Immigration Confirms The End Of Border Runs From Oct 1, 2006

[Martin]

Trying to look a bit deeper, have just posted this on the ".....90 days and you're out" thread:

""Talk to us in 50 years after you have invested in upgrading your education system ..."

The chance would be a fine thing, 'Thaiquila', as I am 71 years old now!!!

But there is a reasonable scenario that says that Thailand will be doing very well in 2057 (provided it doesn't let itself be swamped by incomers), but Northern Europe will be doing very badly.

Thailand will still be able to grow enough to feed all its people and have enough to export in exchange for whatever else it needs to house them comfortably. But the people in Northern Europe will be very cold in winter , when cheap gas and oil are no longer available.

Look at the UK. What will they be able to do to earn foreign credit that others, in warmer parts of the world, won't be able to do cheaper?

Those who live in cold climes desperately need fusion to be made to work, so they can have cheap energy to give them cheap electricity for keeping warm, but it doesn't look likely that the problems of harnessing fusion are going to yield.

Thaksin looks a lot at the future, and he is a business planner.

He may be seeing that it is time for Thailand to go 'upmarket' in what foreigners it caters for.

So, first improve the 'brand image' by being seen to have no truck with the 'undesirable'.

And what better way to do that than this change in the rules about giving 'permission to stay'?"

Thaksin is Chinese-Thai, and seems to have the Chinese ways of thinking allied to quite some knowledge of Thai ways of thinking. Maybe that is what is at work here.

"Thaksin: The business of politics in Thailand" is worth reading to get insight into Thaksin.

He is 'the goose that lays the golden egg', but a greedy one, as all the 'chattering ducks' have been agitating about this year.

[Maigo6]

All foreigners who hope to reside in Thailand should play it very, very straight, so they continue to be welcome.

It is unwise to get anything 'dodgy' on your record---from bribing immigration officials to setting up bogus companies to own land.

The great mistake made by Westerners is to think Thais are stupid. They are every bit as bright as Westerners, but just have more tolerance and less arrogance. However, their tolerance has its limits.

Well said.

Many Farangs have the attitude that Thai people should be honoured and eternally grateful that so many Farangs want to stay in Thailand legally or otherwise.

I see in Western countries nothing but complaints about the influx of Immigrants into the west, yet Farangs feel they should be welcomed as some kind of higher being when they attempt to live in another country, such as Thailand.

Farangs just have to face the fact that they are no more special in Thailand than an Albanian refugee is in UK. Less so in fact.

[PeaceBlondie]

Are we suggesting that these latest moves by the caretaker and Thaksin real governments, are part of a long range, well planned, plan to plan something Thai? I'm sorry. Thais may have intelligence and humility and wisdom and some may even be educated (at Western universities), but I don't see the Thai government officials as PLANNERS. Nope. Thai government schools are infamous for not even telling their own teachers if there will be school tomorrow. If there is an academic calendar, it's in the director's head, not on paper. Deputy ministers at the same ministry contradict one another, and themselves, within 24 hours. Did they plan the airport?

What - are the official announcements of politicians believed to be a plan to actually be executed, or plans to deceive a public that won't be fooled again? Nah, I don't think that most Thais plan ahead. They play checkers, not chess.

So, getting back on topic, is xenophobia against farang, based on visa regulations, planned? Didn't the immigration officials change their minds after they'd announced the plans, such as when the three stamps become effective, before 1 October or starting 1 October? Do we know if there's any specific plan for the MFA to issue new directives to the embassies? Will they follow today's plan?

[Martin]

"but I don't see the Thai government officials as PLANNERS. Nope."

I think 'PeaceBlondie' is right to say that, in Thai culture, there is little propensity to plan ahead.

However, the Chinese-merchant culture is different. They bring their children up with the idea of planning ahead.

And one of the fascinations (or frustrations) of Thailand is that one is never sure which culture is going to rule in the next five minutes!

The Thai-Chinese (or is it Chinese-Thai?) Prime Minister, ThaksinShinawatra, seems to be a good example; answering one question in a way that shows he is thinking far ahead, and 'shooting from the hip' at the next one (and getting told off by the missus when he gets home!).

