Texas shootout among rival biker gangs leaves 9 dead

[boomerangutang]

Wasn't Waco also the scene of the fight with Branch Davidians? They seem to like a good shootout in that city.

Yes, and it's also Steve Martin's home town.

as long as no civilians were killed, that scum can continue to thin out their darwin members

Social Security will be paying out nine less disability checks in a few months. I've tried to think of a reason to feel sympathy for bikers, ....but I can't. the needle on my compassion meter won't even jiggle.

[NeverSure]

Comprehensive legislation is needed to address the real issues of gun ownership and possession and no amount of blue smoke and mirrors can obscure or deflect from the fact and reality.

LOL. Did your mommy forget to tuck you in last night?

The "legislation to control the real issues of gun ownership and possession" have been in place for a long time. The problem is that criminals by definition pay no attention to legislation.

Do you somehow believe that what took place here with these gangs was legal and should be outlawed, LOL? YOU go tell them there's legislation forbidding what they do. Better yet, next time stand between all of them and tell them that 555.

It was already illegal and there were already a whole bunch of police there to try to enforce the law and it still went down. The real answer is to lock these criminals up forever.

Cheers

[aaacorp]

In most of the countries, a 190 bikers meeting who are criminals and known to carry guns will not happen, either by putting police at every corner and control anyone on a bike and preventing them to come to the event with a weapon.

If i follow the logic of the pro guns here, the police is totally useless then as they have all the laws they need to prevent this and knew this.

"gun is a tool" - > a tool which only purpose is to kill or aim, not like a knife or chain or baseball bat.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lL8JEEt2RxI

[goreme]

Firearms killed 32,251 people in the United States in 2011, the most recent year for which the Centers for Disease Control has data

and they want to regulate firearms, what a bunch of loons........ guns dont kill people, criminals do!

You forgot to scroll down your page to get more granularity. Most of those were accidents and suicides. 11,000 of those were homicides.

for comparison there were 34,000 highway fatalities in the US.

It's easy to forget just how big the US is with the world's 3rd largest population, and to mentally exaggerate a statistic, say per 100,000 people.

Cheers

...and yet the countries holding the 1st and 2nd position have nearly 3-4x population of US but the fraction of gun fatalities and homicides. Why is that?

[Scott]

An off-topic post has been removed.

[CMNightRider]

Anyone who has more than one active brain cell in their head understands guns are nothing more than a tool. People choose how to use these tools. This constant blaming the NRA, instead of the people who use guns to harm others is silly. I haven't heard anyone say anything about the knives and chains that were used in this fight between the bikers. What's up with that?

The bikers that were involved in this incident should all be held accountable for their actions, not the NRA, nor the people who manufactured the chains or knives. The people who used firearms in this incident should do serious time in prison.

Once the dust settles and the bikers who used guns go to court, watch the liberal bleeding hearts come out of the woodwork and weep over what made these bikers choose a life of crime. They will whine and wring their hands about the lack of rehabilitation inside prison and instead of these people going to prison, they will want the bikers to be given a second chance. OMG!

Wild speculation predicated in a sub-culture of gun worship coupled with an ideological cynicism.

Very preachy first paragraph too.

Comprehensive legislation is needed to address the real issues of gun ownership and possession and no amount of blue smoke and mirrors can obscure or deflect from the fact and reality.

I'm surprised you keep using the term "gun worship." If one were to actually look for a person who worships guns, they would be as allusive to find as Bigfoot, or an alien from another planet. Obviously, America already has comprehensive gun legislation with over 20,000 gun laws on the books.

The anti-gun people are on the wrong side of history on gun-control. Even though liberals have polluted the gene pool, main stream Americans, still believe in God, country, and the right to bear arms. The anti-gun people can weep, whine, wring their little hands, and stomp their feet, but law abiding citizens in America, will enjoy the right to bear arms until the end of time.

[Publicus]

Comprehensive legislation is needed to address the real issues of gun ownership and possession and no amount of blue smoke and mirrors can obscure or deflect from the fact and reality.

LOL. Did your mommy forget to tuck you in last night?

The "legislation to control the real issues of gun ownership and possession" have been in place for a long time. The problem is that criminals by definition pay no attention to legislation.

