Government concerned with foreigners being ripped off by Thai hospitals

[HooHaa]

Everyone else in Thailand is ripping of foreigners!!

So why not the hospitals??

As we all are aware "health-care" in Thailand is all about money!!

Just read BP today, cover story about the local Florence Nightingales ripping of their own senior citizens!!

No limits to the greed!!

oddly, i dont feel ripped off in the least, who is this "everyone else in thailand" you speak of?

[fotog]

I have gone to Bumrungrad for four times this year and found that everything cost me 20% more than last year. That's a big increase. Has anyone else noticed this? Maybe I should ask them for a discount. I have no idea what they are charging other patients or if their charges are standardized for everyone.

Here's the deal on the pricing: When folks keep telling all and sundry how cheap everything is here, whether it be bar girls or medical services; even the dumbest person will eventually raise their price. If you keep telling the noodle vendor on the soi; "Gee these are great noodles, I can't believe how cheap they are!" Then don't act surprised when after hearing it often enough; he raises the price.

[mathias67]

Everyone else in Thailand is ripping of foreigners!!

So why not the hospitals??

As we all are aware "health-care" in Thailand is all about money!!

Just read BP today, cover story about the local Florence Nightingales ripping of their own senior citizens!!

No limits to the greed!!

Seven years ago I got a hernia but unfortunately my health insurance had not kicked in. I went to Pattaya Memorial Hospital and yes they could take me in the next day for the Op at a cost of Bt50,000. A friend suggested I went to Sattahip hospital and again yes they could do the Op but for a mini Bt 7,800. Guess where I had the operation???????

[masuk]

It's not only hospitals who are doing very well with their charges.

I need four common prescription medicines to keep my old bones moving, and it's not too cheap.

While I was back in Australia last month, I checked with our local pharmacy, and here's a brief summary of the prices in Chiang Mai and in Australia. Prices are NOT NHS, but regular over-the-counter costs.

Drug 3 CM pharmacies RAM hospital Australia

Glucophage / 10 tablets 30 baht 60 baht 11.2 baht

Atorvastatin " 400 baht 700baht 82 baht

Loranta " 60 baht 89 baht 100 baht

Carvediol " 90 n/a 44 baht

[nithisa78]

Everyone else in Thailand is ripping of foreigners!!

So why not the hospitals??

As we all are aware "health-care" in Thailand is all about money!!

Just read BP today, cover story about the local Florence Nightingales ripping of their own senior citizens!!

No limits to the greed!!

You can't cheat an honest man. So, get used to it.

[realenglish1]

This double tear standard is endemic in Thai Society and not at all fair Its a rip off. Example is the fees you have to pay when entering a park. Higher for Tourists lower for Thais.

This whole system of "let the foreigners pay more than Thais should be an embarrassment to Thais . This is the only country in the world that charges more for foreigners than residence or citizens .

Mark my words and you are welcome to come back on them any time. This sort of thinking and policy will jump back and bite the Thais in the butt sometime in the future and will create a bad situation in the future if not stopped

This show that the Thais only want your money and nothing else

So sad to think this way

[joshstiles]

and yet another load of crap from Mr. P

clinic cold treatment = 200 b

local govt hosp = 1000 b

private hosp= 3000 b

clinic treatment worked the best

tried all three

[smotherb]

I have been very pleased with the medical care I have received in Thailand. However, I do not live in a tourist trap--I believe that may be part of the difference. My wife collapsed, I took her to a good local hopsital, they put her in a private room performed several tests and gave her medication to reduce her very high blood pressure. Two days later with blood pressure back to normal, she was released. The bill was about $300 and that included two months of blood pressure medicine--my mother's BP medicine cost about $40/mo in the States and that was with full insurance coverage.

