Why is that Thai schools pass every kid regardless of their ability/grades?

[MaeJoMTB]

I was told by an employer in Singapore that Thai Uni degrees are not recognised outside Thailand

True and no wonder why ...

Do you have any idea of how many Thais with local degrees go on to graduate school in the UK, US, and Germany? When Western universities admit those Thais to graduate schools, they recognize the Thai degrees. Most employers have no idea which schools are accredited and are decent schools and which do not; they simply ask for a degree. That is why so many applicants claim a degree and have never graduated; you can simply buy degrees online.

They all need to pass IELTs first.

The degree isn't important.

[smotherb]

I was told by an employer in Singapore that Thai Uni degrees are not recognised outside Thailand

True and no wonder why ...

Do you have any idea of how many Thais with local degrees go on to graduate school in the UK, US, and Germany? When Western universities admit those Thais to graduate schools, they recognize the Thai degrees. Most employers have no idea which schools are accredited and are decent schools and which do not; they simply ask for a degree. That is why so many applicants claim a degree and have never graduated; you can simply buy degrees online.

They all need to pass IELTs first.

The degree isn't important.

You could speak the Western language perfectly, but if you did not possess a recognized bachelor degree you could not gain entrance to a masters program and without a recognized masters degree you cannot gain entrance to a doctoral program. The degree is the basis for acceptance, the abilty to speak the school's language is secondary.

[lostinisaan]

If no student is allowed to fail , the same applies to would be teachers . Attending a course is all that matters . I know a young university graduate who has become a qualified English teacher , but barely speaks or understands English . My stepson went to college for two years to train to be an electrician . His tutor did complain to mother that he was behind with his studies , but he still graduated and got his certificate . You could scarcely ask him to change a light bulb . He eventually went to work for an industrial electrical company , but that didn't last long .

Our 16 year old son decided to "study" electronics at the local technical college.

His second year just started and he freaking knows nothing about electronic at all.

A few months ago, when the power switch of my computer's loudspeakers said goodbye, i told him to fix it. And that's something I could do blind.

He finally brought it to a shop, where they ripped him off and paid 300 baht. The speakers, very old ones, but a good sound were in the 800 baht range a long time ago.

The first time that I saw him doing homework was three days ago.

But here's the best example what a degree in Thailand is worth in Europe:

An English teacher from Europe was looking for a job for his wife, a high school English teacher, in Germany.

She's got all the fancy certificates, a BA from one of these Rajabhats, etc..

There're only two jobs he could find for her. One was at an Autobahn (highway) restaurant, the other one working as a maid at a hotel.

Then they decided that he'd continue working in Germany to have a higher pension.

Two weeks ago, this guy phoned me that he decided to move to Thailand and signed up at a catholic school in Ubon for 30 K/month.

He's got 22+ years of teaching English experience, has a license from his country, but didn't listen to look for a better paid job.

Som Nam Na.

[MaeJoMTB]

They all need to pass IELTs first.

The degree isn't important.

You could speak the Western language perfectly, but if you did not possess a recognized bachelor degree you could not gain entrance to a masters program and without a recognized masters degree you cannot gain entrance to a doctoral program. The degree is the basis for acceptance, the abilty to speak the school's language is secondary.

Without IELTs you won't be going.

You won't get a VISA either.

Edited May 21, 2015 by MaeJoMTB

[ggt]

It is not just Thailand...education is not what it used to be...while I was working in the Washington DC area...a high school graduate made the news when he sued the school system for handing him a diploma...sending him out into the work force...while he was unable to fill out a simple employment application without assistance...

[BudRight]

I was told by an employer in Singapore that Thai Uni degrees are not recognised outside Thailand

True and no wonder why ...

Do you have any idea of how many Thais with local degrees go on to graduate school in the UK, US, and Germany? When Western universities admit those Thais to graduate schools, they recognize the Thai degrees. Most employers have no idea which schools are accredited and are decent schools and which do not; they simply ask for a degree. That is why so many applicants claim a degree and have never graduated; you can simply buy degrees online.

There are quite near zero Thais in U.S. Graduate programs, for whatever reason.

Regarding the "pass everyone" thing, that is for the same reason that students cannot be divided within their year and placed in classes appropriate to their ability. Parents would insist on their kids being in the "highest" class in each subject. It's lousy parenting, which fortunately is also their motivation for insisting on western teachers regardless of teaching ability.

Edited May 21, 2015 by BudRight

[lostinisaan]

It is not just Thailand...education is not what it used to be...while I was working in the Washington DC area...a high school graduate made the news when he sued the school system for handing him a diploma...sending him out into the work force...while he was unable to fill out a simple employment application without assistance...

