Medical insurance for retirees in Chiang Mai....any help?

[beau thai]

One of the main international hospitals in Udon Thani (AEK) had a sign in the lobby stating that Blue Cross customers needed to pay when services were rendered. They have the name, but I wouldn't call it the gold standard.

It was BUPA described as Gold Standard- are you confusing them with Blue Cross or are they the same group now????

[jingjoke]

As noted insurance companies need that six months time interval to be certain all possible billings are routed to their office for clearance prior to issuing a new policy due to some possibly having had hospitalization weeks or even days before their policies ended.

And yes, with BUPA and others, costs escalate each year despite you yourself having made no claims. That was the reason for my not renewing BUPA after a decade as their renewal costs proved prohibitive. It seems this applies to all age groups but more so to seniors as you will discover.

I am now with another company having opportunely squeezed in just before their 65 age limitation, as they required pre-insurance medical checks which take time to do and to subsequently analyze and approve.

As a pertinent aside an inexpensive albeit 'short-lived for farangs' Thai Govt Medical Plan was set up a few years ago for essentially Burmese and other non-Thai workers, of which we farangs of all ages attempted to slowly and methodically inform and try to avail ourselves. In the immediate meantime within the first weeks, even days, someone zealously raced numerous, chronically-ill, almost destitute farang seniors to Nakornping Hospital particularly and to a lesser extent other Chiangmai government hospitals. This, as was expected, overwhelmed the system.

Despite observations from TV'ers that this was unwise, the onslaught of impoverished close-to-terminally-ill and long-term seriously-ill seniors continued with the result that the Thai Govt Medical Plan was soon clarified to abruptly and pointedly exclude farangs of all ages, even the many with no immediate health concerns

It seems seniority does impose limitations in all insurance schemes.

Edited May 25, 2015 by jingjoke

[bangmai]

One of the main international hospitals in Udon Thani (AEK) had a sign in the lobby stating that Blue Cross customers needed to pay when services were rendered. They have the name, but I wouldn't call it the gold standard.

It was BUPA described as Gold Standard- are you confusing them with Blue Cross or are they the same group now????

BUPA merged with Blue Cross in 1996, and is commonly called many variations of BUPA Blue Cross.

[bangmai]

Here is another company, International Medical Group, that will give you an instant online quote for a travel medical policy good for up to two years. https://purchase.imglobal.com/quote/patriot/pre-quote

[JoePai]

Try the local Brokers - AA Insurance Brokers : www.aainsure.net

[bangmai]

Try the local Brokers - AA Insurance Brokers : www.aainsure.net

I've gotten quotes from them....about double what I've paid with HCC and IMG...didn't have fast online quotes, either.

[NancyL]

As a pertinent aside an inexpensive albeit 'short-lived for farangs' Thai Govt Medical Plan was set up a few years ago for essentially Burmese and other non-Thai workers, of which we farangs of all ages attempted to slowly and methodically inform and try to avail ourselves. In the immediate meantime within the first weeks, even days, someone zealously raced numerous, chronically-ill, almost destitute farang seniors to Nakornping Hospital particularly and to a lesser extent other Chiangmai government hospitals. This, as was expected, overwhelmed the system.

Despite observations from TV'ers that this was unwise, the onslaught of impoverished close-to-terminally-ill and long-term seriously-ill seniors continued with the result that the Thai Govt Medical Plan was soon clarified to abruptly and pointedly exclude farangs of all ages, even the many with no immediate health concerns

It seems seniority does impose limitations in all insurance schemes.

It's appalling when someone decries people in need seeking medical care, apparently expecting them to wait when, in fact it's been offered to them, apparently expecting them to wait suffering serious illnesses while younger and healthier foreigners decide to get with the program and sign up so the program is appropriately balanced.

