Tourist Shot, Killed On Phi Phi

[terry57]

We know the rules and thats all well and good. But you cant expect some 20 year old student in a drunken stupor to understand that "disrespecting" a thai guy can get you killed easily.

Shit all i knew about Thailand the first time was that "its totally awesome dude, they are all Buddhist's so its all smiles and love wherever you go"

Apparently the word is that its the safest place in the world. Yeah right.

Besides who here has never gone out of line when you have had to much to drink? Even the calmest and nicest of guys can throw a fit sometimes.

granted and well said my friend as i also was a loose mother when i first came here and still manage to turn a blinder on some times.

but cricky's mate,

i have always known that i must have my manners on full beam when dealing with the thai and any new country i travel in.

i leave my bad form for the farangs.

im in no way condoning this killing but simply dealing with fact and truth.

maybe theres some one out there who might learn something about the thai mind set and my information might save one persons life.

thats my real aim as there's 33,000 people lurking around this forum.

cheers

even young dudes should know not to play silly games in a new country and most people do know this.

Your information wouldn't save anyones life. Your full of crap and do anything to promote yourself.

Your yet another self appointed Thailand expert that doesn't really know anything.

I'd put more trust in statements made by Donz than anything you've said

im sure donz would love to read this

[steveromagnino]

Thai men are a bunch weak assed bastards who only know how to fight with help of their gang friends and if that doesn't work they just shoot you. One on one they are nothing. These men who commited this crime should all be executed. There is no excuse for what they did, a cold blooded murder.

in light of my comment about tolerance, I will be a 'bigger man than you' and not resort to petty name calling and insinuations.

Edited September 14, 2006 by steveromagnino

[Cpt_M0ney_Sh0t]

What a bunch of cowardly b*es. From the sounds of it there was a bit of a fight first. Why not just fight the kid like a man? They were "Thug" enough to pull the trigger but they couldn't fight him? Couldn't just beat him up or cut him a lil bit? That’s really really weak. I feel sad for the kid he got a seriously raw deal.

I worry about that sometimes myself. I have a hot temper and I curse VERY well in Thai, and I'm quick to do so. I'm not afraid of a fight, but you can't scrap a bullet no matter how bad you are. And I doubt many Thai kids these days came up with the same kind of street ethics I did where you put your hand skills to the test first.

My condolences to all that knew him.

[OneeyedJohn]

This is the ultimate price...die, cos u don't know the rules/culture.

I've had a revolver shoved in my face ( more than once ) here

in the village because of a drunken misunderstanding, but crikey, don't

they have any idea of the repercussions from committing murder ??

There's many ways to show your anger without killing someone.

do they think they will get away with it? All the 'life is cheap' comments

don't really explain much do they..u've only got one.

[Scott]

This is truly sad, however, I have learned not to take on the locals because you really don't know what awaits you. It could be the wrong person--a particularly volatile person, a particularly powerful person, a mafia member, etc. There is just no way of knowing. In one's own country and culture you have a chance, but here it's much more difficult. Add to that the cultural differences of losing face and you have a tradgedy in the making.

None-the-less, it is extremely sad for the victim, who did not, under any circumstances, deserve this punishment.

[terry57]

This is the ultimate price...die, cos u don't know the rules/culture.

I've had a revolver shoved in my face ( more than once ) here

in the village because of a drunken misunderstanding, but crikey, don't

they have any idea of the repercussions from committing murder ??

There's many ways to show your anger without killing someone.

do they think they will get away with it? All the 'life is cheap' comments

don't really explain much do they..u've only got one.

i would like to say that the " life is cheap " comment should at least make people aware of its meaning.

but the message of the comment " life is cheap " sends a very clear message to every body that reads its.

dont play games in thailand as you will lose.

i had a thai partner that used to love threating thai and falang with his gun.

guess what happenned ?

thai mafia put a few bullets in his brain box,

so it works both way's.

end of story.

[terry57]

This is truly sad, however, I have learned not to take on the locals because you really don't know what awaits you. It could be the wrong person--a particularly volatile person, a particularly powerful person, a mafia member, etc. There is just no way of knowing. In one's own country and culture you have a chance, but here it's much more difficult. Add to that the cultural differences of losing face and you have a tradgedy in the making.

None-the-less, it is extremely sad for the victim, who did not, under any circumstances, deserve this punishment.

your a very smart man my friend

respect to you.

