Ousted Thai PM Yingluck proclaims innocence as criminal trial starts

[JAG]

Sorry to spoil your little hatefest chaps, but her degree is in "Public Administration", not "English".

I wouldn't have bothered to mention it, but I know how you just love to pore over the least significant details when it comes to working up a tirade against her!

Edited May 19, 2015 by JAG

[ThaiUser]

Yingluck herself has said the rice scheme "lifted the quality of life for rice farmers"

Tell that to the families of farmers who went bankrupt and killed themselves months after you failed to deliver payment as promised. Most of them only got paid after you were thrown out of office.

Out of fairness you should also mentioned who stopped the payments to the farmers via an appeal to the courts when Yingluck was still PM.

Besides illegally borrowing money, what other criminal acts should she have been allowed while out of office? How long does the "Get Out of Jail Free" card that comes with being elected last?

I only asked a question based on facts however, I could have extended my comment by wondering why the pledges given by the Yingluck government and the attempt to honour those by paying the rice farmers were regarded as illegal.

Would the same not apply after the coup and if I remember correctly, no efforts were left out to get the farmers paid, as laid out in the scheme implemented under the Yingluck government?

[ThaiUser]

Yingluck herself has said the rice scheme "lifted the quality of life for rice farmers"

Tell that to the families of farmers who went bankrupt and killed themselves months after you failed to deliver payment as promised. Most of them only got paid after you were thrown out of office.

Out of fairness you should also mentioned who stopped the payments to the farmers via an appeal to the courts when Yingluck was still PM.

Suggest you check the facts of the whole situation and repost.

What facts would that be and what constitutes for you the whole situation? When living abroad I had a better view of the whole situation and returning to Thailand that view became somewhat blurred. The reason for that is the media and how they report on politics and in todays situation as you might know as well there is not much scope diverting from the official opinion due to the laws that have been implemented.

Edited May 19, 2015 by ThaiUser

[scorecard]

AFP,Reuters or AP do the right job:to give comments and opinions of all sides!

You believe AFP provides balanced reports with comments & opinions from all sides.

Suggest you check your comprehension and analysis skills.

Well after reading and seeing reports from many of the leading western news outlets they are all reporting the same as AFP. Who should I believe, the world's top news organisations or some idiot yellow keyboard warriors on TVF?

Well here's one thought.

A well know international news agency has for several years been reporting regularly on a person living abroad. In almost every one of their reports there are undeniable factual errors.

You take it from there.

By the way, strong insulting language will impress nobody.

[halloween]

Yingluck herself has said the rice scheme "lifted the quality of life for rice farmers"

Tell that to the families of farmers who went bankrupt and killed themselves months after you failed to deliver payment as promised. Most of them only got paid after you were thrown out of office.

Out of fairness you should also mentioned who stopped the payments to the farmers via an appeal to the courts when Yingluck was still PM.

Besides illegally borrowing money, what other criminal acts should she have been allowed while out of office? How long does the "Get Out of Jail Free" card that comes with being elected last?

I only asked a question based on facts however, I could have extended my comment by wondering why the pledges given by the Yingluck government and the attempt to honour those by paying the rice farmers were regarded as illegal.

Would the same not apply after the coup and if I remember correctly, no efforts were left out to get the farmers paid, as laid out in the scheme implemented under the Yingluck government?

You, and Milt, seem to be ignorant of the law. A caretaker government can't incur debts for the next government, and the money needed to be borrowed. IF she had budgeted the funds before dissolving government it would have been a different story, but it was becoming more and more obvious that the rice scam was a financial disaster and funds were tight. Allowing them to borrow illegally would rightly be seen as electioneering with public funds.

The new government can take care of citizens in difficulty by borrowing or re-directing funds

[MILT]

....what was regarded as illegal was how and from where the funds were to be found that they were going to pay the farmers with, not about the YLS would or will pay the farmers...if memory serves the farmers had to wait, and wait and wait, a few killed themselves and then wait, and wait then some

were paid and then the long await highly anticipated coup...In a nut shell basically

[Lupatria]

It is a little prepubescent to make fun of the Asian difficulty with English at times.

It does not matter if you are Japanese,Mexican or Taiwanese. Someone who rightfully holds a Masters Degree in English should do better.

Thank you three times.

Let me see if I understand you.

You are saying that walking through a few thousand people, with hundreds of cameras rolling, on her way to trial .. you have a problem with her English?

I have heard native English speakers with far lower vocabularies and general comprehension skills.

