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TRANSNATIONAL HUMAN TRAFFICKING
PM: Myanmar can't be forced
The Nation, Agencies

BANGKOK: -- Thein Sein aide says country not likely to attend meeting on boat people; Prayu says this is neighbours' right

THAILAND could not force countries to attend a regional meeting in Bangkok this month to discuss how to manage the crisis over Bangladeshi and Rohingya migrants as every country has its own dignity, Prime Minister Prayut Chan-o-cha said yesterday.

He was referring to a surprising outburst by a Myanmar's presidential office director Zaw Htay, who said his country would not attend the meeting on May 29 and that Bangkok had initiated the summit simply to divert attention from such problems.

Prayut said: "Whoever wants to come can come. However, for those who don't, no one can force them. Every country has equal dignity."

However, he said the meeting was for the sake of all countries and Thailand was non-partisan and aimed to bring peace to society. Myanmar is thought to prepare measure to deal with the matter.

Zaw Htay told AFP: "We are unlikely to attend... we do not accept it if they (Thailand) are inviting us just to ease the pressure they are facing."

He said the root cause of the crisis was increasing human trafficking and said the discovery of graves in the far south of Thailand stemmed from Bangkok's inability to prevent |trafficking and weak rule of law.

"The root cause [of the crisis] is increasing human trafficking. The problem of the migrant graves is not a Myanmar problem - it's because of the weakness of human trafficking prevention and the rule of law in Thailand."

Myanmar did not regard the smuggling of Muslim Rohingya as its problem because it never recognised the Rohingya as one of its ethnic groups, he said, although they have lived in Myanmar for long time.

The Rohingya face severe hardship in Myanmar for decades including state crackdowns and violence, which has forced them to flee to third countries with the hope finding better lives.

The regional conference on migration and human-trafficking problems will feature senior officials from 15 Indian Ocean countries and other nations.

Prayut proposed the meeting recently after dozens of graves were unearthed in Songkhla in camps believed to holding areas where migrants - Rohingya from western Myanmar or Bangladeshis who travel south by boat - and wait to be sneaked across the border to Malaysia.

Asked if the absence of Myanmar would have an impact on the meeting, Prayut said the present obstacle was how Myanmar perceives the Rohingya.

"The issue of nationality of Rohingya is an affair of Myanmar, we should not intervene and have to respect it," he said, adding that international organisations had the duty of talking to Myanmar.

The United States will send a representative to attend the May 29 meeting, US Embassy charge d'affaires Patrick Murphy said. He spoke during a visit to Nakhon Si Thammarat, where he was briefed by Governor Pheerasak Hinmuangkao about the situation of Rohingya migrants in the province.

The governor said the province was just a place of transit for people being smuggled to border areas. Investigation into the smuggling had not found provincial officials involved in the trafficking.

Meanwhile, State Department Press Office director Jeff Rathke said the US was concerned by reports of thousands of additional Rohingya migrants on land and at sea in boats who may need humanitarian protection and assistance. He called on the US to encourage its allies in the region to accept the refugees, and for the US to consider providing humanitarian assistance, including the use of reconnaissance imagery and the deployment of naval and air assets if necessary, to rescue those in danger.

In related news, the Organisation of Islamic Cooperation's special envoy for Myanmar, Syed Hamid Albar, is urging Asean to take a leading role to mobilise support to solve the humanitarian crisis involving the Rohingya. He said the group must call an urgent meeting to resolve the crisis and take a regional approach on the issue.

"We can't afford to have anymore tragedies involving the boat people from Myanmar. Malaysia, Indonesia and Thailand in particular must discuss how to take care of these refugees and not let them drift away at sea," said Syed.

"Asean cannot sit idly about the human trafficking from Myanmar. Asean must take position on how to solve this humanitarian crisis collectively and engage with Myanmar.

"I hope the foreign ministers of Asean can quickly do something about this. We know the source of the problem is Myanmar but at the moment, there's no better way than for Asean to sit down together and engage with Myanmar government," said Syed, a former Malaysian foreign minister.

He praised Malaysia for accepting responsibility of taking care of Rohingya for many years and stated that Malaysia as chairman of Asean could play an important role in managing the crisis, but said "it should not be one country alone in Southeast Asia addressing the crisis".