Ahh, the rich tapestry of Thailand life. Ain't we lucky to be living somewhere that's not cold and boring!

[phuketrichard]

I doubt that they realize the situation fully.

Did everyone read the letter in post bag yesterday in the bkk post?

Raised the question of what about the rich people that come in for a few days every month that own homes/yachts/golf memebrships.

PLUS, there are loads of people that come to Thailand from HK. Singapore and MALAYSIA every week! ( accounts for all of the south's tourism). Will they all be told NOPE, u have had 3 entires, you can't come in for 90 days.

It will totally kill tourism in the south, ( if there is any left after the recent bombing)

All I know for certain is come Oct 1st we will know...

Edited September 19, 2006 by phuketrichard

[Hermano Lobo]

I doubt that they realize the situation fully.

Did everyone read the letter in post bag yesterday in the bkk post?

Raised the question of what about the rich people that come in for a few days every month that own homes/yachts/golf memebrships.

PLUS, there are loads of people that come to Thailand from HK. Singapore and MALAYSIA every week! ( accounts for all of the south's tourism). Will they all be told NOPE, u have had 3 entires, you can't come in for 90 days.

It will totally kill tourism in the south, ( if there is any left after the recent bombing)

All I know for certain is come Oct 1st we will know...

At the risk of getting my head bitten off I may suggest that some of you have had a relationship with a Thai girl? You may have noted the mentality that if you gave them £1 Million(or even 50p) on Sunday, by Tuesday they will have spent the lot ! They will then spend some time trying to work out why they don't have any money ? Then come back to you and say,"Haff no Munnee!"

This is because they have no concept of the future. i.e. If I spend all my money now I can't work out why there is no money tomorrow?

This is not only true of Thai girls but Thais right across the board.

They live for the day.

Planning ? It's almost as bad as where I work in the UK !

" In Germany we like to plan for the future and be sure of where we are going, while I notice you in the UK seem to bumble from one mistake to the next!"

Helmut Scmidt - West German Chancellor

Edited September 19, 2006 by Hermano Lobo

[Pattaya46]

I doubt that they realize the situation fully.

Raised the question of what about the rich people that come in for a few days every month that own homes/yachts/golf memebrships.

PLUS, there are loads of people that come to Thailand from HK. Singapore and MALAYSIA every week! ( accounts for all of the south's tourism). Will they all be told NOPE, u have had 3 entires, you can't come in for 90 days.

It will totally kill tourism in the south, ( if there is any left after the recent bombing)

Hi phuketrichard ,

I doubt that you realize the situation fully.

Sorry but these new rules will have absolutly NO IMPACT of all these people.

It was already say that it's not 3 entries but several entries up to 90 days !

(See Thailand's New Immigration Regulations)

The change in Regulations is very small and very very few people will have problem with it.

pattaya46

[phuketrichard]

wrong. if you read this link is is 100% written by a western not a thai answering in english.

they already stated that each entry be it 1 day or 4 weeks counts as a full 30 days. so,,,,

30 days voa , max 3 vists

http://www.thaivisa.com/479.0.html

once you leave that 30 day visa is finished. Can u imagine the lines that there would be if the way they wrote it is true. A thia counting the number of days a person has stayed in thailand over the past.... What a joke

Like i said wait until the 1st and it will be forgotten about.

"Police Major Suppachai: Your question is a very good question. OK we know that from the first of October it counts from 90 days and the problems will come back. Many people will be stopped at the border, right. So within 90 days we will try to do something. Because we are thinking about the electronic visas. We will use that kind of visa where the airline will have to submit the name of the person to our office before to issue the ticket, similar system to the US. It needs at least 1 year. "

this is NOT a thai talking An airline submitting the name of someone to immigration before they will issue a ticket.LOL

what the F#@k does this mean?

there is nothing like this in the states.

Thailand does not have any electronic visas.

Edited September 19, 2006 by phuketrichard

[Firefan]

Richard; funny you are quoting from the kaosarnroad article/interview with the no. 2 in emmigration but NOT the part where he mentions (twice!) that they will count DAYS NOT stamps. Go figure...