I had five broken ribs and a collapsed lung which was complicated by my own ignorance. I fell, hurt my ribs and went to a clinic in a resort town; they diagnosed bruised ribs and prescribed pain killers, muscle relaxers and anti-inflamatories. After three weeks, it was worse, I could not breathe. I went to my local hospital in Hatyai and was in surgery within two hours; they drained five litres of fluid from my lung cavity, but found I had several blood clots. The next day, after several more tests and specialists, I was back in the OR to remove the clots by major thoracic surgery. The docotrs said it would take three weeks for me to recover enough to be released. I had a private room which had a separate bedroom, two bathrooms, a full kitchen, two large screen TVs and enough comfortable furniture to seat a houseful of relatives. They gave me several medical tests-- MRIs, CTs, PFTs, ABGs, plethysmography, spirometry, x-rays, and numerous smaller blood and lung tests--I had 24/7 nurses, a plethora of medication, and four specialist doctors plus my GP. I recovered nicely with a delicate 11 inch rib cage scar from the thoracic surgery and a B10 coin-sized circular scar from the surgery to drain the fluids from my lung cavity. I was released from the hospital, at my insistance, in nine days. The thoracic surgeon was excellent, beyond criticism, he saw me twice before he took out the stiches, and then saw me every other month for the following year, all at no extra charge. The total bill was B240k, about $8k. I consider that a trivial cost for such great treatment, expensive tests, and complicated procedures-- the room would have cost more than that in the States. I have regained 100% lung capacity, all discomfort was gone in a year, the 11 inch scar looks as if it could have been done by a competent plastic surgeon--by comparison the circular scar, done by another surgeon, looks like it was performed in the hood with a can opener. I was 68 at the time. I rode my motorcycle the day after I got out of hospital. I feel great now and have no qualms about Thai medical care.

[SiSePuede419]

and yet another load of crap from Mr. P

clinic cold treatment = 200 b

local govt hosp = 1000 b

private hosp= 3000 b

clinic treatment worked the best

tried all three

Hate to break the news to you Josh, but all three ripped you off if this was a treatment for a cold virus.

There is no legitimate treatments for cold viruses, unless your treatment included a ride in a time machine to the future, Bro...

http://www.medicaldaily.com/why-there-no-cure-common-cold-3-d-virus-model-reveals-why-infection-evades-current-drugs-261349

[Tomtomtom69]

yet its ok to charge up to 10 times more for entering National parks, I would ahve thought more people want to travel places in Thailand, than those using the hospitals.

It is neither acceptable to charge more for entering national parks or hospitals. But clearly it is more important that hospitals charge fair and transparent fees because while national parks can be safely avoided throughout one's stay in Thailand (no one can force you to go to a national park and they aren't all that great anyway) hospitals on the other hand are a necessary part of society. Accidents and sudden illnesses can strike at anytime and while it is prudent to be covered by some sort of insurance at all times, whether you are a local or foreigner, one can not adopt the attitude, "well, I'm healthy, nothing will ever happen to me" because it's exactly those kind of people who get in trouble when the s*** hits the fan.

And I am quite sure hospitals are not only a far more important part of Thai society than national parks, but more foreigners surely have to use the Thai medical system than go to national parks. No idea how you reached that far reaching conclusion.

[enufsaid]

Trogers & Co, I don't use my travel insurance just to see a Dr, but still I'm charged Australian prices

[enufsaid]

Trogers & Co, I don't use my travel insurance just to see a Dr, but still I'm charged Australian prices

[cumgranosalum]

I have been very pleased with the medical care I have received in Thailand. However, I do not live in a tourist trap--I believe that may be part of the difference. My wife collapsed, I took her to a good local hopsital, they put her in a private room performed several tests and gave her medication to reduce her very high blood pressure. Two days later with blood pressure back to normal, she was released. The bill was about $300 and that included two months of blood pressure medicine--my mother's BP medicine cost about $40/mo in the States and that was with full insurance coverage.

