Study to assess rail link to Den Chai in North

[Lite Beer]

TRANSPORTATION
Study to assess rail link to Den Chai in North
AYUTHAI NONNITIRAT
THE SUNDAY NATION

BANGKOK: -- THE feasibility study for a double-track rail line from Chiang Mai to Den Chai district in Phrae should be completed in about a year and the move has spurred hope that the "northern capital" will become a tourism hub.

About Bt117 million has been set aside for the study and design of the one-metre gauge railway. This line is part of the country's infrastructure development plan for 2015-23.

During the first public hearing on the project, held recently in Chiang Mai, Chaiwat Thongkamkoon, deputy head of the Office of Transport and Traffic Policy and Planning, said the route would help boost double-track rail lines in other parts of the country.

There are about 4,000 kilometres of tracks nationwide but only 2 per cent of them are double lines. The new lines will help expand transport capacity in the North.

Three routes are under consideration. The first option is a 217km link outlined along with the existing route. Trains could run at speeds of up to 90km per hour.

The second option is similar to the first except that some parts of the 206km route would be adjusted to have more curves in a bid to carry trains at speeds of up to 120kmh.

The third option is a 170km route so trains can travel at up to 160kmh.

All three options will include the stretch linking Phrae's Den Chai district, Lamphun, Lampang and Chiang Mai provinces, which will connect with the double-track railroad for the route connecting Den Chai, Nakhon Sawan's Pak Nam Pho section and Lop Buri.

When the study is completed, the authorities would know what the different routes will cost and which should be selected.

"I believe this route can be a choice for domestic transit and also a link with neighbouring countries in response to the Asean Economic Community's full implementation at the end of this year," Chaiwat said.

The project will give importance to environmental impact, engineering practicality and economic spin-offs.

Nawin Sintusa-ard, vice governor of Chiang Mai, said the rail link to Den Chai supports the province's urban plan that promotes the northern Lanna culture as the soul of the North's tourism and international trade.

Source: http://www.nationmultimedia.com/national/Study-to-assess-rail-link-to-Den-Chai-in-North-30259224.html

-- The Nation 2015-05-03

[ExPratt]

None of this Makes sense

Three routes are under consideration. The first option is a 217km link outlined along with the existing route. Trains could run at speeds of up to 90km per hour.

New Railway 90kph? May be very rough country , mountainous ect , maybe also not practical for OCS

The second option is similar to the first except that some parts of the 206km route would be adjusted to have more curves in a bid to carry trains at speeds of up to 120kmh.

"More" curves do not increases the speed , I think they mean Bigger/longer curves which do indeed allow a faster speed (Alignment issue)

The third option is a 170km route so trains can travel at up to 160kmh.

Why does 170km route allow trains to travel at 160kph ? Im not disputing 160 isn't a decent speed but what has a 170 km length have to do with it

Edited May 2, 2015 by ExPratt

[NongKhaiKid]

None of this Makes sense

Three routes are under consideration. The first option is a 217km link outlined along with the existing route. Trains could run at speeds of up to 90km per hour.

New Railway 90kph? May be very rough country , mountainous ect , maybe also not practical for OCS

The second option is similar to the first except that some parts of the 206km route would be adjusted to have more curves in a bid to carry trains at speeds of up to 120kmh.

"More" curves do not increases the speed , I think they mean Bigger/longer curves which do indeed allow a faster speed (Alignment issue)

The third option is a 170km route so trains can travel at up to 160kmh.

Why does 170km route allow trains to travel at 160kph ? Im not disputing 160 isn't a decent speed but what has a 170 km length have to do with it

It's good and helpful that someone with knowledge of railway system weighs in.

For me as a layman i see this as headline grabbing BS, and don't forget they are still deep in it over air safety.

[BSJ]

So, going by this "Nawin Sintusa-ard, vice governor of Chiang Mai, said the rail link to Den Chai supports the province's urban plan that promotes the northern Lanna culture as the soul of the North's tourism and international trade. "

There is going to be a big increase in foreigners going to that area by train instead of by bus, car, or motorbike? International trade....so that means what? Containers going out of the country filled with rice? Any going to China would have to be put on to standard gauge flat cars at an intermodal facility.

I can't see any logic in this.

Maybe it will become clear to me when they settle on a route......but maybe not!

[ExPratt]

<script type='text/javascript'>window.mod_pagespeed_start = Number(new Date());</script>

None of this Makes sense

Three routes are under consideration. The first option is a 217km link outlined along with the existing route. Trains could run at speeds of up to 90km per hour.