[leftcross]

you cant blame the thais for using weapons cos they are physically much smaller than most of us. they need them to even up a fight, i'd do the same if someone who i knew i couldnt beat fair and square started on me.

in this case, it looks like a young drunken backpacker arrived in the country and annoyed a local over a ridiculous matter in the early hours of the morning.

did he deserve a bullet? of course not, but it sounds like he pushed all the right buttons to put somebody into a corner to do it. if the dj loses face in front of his co-workers and friends then things like this can happen.

[mark lamai]

interesting responses in this thread.

looking at the larger picture,

what kind of culture teaches its members that to kill another human being is an acceptable way of resolving a dispute?

all above warnings about being careful are so very true of course.

it just seems to me that even the foreigners are afraid to say that this kind of behaviour is neanderthal.

i am always looking for an influential Thai person who will speak out about how schizoid Thai 'culture" is.

like in pretending to be Buddhist and then voting back into power a man who gave carte-blanche to the police to go out and kill people (the "rid Thailand of drugs campaign") without any review or repercussions.

in my humble opinion,

there is no moral leadership in this country.

the Sangha has too many corrupted members.

Monks are there for giving out lottery numbers, for a price.

Politicians and business people are nearly all corrupt.

Academics are toothless tigers or in someones pocket.

News and TV are scared into compliance.

A country that cares so much about "Face",

and nearly everything it does only causes others to see that they being mentally primitive, thus losing respect.

i think it ok to criticize what one sees as immoral or stupid behaviour.

in many many countries on this planet, that poor chap would not be dead.

there is NO EXCUSE for this kind of behaviour.

and now with the new visa enforcements,

Thailand is becoming an international joke.

[qualtrough]

interesting responses in this thread.

looking at the larger picture,

what kind of culture teaches its members that to kill another human being is an acceptable way of resolving a dispute?

all above warnings about being careful are so very true of course.

it just seems to me that even the foreigners are afraid to say that this kind of behaviour is neanderthal.

i am always looking for an influential Thai person who will speak out about how schizoid Thai 'culture" is.

like in pretending to be Buddhist and then voting back into power a man who gave carte-blanche to the police to go out and kill people (the "rid Thailand of drugs campaign") without any review or repercussions.

in my humble opinion,

there is no moral leadership in this country.

the Sangha has too many corrupted members.

Monks are there for giving out lottery numbers, for a price.

Politicians and business people are nearly all corrupt.

Academics are toothless tigers or in someones pocket.

News and TV are scared into compliance.

A country that cares so much about "Face",

and nearly everything it does only causes others to see that they being mentally primitive, thus losing respect.

i think it ok to criticize what one sees as immoral or stupid behaviour.

in many many countries on this planet, that poor chap would not be dead.

there is NO EXCUSE for this kind of behaviour.

and now with the new visa enforcements,

Thailand is becoming an international joke.

Sorry, but in a lot of countries that tourists visit, including the USA, tourists sometimes get murdered. A good thing? No, of course not. If you think of all the hundreds of thousands of tourists that spend most of their time getting shit-faced in sleazy bars during their visit here the amazing thing is that more don't end up dead or injured. If that same number of people were to visit bars with strippers and hookers in the US the number would be many, many times higher. It seems to me that a lot of forum members bought into the Land of Smiles nonsense and get all outraged when a bit of reality creeps in. I have lived here for a long time, and sadly once in a while a tourist dies or is murdered. In my opinion the only reason there seems to be an increase in these events is primarily due to the fact that we have better and instant communication now via the Internet, and because the number of foreigners here has dramatically increased.

Edited September 15, 2006 by qualtrough

[mittheimp]

interesting responses in this thread.

looking at the larger picture,

what kind of culture teaches its members that to kill another human being is an acceptable way of resolving a dispute?

all above warnings about being careful are so very true of course.

it just seems to me that even the foreigners are afraid to say that this kind of behaviour is neanderthal.

i am always looking for an influential Thai person who will speak out about how schizoid Thai 'culture" is.

like in pretending to be Buddhist and then voting back into power a man who gave carte-blanche to the police to go out and kill people (the "rid Thailand of drugs campaign") without any review or repercussions.

in my humble opinion,

there is no moral leadership in this country.

the Sangha has too many corrupted members.

Monks are there for giving out lottery numbers, for a price.

Politicians and business people are nearly all corrupt.

Academics are toothless tigers or in someones pocket.

News and TV are scared into compliance.