I had five broken ribs and a collapsed lung which was complicated by my own ignorance. I fell, hurt my ribs and went to a clinic in a resort town; they diagnosed bruised ribs and prescribed pain killers, muscle relaxers and anti-inflamatories. After three weeks, it was worse, I could not breathe. I went to my local hospital in Hatyai and was in surgery within two hours; they drained five litres of fluid from my lung cavity, but found I had several blood clots. The next day, after several more tests and specialists, I was back in the OR to remove the clots by major thoracic surgery. The docotrs said it would take three weeks for me to recover enough to be released. I had a private room which had a separate bedroom, two bathrooms, a full kitchen, two large screen TVs and enough comfortable furniture to seat a houseful of relatives. They gave me several medical tests-- MRIs, CTs, PFTs, ABGs, plethysmography, spirometry, x-rays, and numerous smaller blood and lung tests--I had 24/7 nurses, a plethora of medication, and four specialist doctors plus my GP. I recovered nicely with a delicate 11 inch rib cage scar from the thoracic surgery and a B10 coin-sized circular scar from the surgery to drain the fluids from my lung cavity. I was released from the hospital, at my insistance, in nine days. The thoracic surgeon was excellent, beyond criticism, he saw me twice before he took out the stiches, and then saw me every other month for the following year, all at no extra charge. The total bill was B240k, about $8k. I consider that a trivial cost for such great treatment, expensive tests, and complicated procedures-- the room would have cost more than that in the States. I have regained 100% lung capacity, all discomfort was gone in a year, the 11 inch scar looks as if it could have been done by a competent plastic surgeon--by comparison the circular scar, done by another surgeon, looks like it was performed in the hood with a can opener. I was 68 at the time. I rode my motorcycle the day after I got out of hospital. I feel great now and have no qualms about Thai medical care.

You feel satisfied with your procedures - which is what most patients feel when they don't die - it's a recognised syndrome a bit similar to "Stockholm" - all you have described is a procedure that would happen anywhere in the world and how YOU feel about it. - it is purely the perception of a single lay-person - and as your yardstick appears to be one of the worst healthcare systems in the western world one has to take that with a pinch of salt.

there is no analysis of the efficacy of the procedures used or how efficiently they were carried out or any comparison with treatment in other countries - this is of course nigh-on impossible in individual cases and one must have bilk stats to draw any concrete conclusions - in other words ANECDOTE!

[gandalf12]

It isnt always the hospitals that are ripping you off. A fw years ago in the UK a doctor gave a prescription for some medicine to a patient. The paient went to the nearest pharmacist and handed the prescription over. The pharmicist looked at it and told the customer "If i give you what is on here it will cost you £45. If you look over on thee second row of shelves you can get the same and I will charge £2.75, it is upto you". The customer obviously went and picked the items off the shelf and paid the couple of pounds. Because the pharmicist had not charged the customer the prive for the prescription he was taken to court and heavily fined.

Moral is, sometimes it is others imposing a price not always the hospital or doctor

[Si Thea01]

Prices for medication are also highly inflated whe issued by the major hospital pharmacies, and they are often unnecessarily prescribed. Suggest you always ask if the medication is available at outside pharmacies, some are not, buy outside whenever you can.

Very true. I used to buy my blood pressure medication at a private hospital, cost B2500.00 each month. Have found a good drugstore in Udon Thani, who charges B1,400.00 for the identical product. As I live 150 k's from there, and if I cannot get to town, then he puts them on a bus and pays the B50.00 transport costs. Another service he provides is a phone call every month, just to make sure I am ok and that I am still being prescribed the same medication. Cannot complain about his service

[Pimay1]

In January I was in the Queen Sirikit Heart Hospital in Khon Khan for nine days. Angioplasty was performed and two stents were placed in my arteries. All state of the art equipment and total professional service. I was awake during the entire procedure. They even gave me a DVD of the procedure which was split between four large monitors. I was well satisfied with everything including the total cost which was approximately USD 6,800.

[wowfactor10]

How about enfore hospitals to begin to show their printed pricelists for each procedure clearly in eng and thai..?

how about make also printed governement price list for all traffic fines so we not have to negotiate with police officers..

[harryfrompattaya]

Please remember in America all people over 65 are covered by medicare which pays hospitals less than the bill even in Govt hospitals charged to Farangs

And all Hospitals take Medicare most even are glad even to take welfare clients and they even got less money

All Hospitals in Thailand are doing great buy their stock and be rich

[JLCrab]

I had ACL reconstruction knee surgery in Khon Kaen. I spent 8 days as inpatient. In USA, for early AM day surgery, if at the end of the day there were no complications, they would send you home at 6 PM.

I never knew the cost until I was given a bill in that, while the surgery was covered 100% by my Thai insurance company, the insurer refused to pay for the 2 Cokes I drank from the hospital private room minibar.

[SiSePuede419]

In January I was in the Queen Sirikit Heart Hospital in Khon Khan for nine days. Angioplasty was performed and two stents were placed in my arteries. All state of the art equipment and total professional service. I was awake during the entire procedure. They even gave me a DVD of the procedure which was split between four large monitors. I was well satisfied with everything including the total cost which was approximately USD 6,800.

