How much trouble am I in?

[krdowney]

American, 49, non-immigrant F visa holder (well not as of Tuesday)

I am a lecturer at Thammasat University. My three month non-Immigrant F visa expired on April 28th. On March 20th, I asked my department to file for the standard extension because my new contract would not be signed until late May or early June. I was just told this week not to worry about the extension because I have a valid contract and work permit, and that they would take care of the visa when my new contract is signed in a month or so. I don’t believe that they’re correct, but but I don’t know. But they have messed up my last three visas. What should I expect when I go to Chaeng Wattana in late May, around 30 days into overstay? And should I go to Chaeng Wattana do my 90-day report even though the visa says it has expired and I am late because I expected to do an extension?

[Mario2008]

You are on overstay and illegally in the country, which carries a fine of 500 baht a day with a maximum of 20,000 baht. (If you get picked-up t the street during a check, you will go to immigration jail and be deported, after you have paid the fine and paid for a ticket back home).

A few days overstay is normally not a problem, you just get fined and than get the extension and I suspect that Thammasat University has good connections. A month long overstay will however be a fine of 15,000 baht and you will probably told to leave the country and apply again for a visa abroad.

[krdowney]

This is what I think too. Why is the department being so obstinate about it? I'm not just talking to the admin staff but the head of the department. They just smile and say everything is fine. And I cannot make them do my paperwork, they are aware of the situation.

[Mario2008]

With such a big university I suspect they trust on their connections that it will not be a problem.

[krdowney]

Should I trust them too? I mean, really I'm just another farang with a PhD from a really good school. That means I'm basically the same as a Burmese house boy to them, right?

[skatewash]

Of course the department isn't worried, they're not the ones who are subject to deportation and have a 500 Baht a day fine accumulating against them. There's no above-board way of getting an extension on something that has already expired that I know of.

I would be inclined to go to the department and ask for the paperwork to obtain a new F Visa, go to the airport and fly out of Thailand, pay the overstay fine at the airport (which at this point is minimal), apply at an embassy or consulate outside of Thailand and return after obtaining a new visa. But it's easy for me to say that since I don't need the job. They've placed you in a difficult position due to their incompetence.

I would not go to immigration to do your 90 day report while you are on overstay. The failure to do a 90 day report is only a 2,000 fine (up to 5,000, if they believe it was willful). If you went to immigration office they would be much more interested in your overstay status. That fine, is 500 Baht a day, up to a maximum of 20,000. I suspect you might be subject to paying that fine immediately. Not sure what happens after that as you're still on overstay.

[Time Traveller]

The answer to 90 day report question is yes do it.

Once I did a 90 day report, and it turned out I shouldn't have even been in the country, but that fact was not picked up by immigration. What will be picked up is if you don't do the report.

The reason I was in that situation was because I left my visa/permission to stay in the hands of the company's HR dept and beleived everything they told me. Big Mistake. Since then I do all the visa stuff myself. Never let the immigration speak to another thai person about your case. Otherwise, important information you will need to know will be told to the Thai HR person by the immigration official and then never get passed on to you.

If there's any mistake, it's you who pays the price - possibly even by deportation - not the HR people who claim to be taking care of it for you.

[krdowney]

Yup. They won't let us do it ourselves. The application requires letters from the dean and the rector. I think I'm just gonna pack up and leave. It's not like teaching Political Science in this country doesn't put me at enough risk.

[Time Traveller]

Yup. They won't let us do it ourselves. The application requires letters from the dean and the rector. I think I'm just gonna pack up and leave. It's not like teaching Political Science in this country doesn't put me at enough risk.

You can explain the situation and request the letters yourself. My other employers have been sympathetic once you explain why. In fact, they may even appreciate having one less responsibility

[casualbiker]

What's an F visa?

[krdowney]

Expert visa

[Lite Beer]

What's an F visa?

Official Visa “F”- For foreigners who will perform official duties involving the Thai government.

http://www.thaiembassy.com/thailand/thailand-visa-benefits.php

[casualbiker]

^^^ OK. Strange that a university uses that visa for a lecturer.. Isn't it?

[RolandRat]

The most worrying factor, is the random check or accident resulting in you being placed in a detention centre, that wont be an experience you'll forget in a hurry.

I think Post no.7 has it right, pack, leave, pay the overstay at the airport on the way out. Take it from there.

Good luck ! you have been placed in an awful dilemma, not of your making.

[krdowney]

yeah. this place.

(sorry)

[watcharacters]

The most worrying factor, is the random check or accident resulting in you being placed in a detention centre, that wont be an experience you'll forget in a hurry.

