Thai university students score 7/100 for English test

[trogers]

I have helped students at both Payap U.and Chiang Mai U. with some studies. I have been amazed by the large number of students that will copy something directly from a source without citing it. Additionally I have found that cheating in exams is rampant. Teachers do nothing about it. Students will even text answers to each other in the classroom during tests. As with what has been said here , I did ask a few Thai teachers (university level) concerning these matters. The answers were it doesn't matter , they would still have to pass them. That is the truth about "some" of the problems with the Thai educational system. Additionally I have had extreme difficulty in having a conversation with three separate Thai English teachers , they were unable to understand the content of my sentences while discussing some of these matters. It took several attempts at and the use of several different words to have a small polite exchange , even though they were the English teachers......for what it is worth ( But as a side note I have found that the Burmese students have a far greater comprehension of English)

Remember how the system wakes up when placed into the international limelight? Aviation, fishing, immigrants/refugees...

Should the World be told, Thai Education runs on a 'no-fail' policy...

Edited May 21, 2015 by trogers

[catweazle]

A couple of years back my Thai daughter came to me wanting help with an English homework test paper that she had been given at her (primary) school. There were about 50 questions to be answered of the multiple choice type. I couldn't help but notice that almost all of the questions (in English) had mistakes, spelling, punctuation or gramattical. I answered the questions for her and then with a red ballpoint pen proceeded to correct all the errors in the test paper.

This was somewhat foolish of me as I should have realised that by showing up the teachers ignorance of the language that he was supposed to be teaching, he would loose face.

My duughter still comes to me for help with her English homework, but insists that I only write on the exam paper in pencil so that she can erase anything that might be contentious.

The Thai education system is hopeless.

"I answered the questions for her".

And how does that help with her English?

Buzzzteeeed !!!

[pinkpanther99]

So may folks have this completely wrong. The Thai system is excellent. It is a system of indoctrination to keep the vast majority of Thai people as stupid and ignorant as possible. And keep them busy for their first 30 years, and out of trouble. And the key to the system is the Thai language, and not so much at all the "education system" itself.

I absolutely agree.

People are complaining here but the Thai education system does exactly what it sets out to do.

It offers kids a basic education - the ability to read and write but that's about it.

It stifles creativity, critical thinking and a want to learn more.

Job well done if you ask me.

[rebelplatoon]

What a big supplies. My fliend me...

Within ASEAN they'll be losing out. Enforce more laws to get rid of English teachers, that'll do the trick...

[LannaGuy]

I think Thais are too proud and arrogant to think they need to learn English

[trogers]

A couple of years back my Thai daughter came to me wanting help with an English homework test paper that she had been given at her (primary) school. There were about 50 questions to be answered of the multiple choice type. I couldn't help but notice that almost all of the questions (in English) had mistakes, spelling, punctuation or gramattical. I answered the questions for her and then with a red ballpoint pen proceeded to correct all the errors in the test paper.

This was somewhat foolish of me as I should have realised that by showing up the teachers ignorance of the language that he was supposed to be teaching, he would loose face.

My duughter still comes to me for help with her English homework, but insists that I only write on the exam paper in pencil so that she can erase anything that might be contentious.

The Thai education system is hopeless.

"I answered the questions for her".

And how does that help with her English?

It is called tutoring.

Modern concepts of learning show that more can be achieved by the student if the answer is known. This is a universally accepted teaching norm today.

One learns how to untangle a tangle because the result of a straight line is known. We do not teach how to create a tangle until we first teach how to uncreate the tangle or the tangle is simply accepted as being a tangle.

Simple, isn't it?

Simply put, understanding the path to an answer is better than just memorizing the answer.

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

So how do Thai students go overseas for post-secondary education get in the door of a USA College/University, and yet graduate!

Yingluck managed it, speaks volumes.

Some start out at U.S.-based private language schools for foreign students if their English test scores are very low, before transitioning to community colleges or universities.