I'm glad you're satisfied. That's a nice confirmation of something called "the placebo effect".

UNFORTUNATELY, there is no clinical evidence that shows any survival benefit of elective angioplasty as compared with medication.

http://harvardmagazine.com/2013/03/a-cardiac-conundrum

And I doubt there is any clinical evidence that shows medication is superior to lifestyle changes (diet, exercise, meditation).

But the average heart patient doesn't want to give up smoking and exercise for hours everyday and eat raw salads and do yoga.

Because they don't "want to".

So, there you have it folks. Many people with angioplasty go back for seconds, thirds, fourths, 5555. Why? Because they haven't solved the root cause of their CVD=genetics+lifestyle.

[smotherb]

I have been very pleased with the medical care I have received in Thailand. However, I do not live in a tourist trap--I believe that may be part of the difference. My wife collapsed, I took her to a good local hopsital, they put her in a private room performed several tests and gave her medication to reduce her very high blood pressure. Two days later with blood pressure back to normal, she was released. The bill was about $300 and that included two months of blood pressure medicine--my mother's BP medicine cost about $40/mo in the States and that was with full insurance coverage.

I had five broken ribs and a collapsed lung which was complicated by my own ignorance. I fell, hurt my ribs and went to a clinic in a resort town; they diagnosed bruised ribs and prescribed pain killers, muscle relaxers and anti-inflamatories. After three weeks, it was worse, I could not breathe. I went to my local hospital in Hatyai and was in surgery within two hours; they drained five litres of fluid from my lung cavity, but found I had several blood clots. The next day, after several more tests and specialists, I was back in the OR to remove the clots by major thoracic surgery. The docotrs said it would take three weeks for me to recover enough to be released. I had a private room which had a separate bedroom, two bathrooms, a full kitchen, two large screen TVs and enough comfortable furniture to seat a houseful of relatives. They gave me several medical tests-- MRIs, CTs, PFTs, ABGs, plethysmography, spirometry, x-rays, and numerous smaller blood and lung tests--I had 24/7 nurses, a plethora of medication, and four specialist doctors plus my GP. I recovered nicely with a delicate 11 inch rib cage scar from the thoracic surgery and a B10 coin-sized circular scar from the surgery to drain the fluids from my lung cavity. I was released from the hospital, at my insistance, in nine days. The thoracic surgeon was excellent, beyond criticism, he saw me twice before he took out the stiches, and then saw me every other month for the following year, all at no extra charge. The total bill was B240k, about $8k. I consider that a trivial cost for such great treatment, expensive tests, and complicated procedures-- the room would have cost more than that in the States. I have regained 100% lung capacity, all discomfort was gone in a year, the 11 inch scar looks as if it could have been done by a competent plastic surgeon--by comparison the circular scar, done by another surgeon, looks like it was performed in the hood with a can opener. I was 68 at the time. I rode my motorcycle the day after I got out of hospital. I feel great now and have no qualms about Thai medical care.

You feel satisfied with your procedures - which is what most patients feel when they don't die - it's a recognised syndrome a bit similar to "Stockholm" - all you have described is a procedure that would happen anywhere in the world and how YOU feel about it. - it is purely the perception of a single lay-person - and as your yardstick appears to be one of the worst healthcare systems in the western world one has to take that with a pinch of salt.

there is no analysis of the efficacy of the procedures used or how efficiently they were carried out or any comparison with treatment in other countries - this is of course nigh-on impossible in individual cases and one must have bilk stats to draw any concrete conclusions - in other words ANECDOTE!

The topic is foreigners being ripped off by Thai hospitals, not the quality of healthcare. I am sure I could have gotten that quality of healthcare at higher prices elsewhere. I am satisified with what happened to me and mine. Satisfied enough to trust a Thai doctor again. Yes, it is my opinion, but my opinion is the only one I have.

[soalbundy]

Most of the comments here are simply subjective or anecdotal. if the Thai authorities actually do a proper investigation it would of course be helpful as it is quite clear that no-one actually knows what the whole picture is in Thailand - this in itself is a very damning indictment of the way the Thai healthcare system is run.

however, as I said before it remains to be seen if a reliable report will be the outcome...on previous form, this would look doubtful.