UN Secretary General Ban Ki-moon also urged governments to ensure that the obligation of rescue at sea is upheld. "He also urges governments to facilitate timely disembarkation and keep their borders and ports open in order to help the vulnerable people who are in need," a statement from his office said.

Source: http://www.nationmultimedia.com/politics/PM-Myanmar-cant-be-forced-30260261.html

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-- The Nation 2015-05-16

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"Myanmar did not regard the smuggling of Muslim Rohingya as its problem because it never recognised the Rohingya as one of its ethnic groups, he said"

That's true, but previous Burmese governments have recognised Rohingya as one of the Burmese ethnic groups.

http://asiapacific.anu.edu.au/newmandala/2012/10/29/making-rohingya-statelessness/

Whilst the world stands by Myanmar is blatantly engaging in policies that lead to the horrors of ethnic cleansing.

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Has all the makings of quite a meeting featuring reps from various countries where making decisions and accepting responsibility is a non-starter.

Will we see a picture of all the delegates pointing at each other Thai style ?

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I don't see how Myanmar can remain a member of good standing in ASEAN if they refuse to participate in discussions to resolve the problem. If Rohingas were treated humanely in Myanmar they would not be escaping on boats in great numbers.

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Well, being that one of the high ranking Myanmar Government officials peripherally involved with the Rohingya purge was received at the Whitehouse, I doubt there will be much international pressure on Myanmar to solve the issue.

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He (Patrick Murphy/US Embassy) spoke during a visit to Nakhon Si Thammarat, where he was briefed by Governor Pheerasak Hinmuangkao about the situation of Rohingya migrants in the province.

The governor said the province was just a place of transit for people being smuggled to border areas. Investigation into the smuggling had not found provincial officials involved in the trafficking.

Nakhon Si is clean (of course)..., meanwhile next door in Songkhla:

Six immigration police officers implicated in human trafficking moved out of Sadao district

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Prayut says Rohinya problem needs cooperation from all sides to resolve

16-5-2558-10-50-29-wpcf_726x413.jpg

Thailand has considered the "Rohingya migration" problem a transnational problem and is inviting concerned countries and international communities to join in its effort to resolve the problem.

But Myanmar seemed to reject an invitation to join the upcoming international meeting in Thailand to discuss joint solutions to irregular maritime migration with other 15 countries.

Prime Minister General Prayut told reporters Friday that Thailand’ stance toward the problem is firm, pointing out that the problem needs to be jointly addressed by all concerned countries and international organizations.

Thailand should not be left to shoulder the burden alone, he said.

He made clear that his government will not allow any illegal migrant to stay in Thailand permanently, citing potential impacts they could cause to the Thai people.

The prime minister said any Rohingya people who enter Thailand illegally will be prosecuted and deported back to the country of origin.

Earlier Myanmar has indicated that it would not send its representatives to attend the international meeting over irregular maritime migration in Indian Ocean, which will be held in Bangkok on May 29.

15 countries which are affected by the problem have been invited to join the meeting.

Commenting on Myanmar’s stance, Gen Prayut said Myanmar was entitled to make its own decision.

Source: http://englishnews.thaipbs.or.th/prayut-says-rohinya-problem-needs-cooperation-from-all-sides-to-resolve

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-- Thai PBS 2015-05-16

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"Thailand is non-partisan" in this matter...What the hell does THAT mean? The Thai junta will do whatever suits them best, it's certainly not acting objectively.

Military, police, local authorities and civilians profiting from human trafficking. Sounds pretty damn partisan to me.

That the plight of the victims originated in another country does not excuse the misdeeds of Thais.

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"He praised Malaysia for accepting responsibility of taking care of Rohingya for many years". By giving them a hard hat and shovel and paying them $20 a month

"The governor said the province was just a place of transit for people being smuggled to border areas. Investigation into the smuggling had not found provincial officials involved in the trafficking." Well of course not whistling.gif

Edited by ExPratt
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Myanmar “not ready to discuss Rohingya exodus”

16-5-2558-11-29-25-wpcf_728x413.jpg

Myanmar's Deputy Foreign Minister Thant Kyaw told Voice of America (Myanmar Service) on Thursday that the government was not prepared to discuss the flood of migrants from Bangladesh and Myanmar's Arakan State if it was framed as a Rohingya issue, according to The Irrawaddy.

He told VOA that ASEAN nations had expressed interest in holding discussions but, referring to the country’s Rohingya minority, said that “It will be meaningless to discuss [the issue] since our country and our people do not accept them.”