Do you somehow believe that what took place here with these gangs was legal and should be outlawed, LOL? YOU go tell them there's legislation forbidding what they do. Better yet, next time stand between all of them and tell them that 555.

It was already illegal and there were already a whole bunch of police there to try to enforce the law and it still went down. The real answer is to lock these criminals up forever.

Cheers

LOL. Did your mommy

That's not a good reference and it btw comes only from the far right.

[chuckd]

Nine dead bikers, 170 or so in jail on charges of organized crime and zero citizens or police harmed.

I'd say the authorities in WACO and the DPS did a bang-up job of policing the area.

The restaurant has now been stripped of their franchise rights. It is no more.

PS: Waco is the home of the Texas Ranger Museum. I expect the DPS contingent consisted of some Rangers...and they are not to be messed with, biker or not.

[metisdead]

Posts containing intentional aberrant misspelling of Waco have been removed. Posting in this manner is basically trolling:

9) You will not post inflammatory messages on the forum, or attempt to disrupt discussions to upset its participants, or trolling. Trolling can be defined as the act of purposefully antagonizing other people on the internet by posting controversial, inflammatory, irrelevant or off-topic messages with the primary intent of provoking other users into an emotional response or to generally disrupt normal on-topic discussion.

[Johpa]

More perspective: There will always be tunneled vision propagandists on TVF to warp one violent happening where guns were used into some silly connection with the NRA. It is an agenda of leftists to warp - twist events in some way to blacken traditional America.

Perhaps your imagined "traditional America" disappeared generations ago as a consequence of the inevitable change of the human condition. I mean really, there have not been large frontier regions in the United States where everyone had to protect themselves with a firearm from outlaws and "savages" for over a century.

The anti-gun people are on the wrong side of history on gun-control. Even though liberals have polluted the gene pool, main stream Americans, still believe in God, country, and the right to bear arms. The anti-gun people can weep, whine, wring their little hands, and stomp their feet, but law abiding citizens in America, will enjoy the right to bear arms until the end of time.

"polluted the gene pool"???? Are you kidding me?!? Sorry to disappoint, but mainstream Americans in today's America tend to be self-avowed atheists (about 30% now) and tend to prefer tighter regulations on gun ownership. And sorry that at this rather late stage of life I can not pollute the gene pool close to your door as prolifically as before.

The pro-gun NRA people can weep, whine, wring their little hands about the changes that have occurred in the United States since their grand-pappy's days and moan that they will never again have the majority needed to elect one of their own in a national election. T'is they who are on the wrong side of history. But that must make them feel at home in Thailand where the ruling elite is also on the wrong side of history.

[MaxYakov]

A little bit off topic, but somewhat related, and with a Thai flavor...

Kudos to Australia.

http://www.9news.com.au/national/2015/05/19/04/45/bandido-chief-stranded-in-thailand-after-australia-refuses-to-renew-visa

Was excessive body art on the Oz gripe list? Well, at least they like them in Thailand!

[JDGRUEN]

@Johpa #100 Perhaps your imagined "traditional America" disappeared generations ago as a consequence of the inevitable change of the human condition. I mean really, there have not been large frontier regions in the United States where everyone had to protect themselves with a firearm from outlaws and "savages" for over a century.

If you will do some reading about the Founding Fathers - their writings before and after the signing of the Declaration of Independence and the penning of the Constitution and Bill of Rights, you will find that the Bearing of Arms was not just for the pioneer American to hunt game or for home protection... The prime reason was for defending the peoples' freedom - even against a government that should become totalitarian and move to take the Freedoms away from the people. Thus the reason that gun sales have skyrocketed in the last - six and one half years... and the reason Americans will never - ever give up their guns. Sporting use and home defense use pale in comparison as to why in 2015 Americans 'cling to their guns' - to paraphrase Obama...

Those who scoff at this idea are detached from the reality of the situation. Tunnel vision does that.