Others with better scores will start at community colleges or universities, but place into remedial English courses they have to take/complete before progressing.

But also, it's certainly the case that if some foreign student is coming from a billionaire/very hi-so foreign family, the U.S. school and its administrators are going to know it...and there's going to be some element of pressure to succeed/pass for all involved.

[Lupatria]

If all energy wasted for years in fruitless talks, meetings, proposals, and debates about education reform, could be transformed into electricity, this country has the ability to feed the world's larges aluminum plant.

Edited May 21, 2015 by Lupatria

[trogers]

So how do Thai students go overseas for post-secondary education get in the door of a USA College/University, and yet graduate!

Yingluck managed it, speaks volumes.

Some start out at U.S.-based private language schools for foreign students if their English test scores are very low, before transitioning to community colleges or universities.

Others with better scores will start at community colleges or universities, but place into remedial English courses they have to take/complete before progressing.

But also, it's certainly the case that if some foreign student is coming from a billionaire/very hi-so foreign family, the U.S. school and its administrators are going to know it...and there's going to be some element of pressure to succeed/pass for all involved.

The 'No-fail' policy again? Money speaks even in developed countries...?

[Mr Somtam]

Typical Thai bashing thread.

I've employed over 100 graduates here, many with perfect English, some with poorer English.

To say they all "can't give a shit about learning" is absolute nonsense.

There are many very smart people here who would have done well at any school.

Those are the ones that learn despite the system...

But still, why is it that Thais don't read? How can you learn (any subject but especially languages) without reading? I mean we had to read literature in English, German and French in school. Then you can really get the feel of the language.

I see homework here and it's always "fill in the gap" and stuff like that, no real progress in it. I think if you just read a lot and watch movies, listen to music in a foreign language you will learn much more naturally than when you only do the textbook excercises...

And please STOP using Thai in English class. Explain the basic instructions to the students in Thai ONCE and then English (French/German/Chinese) ONLY! You can't learn without immersion. Impossible. I can speak Thai (a little) because I never speak English here in the village, nobody would understand anyway. I am listening to Thai and speaking Thai 24/7, that's why I learn. I only turn to my wife in Dutch when I absolutely have to, most of the time I use my "baby Thai" in combination with body language, pointing etc. etc. But Thai students are waaaay too shy to do stuff like that. Always "Good morning" "I'm fine thank you". Do they even know what they are saying?

And to the people who don't need English in their job or life: it can be fun to learn something new, and a skill too. Maybe now you want to be a ricefarmer or tuk-tuk driver. But when you change your mind later on you have this skill called "being able to learn" already...

[daiwill60]

“The students nowadays fail because they just don't give a shit about studying and reading and they know that if most of the class fail, the whole class will still pass to the next course and finally graduate. Why? Coz you can't fail students in this country and make them repeat classes,” Wright said in the post.

The problem of the Thai education system in a nutshell.

"That's it in a nut shell!" I was going to say that! It's bloody ridiculous and reflects poorly on the country as a whole.

They 'couldn't give a shit' often translates to:

They turn up late, often very late for class, often miss all morning of a full day classes or all afternoon. Excuses like 'had to go with my sister to pick up her new car' and even lamer excuses.

Plus the lecturer has to keep telling many again and again to stop talking and listen.

Plus many lecturers now stop and approach one of the talkers and say 'what did I just say?' The response is 'I don't know'. Often with arrogance.

Cheating in exams still abounds even though if caught they are removed from the room with an automatic F (which at my university is changed to I (Incomplete) and they can sit again. I refuse to conduct an extra exam for these students, many lecturers do the same.)

Plus continuous talking or texting on their mobile phone. I now go through the ritual at the start of every class:

- Up to 5 minutes late you can join the class, over 5 minutes late cannot enter the room. Under 80% overall attendance cannot sit for exams.

- Tell the whole class to turn their mobiles completely off and put their phone on the desk in front of them and phone cannot be touched. Phones that ring I confiscate, and they get it back at the end of the week. Many lecturers are doing the same thing.