If there is a problem sir, I believe it resides within you.

May I ask what specifically is your complaint?

(You know this is an exercise in futility .. yes? .. that woman could run into a burning building and save three babies and a puppy, and you would make fun of the soot on her nose.)

I am not a native English speaker as well. However your comment:

“I have heard native English speakers with far lower vocabularies and general comprehension skills.”

is hopefully not the standard you set for a master’s degree in your mother tongue.

Your darling Ex PM gave many examples of her insufficient knowledge of the English language so far. However she probably decorates the wall of her office with a framed master degree certificate. The problem is, she is doing this in a country that permanently ranks the lowest in English proficiency among the SEA nations.

However:

[gemguy]

The manifest and uninformed ( read ignorant ) hatred displayed on here is both appalling and pathetic.

Thaivisa at it's best.

"She is not accused of personal corruption but of failing to prevent alleged graft within the programme..."

Alleged to be alleged and the nutters on here want a "fixed " conviction ( it can hardly be impartial) that will enrage half the electorate.

You people should be careful what you wish for.

I have to agree.

I despise the Yellow shirts more than the Red shirts while a guilty verdict with leniency is one thing while a guilty verdict with a prison sentence may just be the match that lights the rage within the mass of citizens that may very well more than protest this vindictive move.

Throwing the book at her is not going to stop the endemic corruption and wide spread malfeasance practiced by the politicians and the rich and powerful and or the police and military and anyone who is in a position to do so or realizes an opportunity to do so.

What it will do is thwart the efforts of the opposition to the existing Status Quo....but it will not stop the opposition from politically challenging the Status Quo while the opposition gains political ground in some way and or finding various means to do so.

You can only surmise when a non Yellow Shirt political party gains power ( as in: legitimately voted into power???? ) I guess they will feel more than justified when they go about vindictively suppressing the Yellow Shirt opposition and more or less copy the ways and means the military is presently maneuvering about to suppress the opposition..... as we are witnessing ...for the record.

A sort of vicious cycle that will never end.

Cheers

Edited May 19, 2015 by gemguy

[torpedo1970]

"She is not accused of personal corruption but of failing to prevent alleged graft within the programme...

Is there any PM in Thailand's history that governed over a graft free government? If not, couldn't they all be convicted of negligence, including you know who?

Those in Glass houses should not throw stones.....

Even the General PM could actually be facing this

if this farce of a case goes on for too long....

[ThaiUser]

You, and Milt, seem to be ignorant of the law. A caretaker government can't incur debts for the next government, and the money needed to be borrowed. IF she had budgeted the funds before dissolving government it would have been a different story, but it was becoming more and more obvious that the rice scam was a financial disaster and funds were tight. Allowing them to borrow illegally would rightly be seen as electioneering with public funds.

The new government can take care of citizens in difficulty by borrowing or re-directing funds

I have a brother in law that is a solicitor in Europe and when lecturing me on the law he never forgets to point out to me who and when the constitution and law in Thailand was violated in the eyes of European legal people.

[Yann55]

Again and again, one can't help but notice how shockingly biased the AFP representative in BKK is. AFP is a Press Agency, which means they are supposed to gather facts and forward them to journalists who then choose to either present the facts as such to their readers or come up with editorial opinions. In the case of AFP Bangkok, however, the 'facts' and opinions collected are systematically chosen on one side only, to a point where it becomes frankly ridiculous and one has to wonder why ? Perhaps the answer is to be found on some bank account or other ?

Edited May 19, 2015 by Yann55

[halloween]

I have to agree.

I despise the Yellow shirts more than the Red shirts while a guilty verdict with leniency is one thing while a guilty verdict with a prison sentence may just be the match that lights the rage within the mass of citizens that may very well more than protest this vindictive move.

Throwing the book at her is not going to stop the endemic corruption and wide spread malfeasance practiced by the politicians and the rich and powerful and or the police and military and anyone who is in a position to do so or realizes an opportunity to do so.

What it will do is thwart the efforts of the opposition to the existing Status Quo....but it will not stop the opposition from politically challenging the Status Quo from gaining political ground in some way and finding other means to do so.

You can only surmise when a non Yellow Shirt political party gains power I guess they will feel justified when they go about vindictively suppressing the Yellow Shirt opposition and more or less copy the way the military is presently maneuvering about to suppress the opposition at present.

A sort of vicious cycle that will never end.