[Johpa]

If you will do some reading about the Founding Fathers - their writings before and after the signing of the Declaration of Independence and the penning of the Constitution and Bill of Rights, you will find that the Bearing of Arms was not just for the pioneer American to hunt game or for home protection... The prime reason was for defending the peoples' freedom - even against a government that should become totalitarian and move to take the Freedoms away from the people. Thus the reason that gun sales have skyrocketed in the last - six and one half years... and the reason Americans will never -

Indeed, but that was within the context of a new nation that was dependent upon a people's militia for defense within an age of totalitarian governments dominated by European totalitarian monarchies. That is why the need for the standing militia is placed prominently, and there is nothing more prominent than opening words, within the second amendment. The founding fathers, who were mostly Deists and not Christians, could not imagine automatic weapons in the hands of anyone whatsoever. And if you think that the US has moved towards totalitarianism then you are delusional. Go visit Burma to see what totalitarianism looks like and to see how completely removed the US is from a totalitarian state. You are better to concern yourself with the movement of the US towards corporate control, as the real aim of the ire of the founders was the power of the British East Indian Company and not court of King George.

Again, I was in a uniform once and carried a firearm and I am not against gun ownership per se, just in favor of rational regulations regarding such ownership such as a ban on the private ownership of modern military grade assault rifles.

[NeverSure]

You forgot to scroll down your page to get more granularity. Most of those were accidents and suicides. 11,000 of those were homicides.

for comparison there were 34,000 highway fatalities in the US.

It's easy to forget just how big the US is with the world's 3rd largest population, and to mentally exaggerate a statistic, say per 100,000 people.

Cheers

...and yet the countries holding the 1st and 2nd position have nearly 3-4x population of US but the fraction of gun fatalities and homicides. Why is that?

Do you want to live in China or India where people are lacking in freedoms and are dirt poor? You don't understand how the freedoms and personal initiatives in the US have made the country different. You don't understand self reliance and independent thinking.

I believe that if you were given the choice to be born in India or the US you'd choose the US. I know you would if you had actually tried both alternatives.

When you understand why and how the US kicked out the King of England and his occupying, colonizing redcoat army and built a country based on individual power and initiative you'll start to get it. In the meantime if you happen to be from the UK your government over which you have no power has sold the store in so many ways while you weren't paying attention.

That won't happen in the US. I have 100 million very close friends who are armed and who say it won't happen.

[sgtsabai]

I knew this would devolve into an anti-gun "debate". From my point of view, you can't "debate" with anti-gunners, most are afraid to even look at a firearm, let alone touch one, Buddha forbid...lol. Let me say something to really get the anti-gun crowd panties wedged tight to start with. Those guys couldn't hit the red side of a green barn. All those people and only a few dead, how embarrassing. Back to school kids, if you carry learn to shoot. I was NRA for many years, not now, not for many years, I don't like how the organization has changed. You anti-gunners would be taken aback at the fact that my AK-47, M14 (CMP-upgraded to Nat. Match standards), 2 M-1's, M-1 carbine, .308 BSA customized, 300 Win. Mag, Mod. 700 Remington (very "customized"), SKS (brought from Vietnam) also bedded, 2 Mod. 870 Remington 12 gauge plus my dads old Stevens 12 gauge single, Colt Gov't Mod. 1911A1 .45 (custom), Taraus .45, S&W Mod. 586 .357, various .22's, and others, reloading equipment and 1,000's of rounds of ammo was considered small potatoes. I started practicing with my dad's old S&W 32-20 well before going to 9th grade and I'm still damn good. Killed many a critter with Savage Mod. 24 .22/410 over-under. Feed a family of 4 with game I killed. Guns are tools, people are idiots. The right wing does not own the right to own guns (no Obama isn't and never was coming to take your guns, Hillary might), many, many left wingers of which I am, do also and are good with them. My gut feeling is this all started when a couple of "bad-asses" decided to prove themselves. Who knows, maybe even a provocateur involved, I put nothing past the cops these days. For that matter, nothing in days gone bye. Yea, and I did 10 years as a NM law enforcement officer.

[Publicus]

Both illegal possession of a gun and engaging in organized gang activity are federal offenses which result in heavy penalties and serious federal prison time.

These guys simply don't obey laws and passing more laws won't stop them. Murder is also illegal of course as is attacking people with knives but it all happened. These guys are right over the border from Mexico and can get all of the guns they want just as they do narcotics to use and sell and no US law will stop them until they are stopped by law enforcement the hard way.