Members may remember a few years back that the Abhisit government tried to bring in some customer rights legislation ...... this was greeted by a protest of doctors who wore black armbands suggesting it would restrict their ability to work effectively.......despite the fact that the regulations were similar to most successful healthcare systems in Europe.

If this is anything to go by, any inquiry into how hospitals are run - especially the lucrative private sector - will be met with stonewalling and lack of transparency.

I think all health care systems in Europe lose money and are supported with tax money. The Bat Tong or 30 Baht system costs the hospitals a lot of money,one way of making up the loss is to charge high prices for private patients so obviously the doctors do't want any changes there which i can understand. I have heard good reports from farangs who have gone to government hospitals, very cheap.

i don't actually see the relevance of your comments to my post - however you seem to have an unusual way of looking at healthcare financing and I'm unable to determine your implications.

Healthcare systems finances are usually expressed as cost per capita. The Euro-systems regardless of how they are financed are constantly the most cost -effective in the world with the highest standards of care.

whether the money is paid by insurance or tax the people still end up paying - unfortunately time and again private insurance based systems turn out to be more expensive and less universal.

Not arguing with you about the care and standards in Europe or that people end up paying either way, nothing is free. Not sure about the cost effectiveness though when i read about the chaos in the NH in the UK. I have lived most of my working life in Germany and still feel very connected to the place so i read German newspapers every day. There has been a lot of reports lately of unnecessary operations being carried out, especially on privately insured patients to fill the hospitals budgets,GP's like to perform lots of tests whose benefits are at best doubtful,according to Spiegel online. As for private insurance you are right but living here we can't get around that.

[MAJIC]

It isnt always the hospitals that are ripping you off. A fw years ago in the UK a doctor gave a prescription for some medicine to a patient. The paient went to the nearest pharmacist and handed the prescription over. The pharmicist looked at it and told the customer "If i give you what is on here it will cost you £45. If you look over on thee second row of shelves you can get the same and I will charge £2.75, it is upto you". The customer obviously went and picked the items off the shelf and paid the couple of pounds. Because the pharmicist had not charged the customer the prive for the prescription he was taken to court and heavily fined.

Moral is, sometimes it is others imposing a price not always the hospital or doctor

This story is nonsense and could not possibly have happened,here is why: 90% of UK Prescriptions are free! All Prescriptions have a maximum fixed price, for the coming April 2015 the maximum price has gone up to £8.20. So the ones that pay for their prescriptions,will only ever pay a maximum of £8.20! which is also the maximum a Pharmacist can charge in the UK!

[Thunderbirds20]

one very common practice is to vastly overcharge for medicine at the pharmacy. Every hospital I have been to does the same thing, ... the doctor prescribes some medication and you go to the cashier and pay, then receive the medicine from the pharmacy. I have stopped getting mecication at hospital pharmacies and request a prescription from the doctor then buy the medication at an outside pharmacy. One medication I got cost 1,800 baht for 60 days worth. The second time, I got a prescription and bought the same medication for the same length of time for 180 baht!!!

[cumgranosalum]

Most of the comments here are simply subjective or anecdotal. if the Thai authorities actually do a proper investigation it would of course be helpful as it is quite clear that no-one actually knows what the whole picture is in Thailand - this in itself is a very damning indictment of the way the Thai healthcare system is run.

however, as I said before it remains to be seen if a reliable report will be the outcome...on previous form, this would look doubtful.

Members may remember a few years back that the Abhisit government tried to bring in some customer rights legislation ...... this was greeted by a protest of doctors who wore black armbands suggesting it would restrict their ability to work effectively.......despite the fact that the regulations were similar to most successful healthcare systems in Europe.

If this is anything to go by, any inquiry into how hospitals are run - especially the lucrative private sector - will be met with stonewalling and lack of transparency.

I think all health care systems in Europe lose money and are supported with tax money. The Bat Tong or 30 Baht system costs the hospitals a lot of money,one way of making up the loss is to charge high prices for private patients so obviously the doctors do't want any changes there which i can understand. I have heard good reports from farangs who have gone to government hospitals, very cheap.

i don't actually see the relevance of your comments to my post - however you seem to have an unusual way of looking at healthcare financing and I'm unable to determine your implications.