A country that cares so much about "Face",

and nearly everything it does only causes others to see that they being mentally primitive, thus losing respect.

i think it ok to criticize what one sees as immoral or stupid behaviour.

in many many countries on this planet, that poor chap would not be dead.

there is NO EXCUSE for this kind of behaviour.

and now with the new visa enforcements,

Thailand is becoming an international joke.

I'm glad you agree that criticism is OK, so at least you wont take offence when i describe your comments as far too general, simplistic and pretty offensive to serve any purpose other than cheap abuse!

[terry57]

interesting responses in this thread.

looking at the larger picture,

what kind of culture teaches its members that to kill another human being is an acceptable way of resolving a dispute?

all above warnings about being careful are so very true of course.

it just seems to me that even the foreigners are afraid to say that this kind of behaviour is neanderthal.

i am always looking for an influential Thai person who will speak out about how schizoid Thai 'culture" is.

like in pretending to be Buddhist and then voting back into power a man who gave carte-blanche to the police to go out and kill people (the "rid Thailand of drugs campaign") without any review or repercussions.

in my humble opinion,

there is no moral leadership in this country.

the Sangha has too many corrupted members.

Monks are there for giving out lottery numbers, for a price.

Politicians and business people are nearly all corrupt.

Academics are toothless tigers or in someones pocket.

News and TV are scared into compliance.

A country that cares so much about "Face",

and nearly everything it does only causes others to see that they being mentally primitive, thus losing respect.

i think it ok to criticize what one sees as immoral or stupid behaviour.

in many many countries on this planet, that poor chap would not be dead.

there is NO EXCUSE for this kind of behaviour.

and now with the new visa enforcements,

Thailand is becoming an international joke.

Sorry, but in a lot of countries that tourists visit, including the USA, tourists sometimes get murdered. A good thing? No, of course not. If you think of all the hundreds of thousands of tourists that spend most of their time getting shit-faced in sleazy bars during their visit here the amazing thing is that more don't end up dead or injured. If that same number of people were to visit bars with strippers and hookers in the US the number would be many, many times higher. It seems to me that a lot of forum members bought into the Land of Smiles nonsense and get all outraged when a bit of reality creeps in. I have lived here for a long time, and sadly once in a while a tourist dies or is murdered. In my opinion the only reason there seems to be an increase in these events is primarily due to the fact that we have better and instant communication now via the Internet, and because the number of foreigners here has dramatically increased.

qualtrough,

your reply is 110 % spot bloody on mate.

some punters have body slammed my self for trying to explain a few home truths to people,

like having lots of respect for the locals and just behaving yourself when in a new country especially los.

of course the young dude did not deserve a bullet sandwich, but thats how it works in los, so just bloody behave your self please punters and its all sweet.

its not a very hard concept is it ?

aussie is suppost to be a civilised country and the amount of backpackers that have been killed here is quite scary and also many people that fight in bars have died at the end of a gun.

if you compare the aussie population 20 million, up against thailand 60 million, the murder rate of tourists would be very close indeed.

why can the vast majority of tourists come to thailand and have a cracking good time and the very small minority end up in a pine box ?

short answer is, that the small minority have zero respect for the locals and i have seen this very situation many times.

when i see the farang being disrespectful to the thai it sort of scares me a bit as i know what is about to happen and in the back of my mind hope that he'll walk away.

but cricky's mate,

there's some real cock head farangs running around los and frankly i have no time for them what so ever.

so thats why it dont shock me at all when a story like this hits the head lines.

ive never seen a thai attack a farang for no reason, but ive seen the thai's be very tolerant of a drunken pissed up farangs, untill he pushed it just that tad to far.

then its game on and said farang becomes unstuck in a big way.

why can i come here for for so many years and never ever once have a problem with the thai people ?

because i have lots of respect for the thai and i always play within the rules of this country.

cheers friends

[brahmburgers]

My wife however has quite strong views about this if a little simplistic/child like. She thinks if you speak bad about another person/their family, cannot control yourself when drunk then you can expect the worse to happen to you. You do not, as she says, know what is in that persons heart and you should always take care of ones self.

Sounds like good advice to me.

i'll go one step further,

it is a very brilliant and basic, but true bit of advice.

if the dude had read her words maybe he would be alive today.

actually im sure he would be alive today.

there is no excuse for cold-blooded cowardly murder. There is no amount of verbal offense that can excuse such a dastardly act. I learned long ago not to get overly offended by words. There are ways to deal with offense; shouting, swearing, threatening, ...ok, but shooting someone point-blank is despicable. Homo sapiens with their large brains do things that sea slugs would never do; namely murder their own kind in response to being offended. I hope the cowardly scuzzballs that did that act are locked up in solitary and left to rot.

