The University Ranking System Will Be Adjusted To Increase Its Credibility

[Jai Dee]

The Education Ministry is finding ways to make the university ranking more credible

The university ranking system will be adjusted to increase its credibility.

Caretaker Education Minister Chaturon Chaisaeng (จาตุรนต์ ฉายแสง) said he has appointed a panel charged with gathering opinions of academics and experts of various universities on how to make the ranking credible.

Mr. Chaturon said there also will be discussions on which agency should be responsible for putting universities into the ranking and whether a new agency should be set up to do that task.

The recent ranking revealed by the Office of the Higher Education Commission was criticized for its credibility and effects on graduates from universities at the bottom of the list.

Source: Thai National News Bureau Public Relations Department - 08 September 2006

[kmart]

What credibility? When the cheating is taken seriously; and rich kids don't get instantly "fast-tracked" to their undeserved degrees; some "credibility" may be in order.

[Ijustwannateach]

This is more of the grade/status hyperinflation effect. No university can be allowed to be considered "bad" publicly. All must have prizes. All must be the bestestestestestest schools of all, and only a few will be besterester than others.

That *3* schools apparently topped the list surprised me; saying those three were equal was also a bit of a joke.

I wouldn't be surprised if the size of the contribution of the school to the researching committee's "special fund" wound up having something to do with the ranking, too.

"Steven"

[Scott]

A ranking of this sort needs to be done by an independent body that is actually capable and does this sort of thing. Not by a group of local yahoos who couldn't even design an entrance test that was valid or fair!

Sorry for ranting, but the current system is just toooo out of order to be effective.

[Losangels]

A ranking of this sort needs to be done by an independent body that is actually capable and does this sort of thing. Not by a group of local yahoos who couldn't even design an entrance test that was valid or fair!

Sorry for ranting, but the current system is just toooo out of order to be effective.

Awwwww you've hurt their feelings. Never mind the local yahoo will come up with a new and improved university rating system with the guidance from the ministry of memorization and rote education.

[gisele]

A ranking of this sort needs to be done by an independent body that is actually capable and does this sort of thing. Not by a group of local yahoos who couldn't even design an entrance test that was valid or fair!

Sorry for ranting, but the current system is just toooo out of order to be effective.

I am sure the local yahoos will be efficient and accountable as all institutions are in Thailand and design a valid protocol.

[Losangels]

A ranking of this sort needs to be done by an independent body that is actually capable and does this sort of thing. Not by a group of local yahoos who couldn't even design an entrance test that was valid or fair!

Sorry for ranting, but the current system is just toooo out of order to be effective.

I am sure the local yahoos will be efficient and accountable as all institutions are in Thailand and design a valid protocol.

[kat]

Sad really. Even their reforms or "solutions" are a joke. It's like putting a band-aid on a gaping, gushing wound. As Kmart said previously, you can have all the ranking you want, but until they have a full-on cultural reformation, this ranking is just going to be an extension of ranking in larger society between big people and little people. If one person cheats and gets away with it, then everyone cheats. It is simply a reflection of "laws" in this country.

I simply don't know what to say anymore, and even when you do, they look at you like you are the crazy one. I have to leave this place, because that's what people who care do after awhile. You can't stay here and care too much. It's like banging your head against a wall, and you are either a joke or a nusiance to them.

[gisele]

Sad really. Even their reforms or "solutions" are a joke. It's like putting a band-aid on a gaping, gushing wound. As Kmart said previously, you can have all the ranking you want, but until they have a full-on cultural reformation, this ranking is just going to be an extension of ranking in larger society between big people and little people. If one person cheats and gets away with it, then everyone cheats. It is simply a reflection of "laws" in this country.

I simply don't know what to say anymore, and even when you do, they look at you like you are the crazy one. I have to leave this place, because that's what people who care do after awhile. You can't stay here and care too much. It's like banging your head against a wall, and you are either a joke or a nusiance to them.

I feel exactly the same, and I have thought of getting away except that my life (my family, my husband) is here so I don't want to leave.

I am starting to feel bitter at work, the total lack of accountability is just driving me crazy. Try as I might to make things better, it seems futile or at the very least extremely frustrating. Staff who compound mistakes upon mistakes, then have no desire to remediate their errors.

The dept head has told me I shouldn't expect perfection

heck, I would be happy with mediocrity

it is incredible that the concept of efficiency is so foreign however there is a certain expertise at assigning blame. Anything to avoid being accountable for one's actions.

Edited September 8, 2006 by gisele

[Losangels]

Sad really. Even their reforms or "solutions" are a joke. It's like putting a band-aid on a gaping, gushing wound. As Kmart said previously, you can have all the ranking you want, but until they have a full-on cultural reformation, this ranking is just going to be an extension of ranking in larger society between big people and little people. If one person cheats and gets away with it, then everyone cheats. It is simply a reflection of "laws" in this country.

I simply don't know what to say anymore, and even when you do, they look at you like you are the crazy one. I have to leave this place, because that's what people who care do after awhile. You can't stay here and care too much. It's like banging your head against a wall, and you are either a joke or a nusiance to them.

Yes very sad indeed. We have to overhaul the whole system and "laws" in this country. What we lack now are leaders in charge that are truly committed to see a better system. Of course we need an educated population that are selfless and want to contribute for a better society.