Did he finally roll a fat one with his diploma?

[slipperylobster]

It is because, whether or not they receive an "A" in math...(or failed the course).... both of these students (smart or marginal)...are going to overcharge you the same, anyways (when they get a job).

Edited May 21, 2015 by slipperylobster

[Wasima]

if the kids dont go to school and the parents don't pay the money the system fails

so keep the first happy

my daughter had to choose her field of 'study' English or Logistic, she chose the latter

I understood that because her english is a 1 out of 100, so I asked her why logistic, "ehh huh?"

she liked the terms I guess..

You could laugh about it if it wasn't just so very sad, for everyone...

why I pay anyway? parental thingy...and she needs a grade not to loose face..

God I am happy she is just as pretty as her mother, she is going to need it

sorry, don't mean to laugh... but this IS funny... and this topic comes at just the right time for me... because I was considering uprooting my son from high school here in SA (grade 8) in case we decide to move to LOS earlier than planned... but errmmm, I don't think so. I will carry on paying crazy school fees at the private school he's at right now. At least he can read, write, add and subtract, learned 2 extra languages besides our mother tongue which happens to be English.... along with a whole lot of other subjects that will come in handy one day.

But really Jumbo... this post is priceless!!

[masuk]

But can anyone tell me, why is that Thailand has this policy of passing every kid, regardless of what grades they get?

It's very clear and an unwritten law by the Ministry of Education Bangkok. Students from grade one up to grade 12 are NOT allowed to ask their teachers any questions.

All the students pass, because they believe that the teacher wasn't good, when kids fail. It's all about loss of face, with the tendency to stupidity.

Would the kids fail, they would really listen and learn. I had a girl who'd been an exchange student in Germany for one year and she spoke quite well. Her Thai German teacher at a well- known high school in Ubon always used the wrong words, wrong grammar, wrong sentence structure, etc....

The student who's much better than her teacher couldn't tell her how wrong her German was. We discussed that and she's really pissed off about her own country.

Would kids fail, more teachers could be employed, those with mental issues could attend a school for "special needs" and many problems of the whole educational problems could be solved.

Right now, students with mental problems "study" in regular classes and make teaching to an adventurous occupation. I had to "help" an Australian colleague, who almost got hit by a grade five student with a wooden chair.

The whole system is absurd and all involved act like all that buffalo dung would be "normal." It's not and it will never be. The hub of lost faces.

Reminds me of an English grammar book I was browsing through at a shopping mall yesterday.

I can't speak for the Thai part of it, but the English was so full of mistakes, it was absurd!

As for passing students irrespective of the marks, it happens in Indonesia at University level.

[gyrosman]

Well, to start with not every Frang can teach but your correct about the students And example when I taught for 3 years here I caught a student cheating on a Mid-term and gave her a zero. The Thai teacher ask me to re-test and I refused. I taught what they call special classes which their Mother and Father spend extra money for this service and I taught English, Math, Science, Chemistry, Social Studies, Health, and O.T.

I was borne in the slums of South Phila. and I succeeded in many levels. The point is you compromise principle for a pay check, I did not. I've been a professional educator for 28 years around the world.

Thailand will pay the price. My best opinion would be to fire 50% of the old Thai teachers with more than ten years working. The world is changing but these old teachers are a hamper.

Teach your child at home.

[recycler]

Nobody ever fails in Thailand, that's why you have to pay a full salary to the university educated electrical engineer that can't quote Ohm's law....

[dontoearth]

If you can't teach why are you upset the students can't learn?

[gerryBScot]

Regarding the "pass everyone" thing, that is for the same reason that students cannot be divided within their year and placed in classes appropriate to their ability. Parents would insist on their kids being in the "highest" class in each subject. It's lousy parenting, which fortunately is also their motivation for insisting on western teachers regardless of teaching ability.

This is an excellent point. In English being able to 'stream' students according to ability would make such an enormous difference - for instance a simple classification of 'beginner', 'intermediate' and 'advanced' would help everyone: teacher and students alike. In this way teachers could deliver teaching appropriate to learners' needs. What happens is the 'one-size-fits-all'approach, so you can get native speaker and beginner levels, and every level in between, in the same class and very few students are actually learning because it is virtually impossible to teach meaningful lessons when such extremes of differentiation are required.

I saw something hysterical a few days ago. 'I am a boy girl', just like that, was on the board and the teacher was trying to get the kids to introduce themselves and say if they were a boy or a girl and there were kids saying 'Hello I am Top, I am a boy girl' ......