Cheers!

[John K]

Are we suggesting that these latest moves by the caretaker and Thaksin real governments, are part of a long range, well planned, plan to plan something Thai? I'm sorry. Thais may have intelligence and humility and wisdom and some may even be educated (at Western universities), but I don't see the Thai government officials as PLANNERS. Nope. Thai government schools are infamous for not even telling their own teachers if there will be school tomorrow. If there is an academic calendar, it's in the director's head, not on paper. Deputy ministers at the same ministry contradict one another, and themselves, within 24 hours. Did they plan the airport?

What - are the official announcements of politicians believed to be a plan to actually be executed, or plans to deceive a public that won't be fooled again? Nah, I don't think that most Thais plan ahead. They play checkers, not chess.

So, getting back on topic, is xenophobia against farang, based on visa regulations, planned? Didn't the immigration officials change their minds after they'd announced the plans, such as when the three stamps become effective, before 1 October or starting 1 October? Do we know if there's any specific plan for the MFA to issue new directives to the embassies? Will they follow today's plan?

Peaceblondie excellent post and very much on target.

I have not posted much in this thread until now, but from those of you who have read my comments they are often on more than off. I also try to be future looking. This is almost an identical post to one I made in another thread and perhaps some of you have read it. I know the threads on this are getting huge and I admit not much time to read all the posts (skipped to the end).

Some of the comments about this being politically motivated ring true to me. Because of that I am tending to think that this is the real deal. I am also aware of the fallout of the bombs in the south. That could change things and park this law back on the shelf to try to salvage some income.

If the law continues knowing full well that between the elections, rallies with possible TRT induced violence, legal action, bombs in the south, this will be worse that the tsunami year. That adds credibility to my analysis below.

First time tourists don’t know that Bangkok is very far from the bombs in the south, they just connect with Thailand = bombs, so lets go see “The Great Wall of China” this year.

More Analysis.

After talking with a few people on the phone and in person, the more I feel the following. Please be open minded on this as only a few pieces of the puzzle are in place.

First: According to Sunbelt the law has been on the books from about 2001. My feeling is once the Thais passed it they started to look at it more closely and saw the negatives outweighed the positives (Translation insanity), so they just put it in the shelf and let it gather dust.

Second: If you look at countries that have a bit of turmoil going on, typically they like to limit the number of eyes so they can do what they plan to do. We have seen this very recently in the Middle East with Iraq and now Iran. I am sure there are more but I think you know where I am going with this. History has shown this type of action (getting foreigners out of the country) precedes some sort of action that they prefer the world not see.

Third: Non of this has hit the Thai press. News like this should be front page. Translation keeping the Thais blind.

Fourth: The John Karr issue was just an excuse to invoke this law. The same as the fake car bomb was an excuse to start cleaning house. Same plot just different elements. (Karr and car are pronounced the same.)

Fifth: It has been suggested that Thaksin would stage a coup if he felt he was going to be forced out, so the military moved all he key man to impotent posts to remove that possibility. Thaksin just put them back in posts that he could take over the military.

Sixth: Thaksin has suggested that he may drop out. I simply see this as luring a false sense of security. I know he has too much to lose if he drops out, so any comment to that effect is just deception. (I just added a post there today that shows he will run based on his comments on his trip.)

Seventh: I feel it is well within Thaksin thinking to have acceptable financial losses in Thailand because of this exodus. He personally would experience minimal loses with most of the losses going to the working class who don’t like him anyway. (This is Thaksin’s signature if there ever was one.)

Eighth: The timing of this law coincides with legal action against him, elections, and the potential that the TRT will be dissolved.

Based on this I now feel that this law is being enacted because Thaksin plans to use the military to insure his position as leader of Thailand, however I am not sure what title he will choose.

Your thoughts?

[Ulysses G.]

This is just a goodbye kiss from Thaksin to all the loud-mouth farangs who felt compelled to express their opinions about him publicly and interfere in Thai politics.

Edited September 19, 2006 by Ulysses G.

