben, it's a normal nickname in Thai, why you are offended ?

my girlfriend's name is Benjamaporn, every body calls her Ben, it's also a boy name

as for Fa, again, why are you upset ? her official name will be Daphne and everybody will call her Fa, very easy to pronounce here, and Thai people like one

syllabe name ; many nicknames are choosen when the baby is born ; Lek, dam, daeng

Please....reread my comment.

[Your Thainess]

As for Ben, it's a normal nickname in Thai, why you are offended ?

my girlfriend's name is Benjamaporn, every body calls her Ben, it's also a boy name

as for Fa, again, why are you upset ? her official name will be Daphne and everybody will call her Fa, very easy to pronounce here, and Thai people like one

syllabe name ; many nicknames are choosen when the baby is born ; Lek, dam, daeng

Benalibina, you beat me to it.

Aforek, while you're re-reading his post please re-read mine as well.

[JB300]

As for Ben, it's a normal nickname in Thai, why you are offended ?

my girlfriend's name is Benjamaporn, every body calls her Ben, it's also a boy name

as for Fa, again, why are you upset ? her official name will be Daphne and everybody will call her Fa, very easy to pronounce here, and Thai people like one

syllabe name ; many nicknames are choosen when the baby is born ; Lek, dam, daeng

Please....reread my comment.

So the nickname they chose for your son was Kabul? That is a strange nn! Edited April 26, 2015 by JB300

[canuckamuck]

Some of our kids have nicknames which are actually the names we gave them but the government said they couldn't have those names officially. we ignore the official names, except for paperwork and school stuff. I have forgotten those names on occasion, which is bad when you are in line at the hospital waiting to hear a name called out.

My sister in law gave her kid a name my wife thinks is stupid. So my wife uses a different name for her. I am working on getting her to stop doing that as there's is no way she would put up with that if the roles were reversed.

[benalibina]

As for Ben, it's a normal nickname in Thai, why you are offended ?

my girlfriend's name is Benjamaporn, every body calls her Ben, it's also a boy name

as for Fa, again, why are you upset ? her official name will be Daphne and everybody will call her Fa, very easy to pronounce here, and Thai people like one

syllabe name ; many nicknames are choosen when the baby is born ; Lek, dam, daeng

Please....reread my comment.

So the nickname they chose for your son was Kabul? That is a strange nn!

Min is a good nickname as he'll probably get the nickname Ben if you ever take him to UK/US

Yes it was a very strange nickname....hence my comment. And google did not need to be my friend at the time. Whilst thinking more about it, he has been called....Jamin...too, for a while. This was before the Min period....later it has been Ben mixed with Benjamin.

[Your Thainess]

Interesting. I've heard mention of government regulations on naming, perhaps on this board in the past. What made the names you chose unsuitable, legally, if you don't mind me asking?

Makes me wonder, what if I had just decided my daughter's intended name to be her nickname and then told family to take the honor of giving her a Thai first name...maybe I'll take another strategy next time around.

[MaeJoMTB]

At least it's better than 'farang noi'.

[MaeJoMTB]

Interesting. I've heard mention of government regulations on naming, perhaps on this board in the past. What made the names you chose unsuitable, legally, if you don't mind me asking?

Waived for foreigner parent.

Most Amphur offices will put down anything you like, registration must be done within 14 days of the birth.

Congratulations by the way!

Edited April 26, 2015 by MaeJoMTB

[MaeJoMTB]

Later....it was Min.....its all a shambles...but I stopped fighting against it.

Ben and Min are both girls' nicknames.

[BFerearnk]

Do anyone of the posters here above new why they use a nickname in Th. Can tell you it's NOT seen as a joke in Th.

[benalibina]

Later....it was Min.....its all a shambles...but I stopped fighting against it.

Ben and Min are both girls' nicknames.

Min ...I knew that.....Ben.....thats a new one for me....

[BFerearnk]

off topic

I do understand that in the big joy of having your first child, you dont want "in your eyes" a wrong nickname.