And we still have students who try to demand they should be allowed to join lectures conducted in English because they got A or B for grammar at high school but their conversation / comprehension skills are zero.

Pretty much sounds the same as the Uni I am working in .

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

I have helped students at both Payap U.and Chiang Mai U. with some studies. I have been amazed by the large number of students that will copy something directly from a source without citing it.

I remember being asked once to read a master's thesis for a student at a private university in BKK, I believe it was for an aviation related degree.

That's not a subject I'm particularly familiar with, but as I read the thesis, it was extremely clear just from the writing style that pages and pages of content from the thesis had been lifted verbatim from some English language aviation textbook -- without being quoted in the thesis document.

I wasn't particularly surprised to encounter that. But I was really surprised at the balls (so to speak) of the student to be willing to submit such a blatantly and heavily plagiarized thesis, presumably with the expectation that it was going to pass muster.

[VINCENT2012]

thats give an idea about the IQ of the main population and the knowledges they have.................but chuuuuuuuuuuuuut, can not say it.that could hurt some proud fellows.

yesterday in my shop talking to one , i ask a guy .

how much is 4x4.......... ............? after one minute, smiling and lots of crap...... he took my calculator from the desk to get the answerd.

he knew that was 16 but could not say it!

a few days ago, i ask my thai neibourd, why you u dont send your little child to the school near home in our village?

answerd from the thai girl.....too lazy, come or dont come to make class, or sleep, or send the children to play around ?

2 mounts ago i received 4 teachers to my resort, one told me very proudly that he was a geography teacher, aahhh...ok!

so jokingly i ask him what is the capital of france? ...dont know, so i ask then (because of the football...) what is the capital of england...still..i dont know, ....very but very surprised i said what is the capital of china......again i dont know, then crazy about this i ask him what is the capital of thailand? ooooooh big smile in the face, that one was to easy to answerd....then i ask him has a geographic teacher how come u dont know these simple things, he answerd, i teach my student to use the GPS in thailand.

wwwwwwwwwwwoua......please have a drink and take a deep breath

i mean the all education system is failing in thailand, the should start to teach teacher first

[daiwill60]

I have helped students at both Payap U.and Chiang Mai U. with some studies. I have been amazed by the large number of students that will copy something directly from a source without citing it. Additionally I have found that cheating in exams is rampant. Teachers do nothing about it. Students will even text answers to each other in the classroom during tests. As with what has been said here , I did ask a few Thai teachers (university level) concerning these matters. The answers were it doesn't matter , they would still have to pass them. That is the truth about "some" of the problems with the Thai educational system. Additionally I have had extreme difficulty in having a conversation with three separate Thai English teachers , they were unable to understand the content of my sentences while discussing some of these matters. It took several attempts at and the use of several different words to have a small polite exchange , even though they were the English teachers......for what it is worth ( But as a side note I have found that the Burmese students have a far greater comprehension of English)

Remember how the system wakes up when placed into the international limelight? Aviation, fishing, immigrants/refugees...

Should the World be told, Thai Education runs on a 'no-fail' policy...

Yes, and pointing out at the same time that the no fail failures are allowed to make / repair cars , build motorways and bridges, service aviation, and possibly in the near future will also be allowed to build and be required to service high speed rail networks too. Scary isn't it ?

[deckape]

The test in the photo is ridiculous.

As others have said, there is no place for Thai script on an English test. Unbelievable If this is the way tests are administered.

[JoePai]

A Thai university graduate can do three things -

Speak Thai language

Write Thai language

Read Thai language

Are you sure ?

[apalink_thailand]

Farang ED visa students score 7/100 for Thai test

[SOTIRIOS]

....nothing to dispute here Chris.....you said it all....

...been there...done that......

..always somebody else's fault....especially if there is a foreigner involved....

[fred Kubasa]

And just last week a prominent government figure said Thailand " 90 % ready for Asean " ! English is the chosen language for Asean so how could Thailand be ready even 10 % if most can't even communicate ?