[John K]

This is just a goodbye kiss from Thaksin to all the loud-mouth farangs who felt compelled to express their opinions about him publicly and interfere in Thai politics.

Matches #7

[johnwills]

John K, some interesting points, lets see how it all pans out.

[cclub75]

Based on this I now feel that this law is being enacted because Thaksin plans to use the military to insure his position as leader of Thailand, however I am not sure what title he will choose.

Would you make a "military coup" (and look as a dirty third world politician) when you can win a genuine democratic elections (and with a real popular base) ?

But I agree : military is the "joker" card. And it remains important.

If really the situation is getting out of control because of the rallies, before elections, then Thaksin will call the army : to restore the order, to fight the "anti democratic forces who want to block the democratic process, the ennemies of demorcacy".

I mean we can all guess and write the appropriate speeches ! The Thaksin's rethoric is so easy to use.

And actually, pretty efficient.

So I see the situation like a 2 steps system.

[SabahCafeandCinima]

"wrong. if you read this link is is 100% written by a western not a thai answering in english."

If your talking about the link at kaosarnroad

To clarafy, there are 3 pieces in the article

1. The first bit is written by a westerner

2. The question and answer bit is pritty much the direct transcript from the video that was shot (removal of other people talking in the background and other questions that were case specific to a few people asking them). A westerner asks the questions in English, the Thai Immigration officer answers them in English.

3. The summary is written by a westerner

Edited September 19, 2006 by SabahCafeandCinima

[rainman]

Would you make a "military coup" (and look as a dirty third world politician) when you can win a genuine democratic elections (and with a real popular base) ?

question asked yesterday has been answered today

[maimeephom]

Can we have a little more light and a little less heat in this topic please.

Good point.

I am curious whether anyone knows whether this will also mean a change in policy regarding issuing multiple entry tourist visas from the west and Penang?

I read in the "Phuket Gazette" , that Penang was going to stop issuing double entry visas. However other countries reported no change.

regards

[John K]

John K, some interesting points, lets see how it all pans out.

I guess the wait is very short for the coup. Sometimes I hate when I am right, perhaps I should charge for my predictions.

All bets are off now. I wonder if this visa law will get trashed now too?

[Vern]

Oh Great. I am planning to move to Thailand Oct. 1st. I had planned on using a tourist visa, as I have friends in Cambodia and will be spending some days there each month anyway. Now I must sort out the O visa, retirment visa. should I get the visa here in the US? Can I sort this out by Oct 1st? Should I come on the tourist visa, and attempt to sort it when I get there? Do I risk spending 90 days in Cambodia?

If I get a retirment visa here, can I renew it in Thailand?

More headaches. TIT

Ray

Get it in the US. It's easy. Just make application for your retirement visa with multi entry, back it up with proof of income.\\\you will have your retirement visa in a few days.

Vern

[phuketrichard]

you can NOT get a retirement EXTENSION , (it is not a visa) on a tourist visa. U must get the extension on top of a current extisting non immmigrant visa if your applyin gfor it here in thailand.

You can get the visa in the states as he said. You need to show 800,000 in the bank or a letter from where you will be receiving your 65,000/month.

The following year you will need to show the 800,000 in a thai bank for the next 1 year extension.

[suiging]

Time your deposit of your 800k, Baht taking a massive hit internationally as we speak ( HK financial telecasts, bloomberg etc etc )

[LivinLOS]

Hate to point it out but all those that rushed 3 mil in last week to get investor visa's are probably smarting now..

Baht taking a tumble.. Condo values have to be effected..

[Colonel_Mustard]

John K, some interesting points, lets see how it all pans out.

I guess the wait is very short for the coup. Sometimes I hate when I am right, perhaps I should charge for my predictions.

Well, as your prediction was that the coup would be Thaksin's work, I wouldn't start charging too much.

[phuketrichard]

what with the coup I assume NOTHING will take place Oct 1st!!!

with Taksin gone everything will be redone after next election.

Edited September 20, 2006 by phuketrichard

[Martin]

I very much doubt if more than three 30-day stays will be allowed in succession, just because of this coup.