Cheers

What is vindictive about asking the ex-PM where B700 billion went to? Even the NE red supporters would like that answered because they know THEY didn't get it.

And what did the nation get for that huge sum? A corrupt and incompetent government more interested in the boss than them isn't what they want to hear.

[Trouble]

Seems that no story about this woman passes without pages of same tired comments. She showed up so let the drama play out.

[dukebowling]

Here is an interesting article on rice smuggling into Thailand

http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/07/14/us-thailand-rice-insight-idUSBRE96D0E520130714

And YL and PTP Government did nothing to stop it

Maybe because TS has family and businesses in Cambodia

Either way YL guilty of negligence

Where is the negligence? Looks like the tried to stop it, but Cambodia turned a blind eye.

The real question is who is responsible for controlling the borders?

The Thai Border Patrol Police - part of the Royal Thai Police with many commanders who were former army officers. How was Yingluck going to influence them?

[Smurkster]

yup she's corrupt. but the guys in charge? just as corrupt. you think the ruling elite actually give a s*** about stamping corruption. Nope, they just get mad when other corrupt individuals threaten their ability to be corrupt themselves...

[Guest]

It is a little prepubescent to make fun of the Asian difficulty with English at times.

It does not matter if you are Japanese,Mexican or Taiwanese. Someone who rightfully holds a Masters Degree in English should do better.

Thank you three times.

Let me see if I understand you.

You are saying that walking through a few thousand people, with hundreds of cameras rolling, on her way to trial .. you have a problem with her English?

I have heard native English speakers with far lower vocabularies and general comprehension skills.

If there is a problem sir, I believe it resides within you.

May I ask what specifically is your complaint?

(You know this is an exercise in futility .. yes? .. that woman could run into a burning building and save three babies and a puppy, and you would make fun of the soot on her nose.)

I am not a native English speaker as well. However your comment:

“I have heard native English speakers with far lower vocabularies and general comprehension skills.”

is hopefully not the standard you set for a master’s degree in your mother tongue.

Your darling Ex PM gave many examples of her insufficient knowledge of the English language so far. However she probably decorates the wall of her office with a framed master degree certificate. The problem is, she is doing this in a country that permanently ranks the lowest in English proficiency among the SEA nations.

However:

Not at all darling .. as long as my FACTS do not bother you!

"Born in Chiang Mai Province into a wealthy family of Hakka Chinese descent,[4][5] Yingluck Shinawatra earned a bachelor's degree from Chiang Mai University and a master's degree from Kentucky State University, both in public administration." (Wikipedia)

"Yingluck Shinawatra was born on June 21^st in 1967. Her nickname is Pu. Yingluck is the youngest child of Lert and Yindee who have eight other children. Yingluck grew up in Chiang Mai and at the lower secondary level attended the Regina Coeli College, a private girl’s school, she went on to attend the Yupparaj College, a co-ed facility at the upper secondary level. She graduated with a BA degree from the Faculty of Political Science and Public Administration Chaing Mai University with a BA Degree and in 1988 she received a MPA degree from Kentucky State University in 1991." (Samui Times)

Here .. to save you the burden of finding out what an MPA is :

The Master of Public Administration (M.P.Adm., M.P.A., or MPA) is a professional post-graduate degree in public administration which is the public sector's offering equivalent to the private sector's Master of Business Administration.

Really, you "experts" and "boy geniuses" really do need to learn to get the basic facts straight.

If you do not know this stuff before you get all up in your glorious opinions .. sort of makes me wonder what else you (do not) know !!

Now drink your milk and get to bed, tomorrow is another long day of Thai Bashing .. without one clue what you are talking about.

[halloween]

You, and Milt, seem to be ignorant of the law. A caretaker government can't incur debts for the next government, and the money needed to be borrowed. IF she had budgeted the funds before dissolving government it would have been a different story, but it was becoming more and more obvious that the rice scam was a financial disaster and funds were tight. Allowing them to borrow illegally would rightly be seen as electioneering with public funds.

The new government can take care of citizens in difficulty by borrowing or re-directing funds

I have a brother in law that is a solicitor in Europe and when lecturing me on the law he never forgets to point out to me who and when the constitution and law in Thailand was violated in the eyes of European legal people.

You want me to spell out for you why it was illegal for a caretaker government to borrow money? Can I point out that that was not my decision, but that of the court who ruled on the case. As for your BIL........