I think Post no.7 has it right, pack, leave, pay the overstay at the airport on the way out. Take it from there.

Good luck ! you have been placed in an awful dilemma, not of your making.

"The most worrying factor, is the random check or accident resulting in you being placed in a detention centre, that wont be an experience you'll forget in a hurry."

​That sounds right to me. I don't think I'd drive a car or motorbike in the meantime if possible to avoid.

I'd also avoid staying in a new hotel since I've been asked at several of them on what page in my passport is my visa.

[krdowney]

all are easily avoidable for a month

[ben2203]

Should I trust them too? I mean, really I'm just another farang with a PhD from a really good school. That means I'm basically the same as a Burmese house boy to them, right?

It's probably more so arrogance and jealousy, you probably have what is considered to be a very high salary which means that you have to take a considerable amount of flack and jump through numerous hoops for their gratification, regardless of your background.

Personally, I would just apply for a visa extension yourself, if they refuse to give you one without the necessary paperwork from Thammasat, leave the country and come back in which effectively cancels the non-immigrant F visa and puts you on a tourist visa and save yourself a lot of hassle and money, though you're still essentially forking out for the trip.

By the way, Chinese Universities actually pay a significant amount more than Thai universities.

Actually, this is kinda ludicrous, an American PhD holder from a reputable western university is getting given the run around and given false information and made to renew his contract every year.

[digitalchromakey]

Just a thought, you state that you are on a 90 day Non Immigrant Category F Visa (assumed single entry), was this obtained at a Thai Consular Facility outside of Thailand and if so what date were you admitted back into Thailand until - 28th April?

Or are you in fact already on a 90 day National Police Order 327/2557 Case 2.15 Extension (In the case of a skilled labourer or a medical expert or a practitioner of other professions for the purpose of transferring knowledge to Thai people) obtained from your local Thai Immigration Department as you mention problems on three previous occasions?

[Guest]

You need to put on your "Thai Bureaucrat Hat" on or a moment. (A tight fit for sure)

They do not know or care about how your paperwork got to this state ... they "do the math" and apply the fines.

There is no point in going to " Chaeng Wattana do my 90-day report even though the visa says it has expired."

That is all they know. (or care about)

So .. why put yourself through the aggravation and pay them the penalty .. and run the risk of:

(1) having a meaningful and negative escalation at that point

(2) Paying the late fee ... only to have immigration at the airport demand the same fee (Which they very well may.

(3) Please heed the advice of others in this thread .. there is a world of difference between a few day careless overstay ... and 30 days. A very big difference.

You are a PhD at a top University.

I would:

Write a letter and put it in the hands (or in-box) of the President of the university, human resources, your direct boss .. etc and simply explain that ...

A month a go you gave them fair warning that your visa needed attention and supporting paperwork.

Therefore, the only avenue to adhere to the laws of the Kingdom is for you to leave Thailand and do the rest of this outside her borders. You have enjoyed lecturing at the University and have every hope that this issue can be resolved to continue your tenure.

(4) Wait a day, see if you get a reply / solution. Thai people sometimes need to see the writing on the wall in pretty big letters before they do something about a problem. If no reply ... go see your boss, let them know you are flying out in the morning .. and thank them for all they have done. (Biting down on tongue will help here...)

(5) get to the airport much ahead of your flight to allow maximum time to resolve the overstay. Make sure you have the cash. It really sends a message if you have the exact amount of the fine prepared, it says "Gents, i know the system and here is the money ... do not try to pump up the volume on this."

Just go on holiday close by .. you will be back in the Kingdom soon.

[realenglish1]

Since you are without a visa then there is No need to report. You will be fined at the airport . There is no way the University can extend your visa within Thailand

You are going to need to redo you F visa out of the country and pay for the overstay

This is the only solution Why is the University so anal ?

[bobthomas]

It would be interesting to see what happens here. It is Thailand and just maybe the University can get this fixed. But then perhaps I am asking for too much.

hmm

b

[krdowney]

Our contracts are year to year. Mine is up in June and they have no responsibility to renew, and there is no severance pay at the university, but they are forcing me out. One of the admin staff has already tried to get me fired and failed, and she is involved in the visa process. She tried to block my new contract and failed so now she is trying to get me thrown out of the country. Honestly, I'm tired of it. I don't care if I am foreign and don't have a king, I am a lecturer with a PhD (from a real school) and deserve better than this.

[TerryLH]

"But before doing anything, consult a lawyer. "

And ask them what?