[brahmburgers]

Thai men are a bunch weak assed bastards who only know how to fight with help of their gang friends and if that doesn't work they just shoot you. One on one they are nothing. These men who commited this crime should all be executed. There is no excuse for what they did, a cold blooded murder.

in light of my comment about tolerance, I will be a 'bigger man than you' and not resort to petty name calling and insinuations.

Thailand has no tradition of the 'fair fight.' In farang land it can happen (sometimes) that you get in to a fight, one guy wins, the other loses, there are some bruises and bruised egos and that's pretty much the end of it. Can't happen with a Thai. If you get in to a fight with a Thai, you're essentially fighting every Thai until you're defeated or killed. In other words, maybe you whip the first guy, but then an onlooker will jump you from behind, you whip him too, and some taxi drivers will jump in against you - even if they don't have a clue of what the fight's about. Even if you whip ass all over the neighborhood, there's a chance some thug will come along the next night and take you out. It's like 'prison rules' mentality; 'my group, right or wrong' ....with no statute of limitations.

[terry57]

Thai men are a bunch weak assed bastards who only know how to fight with help of their gang friends and if that doesn't work they just shoot you. One on one they are nothing. These men who commited this crime should all be executed. There is no excuse for what they did, a cold blooded murder.

in light of my comment about tolerance, I will be a 'bigger man than you' and not resort to petty name calling and insinuations.

Thailand has no tradition of the 'fair fight.' In farang land it can happen (sometimes) that you get in to a fight, one guy wins, the other loses, there are some bruises and bruised egos and that's pretty much the end of it. Can't happen with a Thai. If you get in to a fight with a Thai, you're essentially fighting every Thai until you're defeated or killed. In other words, maybe you whip the first guy, but then an onlooker will jump you from behind, you whip him too, and some taxi drivers will jump in against you - even if they don't have a clue of what the fight's about. Even if you whip ass all over the neighborhood, there's a chance some thug will come along the next night and take you out. It's like 'prison rules' mentality; 'my group, right or wrong' ....with no statute of limitations.

burgers,

you have explained the situation exactly how it is.

i'll bet a carton of singa that you behave yourself up in chaing rai because you know how it is over here and like to lead a peaceful life.

so its not a problem for you, or me in fact.

being a recalcitrant punter is very dangerous in any country and thailand ain't that far ahead of the U.S.A and even australia.

jes--us,

the U.S.A. is a frigging joke as its nearly law that you must own a gun and the nut cases running around shooting up schools and killing people is truly horrifying.

ain't heard of that yet in los. ( shooting up schools)

unless we talk about the muslims in the south but were not going there

the days of a good old punch up are becoming a very distant past thing here in perth.

you must be very careful before you pull someone on as there's a very good chance of getting knifed or a gun shoved up your nose.

violence is becoming commonplace and this is suppost to be a civilized country.

if you just end up in hospital your a lucky guy.

ive had the pleasure to be involved with some truly wonderful, honest and brilliant thai people in my years around los.

i just cant by into the retoric that thai's are savage killing machines as it is just untrue.

they will step up and deal with a troublesome person whether they be thai or farang and i have absolutely no problem with this concept at all.

cheers

[eljeque]

The Thai people are not doing themselves any favors.

thais love guns, theres a hit man on every corner, life is cheap in thailand.

moral of the story is : be a good punter and you will never have a problem.

lets turn this around shall we,

if the belgian was not a pissed up lunatic being disrespectful to the thai ,

he would still be alive today drinking a nice glass of lager.

if you know anything about thailand you will know this to be fact.

Nowhere has it been said that te Belgian was a "PISSED UP LUNATIC BEING DISRESPECTFUL TO THE THAI."

Where did you learn of this? As I have yet to read it. And, if the Thai man wants to try the "He was direspectful to me" line in court, let's see what the judge--someone who knows a great deal about Thailand, has to say.

There is no justification for shooting someone outside of a bar because of a disagreement. The Thais I have spoken to about this agree. They know a bit about Thailand as well.