[ThaiUser]

You, and Milt, seem to be ignorant of the law. A caretaker government can't incur debts for the next government, and the money needed to be borrowed. IF she had budgeted the funds before dissolving government it would have been a different story, but it was becoming more and more obvious that the rice scam was a financial disaster and funds were tight. Allowing them to borrow illegally would rightly be seen as electioneering with public funds.

The new government can take care of citizens in difficulty by borrowing or re-directing funds

I have a brother in law that is a solicitor in Europe and when lecturing me on the law he never forgets to point out to me who and when the constitution and law in Thailand was violated in the eyes of European legal people.

You want me to spell out for you why it was illegal for a caretaker government to borrow money? Can I point out that that was not my decision, but that of the court who ruled on the case. As for your BIL........

Having explained to me that now could you be so kind to tell me what government after the caretaker government paid the farmers? Did we actually have a government at that time?

[rametindallas]

Of course she is innocent, her brother was the mastermind behind the scam

Charles Manson was behind the Tate-LoBianca Murders but that didn't stop the courts from convicting those who carried out the murders on Manson's orders. I don't think 'innocent' means what you think it means. If I don't go inside to rob the bank but I drive the getaway car, am I innocent of bank robbery? When Abhisit was PM, it was said that Abhisit was not corrupt but that he 'rowed the boat for the bandits'. Is/was Abhisit innocent?

[halloween]

You, and Milt, seem to be ignorant of the law. A caretaker government can't incur debts for the next government, and the money needed to be borrowed. IF she had budgeted the funds before dissolving government it would have been a different story, but it was becoming more and more obvious that the rice scam was a financial disaster and funds were tight. Allowing them to borrow illegally would rightly be seen as electioneering with public funds.

The new government can take care of citizens in difficulty by borrowing or re-directing funds

I have a brother in law that is a solicitor in Europe and when lecturing me on the law he never forgets to point out to me who and when the constitution and law in Thailand was violated in the eyes of European legal people.

You want me to spell out for you why it was illegal for a caretaker government to borrow money? Can I point out that that was not my decision, but that of the court who ruled on the case. As for your BIL........

Having explained to me that now could you be so kind to tell me what government after the caretaker government paid the farmers? Did we actually have a government at that time?

After some delay and a coup, there was a military government. One of their first priorities was meeting the debts of the previous government. Please note that some of those debts were overdue well before the Yingluk government resigned because the rice scam was collapsing.

[MiKT]

Yingluck herself has said the rice scheme "lifted the quality of life for rice farmers"

Tell that to the families of farmers who went bankrupt and killed themselves months after you failed to deliver payment as promised. Most of them only got paid after you were thrown out of office.

Oh pleeeease, the payments were deliberately delayed by the yellow mob under Suthep and YNH. You know that, so why post such blatant lies and shit stirring rubbish? Aren't you happy with the "corruption free" 55555555555555555 government (if dictatorship can be called government) you have landed with now?

Why don't you tell that to the families of farmers who died because of the wickedly deliberate actions of the yellow mob.

[MiKT]

I just took note of the angry concerned followers of Yingluck, outside the courthouse were a dozen or so PTP members and about 50----YES 50 followers ??

So outraged is the nation that she is having to attend ???? WOW about 60 in total out of a massive number some TVF members say are with her ???

Maybe I could summon up more than that if I had to attend. Who is kidding who about her massive following, this hearing has been known about long enough for her to get more than ONE bus load. amazing.

It took great courage for anyone to be there under the current jackboot regime, Hats off them I say.

[rametindallas]

AFP,Reuters or AP do the right job:to give comments and opinions of all sides!

Again AFP comes up with a way less than balanced article.

"....I believe a hawkish faction in the old powers... wants to punish the Shinawatras as much as they can," Puangthong Pawakapan, a Thai politics expert at Chulalongkorn University, told AFP."

Take a look at the professor's profile - AFP sure picks it's commentators.

You believe AFP provides balanced reports with comments & opinions from all sides.

Suggest you check your comprehension and analysis skills.

Well after reading and seeing reports from many of the leading western news outlets they are all reporting the same as AFP. Who should I believe, the world's top news organisations or some idiot yellow keyboard warriors on TVF?

some idiot yellow keyboard warriors on TVF?

The ease with which you use invectives for those you disagree with says much of your character.

[than]

Here is an interesting article on rice smuggling into Thailand

http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/07/14/us-thailand-rice-insight-idUSBRE96D0E520130714

And YL and PTP Government did nothing to stop it

Maybe because TS has family and businesses in Cambodia

Either way YL guilty of negligence

Where is the negligence? Looks like the tried to stop it, but Cambodia turned a blind eye.