Some people just have to do everything the hard way. I'm just very happy that no bystanders were hit.

I'm just very happy that no bystanders were hit.

Everyone I know, or know of has that thought and view. Trouble is there are no bystanders in Texas.

The restaurant whether it continues to exist or not, advertised on its Facebook page a couple of daze before to specifically attract bikers and biker gangs, practically sending out an RSVP invite.

It is more than apparent the restaurant management et al considered the biker gangbangers an important component of their customer base. This as a business practice or design must necessarily be considered deviant indeed.

It can also be said other patrons who, while they fled for their lives, knew or should have known the armed biker gangbangers would be there on the day, that the biker gangbangers had been invited there previously, were regularly welcomed and hospitably hosted and served by the obviously wacko restaurant owners/managers/staff.

Twin Peaks Waco

May 13 at 3:12pm ·

Ladies and Gentlemen, start your engines! Join us tomorrow night for Bike Night and enjoy some beers, bites, and bikes at the hottest place in town!

Very few bystanders in Texas, if any.

So start your engines ladies and gentlemen of the biker-gangster world of hurt.

[Publicus]

As a previous post of mine to the thread points out....

The NRA members and allies take the approach that when you can't beat the other guy, attack him and then try to dismiss him.

Yet it remains true that people who have the facts pound on the facts while people who don't have the facts have to pound on the table.

NRA people and their allies have their own set of facts and they pound on the table a lot too.

[sgtsabai]

It is the Constitution, not the commander in chief, the Constitution I swore an oath to defend against all, foreign or domestic. I did my best, I'm here now. There are other restaurants etc. in the proximity, hence innocent bystanders. But yes, you are right about the right wing paranoia, it is the left that should practice a little paranoia. Most right wing "militia" couldn't fight their way out of a wet paper bag, much less the US military. On the other hand, the US doesn't seem to be doing a very good job of winning "wars" against a bunch of rag tag guys with not much more than IED's, RPG's and AK's. The bikers are bad guys, the cops are bad guys, the justice system is a bad guy, who the hell is left? I don't know, and probably never will know what kicked off the fight, had it been black people it would have been a riot with all the consequences if you get my drift. It doesn't point to, at this time, a "set up", unless it was a cop set up. Yes, I'm a paranoid left winger, oh but they were after me, oops. Not so paranoid after all.

[goreme]

You forgot to scroll down your page to get more granularity. Most of those were accidents and suicides. 11,000 of those were homicides.

for comparison there were 34,000 highway fatalities in the US.

It's easy to forget just how big the US is with the world's 3rd largest population, and to mentally exaggerate a statistic, say per 100,000 people.

Cheers

...and yet the countries holding the 1st and 2nd position have nearly 3-4x population of US but the fraction of gun fatalities and homicides. Why is that?

Do you want to live in China or India where people are lacking in freedoms and are dirt poor? You don't understand how the freedoms and personal initiatives in the US have made the country different. You don't understand self reliance and independent thinking.

I believe that if you were given the choice to be born in India or the US you'd choose the US. I know you would if you had actually tried both alternatives.

When you understand why and how the US kicked out the King of England and his occupying, colonizing redcoat army and built a country based on individual power and initiative you'll start to get it. In the meantime if you happen to be from the UK your government over which you have no power has sold the store in so many ways while you weren't paying attention.

That won't happen in the US. I have 100 million very close friends who are armed and who say it won't happen.

The saddest thing about the US is that a significant portion of the population holds such uneducated, narrow-minded views. Your presumption that the 2 most populated countries in the world are dirt poor is evidence of that.

The right-wing's constant parroting of freedom has resulted in the highest gun homicides rates of any developing country. What good is your freedom when children in the US have easy access to guns - often with fatal results.

[JemJem]

At least the bikers had taste for the location of the shoot out. Twin Peaks Restaurant is a chain mostly in Cracker Ville,USA.

http://www.twinpeaksrestaurant.com

Hmm.., looks like a poor man's version of Hooters

Talking about Twin Peaks and Hooters, look what I have found. It is a bit of old news but anyway here it is http://consumerist.com/2011/10/03/hooters-sues-twin-peaks-restaurant-in-breastacular-battle/

[Publicus]

@Johpa #100 Perhaps your imagined "traditional America" disappeared generations ago as a consequence of the inevitable change of the human condition. I mean really, there have not been large frontier regions in the United States where everyone had to protect themselves with a firearm from outlaws and "savages" for over a century.

