Can a school force me to pay compensation on leaving a teaching job?

[thailand49]

Here is my final take, The BM, from his posting has done the Internet research and found out that there is a high turnover. He is got to know the reason as far as I'm concern but left it out in his post so basically we are dissecting the school as being the problem.

Yet with all the turnovers, he applies, interviews and get a offer but now seeing the contract and the find print does not like the terms if he ends up not liking the job or gets a better one while he is teaching at his only choice. How does it affect the students? simple! he walks out who continue the teaching? they do not have subs like in the West sitting around on call.

To me, this is a person who takes a job they really do not want but need it to pay the bills in the meantime while they look for something else. Accepts the job and then complains they are not getting paid enough like their senior counterparts.

I say in the real world this is what employers do to protect themselves whether they run it well or not to make money or not! It is their business, right? if you don't like it don't take the job and if you need to pay your bills until you find something better sign it and suck it up? that is what people do?

I've had jobs that I didn't like but needed to do what I needed to do to put food on the table pay the rent. I didn't like I was being paid lower than others based on seniority etc. but the choice was mines, I came to work everyday did the same work as others being paid more, I didn't call in sick make excuses, make myself part of the problem, When a better opportunity came I apply and gave what was expected of me 2 weeks, month or months notice and I was on my way! I had no problem the job being part of my resume no gaps! I would have serious problem hiring anyone having gaps and just taking off on a employer but that is just me.

Edited May 10, 2015 by thailand49

[mike324]

Based on what I observe, the high turnover are either due administration management issues, or crappy teachers who do no wish to take responsibility. Small International Schools are usually run the Thai way, which is more rigid and less western way of doing things, like many have said, there will be cultural clashes if you teach in places like this. Most teachers quite because of this reason, they can't stand the Thai way of doing things, being told how to teach, or the criticism administration dish out to teachers.

If you are already thinking about ways to break the contract if something goes wrong, shame on you for even thinking like that. The clause is quite reasonable. Penalties are in place so teachers will actually enforce and respect the contract, or else many will just leave in the middle which is unfair for the school and students. Penalties allows the students to finish their semester smoothly without disruptions. 2 month notice is not too long if you think about the time it takes for the school to hire a teacher and get all the work permit sorted out.

The other reason I think a school like this would have high turnover is due to hiring low quality teachers due to the schools low budget.

Your post is truly amazing and beyond any logical thinking sequences. I assume that certain “administration management issues” are causing the employment of crappy teachers. Why using “shame on you” when you don’t know much about the real situation? Why so offensive?

The clause is reasonable? C’mon, please give me a break, it isn't reasonable, it’s ulcerated. Are we really talking about the same country now? You should replace penalties with contract obligations that are fair for both. For the employer, but also for the employee.

How can penalties help students to finish their semester smoothly, if the working environment is poisoned by the employer? False promises combined with “true” lies. I've got three months in my contract, but I’m also aware that my school could and would easily find ways to bypass anything and make things up.

A fair school will find a teacher in a very short period of time, also called the reputation of the school. Please see the reality and consider how many schools don’t even want to provide all the docs for a work permit.

Your last sentence should enable you to receive the Pulitzer, or at least the Wurlitzer Prize for human curiosity. “Low quality teachers”, due the school’s low budget? Sounds like a construction worker who puts bicycle rims and some shimmering lights on his motorbike to make it faster.

The budget is too low, because all the cash goes into the wrong pockets. But even when it turns out to be the case, then they top it by telling people that they can’t pay a higher salary, because so many parents didn't pay the school fee. A very common and cheap excuse at Thai schools.

While the government money for new computers, desks, chairs and other needed utensils easily disappears in peoples’ wallets. Even private schools receive huge sums from the Thai tax payers, but where does the money actually go to?

Life's really too short to waste time, enjoy it. -

I use the "shame on you" because teachers should not think about jumping ship in the middle of the semester not matter how bad the management is. They should just stick it out. My post wasn't trying to slam the OP, being too sensitive here?

Whats so unclear about the clause? Can't follow a simple contract? If you don't like it, renegotiate or don't work there.

Penalties will make teachers less likely to quit. Small Thai international schools are ill prepared if a home room teacher quits, bringing in a substitute teacher to fill in is unfair for students. A fair teacher will not just quit and be so irresponsible, it goes both ways.

Low budget generally means hiring teachers with not much experience in Thailand.

Again you want to paint Thai international schools with the the rich school evil director brush. Can't really argue with your narrow view, yes there are greedy school owners, but there are good ones as well. After all its a business and they invest money in it, so why so negative if they make money as long as staffs are paid a decent wage.

I know all schools receive subsidies from the government, but again no need to paint them all with the same brush.

Life is too short to be bitter and negative.

[Scott]

Of course a teacher should not jump ship, but I will give you an example of a couple of teachers who have been put in a most untenable situation. They have been given a teaching assignment which they cannot adequately do. Two have been assigned to teach science to upper grades, but neither of them has any background whatsoever in science.

Both are excellent teachers in their area of expertise and can teach a wide variety of subjects, but as they have said, physics and chemistry is not something that they can do. The school has so far refused to change the schedule.

Should they stay and try and teach this, knowing that the students will not learn and there is a good chance that they will end up being terminated, or should they jump ship? Both have worked at the school for 3 years and this sudden change was completely unexpected.