Instead, the ones who should be ashamed of themselves are the foreigners who complained about having to go ALL the way out to Nakorn Ping hospital, about not being able to select their doctor, about the hospitals not having English-language websites, about how they're healthy now and they'll sign up when they need it and how they already can buy health insurance for a reasonable price, so why do they need government health insurance, etc, etc. THEY are the ones who made the program fail -- and the Thai government officials who didn't think thru all the ramifications of opening the program to all foreigners, not just the ones from neighboring countries.

Edited May 25, 2015 by NancyL

[bangmai]

let me see....the young didn't sign up....the older only did if they had a big subsidy or were seriously ill, or just waited until they were in the ambulance. After all, there is no denying coverage. What part is different than ACA in America?

[bluebluewater]

Google Pattaya Expats club. join their Group Health plan. Cheaper than most options at our age.

If the Chiang mai expat club doesnt offer group Health may be worth considering the same company that Pattaya Expats Club uses - if they are happy with it??

Have found the HH Expats Club Medical is better than Pattaya.

I would guess that the HH expats club is for Hua Hin? And if so I've done the search and I can find a club so named or any links to it. Perhaps you can give me a link?

[amexpat]

let me see....the young didn't sign up....the older only did if they had a big subsidy or were seriously ill, or just waited until they were in the ambulance. After all, there is no denying coverage. What part is different than ACA in America?

I'm sure Thailander would be happy to discuss it with you, if you can find him.

[NancyL]

Obviously it isn't a good idea for this thread to degenerate into a discussion of the ACA, but one feature that makes it work that it's mandatory and that was the problem I was highlighting with the Thai gov't opening their health insurance program to resident foreigners without making it mandatory. The ones most likely to enroll were those most in need. Those who didn't need it (or didn't need it at the time) only could criticize the shortcomings of the program rather than support it.

This is the same problem we have in trying to come up with a group health insurance plan for CM Expats Club -- it's an older population and participation in the program would be voluntary (of course) so those who are younger, healthier and had other options are less interested in a group health insurance plan.

Note the OPs age, after all.

[TheAppletons]

Obviously it isn't a good idea for this thread to degenerate into a discussion of the ACA, but one feature that makes it work that it's mandatory and that was the problem I was highlighting with the Thai gov't opening their health insurance program to resident foreigners without making it mandatory. The ones most likely to enroll were those most in need. Those who didn't need it (or didn't need it at the time) only could criticize the shortcomings of the program rather than support it.

This is the same problem we have in trying to come up with a group health insurance plan for CM Expats Club -- it's an older population and participation in the program would be voluntary (of course) so those who are younger, healthier and had other options are less interested in a group health insurance plan.

Note the OPs age, after all.

That's sort of the problem with health insurance in general, though, isn't it? Younger and healthier people are expected to subsidize the healthcare usage of older and unhealthier people...when they don't, the scheme falls apart.

[bangmai]

The proposed Medicare voucher system would have been the best thing to happen to expats 65+, since the end of the Japanese occupation.

[beau thai]

One of the main international hospitals in Udon Thani (AEK) had a sign in the lobby stating that Blue Cross customers needed to pay when services were rendered. They have the name, but I wouldn't call it the gold standard.

It was BUPA described as Gold Standard- are you confusing them with Blue Cross or are they the same group now????

BUPA merged with Blue Cross in 1996, and is commonly called many variations of BUPA Blue Cross.

Ok Blue Cross thailand as opposed to Blue Cross Groups USA which, since last year, partner with Bupa. 2 different outfits .

[bangmai]

There are different divisions, just like Honda, Toyota, and most others. No matter who it is; I would find out what hospitals offer direct billing to your insurance company. When you are horizontal on a gurney is really not a good time to find out. I know HCC will pay RAM and Bumrungrad direct, and they have a 24/7 collect number to call. I usually look at their list of providers in any city I travel too, beforehand. Ever notice how the billing/cashiers are located very close to the front door?