If you will do some reading about the Founding Fathers - their writings before and after the signing of the Declaration of Independence and the penning of the Constitution and Bill of Rights, you will find that the Bearing of Arms was not just for the pioneer American to hunt game or for home protection... The prime reason was for defending the peoples' freedom - even against a government that should become totalitarian and move to take the Freedoms away from the people. Thus the reason that gun sales have skyrocketed in the last - six and one half years... and the reason Americans will never - ever give up their guns. Sporting use and home defense use pale in comparison as to why in 2015 Americans 'cling to their guns' - to paraphrase Obama...

Those who scoff at this idea are detached from the reality of the situation. Tunnel vision does that.

If you will do some reading about the Founding Fathers - their writings before and after the signing of the Declaration of Independence and the penning of the Constitution and Bill of Rights

The presumption of the statement is erroneous and condescending, not to mention eccentric. It sounds like something from a hunter-gun-gatherer US History teacher at a low information and knowledge high school who just might go knowingly to a local restaurant frequented by gangbanger bikers and love it. Worse, it could sound like a silly sophomore political science major prat at some dust swept prairie college no one has ever heard of or should know.

In other words, the flying right wing thinks and believes it only and exclusively has read the Founders of the Republic, their writings before and after the signing of the Declaration of Independence and the penning of the Constitution and the Bill of Rights. That, moreover, only the right could possibly have it right.

[JDGRUEN]

You forgot to scroll down your page to get more granularity. Most of those were accidents and suicides. 11,000 of those were homicides.

for comparison there were 34,000 highway fatalities in the US.

It's easy to forget just how big the US is with the world's 3rd largest population, and to mentally exaggerate a statistic, say per 100,000 people.

Cheers

...and yet the countries holding the 1st and 2nd position have nearly 3-4x population of US but the fraction of gun fatalities and homicides. Why is that?

Do you want to live in China or India where people are lacking in freedoms and are dirt poor? You don't understand how the freedoms and personal initiatives in the US have made the country different. You don't understand self reliance and independent thinking.

I believe that if you were given the choice to be born in India or the US you'd choose the US. I know you would if you had actually tried both alternatives.

When you understand why and how the US kicked out the King of England and his occupying, colonizing redcoat army and built a country based on individual power and initiative you'll start to get it. In the meantime if you happen to be from the UK your government over which you have no power has sold the store in so many ways while you weren't paying attention.

That won't happen in the US. I have 100 million very close friends who are armed and who say it won't happen.

The saddest thing about the US is that a significant portion of the population holds such uneducated, narrow-minded views. Your presumption that the 2 most populated countries in the world are dirt poor is evidence of that.

The right-wing's constant parroting of freedom has resulted in the highest gun homicides rates of any developing country. What good is your freedom when children in the US have easy access to guns - often with fatal results.

You have no understanding of what is going on in the United States. Because you only listen to one side and dismiss the other.

[Publicus]

The saddest thing about the US is that a significant portion of the population holds such uneducated, narrow-minded views. Your presumption that the 2 most populated countries in the world are dirt poor is evidence of that.

The right-wing's constant parroting of freedom has resulted in the highest gun homicides rates of any developing country. What good is your freedom when children in the US have easy access to guns - often with fatal results.

You have no understanding of what is going on in the United States. Because you only listen to one side and dismiss the other.

Obviously another note to the self.