New Railway 90kph? May be very rough country , mountainous ect , maybe also not practical for OCS

The second option is similar to the first except that some parts of the 206km route would be adjusted to have more curves in a bid to carry trains at speeds of up to 120kmh.

"More" curves do not increases the speed , I think they mean Bigger/longer curves which do indeed allow a faster speed (Alignment issue)

The third option is a 170km route so trains can travel at up to 160kmh.

Why does 170km route allow trains to travel at 160kph ? Im not disputing 160 isn't a decent speed but what has a 170 km length have to do with it

It's good and helpful that someone with knowledge of railway system weighs in.

For me as a layman i see this as headline grabbing BS, and don't forget they are still deep in it over air safety.

Its a bit like TAT , they tend to give out "Facts" with scant/dubious details in a rush to tell everyone the news.

Sounds like those Railways in the article are feasible and practical more so than Tourist resort High speed Railways and even the 720km Monster from Nong Kai to Bangkok.

I'm back to work soon so I'll have less time to be a pedantic prick on here

[NongKhaiKid]

<script type='text/javascript'>window.mod_pagespeed_start = Number(new Date());</script>

None of this Makes sense

Three routes are under consideration. The first option is a 217km link outlined along with the existing route. Trains could run at speeds of up to 90km per hour.

New Railway 90kph? May be very rough country , mountainous ect , maybe also not practical for OCS

The second option is similar to the first except that some parts of the 206km route would be adjusted to have more curves in a bid to carry trains at speeds of up to 120kmh.

"More" curves do not increases the speed , I think they mean Bigger/longer curves which do indeed allow a faster speed (Alignment issue)

The third option is a 170km route so trains can travel at up to 160kmh.

Why does 170km route allow trains to travel at 160kph ? Im not disputing 160 isn't a decent speed but what has a 170 km length have to do with it

It's good and helpful that someone with knowledge of railway system weighs in.

For me as a layman i see this as headline grabbing BS, and don't forget they are still deep in it over air safety.

Its a bit like TAT , they tend to give out "Facts" with scant/dubious details in a rush to tell everyone the news.

Sounds like those Railways in the article are feasible and practical more so than Tourist resort High speed Railways and even the 720km Monster from Nong Kai to Bangkok.

I'm back to work soon so I'll have less time to be a pedantic prick on here

Prick, hmm but pedantic never.

i for one will miss every insertion you make with the deep thrust of your argument and the grace with which you withdraw.

[ExPratt]

<script type='text/javascript'>window.mod_pagespeed_start = Number(new Date());</script>

So, going by this "Nawin Sintusa-ard, vice governor of Chiang Mai, said the rail link to Den Chai supports the province's urban plan that promotes the northern Lanna culture as the soul of the North's tourism and international trade. "

There is going to be a big increase in foreigners going to that area by train instead of by bus, car, or motorbike? International trade....so that means what? Containers going out of the country filled with rice? Any going to China would have to be put on to standard gauge flat cars at an intermodal facility.

I can't see any logic in this.

Maybe it will become clear to me when they settle on a route......but maybe not! alt=rolleyes.gif>

Yeah that would be pointless , but they talk about link to ASEAN I think ""I believe this route can be a choice for domestic transit and also a link with neighbouring countries in response to the Asean Economic Community's full implementation at the end of this year,"

Maybe they'll fire the freight into China on the Nong Kai line , I think thats the plan for that railway.

[ExPratt]

Prick, hmm but pedantic never.

i for one will miss every insertion you make with the deep thrust of your argument and the grace with which you withdraw.

Hahahahahahaha , I see you're still undecided on the Prick label. Nice response mate cheers ;0)

[NongKhaiKid]

Prick, hmm but pedantic never.

i for one will miss every insertion you make with the deep thrust of your argument and the grace with which you withdraw.

Hahahahahahaha , I see you're still undecided on the Prick label. Nice response mate cheers ;0)

My pleasure, nice doing business with you and please keep the advice on railways going.

[JAG]

I think that when you strip away the poor translations, what this is talking about is rebuilding the existing Northern line to Chiang Mai, doubling the track and realigning some curves to allow higher speeds and increase the capacity of the route.

Incidentally, whilst it is a joy to follow the developing relationship between ExPratt and NongKhaiKid, I trust we will be spared the details of any subsequent consummation?

[Ricardo]

Yet this section was one of the last planned-to-be-doubled, under the (currently underway) SRT track-doubling plans, so why study it now ?