He added that the government could examine whether the fleeing migrants are citizens of Myanmar.

If they can demonstrate they belong to Myanmar, the government is willing to consider the issue, he said.

Thant Kyaw said this after Thailand announce to hold a regional meeting in Bangkok on May 29 to address the “root causes” of the flow of migrants.

Thousands of migrants are believed to be adrift in Southeast Asian seas, with no country willing to accept them — a situation the UN has warned could develop into a “massive humanitarian disaster.”

Source: http://englishnews.thaipbs.or.th/myanmar-not-ready-to-discuss-rohingya-exodus

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-- Thai PBS 2015-05-16

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Prayut says Rohinya problem needs cooperation from all sides to resolve

16-5-2558-10-50-29-wpcf_726x413.jpg

Thailand has considered the "Rohingya migration" problem a transnational problem and is inviting concerned countries and international communities to join in its effort to resolve the problem.

But Myanmar seemed to reject an invitation to join the upcoming international meeting in Thailand to discuss joint solutions to irregular maritime migration with other 15 countries.

Prime Minister General Prayut told reporters Friday that Thailand’ stance toward the problem is firm, pointing out that the problem needs to be jointly addressed by all concerned countries and international organizations.

Thailand should not be left to shoulder the burden alone, he said.

He made clear that his government will not allow any illegal migrant to stay in Thailand permanently, citing potential impacts they could cause to the Thai people.

The prime minister said any Rohingya people who enter Thailand illegally will be prosecuted and deported back to the country of origin.

Earlier Myanmar has indicated that it would not send its representatives to attend the international meeting over irregular maritime migration in Indian Ocean, which will be held in Bangkok on May 29.

15 countries which are affected by the problem have been invited to join the meeting.

Commenting on Myanmar’s stance, Gen Prayut said Myanmar was entitled to make its own decision.

Source: http://englishnews.thaipbs.or.th/prayut-says-rohinya-problem-needs-cooperation-from-all-sides-to-resolve

thaipbs_logo.jpg

-- Thai PBS 2015-05-16

the "Rohingya migration" problem a transnational problem

And so Prayuty can dodge the problem complely. He's probably happy that Mayanmar will not attend Prayut's meeting on the problem. Attendance might otherwise force Prayut to react to the problem.

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"The root cause [of the crisis] is increasing human trafficking. The problem of the migrant graves is not a Myanmar problem - it's because of the weakness of human trafficking prevention and the rule of law in Thailand."

I thought this a refreshing statement in a group of countries all blaming others...

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It all boils down to a single word Muslim- unfortunately they are not exactly the flavour of the month at the moment.

All this is not new - a read through the Wiki article is interesting - as usual the British Empire had a lot to do with it! ( of course has had an effect at home- a child born in Birmingham is more likely to be born Muslim than Christian )

This is up to Burma - they are meant to be moving into the 21st century- but as usual the Muslims in Rahkine state want autonomy and Sharia ( you can't be governed by man made laws- only laws sent down from the winged sky fairy )

Maybe Burma should say here you are- have this separate state- and given the recent history of Muslim countries they will fail. Instead of science- learning the Koran by heart- the way forward to prosperity.

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It all boils down to a single word Muslim- unfortunately they are not exactly the flavour of the month at the moment.

All this is not new - a read through the Wiki article is interesting - as usual the British Empire had a lot to do with it! ( of course has had an effect at home- a child born in Birmingham is more likely to be born Muslim than Christian )

This is up to Burma - they are meant to be moving into the 21st century- but as usual the Muslims in Rahkine state want autonomy and Sharia ( you can't be governed by man made laws- only laws sent down from the winged sky fairy )

Maybe Burma should say here you are- have this separate state- and given the recent history of Muslim countries they will fail. Instead of science- learning the Koran by heart- the way forward to prosperity.

The lies about the Rohingya get worse and worse and the above is a prime example.

There is no evidence that the Rohingya of Rahkine state want either autonomy or sharia. What they do want is IDs that have been taken away from their parents, to live and trade peacefully without fascist Buddhist monks stirring up those that they lived peacefully with for years.

Instead of expressing your obvious hatred of (all?) Muslims why not learn some facts and do some research on (for example) how many generations have lived in Burma/Myanmar. Start around 1825.