The people who will be running things next month are not people who like having 'dodgy' farangs here. Nor are they people who will have any sympathy for Thai businesses that cater for the 'dodgy' farangs.

Any farangs who are not 'dodgy', but have simply found the back-to-back 'permission to stay for 30 days' to be convenient, will be able to make their case to have a proper visa, and keep getting it extended, or renewed.

This change sends out a message that Thailand is making moves to smarten up, from its previous (and mostly unwarranted) sleazy image.

Of course, it won't reduce the sleaze all that much, but that isn't going to register all that much with the people for whom the message is intended.

(And , in the end, it is perceived images that decide how people make their decisions about where they will go for their holidays, or their stopover between Europe and Australia. Singapore has done well to project "squeaky clean"---though it still has the unmentioned Geylang, which is anything but.)

[Lacoste]

Nice thing is, alot of the crap are already getting refused re-entry at the border now.

Nice to see them slowly draining away.

[sting01]

Nice thing is, alot of the crap are already getting refused re-entry at the border now.

Nice to see them slowly draining away.

Today crap = not able to find a job that pay 60 000 k bath per month.

Still today, what is the average income of the average thai? 10 000? more? less? Just compare ... Equality mean for the same work you have to earn the same. ...

What about tomorrow?

Well crap will be the retired who can not let 2 M of bht in the bank without touching it (one exemple).

or

crap = those who can no afford to buy a new condominium every 3 years (it will imply it will be a new visa valid for 3 years).

AM I silly enought? I hope, because I tried to be silly as much as you were by calling crap people who are not necessary crap (what about the english teachers who can not have a WP because their schools do not process their documents? are they crap too?).

[Lacoste]

Nice thing is, alot of the crap are already getting refused re-entry at the border now.

Nice to see them slowly draining away.

Today crap = not able to find a job that pay 60 000 k bath per month.

Still today, what is the average income of the average thai? 10 000? more? less? Just compare ... Equality mean for the same work you have to earn the same. ...

What about tomorrow?

Well crap will be the retired who can not let 2 M of bht in the bank without touching it (one exemple).

or

crap = those who can no afford to buy a new condominium every 3 years (it will imply it will be a new visa valid for 3 years).

AM I silly enought? I hope, because I tried to be silly as much as you were by calling crap people who are not necessary crap (what about the english teachers who can not have a WP because their schools do not process their documents? are they crap too?).

I did not say people on 30 day passes were crap, i said alot of crap is being refused re-entry now, its a good thing

[sriracha john]

Oh Great. I am planning to move to Thailand Oct. 1st. I had planned on using a tourist visa, as I have friends in Cambodia and will be spending some days there each month anyway. Now I must sort out the O visa, retirment visa. should I get the visa here in the US? Can I sort this out by Oct 1st? Should I come on the tourist visa, and attempt to sort it when I get there? Do I risk spending 90 days in Cambodia?

If I get a retirment visa here, can I renew it in Thailand?

More headaches. TIT

Ray

Get it in the US. It's easy. Just make application for your retirement visa with multi entry, back it up with proof of income.\\\you will have your retirement visa in a few days.

Vern

Hi Vern!

Joined July 2004

First Post!!!

Welcome to Thaivisa!...

[chownah]

John K, some interesting points, lets see how it all pans out.

I guess the wait is very short for the coup. Sometimes I hate when I am right, perhaps I should charge for my predictions.

John K,

Yes, the uncanny accuracy of your insights is legendary here on ThaiVisa. Could you take the time to provide some more details and bring us up to date on this insight which you revealed to us about one week ago when you were replying to some speculation about the likelihood that a rumored coup would come to pass:

The fact is a coup makes no sense at all because of timing. If it was just after an election that was viewed as rigged by the public, then would be the time. Any word of coup is simply Thaksin generated. He is deliberately out of town to give the appearance that he is not involved as it is simply his style. Expect more diversions while the real plan is being hatched. I am even wondering if the October 1 visa thing is just another diversion for non Thais as we have been hitting the nail on the head quite often with our “call it as we see it” remarks.