Immigration Confirms The End Of Border Runs From Oct 1, 2006

[jimbim]

Wonder how this affects boat owners.

If you enter Thailand as skipper of foreign-registered yacht, any visas in your passport are ignored. You are given 30 days and no white card. To get a white card, allowing you to leave Thailand or make border runs, you have to post a 20,000-baht guarantee that you won't abandon your boat. That's easy enough -- you get the money back.

But boats can remain in Thailand for a max of one year, and skippers have been able to stay with their boat by making monthly runs. If nothing changes, and boat owners are limited to 90 days, the marine industry in places like Langkawi is going to boom.

[enuff said]

.

"I know many many people in your situation and they will take those dollars elsewhere as you will do. I see a condo market meltdown coming. Big time."

Halaluya. A market that is nothing but a scam and a sham in the first place deserves to melt down.

Why can't anybody understand? Thailand is for Thai people.

Like any other country in the world, they want to control the number of aliens who live within their borders. Nothing to do with racism or xenophobia.

Try doing the "time share shuffle" in Switzerland and see how long you last.

'nuff said

~

[Whitey]

The only real news article I have seen is the one in the Nation which refers to VOA. The Visa On Arrival is different from the 30 day Tourist Permit. Understand the difference between VOA and Permit? The Visa on Arrival facility is going to be limited. I haven't seen anything from any news source that says the 30 day permits will be disallowed. I think some people are blowing this out of proportion.

[jdinasia]

.

"I know many many people in your situation and they will take those dollars elsewhere as you will do. I see a condo market meltdown coming. Big time."

Halaluya. A market that is nothing but a scam and a sham in the first place deserves to melt down.

Why can't anybody understand? Thailand is for Thai people.

Like any other country in the world, they want to control the number of aliens who live within their borders. Nothing to do with racism or xenophobia.

Try doing the "time share shuffle" in Switzerland and see how long you last.

'nuff said

~

It was really interesting to read about your TEFL experiences 'Nuff Said

[Big Dogster]

It kind of seems that they don't want westerners. Why else would they make us leave, rather than make it easier to stay?

The Philipines is trying to make it easy to retire there if you're a westerner;

PHILIPINES RETIREMENT AUTHORITY

The Special Resident Retiree’s Visa (SRRVisa) is a special non-immigrant resident visa that provides its holders with multiple-entry and indefinite stay status in the Philippines.

It also grants Tax-Free incentives and privileges as well as value-added services and benefits that they can avail of from our partner establishments such as hotels, resorts, retirement facilities, and restaurants.

It is a “lifestyle” visa for those who enjoy perks and privileges, a “hassle-free” visa for the frequent business traveler, and a “retirement visa” for the elderly who need special care for their special needs.

Thank you very much for that most helpful link. Great work

[george]

The only real news article I have seen is the one in the Nation which refers to VOA. The Visa On Arrival is different from the 30 day Tourist Permit. Understand the difference between VOA and Permit? The Visa on Arrival facility is going to be limited. I haven't seen anything from any news source that says the 30 day permits will be disallowed. I think some people are blowing this out of proportion.

Read post #1 in this thread.

Which article in The Nation are you referring to?

[barrelhead]

WOW.....what a blow from the immigration!

At least they could've warned you say 3 months before....now you folks got 3 weeks to either p-i-s-s off or arrange a legal visa!

But this is LOS, things like this happens all the time.

After 8 years here, of which I did visa runs 5 years, I have been warned by my Thai friends, Thai staff and Thai officials that this would happen one day. They always told me GET A PROPER VISA!

So I did, and thanks God (or Buddha ) that I did it in time!

This last comment is maybe a bit off topic.....

A friend of mine arrived to Pattaya 3 months ago on a tourist visa....he stayed 2 months and then extended his visa for 30 days.....after that he did a visa run to Cambodia and got a 30 days entry stamp.

When he came back to Pattaya he went to the imigration and applied for a 1 year retirement visa....after he collected his medical docs and showed his bank book with 800,000 Baht he was actually granted the 1 year visa within 20 mins!!!

HOW IS THIS POSSIBLE??? Has anyone in Pattaya tried this?

I live in Phuket and here it is IMPOSSIBLE! You need a non immigrant O visa to get a 1 year retirement visa! That thas been the standard for years now, how come my friend can just walk in and get his 1 year visa when he only has a 30 days entry stamp??? New rules?? Or just LOS in a nutshell?? And BTW....NO he did not pay any money under the table!!