Understand please !!! and that in the most cases ... THE MORE YOU ARGE, The more resistantense you bild up. BIG SMILE... YES + shaking heads You happy and they do what they want. Surely in this case, if the oldest directfamely women dicide. In Th it looks like the men are the chefs but in realety the women do for sure in the famely.

[canuckamuck]

Interesting. I've heard mention of government regulations on naming, perhaps on this board in the past. What made the names you chose unsuitable, legally, if you don't mind me asking?

Makes me wonder, what if I had just decided my daughter's intended name to be her nickname and then told family to take the honor of giving her a Thai first name...maybe I'll take another strategy next time around.

My kids names are fairly common western names, but some were allowed and some weren't. For example the name David was rejected. I think it is up to the discretion of the clerk or their supervisor. Luck of the draw. Quite likely a couple of baht might have changed the outcome, but my wife is not quick to part with coin. Anyhow we call them what we chose to call them and if they want they can get rid of the official names when they are older.

[pinkpanther99]

Whilst I'm living in Thailand I'm always respectful of Thais and Thai culture, however, there was simply no way I was going to let anyone other than my wife have a say when it came to naming our daughter.

We did the same as you, we chose a very typically British name, which is easy to pronounce for both Thai and English speakers but one which can also easily be shortened.

There's no nickname, no Thai name, no middle name, just my daughters name, that's enough.

If I were you I'd politely inform Yai and the rest of the family that as the father you have the absolute final say in this matter.

Like I say, don't be rude about it or confrontational, and I'm not one for going up against Thai culture (as an expat you've got to learn to let somethings go) but when it comes to your own kids, you've got every right to say what's what.

Good luck!

[xen]

Do anyone of the posters here above new why they use a nickname in Th. Can tell you it's NOT seen as a joke in Th.

I remember reading in Dennis Segllars book - "Thai Ways " that nik names are given so if a spirit wants to make mischief it will attach itself to the nik name and not to the real idenity . A decoy so as to speak. There are probably other explanations as well.

[canuckamuck]

Do anyone of the posters here above new why they use a nickname in Th. Can tell you it's NOT seen as a joke in Th.

I remember reading in Dennis Segllars book - "Thai Ways " that nik names are given so if a spirit wants to make mischief it will attach itself to the nik name and not to the real idenity . A decoy so as to speak. There are probably other explanations as well.

I am always amazed at the gullibility of Thai spirits. It's amazing they can find their way back to those ugly birdhouses they live in.

[recycler]

In Thailand, I think even by law, a name must have a meaning. They often accept half half farang kids to have in their eyes fantasy names, but that doesn't take a way the families urge to have a nickname that has a meaning to them.

We choose a short, easy to pronounce and very international name for our daughter and so far there has been no need for a nickname from any of the Thai family. But googling it recently I think her name has some slang meaning in the realm of fun and naughty.

[recom273]

Later....it was Min.....its all a shambles...but I stopped fighting against it.

Ben and Min are both girls' nicknames.

Ben - Is a boys name, it's derived from Mercedes Benz. There is also Benjawan, which is a girls name - I would say that Thais shorten names to arrive at nicknames, but you may be right.

OP - stick to you guns, I don't know how your going to proceed. Daphne is a perfectly acceptable name, I know lots of kids with western names - Molly, Liam, David - it's just your families reluctance to accept something new.

I don't know how Thais come up with these names, they are always 'nit noy' or 'ouan', Angels 'fah' they are always going to either cost a lot or make you rich hence the money and bank connections - I'm understand the luxury car names - I'm waiting for Ducati to arrive, but what about Donut and Bus ?

[Just1Voice]

I have one 18 year old Thai niece who has the nickname of Donut, or just Nut for short.

I have one 17 year old Thai niece who has the nickname of Sai.

I have no clue as to what their legal names are. Have never heard them used or mentioned.

My 32 year old, adopted Thai son has a legal name that I obviously know, but everyone calls him Peter. When I asked my wife how that came about, she said she doesn't remember, but it's always been Peter. The day I adopted him, on his own, he legally changed his last name from his Thai father's name to my last name. So, here's a young Thai/Chinese man with the name Peter Marsh. Kinda cool, actually.