[terry57]

The Thai people are not doing themselves any favors.

thais love guns, theres a hit man on every corner, life is cheap in thailand.

moral of the story is : be a good punter and you will never have a problem.

lets turn this around shall we,

if the belgian was not a pissed up lunatic being disrespectful to the thai ,

he would still be alive today drinking a nice glass of lager.

if you know anything about thailand you will know this to be fact.

Nowhere has it been said that te Belgian was a "PISSED UP LUNATIC BEING DISRESPECTFUL TO THE THAI."

Where did you learn of this? As I have yet to read it. And, if the Thai man wants to try the "He was direspectful to me" line in court, let's see what the judge--someone who knows a great deal about Thailand, has to say.

There is no justification for shooting someone outside of a bar because of a disagreement. The Thais I have spoken to about this agree. They know a bit about Thailand as well.

you obviously have not read all the posts on this topic , so please scroll backwards and re read them and you will understand the meaning of that statement.

you are light years away from my true meaning and its very clear if you choose to read the post properly.

im reading your post here and you just dont get anything at all that im trying to say do you ?

you sound like you have been in thailand 20 frigging seconds.

look i feel im wasting my time on you but here we go and i'll say it again for the 40th time and please bloody listen will you.

the law is extremely flexible in thailand and if one can near on buy his way out of anything.

one can buy his way out of a murder charge if one has the money by paying off corrupt police very easily.

this case is a bit different because it is too hard to cover up and the killers will more than likely die for it, which is ok by me as its a tragedy that the young guy ate a bullet.

of course there is no good reason to shoot this fellow, UNLESS YOU ARE A THAI AND HAVE LOST FACE BECAUSE OF THE YOUNG FELLOW LOSING HIS MANNERS.

can you understand that ? if not get yourself a book on the thai psyche, sit down and read the whole thing and you might learn something.

you say you have spoken to the thai's about shooting people over disagreements and they said your not allowed to do it.

now please,

what did you think they would say ?

oh yes, thats perfectly ok in los ?

its open season on drunken farang these days. get real please.

look mate,

this is a strait up case of the dangers of tackling the thai.

you just dont piss them off if you want to live a bit longer as they will shoot you in a nano second if you cause them to lose face.

listen and learn please and please dont misinterprate my posts.

[dog412]

he "dissed" my country, my religion , my president , MY SHOES! my goodness people, we are all being "criticized" all the time by someone. ANYONE trying to condone this madness is a neanderthal. if face is an excuse for this type of violence, or personal venting of "their own personal frustration", then it needs to be addressed as a undesirable "trait".

[terry57]

he "dissed" my country, my religion , my president , MY SHOES! my goodness people, we are all being "criticized" all the time by someone. ANYONE trying to condone this madness is a neanderthal. if face is an excuse for this type of violence, or personal venting of "their own personal frustration", then it needs to be addressed as a undesirable "trait".

yes,

the thais importance they place on this "saving face" pisses me off as it is truly neanderthal and very frustrating to other cultures.

it is an undesirable trait and i still do not know why it is so important to them. been trying to work that out for years.

all i know is that it is very real and the thais live and die by it, have always done so, ive seen them react to it and hope i dont experience it again to soon.

if anybody can explain why the thais place so much importance on it can they please put my troubled mind at rest.

cheers people

[loveandlaughter]

Terry you don't know what really happened and you seem to see everything as some Tarentino style vision, maybe these teens did too.

[eljeque]

To: terry57

You have 16 of the 80 posts here. That is one out of every five. This story seems to be close to your "heart."

***You stated below:

terry57:

sounds like the dude had seriously pissed off one of the locals.

****But this is not stated as a fact in the story.

Here is what the murderer said, although with your infinite wisdom of this land, I am sure that you know enough not to trust the words of a murderer.

****Wanchai the Murderer:

Wanchai said the Belgian was drinking heavily and the two got into an argument after Van Der Vaeren insulted a Thai woman at the bar,

terry57:

"its a tragedy that this drunken farang got a bullet sandwich for his bad manners. "

****Here you are, taking the word of the murderer for the reason for his murder.

terry57

"but punters must learn to treat thai with respect and dont get to pissed up."

****I have had lots of disagreements with Thais--about money as well, and none of them has ever made or shown any sign of wanting to harm me over this. It is not a STANDARD feature of the culture, but it does happen, and when it does, it appears in the news and on this forum. Hundreds of foreigners have hundreds of disagreements with Thais everyday and they do not get shot over it. This Thai man is the exception. If he weren't, then this would not be in the news.

terry57

"reason being, there's plenty of pissed up farang's with bad attitudes that need sorting out."