Healthcare systems finances are usually expressed as cost per capita. The Euro-systems regardless of how they are financed are constantly the most cost -effective in the world with the highest standards of care.

whether the money is paid by insurance or tax the people still end up paying - unfortunately time and again private insurance based systems turn out to be more expensive and less universal.

Not arguing with you about the care and standards in Europe or that people end up paying either way, nothing is free. Not sure about the cost effectiveness though when i read about the chaos in the NH in the UK. I have lived most of my working life in Germany and still feel very connected to the place so i read German newspapers every day. There has been a lot of reports lately of unnecessary operations being carried out, especially on privately insured patients to fill the hospitals budgets,GP's like to perform lots of tests whose benefits are at best doubtful,according to Spiegel online. As for private insurance you are right but living here we can't get around that.

The UK NHS is in fact highly cost effective - there is a phenomenal aount of misinformation in the madia (anecdotal?) and there is a concerted campaign to dimantle all or part of it...largely by those who stand to profit from that.

thE German system is one of the best in the world and was the first universal system

"There has been a lot of reports lately of unnecessary operations being carried out, especially on privately insured patients to fill the hospitals budgets,GP's like to perform lots of tests whose benefits are at best doubtful,according to Spiegel online." - these kind of reports are frequently found in most countries in Europe and in reality are a GODD SIGN.....it means that people are monitoring the healthcare there and if they are found to be "fiddling" they are brought to account. sadly there ae no such systems in place in Thailand and if any miscreants is actually discovered, they are usually let off with no more than a slap on the wrist.

PS - the UK NHS was last year awarded a "number one in the world" by a US medical board of all people!. - "Commonwealth Fund, a Washington-based foundation which is respected around the world for its analysis of the performance of different countries' health systems."

so what was the point you were making?

[sporkyulp]

I needed ear surgery back in September. I was quoted a price by Bumrungreedy. I wound up going to have the surgery in Japan. It wasn't Tokyo but still. The price I paid for two ears and a four day stay in the university hospital in Japan was less than the quote I got for one ear and one night at Bum. Plus, the doctor in Japan was super nice and showed me all the sights and we went out to eat a few times. Thailand lost my money. My pills didn't come in a fancy paper bag but I had a much richer experience and saved some money.

[fvw53]

flyingdoc, on 11 May 2015 - 13:20, said:

Bumrungrad charge a deposit of 100,000 baht before treatment of any sort if staying overnight and then further charges on top. This far exceeds any charges at private hospitals in the U.K. !

What would you expect from a Public Listed Company ? Every hospital which is on the stock market scares me ...and I suspect the doctors have commission on turn over

[Praematura]

I've used Bumrumgrad, Pattaya-Bangkok, Pattaya memorial, the international hospital on soi 4(Pattaya) and the hospital in Phuket, Patong. Lots of motorcycle accidents. Never had any problems.

Again why not put this effort and resources towards the jet ski scammers.

[Prbkk]

The govt is right to be concerned about ripoffs and profiteering. Concurrently with acting on that concern it should investigate the outrageous pricing of imported drugs/medications. Thais and foreigners alike are being effectively denied access to 'gold standard' treatment because of pricing. Whether that is tax, mark up or the international drug company cartel/mafia , or a combination, I have no idea.

Example: plavix ( 1,000 B for 14 tablets) . Unsubsidised cost in a number of other counties is about half that. It's a good medication, many people would benefit from it, but it's hard to imagine that many Thais could afford it.

[NoshowJones]

Allow me to add a little sunshine among all the rip-off stories here.

Many years ago I cut my foot really badly when moving irrigation on a piece of land in the sticks. It was bleeding rivers, and of course I was alone in the middle of nowhere. Took me half an hour to walk to my motorbike, parked only 200 meters away. Tied my shirt around the foot to limit the bleeding and drove to the nearest rural hospital about 25 kilometers away. In and out of consciousness and bleeding like a pig, I more or less fell through the gates of the hospital.

Staff took very good care of me, cleaned the wound and stopped the bleeding. Called my wife, who picked me up in the car.

When asking for the bill, I got pleasantly surprised: "Emergency Sir, so it is free"

When I picked up my motorbike a week later, I brought them a large cake!!

So there are some good people within the healthcare system here!!

So, if I ever have to go to hospital for an emergency, it will be free. Great.