Even Yingluck's plan for a high-speed passenger-only network had wisely left it until last, when she hoped some private-enterprise group might step forwards, to build the more-difficult section North from Phitsanulok through the hills & mountains !

Perhaps "About Bt117 million has been set aside for the study and design of the one-metre gauge railway" gives a clue ?

[ExPratt]

<script type='text/javascript'>window.mod_pagespeed_start = Number(new Date());</script>

I think that when you strip away the poor translations, what this is talking about is rebuilding the existing Northern line to Chiang Mai, doubling the track and realigning some curves to allow higher speeds and increase the capacity of the route.

Incidentally, whilst it is a joy to follow the developing relationship between ExPratt and NongKhaiKid, I trust we will be spared the details of any subsequent consummation?

I'm I stepping on your toes Jag,sounds like the old green eyed monster is out and about, ;o)

[NongKhaiKid]

I think that when you strip away the poor translations, what this is talking about is rebuilding the existing Northern line to Chiang Mai, doubling the track and realigning some curves to allow higher speeds and increase the capacity of the route.

Incidentally, whilst it is a joy to follow the developing relationship between ExPratt and NongKhaiKid, I trust we will be spared the details of any subsequent consummation?

We don't kiss, we don't tell and it could never happen. i believe the charming Ex P is English and I'm a card carrying Scottish Nationalist.

See U Jimmy !

[Gunna]

Yet this section was one of the last planned-to-be-doubled, under the (currently underway) SRT track-doubling plans, so why study it now ?

Even Yingluck's plan for a high-speed passenger-only network had wisely left it until last, when she hoped some private-enterprise group might step forwards, to build the more-difficult section North from Phitsanulok through the hills & mountains !

Perhaps "About Bt117 million has been set aside for the study and design of the one-metre gauge railway" gives a clue ?

The reason for the study is they have 3 choices for improving this section of the line between Bangkok and Chiang Mai

1) lay a second track beside the existing 1 meter track - cheapest but slowest

2) Spend more money and re-align some sections to make straighter and with broader curves - faster trains, shorter distance, but increase in cost

3) Spend a lot more money straightening the track - probably more tunnels and bigger cuttings to make as straight as feasible, hence shortest distance and fastest trains, and most expensive.

They may have also be looking at later on building a track from Den Chai to Chiang Rai

[ExPratt]

<script type='text/javascript'>window.mod_pagespeed_start = Number(new Date());</script>

Yet this section was one of the last planned-to-be-doubled, under the (currently underway) SRT track-doubling plans, so why study it now ?

Even Yingluck's plan for a high-speed passenger-only network had wisely left it until last, when she hoped some private-enterprise group might step forwards, to build the more-difficult section North from Phitsanulok through the hills & mountains !

Perhaps "About Bt117 million has been set aside for the study and design of the one-metre gauge railway" gives a clue ? alt=whistling.gif>

The reason for the study is they have 3 choices for improving this section of the line between Bangkok and Chiang Mai

1) lay a second track beside the existing 1 meter track - cheapest but slowest

2) Spend more money and re-align some sections to make straighter and with broader curves - faster trains, shorter distance, but increase in cost

3) Spend a lot more money straightening the track - probably more tunnels and bigger cuttings to make as straight as feasible, hence shortest distance and fastest trains, and most expensive.

They may have also be looking at later on building a track from Den Chai to Chiang Rai

So for the first option , hence the 90kph. They must renew at least the formation you would think and install new Track on existing line while building new adjacent track nearly all built in existing ROW,.

I have no idea how busy that line is but option 1 seems adequate for a "Local line". Problems with 2 and 3 obviously would be Land acquisition as the big unknown and time and expense. I suppose it all depends what the envisage for future usage.

Edited May 3, 2015 by ExPratt

[trainman34014]

Another 117 million Baht wasted as it will never be built. Fantasy railway lines are the 'in thing' at the moment and give cause for 'Quango's', 'Feasibility Groups', 'Committee's' and other 'Action Group's' to receive large lumps of money which then vanish

All these current 'Development Plans' will be shelved if...and i say if...a new democratic Government ever gets into power.

[JAG]

I think that when you strip away the poor translations, what this is talking about is rebuilding the existing Northern line to Chiang Mai, doubling the track and realigning some curves to allow higher speeds and increase the capacity of the route.

Incidentally, whilst it is a joy to follow the developing relationship between ExPratt and NongKhaiKid, I trust we will be spared the details of any subsequent consummation?

We don't kiss, we don't tell and it could never happen. i believe the charming Ex P is English and I'm a card carrying Scottish Nationalist.