[digitalchromakey]

Our contracts are year to year. Mine is up in June and they have no responsibility to renew, and there is no severance pay at the university, but they are forcing me out. One of the admin staff has already tried to get me fired and failed, and she is involved in the visa process. She tried to block my new contract and failed so now she is trying to get me thrown out of the country. Honestly, I'm tired of it. I don't care if I am foreign and don't have a king, I am a lecturer with a PhD (from a real school) and deserve better than this.

Whether you are on a 90 day Category 'F' visa entry or an extension of permission to stay, if the permission to stay in your passport was up on the 28th of April, then you are on an overstay, the WP doesn't help.

You have stated that you have issues with a person in admin who may well be going to great lengths to make things difficult for you.

Stay in Thailand for 30 days on overstay and the overstay fine alone will be 15,000 THB, soon reaching a maximum of 20,000, plus there is the potential risk of capture, detention in the IDC (not a pleasant place to stay fro even one night), court fine then deportation.

Leave and re-enter Thailand by air tomorrow. You will be fined 1,000 THB and can come back the next day or later and you should get a 30 day visa exempt entry without any issue - this will hopefully give you enough time to sort out things with your employer one way or the other (but be aware that you work permit is technically invalid if you are not on an extension or valid non immigrant visa entry).

[Guest]

Our contracts are year to year. Mine is up in June and they have no responsibility to renew, and there is no severance pay at the university, but they are forcing me out. One of the admin staff has already tried to get me fired and failed, and she is involved in the visa process. She tried to block my new contract and failed so now she is trying to get me thrown out of the country. Honestly, I'm tired of it. I don't care if I am foreign and don't have a king, I am a lecturer with a PhD (from a real school) and deserve better than this.

Double post deleted.

[krdowney]

I have to wait until Sunday because I teach my final exam review on Saturday. I have the tickets bought and will book the hotel as soon as my money clears to my US account tomorrow. I will pay 2500B in overstay, take two days and come back through Don Meuang. When the head of the department returns from his overseas trip, he and I will have a discussion about how long he can maintain his "International Program" if they drive out the international professors?

Actually, there are a lot of foreigners who are running around with some kind of advanced degree. Teaching is secondary to having any white face at the front of the class. I am completely expendable.

[Guest]

Our contracts are year to year. Mine is up in June and they have no responsibility to renew, and there is no severance pay at the university, but they are forcing me out. One of the admin staff has already tried to get me fired and failed, and she is involved in the visa process. She tried to block my new contract and failed so now she is trying to get me thrown out of the country. Honestly, I'm tired of it. I don't care if I am foreign and don't have a king, I am a lecturer with a PhD (from a real school) and deserve better than this.

Oh ... thanks so much for the 'rest of the story."

May have been nice to tell us this part instead of wasting our time.

Now the answer is so much easier.

Your visa has expired. The only solution is go to airport, pay fine and leave. The sooner the better, it is costing you 500 THB a day hanging out here, and making your re-entry status worse by the minute.

Why I wrote you a full page reply before ... is now lost on me.

You have been let go.

Move on.... and come back on a tourist stamp if you like a vacation.

[evadgib]

When this is over the OP should look into opening a limited partnership. Unless the rules have changed this generates a WP that enables the holder to 'sub-contract themselves in' wherever they choose and eliminates the ability to actually be fired.

HTH

[Guest]

I have to wait until Sunday because I teach my final exam review on Saturday. I have the tickets bought and will book the hotel as soon as my money clears to my US account tomorrow. I will pay 2500B in overstay, take two days and come back through Don Meuang. When the head of the department returns from his overseas trip, he and I will have a discussion about how long he can maintain his "International Program" if they drive out the international professors?

Dear KR,

You began this framed in the context of an administrative error that precipitated an overstay.

Slowly but surely you have let us in on the real story, which is that for whatever reason ... the University has chosen the path of least resistance to bid you farewell.

Judging form your consistant messsage that you are a PhD and ".... how long he can maintain his "International Program" if they drive out the international professors?..." has a slight scent of arrogance ... as though you are the only PhD who would like to lecture in one of the Kingdom's premier Universities.

The queue for your slot is long, and rich with others with the same papers .. and perhaps the proper attitude and respect it takes to work with Thai People in hard won positions of authority.

Please let us know how it goes when you sit your boss down and explain to him how it all stops here .. if you go down the road.

You asked for advice, and I will give you more.

Step One: Remove chip from shoulder.

Yes. Do meet with your boss. Use the correct language, learn the correct wai for your superiors, use the correct tone of voice, use the correct eye contact.

In other words, acknowledge that this is no accident, and how you could return and better fulfill your role.

You may be pleasantly surprised how Thai People react to the correct level of respect with a dash of humility ... and ask them to mentor you.

Best of luck, safe travels.