Edited September 11, 2006 by barrelhead

[PeaceBlondie]

Lets talk numbers here. Most of the posts see this as a negative, however I prefer to look for the positive.

First I can see teachers demanding 50,000 ThB from a public school and getting it. Simply because they have a mandate. Estimating about 10,000 teacher increasing their pay between 15000 and 25000 per month that comes to 200,000,000 (two hundred million) based on 20000. Multiply that time an eleven month typical contact 2,200,000,000 (two billion two hundred million) ThB per year alone for teachers. Factor in all the other little things and it is not far fetched to see this will cost Thailand between 10 and 20 Billion ThB per year, and I think that is low estimate. This is simple supply and demand. After all look at the name at the bottom of post #1, it says Forbes and I doubt they would even write about it if it had nothing to do with money.

John K, I see that nobody answered your post within 14 more posts, or the end of the page, so let me jump in and say that your observation is entirely too logical. Schools in Thailand are, generally, not going to pay 50K when they're currently paying 25K to 35K and not providing work permits, visa help, teacher licenses, etc. They don't pay those wages, unless they're hiring natives with a B.Ed. from a native country, certified as prof. teachers in their native country. And those folks demand 85K to 119K.

The usual market economy rules of supply, demand and price don't work like that here, because price is inelastic. Already, many schools have been hiring Filipinos and other nationalities that aren't native speakers of English, for 19K and 22K (and many of these have education degrees). These changes to the visa rules will affect all foreigners. Likewise, the crackdowns by the Ministry of Labour regarding work permits, will affect all foreign teachers.

My doomsday logical conclusion is that the English programs, taught by native speakers or nearly-native nearly-speakers, will collapse, and ThaiVisa's children will be back to all-Thai language programs, unless you've got the really big bucks for the incredibly expense international schools that actually get their act together. And the luk-khrungs can speak Thailish.

[cyborgx]

Thanks for the Elite links, just had a read, but it's only 90 day visas, so not much use for me.

My personal gripe with Immigration are:-

1) RETIREMENT PENSION

I am retired early but since I am only in my 40's can't get a retirement pension even though I meet every other criteria

2) INVESTMENT

Sounds fine, but from my investigations that leaves 3 options.

a) FIXED DEPOSIT WITH GOVERNMENT BANK - virtually no interest at all

GOVERNMENT/STATE INDUSTRY BONDS - Would love to buy them, but have you tried! IF ANYONE HAS AN EASY PROCESS FOR THIS PLEASE POST NOW!

c) CONDO PURCHASE - IMHO not a particularly good investment at this time (prices doubled/tripled in last few years and heading for a crash or at least price freeze in the very near future). Also the idea of buying to rent here is a joke if you try to do it legally. LEGALLY you are liable for a lot of tax on both rent, property, as well as when buying and selling. Yes there are ways to avoid paying some of this, but do you really want to risk the implications of being caught?

Having worked here LEGALLY for many years in the past

(but never 3 consecutive years) I find myself (and I think many are the same) in the situation that my life, home, friends etc. are here, and the easiest way to deal with staying here recently has been multiple entry tourist visas.

I do not share other's interpretations that multiple entry visa's will be exempt from this declaration. At the very least, I see problems getting 2 consecutive multiple entry visas as a consulate, and worse case scenario, I can see people being told that after doing a same day border crossing, that they can't come back for another 90 days!

If anyone has a link to the EXACT Thai version of the statement (and English translation if there is one), please post it.

Once again, if anyone has an easy way to buy the Governemt bonds (which give about 4-5% return from my research, please post (I have tried TISCO and they have been pretty useless).

[pistonpilot]

More lack of compassion and arrogance concerning the pain of other people who are not you.

Getting a long term visa is not an option for a lot of perfectly fine people.

Many have long term ties to Thailand and many will have to leave the country and often loved ones of their choice.

Not a crisis? Are you serious?

Absolutely serious. I've come in on the 30 day stamp, and I have gotten 60 day tourist visa, and the non-o that I am on now.

Someone who comes in on a 30 day stamp, buys a property, and then relies on the laws never to change, is a chump.

I got my O visa with no hassle from Washington. I showed them my rental agreement for a house for one year and got it returned to me, with visa, in 5 days.

What's the problem? Multiple entry, and you're in for over a year.

[A_Traveller]

Thanks for the Elite links, just had a read, but it's only 90 day visas, so not much use for me. Is it? I thought it was a one year with multiple entry, though presume you must report if you stay 'in-country' for more than 90 days.