[eliotness]

Talking to western Europeans, most seem to have learnt English not at school too much, but rather watching TV programmes in English, movies in English, pop songs in English and the easy availability of English language books and newspapers. Here everything on TV (films, documentaries etc) is dubbed, here up-country there are no English pop songs on the radio (since May 2014) and I can't find a shop that sells English language newspapers, never mind a book. 2 months ago I went to Laos and there all the films were in their original language, not dubbed, such a difference.

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

So how do Thai students go overseas for post-secondary education get in the door of a USA College/University, and yet graduate!

Yingluck managed it, speaks volumes.

Some start out at U.S.-based private language schools for foreign students if their English test scores are very low, before transitioning to community colleges or universities.

Others with better scores will start at community colleges or universities, but place into remedial English courses they have to take/complete before progressing.

But also, it's certainly the case that if some foreign student is coming from a billionaire/very hi-so foreign family, the U.S. school and its administrators are going to know it...and there's going to be some element of pressure to succeed/pass for all involved.

The 'No-fail' policy again? Money speaks even in developed countries...?

No... I didn't say that, as regards to the breadth of U.S. universities.

There are many thousands of U.S. colleges and universities, and I'm sure/I know some among them do in effect have no fail policies for foreign students. But, having worked in higher education in the U.S. for many years, I don't believe that to be the norm.

Rather, from most universities' perspective, their mission is to help the student succeed. That doesn't mean passing them on without requiring them to learn. But it may mean requiring students to repeat classes, participate in extra tutoring, supplemental English language courses, etc etc.

Meaning extra help and attention to at least hopefully get them to pass their classes. And that attention is likely going to be amplified, in my experience, if the case of a struggling student who is known to the school administrators as being someone from a prominent background.

But, for those who don't want to make the effort, it also could mean low grades sufficient to end up on academic probation and, if not corrected, eventually being asked to leave the school. All of that is a far cry from Thailand's de fact/widespread "no fail" policy even for students who don't make any effort at all.

[tonysilly]

And you think this is done accidentally? Think about it?

[DaveinAsia]

Sorry for laughing out loud but this same debate was going on 10 years ago when I was teaching here. Nothing seems to have changed in 10 years. Back then they were blaming the lousy whoremongering farang teachers but the whole truth of the matter of course comes down to the lazy and spoiled brains of the students

[StatlerandWaldorf]

Was the student in an English class or was it just a random student ?

anyone have a link to the " English Delivery by Chris program "

there seems more to this story that is not posted.....

Come to your own conclusions about this guy.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QAjDbj0gmrg

Personally I think that this is just typical BDTV (Brain Dead T.V) which seems to be prevalent on T.V here.

[RigPig]

Fact is English is not used here a lot by normal Thais. I would say its far more important to teach them other skills. However doctors and others that need it for their job should be taught better. But to say that everyone has to learn English here in a country where its almost not used. Why.. just some extra stuff they will never use.

Only to make some farangs happy that can't speak Thai themselves ?

Mind you I am talking here about Somchai in the motorcycle shop or Mai in the 711.. not Nung behind the counter of a hotel. Its not needed for everyone, so a lot of time is wasted. Just put extra effort in those who need it and forget about the rest.

I remember I had to learn to speak German, I hated it.. even though the Netherlands and Germany were trade partners many of us would never use German. So it was easy for us to dump it after a year or so. The same should be done to English for those who don't need it. There are enough resources wasted in Thai education why make it worse.

I am of course 100% against passing everyone that is crazy for any subject.

This article discussed about University undergrads, not some grade school students in the province.

When AEC kicks off, even SMCs might be of foreign investors looking for English-speaking staff.

For university in the relevant fields of course English is needed but its not equally needed everywhere. What I suggest is to teach it good to those who need it (concentrate the resources there). Don't teach it to those who don't want it and probably don't need it. Its real frustrating learning something you don't need.