[prakhonchai nick]

One of the most beautiful girls I ever saw, and who worked for a bank in Pattaya was called MOO.(pig)

A neighbours daughter is nicknamed PIH, which when translated means pussy!

Then there are all the other ridiculous nicknames that families use. We have an EM and EN in my village, who play with WAN and WAAN.

[ScottMallon]

Where cultures clash...however...

This is your child and your wife's child, not theirs. In my book, that means despite the cultural necessity to attach a nickname to the child, you should have the final say. As one of the other poster's stated, put your foot down. Personally, I'd make it a point to not bring her around if they continue to call her "Fah." It's disrespectful to disregard your wishes and your wife's.

BTW - I have two sons. We call one by his middle name and the other by his given name. Any nicknames we have ever used have been nicknames my wife and I have agreed on.

Again, and despite what granny thinks, she is your daughter, not hers. It's a shame they feel the need to push this on her when it's against your wishes but if you don't put your foot down now, expect more of the same in the future.

Edited April 27, 2015 by ScottMallon

[keestha]

I choose the name Kimberley for my daughter, knowing that Kim, which it inevitably becomes anywhere, is easy to pronounce for Thais.

Would have hated a nickname like Toy or Nok or Moo or whatever.

Some Farang names are really unpronounceable for Thais, for instance if you don't like nicknames you shouldn't call your son Raoul.

[richard_smith237]

We chose Jamie, expecting that 'J' or 'Jay' would become the shortened version pronounceable by the Thai and Thai Chinese in the family....

To my surprise Jamie has stuck.... 'Jay-mieeee'

I wouldn't like the idea of someone else choosing a nickname for our son. I'd dig my heels in a cry inappropriateness if that happened. Fortunately inlaws are quite respectful and receptive to our wishes.

Edited April 27, 2015 by richard_smith237

[romeijoe]

When our son was due to be born we spoke about a name. I thought that it should be a name to be pronounced easily for thai people. Benjamin.

3 months after he was born, and I was gonna leave back home the day after, my wife started to mention about a nickname. No way I thought....just call him Ben, short enough.

2 months later I came back and I had heard the same day...a strange word for the inlaws to use but never gave it any thought. The day after I heard the use of that word again when a 11 yr old niece adressed our 5 month old son. I was flabbergasted.....I asked...why you call him like that ? Ohhhhh that is his nickname she said. I immediately spoke to my sons mother...asked <deleted> is that ? She repeated .....his nickname... I nearly fell off the chair I was sitting on. I asked what do you think is the capital of Afghanistan ? Rolling eyes....with questionmarks. Explained to her that Afghanistan is a country in Asia predominently inhabitated by Muslim people and in lots of turmoil. To note ....all this explaining took a while ....for all i adressed it to, to understand my take on the nickname issue and the given name during my absence..

Later....it was Min.....its all a shambles...but I stopped fighting against it.

you got to laugh sometimes our son was named adrian after my mother, wife agreed because she wanted an english name for the boy--- and as per usual before he had even left the hospital he was nick named AD as in a -dee . luckily it dosent bother me. and it would be too bad if it did i suspect lol

[carter1882]

Thai names and naming can tell you a huge amount about the culture of the country. Their meanings, how the naming is done, the history of Thai surnames etc all form a rich tapestry from ages past to the present day. I suppose this is true of most cultures. I chose English/American names for my kids and no one gave them nicknames though i must have called my daughter many different things over the years. Both my wives took it as entirely natural that i would name the kids. But i thought that the OP has overreacted a bit when so concerned about others choosing a nickname. He can call her Daphne and they can call her Fah. The name i call my wife and the name the family calls her is completely different, so what. When it comes to names, relax and see what sticks.

[fred Kubasa]

I am still confused as to how those Thais with big money and checking

accounts can fit their names on checks without using at least 2 of those tiny spaces ?