Both have been offered other jobs in their respective areas of expertise, by the way.

[lostinisaan]

Of course a teacher should not jump ship, but I will give you an example of a couple of teachers who have been put in a most untenable situation. They have been given a teaching assignment which they cannot adequately do. Two have been assigned to teach science to upper grades, but neither of them has any background whatsoever in science.

Both are excellent teachers in their area of expertise and can teach a wide variety of subjects, but as they have said, physics and chemistry is not something that they can do. The school has so far refused to change the schedule.

Should they stay and try and teach this, knowing that the students will not learn and there is a good chance that they will end up being terminated, or should they jump ship? Both have worked at the school for 3 years and this sudden change was completely unexpected.

Both have been offered other jobs in their respective areas of expertise, by the way.

I've just read an e-mail of a forum member who's working for an agency. The Cameroonian with a < 600 TOEIC score will teach "conversational English" , while the experienced guy with a very good and clear pronunciation has to teach grammar to high school students.

.

[lovelomsak]

I just checked with the wife and this is what she told me.At my wife's school she is Thai at time of signing contract she gives them 15,000 baht. If contract is one year and she completes it she can leave and get the 15,000 back or sign new contract and school keeps the money same as first contract.. If she quits at anytime before the contract ends she forfeits the 15,000. A few years ago she was making 7,900 a month and they were demanding 50,000 baht things have improved.

Edited May 13, 2015 by lovelomsak

[smiles793]

Don’t take it personally as a Thai-v-Farang thing.

These types of penalty clauses are not uncommon for Thai professionals in the private sector (for example some hospitals and schools), and are accepted by the Labour Office – actually the Labour Office provides guidelines for their use. The method for extracting the financial penalty seems to vary – I know of Thai professionals who have made deposits and others who have nominated guarantors; I’m sure there must be other variations too. But I'm not sure how this might work for foreigners.

Employers are also obliged to notify the Labour Office when an employee leaves, so if you start and break a contract this will be recorded (or should be) at the Labour Office, and I guess for a foreigner this could become a major obstacle to future employment.

[Kf6vci]

Think about it. They have failed to keep teachers working there. Why is that? It takes two to tango...

That 80,000 Baht clause won't hold up in court.

Forget it - these people won't like it when you re-write their hostile contract.

[zoroastra999]

Many thanks for the helpful responses. In the end I rewrote the contract using standard wording from a (reasonable and intelligible) contract I had signed in the past. I politely sent this to them 'for review and comment'.

The result was a rude and officious sounding message saying that they did not accept the contract and that they would 'not be needing my services'.

Conclusion: They've been short of a suitable teacher for months and the kids are bored out of their minds, I was introduced as 'the new teacher' - to everyone's delight - and now the Head has to back-pedal because the administration is too proud to even negotiate.

By the way, at this 'school' there was no library - indeed no books of any kind (apart from the academic set texts). Teachers needed to do thirty hours back-to-back lessons. There were no computers. I saw six kids watching a YouTube video by at the teacher's phone!

Call it a 'school', and some parents will be dumb enough to cough-up the fees

[zeichen]

That doesn't sound like an international school. Sounds like a zoo. You are very lucky not to work there. 30 hours of classroom time is insane that would have kept me from signing the contract not the penalty.

Good luck on the job search, it takes time but eventually we all find a good fit.

[aarontendo]

Agreed, 30 hours is an insane amount of work. Heck hakwons in Korea work you that, and they fully prepare lessons (or so I'm told).

Schools that have those kinds of clauses are disasters to work for. Some like to hold back your paperwork such as diplomas.

[onlycw]

Well, you better check them out. If the salary is okay, you will have to find out why there's such a high churn.

crazy workload? Terrible boss? Go meet the colleagues and see if you can contact one of those who left?

...

That "80,000 Baht fine" won't hold up in court. Then there is the probationary period. Which goes both ways: they can fire you at will - and you may quit at will.

My own contract has a weird clause regarding forfitting salary in a certain event. But then, paper is patient and anyone can write anything into a contract. But when the terms are unlawful, it's tough sh*t.

...

I don't like the intent behind such clauses. Seems they have a devious mind and expect to collect. Which would indiocate an expectation of you becoming so desperate as to wanting to get the h*ll outta there!!

[Loaded]

There's often high turnover at schools in small boring towns. It seemed like a good idea at the time but a few weeks of provincial town life often leads to the bus station or drinking chang outside 7/11 every evening. It's not necessarily the fault of the school.

[Slip]

Of course a teacher should not jump ship, but I will give you an example of a couple of teachers who have been put in a most untenable situation. They have been given a teaching assignment which they cannot adequately do. Two have been assigned to teach science to upper grades, but neither of them has any background whatsoever in science.

Both are excellent teachers in their area of expertise and can teach a wide variety of subjects, but as they have said, physics and chemistry is not something that they can do. The school has so far refused to change the schedule.

Should they stay and try and teach this, knowing that the students will not learn and there is a good chance that they will end up being terminated, or should they jump ship? Both have worked at the school for 3 years and this sudden change was completely unexpected.

Both have been offered other jobs in their respective areas of expertise, by the way.

Many years ago my place recruited a foreign PE teacher, (who was a truly excellent teacher as it turned out), sadly they forgot to tell him that the entire first semester was teaching swimming, or to ask him if he could swim. He couldn't.