BTW the Burmese military have an appalling record of treating all the different indigenous people (Shan, Akha etc) and are still at a virtual state of war against some of them.

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Regardless of anything else, can we not perhaps give those still on the boats a few hundred square meters of beach to sit on while we figure it out?

Forcing a distressed vessel back out to sea is barbaric. There must be a better way.

Edited by cocopops
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It all boils down to a single word Muslim- unfortunately they are not exactly the flavour of the month at the moment.

All this is not new - a read through the Wiki article is interesting - as usual the British Empire had a lot to do with it! ( of course has had an effect at home- a child born in Birmingham is more likely to be born Muslim than Christian )

This is up to Burma - they are meant to be moving into the 21st century- but as usual the Muslims in Rahkine state want autonomy and Sharia ( you can't be governed by man made laws- only laws sent down from the winged sky fairy )

Maybe Burma should say here you are- have this separate state- and given the recent history of Muslim countries they will fail. Instead of science- learning the Koran by heart- the way forward to prosperity.

The lies about the Rohingya get worse and worse and the above is a prime example.

There is no evidence that the Rohingya of Rahkine state want either autonomy or sharia. What they do want is IDs that have been taken away from their parents, to live and trade peacefully without fascist Buddhist monks stirring up those that they lived peacefully with for years.

Instead of expressing your obvious hatred of (all?) Muslims why not learn some facts and do some research on (for example) how many generations have lived in Burma/Myanmar. Start around 1825.

BTW the Burmese military have an appalling record of treating all the different indigenous people (Shan, Akha etc) and are still at a virtual state of war against some of them.

This has been going on for years- 1825 ( not sure where this date comes from in the scheme of things it's peanuts) . Have done as much research as I can.

Did you not read- it's up to Burma to sort this out- not push the problem on surrounding countries .

Do I love Muslims - no . This is a regressive appalling cult, they have gone from a leading scientific, artistic, cultural leading light in the world to one of oppression of women, homophobia , genital mutilation of men and women, poverty, total hatred of other faiths. They have embraced the idea of blowing up infidels with lead to a place in paradise ( does not exist) , they carry out genocide. They kill other Muslims - Sunni & Shia who don't quite follow some crap that happened centuries ago.

Sorry the Muslim agenda is the ultimate Caliphate - the world has moved on. Keep the masses illiterate- control them through the mosques- it's medieval times again.

Show me one, progressive, successful Muslim country where all the citizens are treated equally

Waiting for your reply

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From Wiki

March riots in Meiktila[edit]

Tensions between Buddhist and Muslim ethnic groups flared into violent clashes in Meiktila on March 20 and continued until the 22nd, killing at least 40 and wounding 61 people. The violence started on March 20 after a Muslim gold shop owner, his wife, and two Muslim employees assaulted a Buddhist customer and her husband in an argument over a golden hairpin. A large mob formed and began to destroy the shop. The heavily outnumbered police reportedly told the mob to disperse after they had destroyed the shop.[1] In the evening, a local Buddhist monk not involved in the incident was dragged from his bicycle, doused in petrol, and burnt alive by six Muslim youths at a nearby mosque.[2]The killing of the monk caused the relatively contained situation to explode, greatly increasing intensity and violence.[1]

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It seem very obvious that the only problem the Burmese government has with the Rohingya people is it can't get rid of them fast enough. So of course they do not want to cooperate with anybody or anything that might prevent the Rohingya departing Burma.

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The invitation was sent to 15 countries! Really? Who is the Chair of the meeting? What is the agenda, besides stopping unwanted people from entering Thailand?

I seriously doubt that anyone on the invitation list has any experience or expertise to pull this off. Why not get the UN involved and some gravitas and experience to the table?

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Asian is a joke. ""Our neighbor is commiting genocide but we should not blame our neighbor because we are all mmembers of Asian and we must respecct each others rights"

You paint with a very broad brush.

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It all boils down to a single word Muslim- unfortunately they are not exactly the flavour of the month at the moment.

All this is not new - a read through the Wiki article is interesting - as usual the British Empire had a lot to do with it! ( of course has had an effect at home- a child born in Birmingham is more likely to be born Muslim than Christian )

This is up to Burma - they are meant to be moving into the 21st century- but as usual the Muslims in Rahkine state want autonomy and Sharia ( you can't be governed by man made laws- only laws sent down from the winged sky fairy )

Maybe Burma should say here you are- have this separate state- and given the recent history of Muslim countries they will fail. Instead of science- learning the Koran by heart- the way forward to prosperity.