.. ...

I do not share other's interpretations that multiple entry visa's will be exempt from this declaration. At the very least, I see problems getting 2 consecutive multiple entry visas as a consulate, and worse case scenario, I can see people being told that after doing a same day border crossing, that they can't come back for another 90 days!

If anyone has a link to the EXACT Thai version of the statement (and English translation if there is one), please post it. My point earlier as well, George did say in the previous thread that he was going to speak with imm. and publish the resultant conversation {If memory recalls} When Imm. changed the overstay charges there was both a formal statement and coverage in the newspapers, with this I see there's still no mention of it on the Nation site, or the PRD site, as of yet.

Regards

/edit punc.//

Edited September 11, 2006 by A_Traveller

[pistonpilot]

"Lazy Ass" Did you not read the part about WORKING!!! I would and have done several times. Some of us lazy asses are to busy working and and raising our children to run off and get visa's. Especially when you have the option to get a tourist visa. Thanks for your insightfull and helpfull coment though.

I'm sorry, let me apologize to you. I see things logically. I engage my brain and I look at problems and find solutions. Sometimes I do a cost analysis to see which is the better solution.

When you make a statement such as "too busy working" and "raising our children", the logic meter in my head goes full tilt.

It doesn't compute.

Maybe you can help me.

It would seem to me that doing a visa run is a complete waste of time, moreso than getting the proper visa in the first place.

Please enlighten me to your way.

Edited September 11, 2006 by pistonpilot

[dr_Pat_Pong]

What about getting an "Elite Card"?

Are they easy to obtain if you have 1 million baht to pay?

Are they good for 5 years or just 1 year?

Do they eliminate the need to do 30 and/or 90 day border runs?

Don't know the answer to these questions, but hoping maybe you do.

With the million paid over it is a breeze to obtain the Elite Card. The visa's are for 5 years but enable only 90 day stays, but no border run is required, you simply extend the visa every 90 days.

[Big Dogster]

More lack of compassion and arrogance concerning the pain of other people who are not you.

Getting a long term visa is not an option for a lot of perfectly fine people.

Many have long term ties to Thailand and many will have to leave the country and often loved ones of their choice.

Not a crisis? Are you serious?

Absolutely serious. I've come in on the 30 day stamp, and I have gotten 60 day tourist visa, and the non-o that I am on now.

Someone who comes in on a 30 day stamp, buys a property, and then relies on the laws never to change, is a chump.

I got my O visa with no hassle from Washington. I showed them my rental agreement for a house for one year and got it returned to me, with visa, in 5 days.

What's the problem? Multiple entry, and you're in for over a year.

Non O based on a house rental agreement. sounds like a scam to me. I suppose u expect to be able to do this every year. Not a chance

[excite]

Obviously the usual lack of thought through "misinformation" released by the authorities causes havoc and speculation..

Whilst many posters have rightly expressed concerns, I guess there will be some clarification soon.

There are many legal rights of entry and stay in Thailand but inevitably when application of laws change many are caught up unsuspectingly.

Many are supporting families here and may be denied right of long term access (many are not legally married to their Thai wives so cant get the marriage visa).

I guess the one thing I havent seen mentioned here is the Thailand Long Stay programme.

Guess everyone can stay but this is a way to get more Baht from each and every one who doesnt fit into a set category.

I have a non imm B so it doesnt affect me personally. But be aware there are tougher restrictions coming from the dept of Labour. I had a non B rejected for my British son who was going to spend a year with his Thai brother.

Not sure where it all ends.

[cyborgx]

ELITE CARD: From what I read, Bt.1M for 5 year visa multiple entry visa, but only 90 day stay (with 30 day extension possible as usual), but still have to leave country as far as I could tell. Renewal of the 5 year visa is free, and for "Individuals" the member ship is for life, so Bt.1M=90 day Visa's for life

George did say in the previous thread that he was going to speak with imm. and publish the resultant conversation {If memory recalls} When Imm. changed the overstay charges there was both a formal statement and coverage in the newspapers, with this I see there's still no mention of it on the Nation site, or the PRD site, as of yet.