I understand your frustation and dissapointment of the ways things are Kat, however please don't leave because we need more people like you who can contribute and help work things out.

If things remain the way they are we will be in the same boat as Burma

[Chang_paarp]

Every University will have their ranking put through the same algorithm that is used for grading the students.

"Look! All 5* universities!!!"

The world hub of education.

[kat]

I appreciate your comments gisele and Losangels. I just wrote this long response to both of you, and erased it. I truly don't know what to say anymore. I've tried to give my best here, but it was rejected, and now I don't even like what I've become anymore. I don't like being jaded and cynical all the time, but I also don't want to become someone who represses my thoughts because thinking or asking questions is negative. No one appreciates your best here, except for maybe a few students here and there. I feel bad for them.

I've tried everything, but they don't want people like me here. That is my true conclusion. I do plan to try and start an organization of some sort for the truly destitute and stateless, though.

Anyway, thank you both for your comments.

[kat]

Also, I think chang_paarp hit the nail right on the head. How are they going to rank universities when they can't even rank students fairly

I've heard some stories about foreigners in Thai universities that have suffered from grade deflation, and who also have been overlooked for top honors in favor of Thai students of lower rank.

Has anyone out there heard or experienced anything similar?

[gisele]

The things I have seen here!

Sometimes I think I should resign myself to the fact that they may profess wanting change and improvement but in practice, the processes are set in stone.

I should make it easier on myself and turn off my brain, close my eyes and chant "it doesn't matter, it doesn't matter".

[gisele]

Once, an "A" student came to me to negotiate his mark. His request? he wanted to share his mark with his "D" student girlfriend so they would both get a C, otherwise she would not graduate.

This made me question a system where a student would actually feel it was reasonable to ask for something like this. How can anyone come up with an idea like this?

I am becoming jaded.

Worst, I fear that bitterness is knocking at my door.

[kat]

That story just has me laughing and shaking my head gisele. I'm so glad I'm literally turning in my grades and flying out of here. If you are in BKK before early October give me a call, I'l love to meet you.

[terry57]

Sad really. Even their reforms or "solutions" are a joke. It's like putting a band-aid on a gaping, gushing wound. As Kmart said previously, you can have all the ranking you want, but until they have a full-on cultural reformation, this ranking is just going to be an extension of ranking in larger society between big people and little people. If one person cheats and gets away with it, then everyone cheats. It is simply a reflection of "laws" in this country.

I simply don't know what to say anymore, and even when you do, they look at you like you are the crazy one. I have to leave this place, because that's what people who care do after awhile. You can't stay here and care too much. It's like banging your head against a wall, and you are either a joke or a nusiance to them.

where you going kat ?

not leaving frigging los are you ?

[kat]

Yes, I'm leaving Going back to New York - woo hoo!

[terry57]

Yes, I'm leaving Going back to New York - woo hoo!

extremely bad news for your fans kat.

bye bye and come back soon.

just remember one thing when you get to new york.

" KEEP LOOKING UP "

cheers

[kat]

Thanks Terry. You're a top Aussie guy

[popshirt]

This thread has saddened me. Sorry so many dedicated farang teachers feel this way.

I don't want to become cynical and jaded either, those are terrible personality traits! I am at least grateful I neither have to work nor invest money in Thailand, one of the reasons I waited until retirement to move here full time. Those are two very slippery slopes in my opinion. Life is too short!

[sonnyJ]

Well they have a new plan, or is it a plan, where are the details?

Won't be waiting for anything changing. Sounds more like an advertisement scheme. OK, there are these few "best" gov. Unis which might even like to compete with each other for respect. All the rest private unis are the concearn I think. They are simply just busines, enterprises. Thats it.

Hope I'm wrong and this will improve the standards of education.

I'm a student at a higly ranked private university in Bangkok and I have grown very cynical and jaded as well. Word of the institution seems to be MONEY. I have figured it out this way that in this society it's simply important to create good connections with other people. That is what private universities provide. Most students don't go there to learn or for any academic purpose.

[lingyai]

I have often wondered if the parents of the students know what is going on in the universities in terms of cheating. At one private university the prof would leave the room for 20 minutes during the mid term and of course then people start sharing answers. At the same place I know an instructor who is a westerner and has had kids turn in papers that are 100% copied from the net. These kids are to dumb or lazy to bother to even try make the paper look as though it has only been partly copied (and I kid you not the paper had “Do not copy” on the top of it, they didn’t even bother to erase that!!). The administrators at the school will not let the instructor fail them, the lowest the instructor can give is a D.

I think the administrators are worried that parents would pull their kids from the school if they were flunked for cheating, thus threatening their revenue stream. Does anybody have any thoughts on if most parents would actually be mad at their children’s school for punishing them for cheating as opposed to their children themselves? I have always wondered about this.

[kat]

I've worked in every facet of the educational system here, from government primary schools, to elite private schools, and now respected, mid-top level university.

Students do not fail. On some occasions, the administration has even changed grades that were given out by the teacher (that we know about). I know teachers who have been challenged and threatened by hi-so parents at the elite school. The student was then required to turn in work and attend tutoring (on the teacher's time) until they could pass the class. In one case, this took more than a year. The lesser schools simply change the grade behind your back.