The lies about the Rohingya get worse and worse and the above is a prime example.

There is no evidence that the Rohingya of Rahkine state want either autonomy or sharia. What they do want is IDs that have been taken away from their parents, to live and trade peacefully without fascist Buddhist monks stirring up those that they lived peacefully with for years.

Instead of expressing your obvious hatred of (all?) Muslims why not learn some facts and do some research on (for example) how many generations have lived in Burma/Myanmar. Start around 1825.

BTW the Burmese military have an appalling record of treating all the different indigenous people (Shan, Akha etc) and are still at a virtual state of war against some of them.

This has been going on for years- 1825 ( not sure where this date comes from in the scheme of things it's peanuts) . Have done as much research as I can.

Did you not read- it's up to Burma to sort this out- not push the problem on surrounding countries .

Do I love Muslims - no . This is a regressive appalling cult, they have gone from a leading scientific, artistic, cultural leading light in the world to one of oppression of women, homophobia , genital mutilation of men and women, poverty, total hatred of other faiths. They have embraced the idea of blowing up infidels with lead to a place in paradise ( does not exist) , they carry out genocide. They kill other Muslims - Sunni & Shia who don't quite follow some crap that happened centuries ago.

Sorry the Muslim agenda is the ultimate Caliphate - the world has moved on. Keep the masses illiterate- control them through the mosques- it's medieval times again.

Show me one, progressive, successful Muslim country where all the citizens are treated equally

Waiting for your reply

Yes I read your comment about Burma's problem but unfortunately you added that it's all the Muslims in Rahkine state's fault. In only one way is it their fault - that they are there and easy targets for the terrorists that have attacked them and driven them into squalid camps from which they are fuel for the traffickers.

I'm not going to get into an off topic argument with a Muslim hater that uses that hate to distort what is a humanitarian crisis into being the victims' fault.

Even Prayuth seems to have grasped that it's the Myanmar government that needs to address the issue.

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Well, being that one of the high ranking Myanmar Government officials peripherally involved with the Rohingya purge was received at the Whitehouse, I doubt there will be much international pressure on Myanmar to solve the issue.

Well Saddam and Osama were once friends of America, so anythings possible.

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It all boils down to a single word Muslim- unfortunately they are not exactly the flavour of the month at the moment.

All this is not new - a read through the Wiki article is interesting - as usual the British Empire had a lot to do with it! ( of course has had an effect at home- a child born in Birmingham is more likely to be born Muslim than Christian )

This is up to Burma - they are meant to be moving into the 21st century- but as usual the Muslims in Rahkine state want autonomy and Sharia ( you can't be governed by man made laws- only laws sent down from the winged sky fairy )

Maybe Burma should say here you are- have this separate state- and given the recent history of Muslim countries they will fail. Instead of science- learning the Koran by heart- the way forward to prosperity.

The lies about the Rohingya get worse and worse and the above is a prime example.

There is no evidence that the Rohingya of Rahkine state want either autonomy or sharia. What they do want is IDs that have been taken away from their parents, to live and trade peacefully without fascist Buddhist monks stirring up those that they lived peacefully with for years.

Instead of expressing your obvious hatred of (all?) Muslims why not learn some facts and do some research on (for example) how many generations have lived in Burma/Myanmar. Start around 1825.

BTW the Burmese military have an appalling record of treating all the different indigenous people (Shan, Akha etc) and are still at a virtual state of war against some of them.

This has been going on for years- 1825 ( not sure where this date comes from in the scheme of things it's peanuts) . Have done as much research as I can.

Did you not read- it's up to Burma to sort this out- not push the problem on surrounding countries .

Do I love Muslims - no . This is a regressive appalling cult, they have gone from a leading scientific, artistic, cultural leading light in the world to one of oppression of women, homophobia , genital mutilation of men and women, poverty, total hatred of other faiths. They have embraced the idea of blowing up infidels with lead to a place in paradise ( does not exist) , they carry out genocide. They kill other Muslims - Sunni & Shia who don't quite follow some crap that happened centuries ago.

Sorry the Muslim agenda is the ultimate Caliphate - the world has moved on. Keep the masses illiterate- control them through the mosques- it's medieval times again.