Here is a pdf of Thai medical facilities that have a relationship with HCC. hcc.pdf

Edited May 26, 2015 by bangmai

[MFW09]

To Nancy,

I am a member of a group scheme in Bangkok. We are underwritten by a UK company.I think that I am the youngest at 51 yrs . The oldest that I know of 70 yrs.

I think that we can take on new members as long as they are younger than 67 yrs. Contact me for more details. Steve

[lexilis]

Has anyone in this discussion had any experience with the Thai Social Security medical coverage? I have it and never have used it, though I have heard other long-stay expats here (with work permits, etc.) say it has covered basically all expenses for a hospital stay. Apparently you can pay a bit to upgrade to a private room and perhaps other amenities. I didn't really ask about the details in a casual discussion. I would like to see a statement of what and how much is covered by the Thai SS but I have never been able to find one (certainly not in English). Anyone?

[uptheos]

being in the similar situation i always get travel insurance which is quite cheap for the duration of my visit.i buy it with my ticket for about 100$ .

of course it is limited to about 5000$ but i used it once and got reimbursed 1800.-.well worth it.

How long is that for?

Anyone over say 70 know where long term travel insurance is available for maybe 8 months?

[bangmai]

OK, it's 14:00. My travel/medical expires on the 31st of May. I will post back after I obtain my new policy. I think I will buy a two month policy.

[bangmai]

Whew! What a day. Now, 14:08. I have new policy/id card on my computer and in email. 202.52 usd, 1 million usd in coverage/250 usd deductible. Policy is for 61 days. It is also backed by LLoyd's of London. Cheers!

[elektrified]

Whew! What a day. Now, 14:08. I have new policy/id card on my computer and in email. 202.52 usd, 1 million usd in coverage/250 usd deductible. Policy is for 61 days. It is also backed by LLoyd's of London. Cheers!

Right, and one of these days they are going to figure out that you are a resident of Thailand and not a tourist and deny your claim. This comes from first-hand experience with one of the same type of companies.

Insurance companies have investigators that look for people who attempt to bend the rules to their satisfaction.

[bangmai]

Not all companies are the same. My personal agent knows I am already here. Each policy is extendable for up to 364 days. In my case the calendar just restarted. The other company offers two year policies. Very few of us are permanent residents. They cover a lot of missionaries and students, who are here for years at a time. They are more concerned with how much time you spend in the US, than Thailand. Of course, you could call them on their 800 number and ask them, like I did, but that would be the easy way.

[amexpat]

Is it up to your personal agent to authorize or deny claims?

[bangmai]

Some of the companies require you to be in your home country, when the policy is purchased. These two are not among them. I've read the small print, and I've read their ratings. We have civil court juries in the US.....worst case scenario.

[NancyL]

Has anyone in this discussion had any experience with the Thai Social Security medical coverage? I have it and never have used it, though I have heard other long-stay expats here (with work permits, etc.) say it has covered basically all expenses for a hospital stay. Apparently you can pay a bit to upgrade to a private room and perhaps other amenities. I didn't really ask about the details in a casual discussion. I would like to see a statement of what and how much is covered by the Thai SS but I have never been able to find one (certainly not in English). Anyone?

I don't have Thai Social Security medical coverage, but I closely follow the Heath forum and what the moderator Sheryl writes. She is a big fan of the Thai Social Security medical coverage and urges everyone to continue to pay into the system to continue the coverage after they leave their jobs if they plan to remain in Thailand, but not work. She also urges people to visit their employer and learn which hospitals they're able to register and she will tell you which is the best one on the list and apparently you're suppose to go and register ahead of having a need for care and that way you'll be able to go and get care when you need it. If you wait until you have an actual need to care, then you may find you're sent to the worst hospital of the ones that you're able to use.

It sounds like a really good deal and you really a should education yourself more about it. Talk with people you work with, visit the Thai Visa Health forum. Maybe even learn to read (and type) Thai. It's not as hard as it would seem. That's what I've done. The Thai gov't websites are often written in a straightforward fashion.