I'd love to hear more about this. Perhaps a little off topic, but now very relevant to a lot of people watching this thread

[simcity]

okay here is a hypothetical situation:

an american comes to thailand to live. but he has a job in america. he can do the work from his house in thailand, everything works over the internet. the money is deposited in his US account, nothing passes over thailand's borders. this american has a house and family in thailand, and takes nothing from thai society, in fact he is ONLY contributing by spending his US-made money here. he stays on a tourist visa- triple entry from penang. no point in trying to get a non-imm, as he does not have en employer in thailand to write the letter to get the visa. it should be perfectly alright for him to live on a tourist visa.

what happens to this person now? when he has used up his first 90 days of the triple entry visa (60 days + extension), if after Oct. 1, would they make him leave the country for 90 days before he could come back in, or would they just renew for another 90 days (60 days + extension) as usual?

Thanks for any input.

that is my situation the last ( 8 years in thailand ), do not work but still trading online, but do it as a hoby !first two years i got a one year visa ( 3 month max stay ) after the consulate give me 3 entries for 90 days and did find a more understanding consulate who issue me for the last two years a 1 years visa ( 3 months stay ) !

shop around

[dr_Pat_Pong]

Obviously the usual lack of thought through "misinformation" released by the authorities causes havoc and speculation..

Whilst many posters have rightly expressed concerns, I guess there will be some clarification soon.

There are many legal rights of entry and stay in Thailand but inevitably when application of laws change many are caught up unsuspectingly.

Many are supporting families here and may be denied right of long term access (many are not legally married to their Thai wives so cant get the marriage visa).

I guess the one thing I havent seen mentioned here is the Thailand Long Stay programme.

Guess everyone can stay but this is a way to get more Baht from each and every one who doesnt fit into a set category.

I have a non imm B so it doesnt affect me personally. But be aware there are tougher restrictions coming from the dept of Labour. I had a non B rejected for my British son who was going to spend a year with his Thai brother.

Not sure where it all ends.

That is probably due to the fact that a Non-Immigrant B visa was never the appropriate visa for a family reunion. He could have applied for a Non-Immigrant O visa if proof of the claimed relationship was submitted with the visa application.

[cyborgx]

Elite Card. The visa's are for 5 years but enable only 90 day stays, but no border run is required, you simply extend the visa every 90 days.

Are you sure about that? I just read the site, and if you read the "*" at the bottom it says 30 day extension. My interpreation is that you just get the usual 30 days, 2 weeks, 1 week, but you get a nice secretary who does it for you...

Has anyone got ACTUAL experience doing this?

Edited September 11, 2006 by cyborgx

[mai loo khrap]

Was on a tourist visa , ran out. last 3months ive done visa runs.have to do a run this weekend 17th.

after this if i flew to penang would they give me a tourist visa??

Probably going in home November

[Felt 35]

One thing is that the immigration laws here in Thailand are long overdue and that a renovation is much needed.

However when at the same time there can be a loss of income, even if small, well I`m in doubt if it will be practical the way its written.

As mentioned on another tread on this forum, its election time and

this latest immigration tightning can partly be political propaganda directly aimed at influencing the opinions or behavior of the local people.

We know how it is in the West before any election, promises about better health systems, better and stricter enforcement with immigration, less tax, etc.

BTW, I`m not a user of the monthly border runs, but have sympathy with they who have to or want to because it is the law which is wrong and let them do so.

"Sit it out"

[pistonpilot]

I don't see many airplanes "flying" when they are "parked" in a hanger. Is that another "kind" ? Gee I hate smart assed nit pickers!

There are "parked" airplanes, and airplanes of another type - those that are "flying"

Running out of gas while flying, is a crisis.

[pistonpilot]

Having been married for five years, and having been on the Non Immigrant O, I have preferred to go in and out every three months, rather than leave 400k in a Thai Bank with no interest and a constantly depreciating currency. There will no doubt be those, who don't have the 400k. It would be a big scandal internationally if they start seperating families. Then again they are so dense, that I wouldnt' be surprised it they tried, only the loss of face seems to instill any semblance of common sense, to officialdom!

Depreciating against what currency?

[fxm88]

Not a crisis? Are you serious?

Absolutely serious. I've come in on the 30 day stamp, and I have gotten 60 day tourist visa, and the non-o that I am on now.

Oh, I see: it'll only become a crisis when they next change whatever law/rule/regulation that affects YOU!

Then who will be the chump, hmmm?

[mark lamai]

1. I remember some years ago reading that there was a limit of 3 30 day entries in a year. maybe this is an existing regulation that has been revived.

2. The many wealthy self-satisfied posters can pull their heads in, cause obviously this topic is of no relevance to them.

3. Ever tried getting the paperwork for a non-imm B, let alone for a work permit, from a school or employer? 6-12 months would be about normal.