[DavisH]

Students can and do have too repeat the grade in schools here, but it's up to the school to enforce the procedure, which can involve reteaching and retesting, especially if the student has failed 5 or more subjects. Each year we have one or two in the earlier grades who are asked to repeat the grade or leave the school. However, this is an EP and it's critical that the student has enough capability in english or most of their learning suffers. Most schools don't bother and just push kids through the system, some graduating m6 and not really knowing anything worthwhile. Not unsurprisingly, private universities pick up these kids and award them a worthless degree.

It's nor really different than overseas - kids are pushed up grades. But at least their report cards show the actual scores that the student got, and not a "50%" after their 'retest'.

[nakhonandy]

It has been mentioned, "what about the Thais that go to western universities"?

They have probably all been educated at expensive international schools.

This is not an option for the vast majority of Thais.

The only way to get really good education for your kids is to go this route, but it is pricey!

[smotherb]

They all need to pass IELTs first.

The degree isn't important.

You could speak the Western language perfectly, but if you did not possess a recognized bachelor degree you could not gain entrance to a masters program and without a recognized masters degree you cannot gain entrance to a doctoral program. The degree is the basis for acceptance, the abilty to speak the school's language is secondary.

Without IELTs you won't be going.

You won't get a VISA either.

Just how many degress do you have my friend? Good grades gets acceptance to universities, combined with sufficient funds gets visas. Many schools provide the language training as part of the curricula.

[tonypace02]

How can a teacher fail a student who quite possibly knows more than he/she does? Students are learning more from the media and internet than they are learning in the classroom.

[smotherb]

I was told by an employer in Singapore that Thai Uni degrees are not recognised outside Thailand

True and no wonder why ...

Do you have any idea of how many Thais with local degrees go on to graduate school in the UK, US, and Germany? When Western universities admit those Thais to graduate schools, they recognize the Thai degrees. Most employers have no idea which schools are accredited and are decent schools and which do not; they simply ask for a degree. That is why so many applicants claim a degree and have never graduated; you can simply buy degrees online.

There are quite near zero Thais in U.S. Graduate programs, for whatever reason.

Regarding the "pass everyone" thing, that is for the same reason that students cannot be divided within their year and placed in classes appropriate to their ability. Parents would insist on their kids being in the "highest" class in each subject. It's lousy parenting, which fortunately is also their motivation for insisting on western teachers regardless of teaching ability.

I know for a fact there were nine Thais in my doctoral program--and that was one school. Since I have already discounted what you say, how do I accept the rest of your statement?

[smotherb]

How can a teacher fail a student who quite possibly knows more than he/she does? Students are learning more from the media and internet than they are learning in the classroom.

That wuld be one hilarious statement if you did not believe that.

[SlyAnimal]

How the system works, or is meant to at least, is that students who fail subjects must then be given an opportunity to pass by their teacher. This usually involves doing some additional work of some kind (I've seen students doing manual labour, writing essays, writing lines, additional homework, special tutoring or taking re-tests). Once they complete the work, their grade is usually changed to 1.0, which everyone in Thailand recognizes as the equivalent of a failing grade.

Students who don't complete the additional work on time aren't allowed to progress to the next grade. Although in practice it just needs to be completed before they complete M3 or M6 (At least at my high school anyway). My wife's younger brother almost got caught out by this, whereby when he went to his graduation ceremony they just gave him an empty envelope as he still hadn't fixed his grade for 1 subject (But he fixed it before the deadline for M4 so hot his certificate later).

Many teachers do go easy on their students simply to avoid massive amounts of paperwork, I know I pass all students who have satisfactory attendance & have completed all assignments etc for this reason. Despite this I still fail a lot of students each semester, as many don't maintain 80% attendance.

The decent universities generally don't pass everyone, although many of the Rajabhats, lower quality universities & most of the private universities have a reputation of passing everyone. This reputation is so well known, that some job advertisements which require certain GPAs, will actually specify a higher GPA requirement if the applicants studied at x university.

Many westerners complain that students aren't held back if they fail. They sometimes are held back, but even in western countries you don't get held back simply for failing a subject.

I agree that many students pass when they should fail, but Thailand needs to take small steps. Simply failing 80% of all boys & 30% of all girls won't really achieve anything, instead they need to take small steps. Particularly as I believe that the students aren't the main cause of the problem, rather it's a combination of their teachers/teaching methods, parents, class sizes, school culture & of course the students themselves.

[BudRight]

They all need to pass IELTs first.

The degree isn't important.

You could speak the Western language perfectly, but if you did not possess a recognized bachelor degree you could not gain entrance to a masters program and without a recognized masters degree you cannot gain entrance to a doctoral program. The degree is the basis for acceptance, the abilty to speak the school's language is secondary.