See U Jimmy !

Ahh, a union by any other name?

[dageurreotype]

Meanwhile, in other old news, infrastructure every bloody where is in desperate need of maintenance/upgrading and the purportedly 'International World Tourist island ' of Phuket STILL has NO public transport. Lots of soldiers going around threatening the tourists they're constantly banging on about the need for, having their armed thugs (from an outsiders' perspective), ordering them to take up their folding canvass chairs and go' Pathetic.

Really looking forward to this year's 'High Season'

[dageurreotype]

I think that when you strip away the poor translations, what this is talking about is rebuilding the existing Northern line to Chiang Mai, doubling the track and realigning some curves to allow higher speeds and increase the capacity of the route.

Incidentally, whilst it is a joy to follow the developing relationship between ExPratt and NongKhaiKid, I trust we will be spared the details of any subsequent consummation?

We don't kiss, we don't tell and it could never happen. i believe the charming Ex P is English and I'm a card carrying Scottish Nationalist.

See U Jimmy !

Ahh, a union by any other name?

Which is wrong, how? Discuss.

[ourmanflint]

Another 117 million Baht wasted as it will never be built. Fantasy railway lines are the 'in thing' at the moment and give cause for 'Quango's', 'Feasibility Groups', 'Committee's' and other 'Action Group's' to receive large lumps of money which then vanish

All these current 'Development Plans' will be shelved if...and i say if...a new democratic Government ever gets into power.

I don't get it, how is improving rail links to what is arguably Thailand's second city a fantasy?

[rubl]

None of this Makes sense

Three routes are under consideration. The first option is a 217km link outlined along with the existing route. Trains could run at speeds of up to 90km per hour.

New Railway 90kph? May be very rough country , mountainous ect , maybe also not practical for OCS

The second option is similar to the first except that some parts of the 206km route would be adjusted to have more curves in a bid to carry trains at speeds of up to 120kmh.

"More" curves do not increases the speed , I think they mean Bigger/longer curves which do indeed allow a faster speed (Alignment issue)

The third option is a 170km route so trains can travel at up to 160kmh.

Why does 170km route allow trains to travel at 160kph ? Im not disputing 160 isn't a decent speed but what has a 170 km length have to do with it

Not enough info, but maybe the 170km route includes a few extra tunnels and a more 'isolated' trace to avoid crossings?

Mind you, with the reasoning for the links stressing "tourism" I would have thought 90 km/h would be fast enough. Scenic route, lots of curves, mountainside hugging and the like.

[ratcatcher]

If many readers are confused, I , for one, am not surprised. So many facts are being tossed around like a salad, nobody seems to really know what the actual end plan is..

HST, High Speed trains, Fast Trains, Standard Gauge, Metre gauge. Freight, passengers, all these ingredients are chucked in

Is any body clear?

DenChai has a railway station and a small railyard. Trains frequently originate here as well as at Sila at.

Den Chai may well be the junction for a northern branch line up to Phrae, Phayao and Chiang Rai.

The confusing thing is the two standards of track. The existing 1 metre gauge and the planned standard gauge (4' 8")
What the government needs to do is come to some agreement on the future gauge and usage. Running freight trains on the same track as High Speed passenger trains is not practical and AFAIK that is the case in Japan, France, Germany and a few other countries that operate HST.. .

Edited May 3, 2015 by ratcatcher

[chainarong]

<script type='text/javascript'>window.mod_pagespeed_start = Number(new Date());</script>

It's good and helpful that someone with knowledge of railway system weighs in.

None of this Makes sense

Three routes are under consideration. The first option is a 217km link outlined along with the existing route. Trains could run at speeds of up to 90km per hour.

New Railway 90kph? May be very rough country , mountainous ect , maybe also not practical for OCS

The second option is similar to the first except that some parts of the 206km route would be adjusted to have more curves in a bid to carry trains at speeds of up to 120kmh.

"More" curves do not increases the speed , I think they mean Bigger/longer curves which do indeed allow a faster speed (Alignment issue)

The third option is a 170km route so trains can travel at up to 160kmh.

Why does 170km route allow trains to travel at 160kph ? Im not disputing 160 isn't a decent speed but what has a 170 km length have to do with it

For me as a layman i see this as headline grabbing BS, and don't forget they are still deep in it over air safety.

The stupid part is double track to Den Chai , what happens then single down to BKK, you not only have curves you also have grade , the stepper the grade and tighter curves the lower speed and would it be standard gage , you can get the tilt rail car type like they use in the UK that allows higher speed on narrow gage passenger, but why all this , isn't japan supposed to put in a dual standard gage to Chiang Mai, sometime this century.