Edited May 28, 2015 by NancyL

[elektrified]

Some of the companies require you to be in your home country, when the policy is purchased. These two are not among them. I've read the small print, and I've read their ratings. We have civil court juries in the US.....worst case scenario.

No, incorrect. I've been down this path before with one of the same companies you recommended under your alter ego. I had already been living in Europe for two years at that point. They did some simple investigating and flat out denied my claim. The guy from the company even told me that after two years one is no longer considered a tourist, traveler, or whatever you want to call it in the eyes of an insurance company. You are a resident of another country and must purchase insurance in your country of residence.

Forget court, they would laugh you out the door. you are living in Thailand, not America.

[bangmai]

Tell the jailed soccer bosses that.....I also maintain residency in the US. They even send me emails, when it is time to renew. You underestimate the rule of law in the US. I, too, have a dislike for insurance companies, but they are a necessary evil. The consumer has so many more rights in the US, where the policy was purchased. You refuse to take the simple step and call them. I graduated from business school, bending the rules is for mini-golf; not how I do business. Try ripoff reports or bad business bureau......billions in sales..where are the complaints?

[sappersrest]

Some of the companies require you to be in your home country, when the policy is purchased. These two are not among them. I've read the small print, and I've read their ratings. We have civil court juries in the US.....worst case scenario.

A civil court jury is no good to you after your massive heart attack and you are in icu recovering. and the insurance company fails to pay out where does that leave you?

No good relying on litigation to get you out of trouble!!

If you are retired in Thailand ( it may even be the reason for your visa extension) no travel insurance is going to pay out.

the original thread was medical insurance for retirees in Chiang Mai not travellers passing through.

But if you feel happy with your cover so be it.

[bangmai]

retirees are on visas and aren't permanent in the eyes of immigration.....same with students and missionaries. If you are a US Citizen; your home residence is always the US (in HCC's view). If you are a citizen of another country, your residence is where you reside. Their policies also fulfil insurance requirements to visit EU Countries. Fortunately, I only had one small claim for a dental emergency, was on an O-A for purposes of retirement, living in the condo I own, and had been here for 6 months. I left RAM without one THB out of pocket. They are online right now with free chat at HCC; why don't you tell them the truth and see what they say. That's what I did. They are charging me about 1/4 of what I would pay in the US, but costs are about 1/6....so it is a good niche market for them. If you think the Thai Government is going to cover healthcare costs for retirees, who aren't Thai born, nor paid into the system for years...what you really need is mental health care. Another poster keeps repeating about his denial, but we've never seen the details. Run some of the entities mentioned here on www.scamaudit.com wwww.imglobal.com gets a 91%, hcc gets an 81%.

[elektrified]

retirees are on visas and aren't permanent in the eyes of immigration.....same with students and missionaries. If you are a US Citizen; your home residence is always the US (in HCC's view). If you are a citizen of another country, your residence is where you reside. Their policies also fulfil insurance requirements to visit EU Countries. Fortunately, I only had one small claim for a dental emergency, was on an O-A for purposes of retirement, living in the condo I own, and had been here for 6 months. I left RAM without one THB out of pocket. They are online right now with free chat at HCC; why don't you tell them the truth and see what they say. That's what I did. They are charging me about 1/4 of what I would pay in the US, but costs are about 1/6....so it is a good niche market for them. If you think the Thai Government is going to cover healthcare costs for retirees, who aren't Thai born, nor paid into the system for years...what you really need is mental health care. Another poster keeps repeating about his denial, but we've never seen the details. Run some of the entities mentioned here on www.scamaudit.com wwww.imglobal.com gets a 91%, hcc gets an 81%.

IMGLOBAL is the company that denied my claim! hccmis...same company (I followed and old IMG link and it takes me right to hccmis!) Next....

End of discussion with you. Been there, done that.....You are trying to pull a scam and if you attempt to file a substantial claim, they will investigate you and go out of their way to deny your claim. It's also insurance fraud. There is a reason no one is listening to you. Get it?