Without IELTs you won't be going.

You won't get a VISA either.

Just how many degress do you have my friend? Good grades gets acceptance to universities, combined with sufficient funds gets visas. Many schools provide the language training as part of the curricula.

This is not very honest. U.S. Universities do offer remedial English classes but never for credit towards a degree.

[mango66]

This goes on into university as well, it's quite scary. I have met many so called professionals here over the years with degrees and I can't figure out how they passed. A bit worrying in the health profession.

in the health system,

they put the goodd ones for human med.

and the other for veterinary medic;

[smotherb]

MaejoMBT said, “Without IELTs you won't be going.
You won't get a VISA either.”

Smotherb said, “Just how many degress do you have my friend? Good grades gets acceptance to universities, combined with sufficient funds gets visas. Many schools provide the language training as part of the curricula.”

BudRight said, “This is not very honest. U.S. Universities do offer remedial English classes but never for credit towards a degree.”

So I am a liar? Didn't say the language training was for graduate credit, just part of the classes needed as prerequisites to meet academic requirements and earn the degree. The schools make extra money for the classes. It is a good business move.

[HenryC]

Like everything in the LOS, it is about face and false perceptions - window dressing reality. If anyone failed, the pupil, parents, teacher and even school board would lose face. Never going to happen.

[Inn Between]

I think it's becuse if they didn't there'd be millions and millons of pratom students but only a few hundred high school students and the government universities would be empty. Just poking a bit of fun at the Thai educaton system, but is reform of it really possible here?

[cgphuket]

Sounds like you got all your scams figured out. Glad your not my child's teacher.

Fink majority of LOS kids don't give a toss about making the effort to learn cos they know they will pass anyhoooo.

I hear some parents pay for a "pass" if that piece of paper is essential.

So many teachers use the classroom actually for teaching. But that's usually tutoring after school, using the schools' facilities. Going rate is 50 baht, per child and hour.

Make that times 45 and you take an extra 2250 baht home, five times a week.That's 12250 per week.

Make it to two hours a day and you're making around 100 K in one month, I mean next to your "low" salary.

And of course do they "suggest" that many of them need tutoring. What's surprising to me is that many really speak Tinglish in English lessons and they don't just sit down all day in class.

I could write some more details, but that would only cause many lost faces in a country full of lost faces. The educational hub that never became one.

5555555555555555555555555555+

[longstebe]

I think because a very large % would fail, so staff and school would look daft. "Her" son is as thick as a plank yet he passed everything, now twenty and can't speak English or Chinese yet passed. Crazy stuff.

Unfortunately this is bang on.

My missus passed her Chinese course, think she can muster up about 6 words.

[Bangkok Barry]

Fink majority of LOS kids don't give a toss about making the effort to learn cos they know they will pass anyhoooo.

I hear some parents pay for a "pass" if that piece of paper is essential.

And this definitely another thing to consider.

Do you think some kids get to a certain age and know full well what goes on with regards to everyone getting a pass and therefore just basically stop trying?

On another point, where does this everyone getting a pass end?

For example, say you're ill and have to visit a doctor.

Could it be that the doctor you visit may never have genuinely passed any exams?

But because of the system here, he's been able to go one and become a doctor, perhaps because his parents were wealthy enough to send him to medical school, rather than him every passing any exams or having any medical knowledge.

I mean, how dangerous would that be?

I've had experience of doctors here that convinced me they qualified by buying a white coat. Scary. In fact, one experience nearly killed me and my life was saved by finding the right hospital. Even there, in a private hospital, I discovered when my saline drip stopped and I rang the emergency bell that it didn't work and I had to go and find someone. They 'fixed' the bell and it failed to work again a few hours later. You can be certain that if someone died in that room because they couldn't call for help, the reason would never be revealed. Really scary stuff.

[Bangkok Barry]

I was told by an employer in Singapore that Thai Uni degrees are not recognised outside Thailand

True and no wonder why ...

Do you have any idea of how many Thais with local degrees go on to graduate school in the UK, US, and Germany? When Western universities admit those Thais to graduate schools, they recognize the Thai degrees. Most employers have no idea which schools are accredited and are decent schools and which do not; they simply ask for a degree. That is why so many applicants claim a degree and have never graduated; you can simply buy degrees online.

My experience is that if a Thai wants to go on and study in the US then they are made to sit an entrance exam, no matter what degree from Thailand they claim to have. These institutions are not stupid and are fully aware of the education standards and no-fail policy that Thailand employs. In the Real World they are made to start again from zero.