[rubl]

For me as a layman i see this as headline grabbing BS, and don't forget they are still deep in it over air safety.

The stupid part is double track to Den Chai , what happens then single down to BKK, you not only have curves you also have grade , the stepper the grade and tighter curves the lower speed and would it be standard gage , you can get the tilt rail car type like they use in the UK that allows higher speed on narrow gage passenger, but why all this , isn't japan supposed to put in a dual standard gage to Chiang Mai, sometime this century.

There may be MoU's and begin of April we had

""Japan wants to invest in the Bangkok-Phitsanulok-Chiang Mai high-speed project because the project feasibility study was very favourable. However, construction of this kind of project will be expensive because of the technology involved," ACM Prajin said."

That link was said to be Standard Gauge. Further details were to be discussed last week. I may have missed reporting on that.

[ExPratt]

Maybe 1 m gauge for the Local train from Den Chai and the hop on the Standard gauge to BKK at chang Mai

Its all conjecture though isn't it. Whether they go into partnership with 3 different countries or not it is a huge program they are talking about and I don't think they have anything , other than a couple of MOUs,in black and white

Edited May 3, 2015 by ExPratt

[trainman34014]

Another 117 million Baht wasted as it will never be built. Fantasy railway lines are the 'in thing' at the moment and give cause for 'Quango's', 'Feasibility Groups', 'Committee's' and other 'Action Group's' to receive large lumps of money which then vanish

All these current 'Development Plans' will be shelved if...and i say if...a new democratic Government ever gets into power.

I don't get it, how is improving rail links to what is arguably Thailand's second city a fantasy?

You've never heard of a phantom pregnancy then ?

[Ricardo]

<script type='text/javascript'>window.mod_pagespeed_start = Number(new Date());</script>

It's good and helpful that someone with knowledge of railway system weighs in.

None of this Makes sense

Three routes are under consideration. The first option is a 217km link outlined along with the existing route. Trains could run at speeds of up to 90km per hour.

New Railway 90kph? May be very rough country , mountainous ect , maybe also not practical for OCS

The second option is similar to the first except that some parts of the 206km route would be adjusted to have more curves in a bid to carry trains at speeds of up to 120kmh.

"More" curves do not increases the speed , I think they mean Bigger/longer curves which do indeed allow a faster speed (Alignment issue)

The third option is a 170km route so trains can travel at up to 160kmh.

Why does 170km route allow trains to travel at 160kph ? Im not disputing 160 isn't a decent speed but what has a 170 km length have to do with it

For me as a layman i see this as headline grabbing BS, and don't forget they are still deep in it over air safety.

The stupid part is double track to Den Chai , what happens then single down to BKK, you not only have curves you also have grade , the stepper the grade and tighter curves the lower speed and would it be standard gage , you can get the tilt rail car type like they use in the UK that allows higher speed on narrow gage passenger, but why all this , isn't japan supposed to put in a dual standard gage to Chiang Mai, sometime this century.

"May be very rough country , mountainous ect"

Indeed, this line (North from Den Chai) runs through some very beautiful, but mountainous, countryside and includes the old tunnel North of Lampang with 1-in-60 gradients up to it, which currently require a second-engine, even for the reduced-length trains which run over it. And there are only six of those per-day, in each direction.

The whole of this line was anyway relaid only a year-or-so ago, following a series of derailments, this did about 300 km of it IIRC.

"The stupid part is double track to Den Chai , what happens then single down to BKK"

Yes, if you were going to double this track, then why stop at Den Chai where it's still then single-track for the next section running further South ? Instant bottle-neck !

As I had pointed out in an earlier post, there are already plans to eventually double this meter-gauge line, as part of a major on-going SRT long-term track-doubling scheme, but this section's at least a decade away, if it ever happens. So studying it now is out-of-sequence. Why have they done this now ?

And if the second Chinese high-speed standard-gauge freight line ever gets built, the one running up to Chang Khong and on to Laos & China, then a shorter faster link from Chiang Mai might then run to meet the new line anyway, using modern construction/tunneling techniques and not needing to follow the route of this picturesque single-track former logging-line !.

Meanwhile B117-million is spent on a study which, in all probability, will never get built. It's like the meter-gauge proposed-line from Den Chai through Phayao to Chiang Rai, which has been promised every election-time for 50+ years, it is likely to be overtaken by other routes, if it ever gets built at all.