Show me one, progressive, successful Muslim country where all the citizens are treated equally

Waiting for your reply

If I was Muslim (and I´m not), I would answer your question

¨Show me one, progressive, successful Muslim country where all the citizens are treated equally¨

With

Israel

cheesy.gif

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Perhaps these people should be shared around the countries adjoining Myannmar since they originate in this general area of the globe, with each country willing to accept as many as their own countrymen have been accepted in other nations around the world.

In the 21st Century it is a disgrace that we still have this lack of humanity or care for our fellow humans. Thailand is simply a group of people who have settled in one part of the world and now seek to exclude all others - the same as any other country. The land is not theirs it is merely on lease to them for the duration they are alive.

Nationalism is one thing - inhumane treatment of people just because they are not born in your little corner of the world is something completely different. These nations should be ashamed - especially Burma for making them refugees and Thailand for standing by so that 'big people' can make a ton of money out of other peoples misery for so long. The same is going on in the forestry and drug trades. Really it is time to stop all this.

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It all boils down to a single word Muslim- unfortunately they are not exactly the flavour of the month at the moment.

All this is not new - a read through the Wiki article is interesting - as usual the British Empire had a lot to do with it! ( of course has had an effect at home- a child born in Birmingham is more likely to be born Muslim than Christian )

This is up to Burma - they are meant to be moving into the 21st century- but as usual the Muslims in Rahkine state want autonomy and Sharia ( you can't be governed by man made laws- only laws sent down from the winged sky fairy )

Maybe Burma should say here you are- have this separate state- and given the recent history of Muslim countries they will fail. Instead of science- learning the Koran by heart- the way forward to prosperity.

The lies about the Rohingya get worse and worse and the above is a prime example.

There is no evidence that the Rohingya of Rahkine state want either autonomy or sharia. What they do want is IDs that have been taken away from their parents, to live and trade peacefully without fascist Buddhist monks stirring up those that they lived peacefully with for years.

Instead of expressing your obvious hatred of (all?) Muslims why not learn some facts and do some research on (for example) how many generations have lived in Burma/Myanmar. Start around 1825.

BTW the Burmese military have an appalling record of treating all the different indigenous people (Shan, Akha etc) and are still at a virtual state of war against some of them.

This has been going on for years- 1825 ( not sure where this date comes from in the scheme of things it's peanuts) . Have done as much research as I can.

Did you not read- it's up to Burma to sort this out- not push the problem on surrounding countries .

Do I love Muslims - no . This is a regressive appalling cult, they have gone from a leading scientific, artistic, cultural leading light in the world to one of oppression of women, homophobia , genital mutilation of men and women, poverty, total hatred of other faiths. They have embraced the idea of blowing up infidels with lead to a place in paradise ( does not exist) , they carry out genocide. They kill other Muslims - Sunni & Shia who don't quite follow some crap that happened centuries ago.

Sorry the Muslim agenda is the ultimate Caliphate - the world has moved on. Keep the masses illiterate- control them through the mosques- it's medieval times again.

Show me one, progressive, successful Muslim country where all the citizens are treated equally

Waiting for your reply

Yes I read your comment about Burma's problem but unfortunately you added that it's all the Muslims in Rahkine state's fault. In only one way is it their fault - that they are there and easy targets for the terrorists that have attacked them and driven them into squalid camps from which they are fuel for the traffickers.

I'm not going to get into an off topic argument with a Muslim hater that uses that hate to distort what is a humanitarian crisis into being the victims' fault.

Even Prayuth seems to have grasped that it's the Myanmar government that needs to address the issue.

Oops you can't answer my question, no I don't hate the Muslims - there are families , children who are just ordinary people.

It's the faith I dislike- it's totally hypocrisy - have you been in an S&M underground gay club in Bahrain? - I have.

Acid attacks?

Forced marriages

97% of girls undergoing FGM in some Muslim countries.

Endless first cousin marriages.

ISIS

The slaughter of teachers in the Deep South.

No off course you won't go off topic- the problem is these people are Muslim- do to the events in the world at the moment ( Boston etc) they are not welcome in Buddhist countries.

Maybe the Muslim ' community ' should look after their own - they could not give a s***t about their brothers and sisters unless there was money involved.

This is reality - not some wonderful left wing fuzzy reality

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