[JDGRUEN]

If you will do some reading about the Founding Fathers - their writings before and after the signing of the Declaration of Independence and the penning of the Constitution and Bill of Rights, you will find that the Bearing of Arms was not just for the pioneer American to hunt game or for home protection... The prime reason was for defending the peoples' freedom - even against a government that should become totalitarian and move to take the Freedoms away from the people. Thus the reason that gun sales have skyrocketed in the last - six and one half years... and the reason Americans will never -

Indeed, but that was within the context of a new nation that was dependent upon a people's militia for defense within an age of totalitarian governments dominated by European totalitarian monarchies. That is why the need for the standing militia is placed prominently, and there is nothing more prominent than opening words, within the second amendment. The founding fathers, who were mostly Deists and not Christians, could not imagine automatic weapons in the hands of anyone whatsoever. And if you think that the US has moved towards totalitarianism then you are delusional. Go visit Burma to see what totalitarianism looks like and to see how completely removed the US is from a totalitarian state. You are better to concern yourself with the movement of the US towards corporate control, as the real aim of the ire of the founders was the power of the British East Indian Company and not court of King George.

Again, I was in a uniform once and carried a firearm and I am not against gun ownership per se, just in favor of rational regulations regarding such ownership such as a ban on the private ownership of modern military grade assault rifles.

The U.S. Constitution is still the Law of the Land in America. And your interpretation of what it means today does not matter. Your position was done away with a long time ago ... Check the SCOTUS decision on individual rights to posses a firearm ... There are no restrictions on what firearms or how many a Citizen can Bear - except for the issue of fully automatic weapons... It simply does not matter what you think the Constitution should evolved to in modern times. Americans have the right to keep guns for any reason. And tens of millions - perhaps as many as 100 million adult Americans believe my version and do not give a damn about yours. And you can't change any of it. It doesn't matter what you believe - it only matters what the rest who believe as I do.

Liberals and Leftist are more often pure control freaks who seek every day to tell other people how to live, what to eat, what light bulb to buy and a hundred other things. It seems to be in the genes.

[NeverSure]

Yet so few right wingers are realistic or in contact with their true environment. Does any rational and mentally balanced American think or believe he can withstand the armed forces of the United States?

Yes. On their own turf, the armies/militias of N. Korea, N. Vietnam, Iraq, Afghanistan, and others have repelled the US Military. You can't defeat a guerrilla army on its own soil. The US Military wouldn't start bombing cities and using nukes etc. as it did in WWII.

There are fewer than 2 million troops in the US military including reserves and many of them are loyal to the people before the government. That's probably most of them and so it is with law enforcement.

OTOH there are 100 million armed Americans. who are not in uniform but mixed among the general population.

Do you know about The Oath Keepers?

"Oath Keepers is a non-partisan association of current and formerly serving military, police, and first responders who pledge to fulfill the oath all military and police take to “defend the Constitution against all enemies, foreign and domestic.” That oath, mandated by Article VI of the Constitution itself, is to the Constitution, not to the politicians, and Oath Keepers declare that they will not obey unconstitutional orders, such as orders to disarm the American people."

Cheers

[JDGRUEN]

You forgot to scroll down your page to get more granularity. Most of those were accidents and suicides. 11,000 of those were homicides.

for comparison there were 34,000 highway fatalities in the US.

It's easy to forget just how big the US is with the world's 3rd largest population, and to mentally exaggerate a statistic, say per 100,000 people.

Cheers

...and yet the countries holding the 1st and 2nd position have nearly 3-4x population of US but the fraction of gun fatalities and homicides. Why is that?

Do you want to live in China or India where people are lacking in freedoms and are dirt poor? You don't understand how the freedoms and personal initiatives in the US have made the country different. You don't understand self reliance and independent thinking.

I believe that if you were given the choice to be born in India or the US you'd choose the US. I know you would if you had actually tried both alternatives.

When you understand why and how the US kicked out the King of England and his occupying, colonizing redcoat army and built a country based on individual power and initiative you'll start to get it. In the meantime if you happen to be from the UK your government over which you have no power has sold the store in so many ways while you weren't paying attention.

That won't happen in the US. I have 100 million very close friends who are armed and who say it won't happen.

The saddest thing about the US is that a significant portion of the population holds such uneducated, narrow-minded views. Your presumption that the 2 most populated countries in the world are dirt poor is evidence of that.

The right-wing's constant parroting of freedom has resulted in the highest gun homicides rates of any developing country. What good is your freedom when children in the US have easy access to guns - often with fatal results.