The real question is who is responsible for controlling the borders?

The Thai Border Patrol Police - part of the Royal Thai Police with many commanders who were former army officers. How was Yingluck going to influence them?

Where you see commander of RTP from Thai Army..... Remember Taksin was a Police officer with rank of colonel.......many of his friend are corrupt policemen and some of them sleep in "Bangkok Hilton" now....

[wow64]

This sideshow just shows how much support she has.

The current government is so scared of her they are trying their best to string her up.

If guilty every PM Thailand has ever had should be sent to jail.

[ThaiUser]

You, and Milt, seem to be ignorant of the law. A caretaker government can't incur debts for the next government, and the money needed to be borrowed. IF she had budgeted the funds before dissolving government it would have been a different story, but it was becoming more and more obvious that the rice scam was a financial disaster and funds were tight. Allowing them to borrow illegally would rightly be seen as electioneering with public funds.

The new government can take care of citizens in difficulty by borrowing or re-directing funds

I have a brother in law that is a solicitor in Europe and when lecturing me on the law he never forgets to point out to me who and when the constitution and law in Thailand was violated in the eyes of European legal people.

You want me to spell out for you why it was illegal for a caretaker government to borrow money? Can I point out that that was not my decision, but that of the court who ruled on the case. As for your BIL........

Having explained to me that now could you be so kind to tell me what government after the caretaker government paid the farmers? Did we actually have a government at that time?

After some delay and a coup, there was a military government. One of their first priorities was meeting the debts of the previous government. Please note that some of those debts were overdue well before the Yingluk government resigned because the rice scam was collapsing.

Thanks that cleared it up. I could not understand that what separates an interim government from a Military Government but I understand now. An interim government is bound by laws and courts that overlook that the laws are not violated. On the other hand a Military Government can make its own laws the way they go along without oversight.

If you might think now that my political colour is red you are wrong; for that I have lived too long abroad and seen how democracies work there. I am not in favour of polarisation in politics that only leave people two choices; and big parties are as bad as big business and in time they get corrupted. I have seen from abroad PT and the Democrats go that way.

In that respect I have to agree with the current PM that our political system needs to be redefined but the people that are charged with the process to oversee it have to be seen not to favour one side of the political spectrum. At this moment I have not made up my mind if that in Thailand is the case but it appears that only the sins of the past committed by one party are followed up and being punished. I hope that the same approach is used when it comes to the violations of laws the other side has committed. If that happens I will believe that we might have a chance to establish a democracy that will prevail.

[pomchop]

She is not accused of personal corruption but of failing to prevent alleged graft within the programme

If politicians around the world are all convicted of failing to prevent graft they better build a lot more prisons...a LOT more.

[Srikcir]

Yingluck herself has said the rice scheme "lifted the quality of life for rice farmers"

Tell that to the families of farmers who went bankrupt and killed themselves months after you failed to deliver payment as promised. Most of them only got paid after you were thrown out of office.

You understand that they got paid only because the Junta abolished the constitution that prevented payment from being made?

[Baerboxer]

Yingluck herself has said the rice scheme "lifted the quality of life for rice farmers"

Tell that to the families of farmers who went bankrupt and killed themselves months after you failed to deliver payment as promised. Most of them only got paid after you were thrown out of office.

Out of fairness you should also mentioned who stopped the payments to the farmers via an appeal to the courts when Yingluck was still PM.

Out of fairness you should also mention that Yingluck's government stopped paying farmers months before protests. Yingluck dissolved parliament and then found out caretaker governments can't borrow money. She also vowed to pay them without a clue where the money would come from.

Still, knowing the law, abiding by it and respecting it never been a Shiniwatra strong point.

[Baerboxer]

Yingluck herself has said the rice scheme "lifted the quality of life for rice farmers"

Tell that to the families of farmers who went bankrupt and killed themselves months after you failed to deliver payment as promised. Most of them only got paid after you were thrown out of office.

You understand that they got paid only because the Junta abolished the constitution that prevented payment from being made?

Why were payments not made months before the Amnesty bill fiasco sparked mass protests?

Why didn't she ensure provisions and necessary borrowings were made prior to dissolving parliament?

Why did members of her brother's cabinet insist there was enough money to pay the farmers and then didn't?

Why did she vow the farmers would be paid "next week" when she knew there was no money?

Edited May 19, 2015 by Baerboxer