The only time I ever failed a subject was because it had no relevance and I just could not bring myself to study the subject as it was bone dry and had no relevance to my future job. Motivation is quite important when studying.

I disagree, You never know what you will need later in life, certainly not at 18. But that aside, it´s like the argument of why learn math when we all have calculators? Why learn this when I can look it up in a book or on the net? Because you have to understand what it is telling you and how to interpret it.

English is not a good language, but I think it is something like 70% of the world speak some English. If I called Japan to buy some car parts and said Ḧello there would be a click and a voice would come back sying Ÿes how may I help you?¨

If I siad ¨Sawadee Krap¨ there would just be a click......

If you get my drift.

How can the poor rice farmers daughter aspire to a job earning reasonable money if they can´t speak English? Seriously, at least it gives them something to help better their lives and maybe their kds lives eventually! As I said we don need math we have calculators or cash registers.....

[bikerlou47]

I am fine...and you?

[seajae]

So how do Thai students go overseas for post-secondary education get in the door of a USA College/University, and yet graduate!

you will find that those ones have a wealthy family and attending is only optional to passing, just look at YL, cant speak english yet has a degree from a US uni, question answered

[Thunderbirds20]

many Thais pronounce island like Iceland! No wonder Thai university diplomas are useless outside Thailand. they are not worth the paper they are printed on. My university graduated Thai wife asked me one day, ... "Australia! That is close to England, right?" .. and she meant in the geographic sense, not political or economic!

What do they teach in all the years they spend in school, ..and have to pay so much to get. they do not learn anything. No wonder the students have no interest. Classes must be enormously BORING!

[brewsterbudgen]

A Thai university graduate can do three things -

Speak Thai language

Write Thai language

Read Thai language

Plenty of Thai university students study in English programs for their Bachelor or Master degree. Currently hundreds of Thais are taking IELTS in order to study at overseas universities.

[Lovekorat]

I do not teach in Thailand but I am not surprised at all with many of the comments of those who do. I live near an English guy who teaches at a local private school. He often comes over in despair at 1) the attitude, laziness and arrogance of the kids and 2) the attitude of the school, directors who are only interested in not upsetting parents who pay the money and not with kids learning.

But I am not so sure that laziness and arrogance is just a Thai thing. I knew many students in the UK who were no different, didn't want to learn languages, just wanted Facebook all day. I don't for one minute think this applies to all British kids but I suspect quite a few. When you have an education system at universities that run courses in bloody Madonna then you know you have had it. Or of course ' media studies'!! What a bloody waste of time.

I interviewed a law undergraduate for a part time secretarial job at my sports club. Couldn't spell! How does that work in terms of entry to a law degree?

I went to Manchester where if I failed a module I got one chance in the three years to pass it again. No excuses fail and you're out! We tended to pay attention and work.

A few years ago I was working in Holland, teaching (tennis) an 8 year old boy for the first time. Not a rich kid just an ordinary boy. I was still learning to speak Dutch and so in a mixture of broken Dutch and pigeon English I was explaining to him what I wanted him to do. He stopped and walked over to me and said " it's ok , I can speak English". And he could.

I congratulated his parents after and they said " oh, he speaks French as well, and of course German. He starts Spanish next year"!

Perhaps it's just a cultural thing. If parents don't give a crap then neither will the kids.

But it's also the attitudes here.

Near here is another private school. They have a non-English European teaching English. That's ok, he speaks it perfectly but he is also an ex-international head swimming coach who worked at 3 consecutive Olympic Games ( and where they won medals)

Is he allowed to run the swimming at the school?

Course he's not.

The reason... " oh we have a Thai man who does it and he is better"

Yes of course he is.

No one can do it better than a Thai can they.

After all they sweep the board in every major sport don't they ....the coaches must be that good!...NOT!

So it's no different in the classroom. Let's get a Thai to teach English even though they can't speak it themselves!

7 out of 100 ....might be generous.