4. Anyone really know the truth of how this will work?

or will it be forgotten in 3 months time.

5. Illegal workers? like the exploited Burmese getting paid 80 baht a day to build shophouses for Thai landlords?

6. The presumption that if you have a real Visa you are not a dirty scumbag is stupid.

as is the corollary.

7. Obviously its a political game for domestic consumption.

[ding]

It kind of seems that they don't want westerners. Why else would they make us leave, rather than make it easier to stay?

The Philipines is trying to make it easy to retire there if you're a westerner;

PHILIPINES RETIREMENT AUTHORITY

The Special Resident Retiree’s Visa (SRRVisa) is a special non-immigrant resident visa that provides its holders with multiple-entry and indefinite stay status in the Philippines.

It also grants Tax-Free incentives and privileges as well as value-added services and benefits that they can avail of from our partner establishments such as hotels, resorts, retirement facilities, and restaurants.

It is a “lifestyle” visa for those who enjoy perks and privileges, a “hassle-free” visa for the frequent business traveler, and a “retirement visa” for the elderly who need special care for their special needs.

Thank you very much for that most helpful link. Great work

You're welcome.

In fact, I read that they've reduced the capital you must bring in at 35-50 years to $20,00USD from $50,000. The $20,000 can be aplied to your condo, etc.

You have to pay a $500 per anum fee, however, at this rate.

They evaluate each retiree on a case by case basis and I imagine hiring a secretary/consultant on referral would go a long way to finding a palm to grease.

LOS is having muslim troubles too, so each country looks to be equalizing for this future retiree expat.

[preahko]

George wrote a lot of true stuff here

Well, what the hel_l! LOS makes it very easy to stay, just stick to the rules.

I had a company here and my proper work permit, and I was paying taxes. Now I am retired, and I got my proper retirement visa. Where is the problem? If anyone wants to stay here, (s)he should read the rules and decide if (s)he can accept it. If not, (s)he should stay where (s)he is. You always have the option to spend your holidays here.

Thank you for your attention,

a happy guy from Phuket, who got no visa problems.

this flip and shallow response shows a great deal of ignorance and lack of understanding of the complexity of this situation. I "live" in Thailand by virtue of the 30-day stay/monthly visa runs, etc., yes. but as I do NOT "do business here," there is no way I could get a work permit. I am employed by a university in the US, and my work (involving Southeast

Asian languages) is such that I could do it from anywhere; for various reasons I choose to do it from Thailand.

I am paid US dollars into a US bank account, which I then spend every cent of in Thailand. I am a contributor to the Thai economy, and I take nothing from it. So where does this crackdown leave people like me?

preahko

[Thaiquila]

Not a crisis? Are you serious?

Absolutely serious. I've come in on the 30 day stamp, and I have gotten 60 day tourist visa, and the non-o that I am on now.

Oh, I see: it'll only become a crisis when they next change whatever law/rule/regulation that affects YOU!

Then who will be the chump, hmmm?

Its not a crisis for him. Its not a crisis for me either because there happens to be a long term visa I can get. However, it is a crisis for many farangs on this board. Lets hope there really are reasonable alternatives that continue to be options, such as multiple entry tourist visas from Malaysia. I also think this could be a real downer for the condo market, sales and rental, in farang popular areas.

[A_Traveller]

Has anyone got ACTUAL experience doing this?

Re Elite, it doesn't matter what the site says The legal position is dictated by the Immigration Act B.E. 2522 {1979}. All the Elite company can do is facilitate services under the act.

Regards

[Meerkat]

Elite Card. The visa's are for 5 years but enable only 90 day stays, but no border run is required, you simply extend the visa every 90 days.

Are you sure about that? I just read the site, and if you read the "*" at the bottom it says 30 day extension. My interpreation is that you just get the usual 30 days, 2 weeks, 1 week, but you get a nice secretary who does it for you...

Has anyone got ACTUAL experience doing this?

Yes, as I posted a page or three back.

You get a full-page 5 year visa, and each time you re-enter Thailand you get a 90 day stamp. In order to extend the 90 days for another 90 days, you do it via appointment at any immigration office/check-point apart from Don Muang (and probably Suvarnabhumi). Or of course leave the country and get another 90 day stamp when you return.

I haven't needed to do this yet, as I'm regularly in and out of LoS, but this is how it was explicitly explained to me by the Member Services team.

If you look again, the footnote you saw on the TE site refers to a 30 day visa for your spouse.