Huge portions of China and India are dirt poor. One's 'right's in India depend heavily on wealth and 'cast' still to this day. A person of a low cast has hardly any method to challenge injustice. There certainly are severe limitation on a citizens rights in China. We in America have the U.S. Constitution and Bill of Rights to protect us - except when a rogue president decides to chip away at the provisions of the Constitution such as making laws all by himself. Half the adult population is divided on this issue and you act like it does not exist. We - the other half believe Obama is a rogue president who at any given time would take our rights totally. He has made pronouncements on video that he believes that Americans should not have guns.

[seedy]

one off topic post removed

[sirineou]

Firearms killed 32,251 people in the United States in 2011, the most recent year for which the Centers for Disease Control has data

and they want to regulate firearms, what a bunch of loons........ guns dont kill people, criminals do!

You forgot to scroll down your page to get more granularity. Most of those were accidents and suicides. 11,000 of those were homicides.

for comparison there were 34,000 highway fatalities in the US.

It's easy to forget just how big the US is with the world's 3rd largest population, and to mentally exaggerate a statistic, say per 100,000 people.

Cheers

oh that makes it a lot better

[JDGRUEN]

Firearms killed 32,251 people in the United States in 2011, the most recent year for which the Centers for Disease Control has data

and they want to regulate firearms, what a bunch of loons........ guns dont kill people, criminals do!

You forgot to scroll down your page to get more granularity. Most of those were accidents and suicides. 11,000 of those were homicides.

for comparison there were 34,000 highway fatalities in the US.

It's easy to forget just how big the US is with the world's 3rd largest population, and to mentally exaggerate a statistic, say per 100,000 people.

Cheers

oh that makes it a lot better

Yes it is ...because it keeps you from skewing the statistic to make an exaggerated point.

[CMNightRider]

You forgot to scroll down your page to get more granularity. Most of those were accidents and suicides. 11,000 of those were homicides.

for comparison there were 34,000 highway fatalities in the US.

It's easy to forget just how big the US is with the world's 3rd largest population, and to mentally exaggerate a statistic, say per 100,000 people.

Cheers

...and yet the countries holding the 1st and 2nd position have nearly 3-4x population of US but the fraction of gun fatalities and homicides. Why is that?

Do you want to live in China or India where people are lacking in freedoms and are dirt poor? You don't understand how the freedoms and personal initiatives in the US have made the country different. You don't understand self reliance and independent thinking.

I believe that if you were given the choice to be born in India or the US you'd choose the US. I know you would if you had actually tried both alternatives.

When you understand why and how the US kicked out the King of England and his occupying, colonizing redcoat army and built a country based on individual power and initiative you'll start to get it. In the meantime if you happen to be from the UK your government over which you have no power has sold the store in so many ways while you weren't paying attention.

That won't happen in the US. I have 100 million very close friends who are armed and who say it won't happen.

The saddest thing about the US is that a significant portion of the population holds such uneducated, narrow-minded views. Your presumption that the 2 most populated countries in the world are dirt poor is evidence of that.

The right-wing's constant parroting of freedom has resulted in the highest gun homicides rates of any developing country. What good is your freedom when children in the US have easy access to guns - often with fatal results.

There is nothing sad about the U.S., unless you are referring to the liberalism cult that wants everyone to live in a nanny state.

If you are living in the America, and don't like it because of the right of law abiding citizens to own firearms, then maybe consider moving to a country that doesn't think their citizens are mature enough to own a firearm. Australia comes to mind. Australians can't even protect themselves in their own homes where home invasions are rampant.

If you are a foreigner who doesn't live in the U.S., then why on earth would gun ownership in America, even concern you?

There are a lot of wonderful places in the world to live and many where people are trying to escape. The bottom line despite the liberal leftist cult lead by Obama, America continues to be the greatest country in the world.

Texas law enforcement did a good job containing the outlaw biker shootout. Law enforcement has rounded up most of these idiots that were involved in this incident, and rest assure despite the bleeding heart liberals who think America's prison system is too harsh, will receive the full benefit of the criminal justice system.

The NRA, the chain and padlock manufactures, nor the knife manufactures, had anything to do with this incident, as a couple of immature posters have suggested.

Children in the U.S. do not have easy access to guns as you suggested, unless they happen to have irresponsible parents or care takers.