****It seems that you have jumped from "pissed off the locals" to "bad manners" to "bad attitudes" and need to be sorted out. Would you be so kind as to define "sorting out" for me and the rest of the board members? It certainly sounds like an unusual thing to say considering this case.

From the Translation:

Translation:

The police say : "the cause is a dispute that started inside the bar". The victim's family and friends do not agree, they have doubts about this. They say that the victim was not a "fighter", and always tries to cool down situations.

TV Channel 11:

Wanchai confessed saying that they had a fight before he shot the man in the head.

Belgian Newspaper:

Wanchai confessed saying that they had a fight before he shot the man in the head.

terry57

dont know about that my friend as if you spat in my face and called my beloved mother a dirty monkey whore id frigging blow you away in 2 seconds.

and im a placid aussie fella.

**** No, I beg to differ. You are not a placid Australian, if you behave in anyway like you write.

terry57

its only the cock heads who have trouble in thailand and 99% of the time its there own doing, like our pissed up friend here.

****No, it is not only the "cock heads." Lots of normal people who mind their own business get killed and stolen from here. (Are you familiar with the policeman and the backpackers in Kanchanaburi?) And, there is as of yet any evidence or factual references that this was of the young Belgian man's own doing. The only one saying it was has been the murderer, Wanchai and you.

terry57

ive never seen a thai attack a farang for no reason,

****Then you need to get out more. People from this country and foreign countries are attacked here and elsewhere for no reason. Will your next argument be concerning the European women who have been raped here? Was this their own doing? Were the Thais "pushed too far?"

terry57

the U.S.A. is a frigging joke as its nearly law that you must own a gun and the nut cases running around shooting up schools and killing people is truly horrifying.

****The US does not have any laws which state that citizens must own a gun. It is not "nearly a law" either.

terry57

you obviously have not read all the posts on this topic,

****I have read each and every one of the posts on this topic while paying special attention to your posts.

terry57

so please scroll backwards and re read them and you will understand the meaning of that statement.

****I understand the meaning of all of your statements. The rest of the board members do as well.

terry57

you are light years away from my true meaning and its very clear if you choose to read the post properly.

****Please allow me and the rest of the board members to know your TRUE MEANING. You have basically shown yourself to be an apologist for the behavior of the murderer and in SO MANY WORDS showed us all that you believe that the young Belgian man got what he had coming and that he was the one who was out of line.

im reading your post here and you just dont get anything at all that im trying to say do you ?

****I am getting a lot of what you are saying. What is showing right through your words is your sanctimonious belief in yourself and your unequaled illiteracy that would put your fellow Aussies to shame. My apologies to the rest of the Australian community.

you sound like you have been in thailand 20 frigging seconds.

*****I have lived here 8 1/2 of the past 16 years.

I have bought and sold 5 houses.

I earn over 70,000 on the local economy without a foreign company sponsoring me and have nothing to do with bars.

I speak the language very well.

I have a dozen articles published on the country in FEER, Time Asia, Bangkok Post, The Nation, etc.

I have two books published on the country. One is a best seller here and the other one has just started selling in the USA. The new one in the USA has already been translated into French.

I have been here a few more than 20 seconds.

terry57

look i feel im wasting my time on you but here we go and i'll say it again for the 40th time and please bloody listen will you.

****You are not wasting your time with me, but I do feel that I have wasted just about enough time with you. And, that was your 13th post, not your 40th.

terry57

the law is extremely flexible in thailand and if one can near on buy his way out of anything.

****The law is not as flexible as you are trying to make it appear in a case like this. Buying your way out of something is very common, but not within the law. It is certainly within the system, but not within the law. And, in this case, Wanchai will not be buying his way out of anything, so your gibberish is once again irrelevant.

terry57

one can buy his way out of a murder charge if one has the money by paying off corrupt police very easily.

this case is a bit different because it is too hard to cover up and the killers will more than likely die for it, which is ok by me as its a tragedy that the young guy ate a bullet.

****Then why did you bother mentioning it if this case is different? Are you trying to show us all your foolishness on a variety of topics.

terry57

of course there is no good reason to shoot this fellow, UNLESS YOU ARE A THAI AND HAVE LOST FACE BECAUSE OF THE YOUNG FELLOW LOSING HIS MANNERS.

****Once again, the only one we have saying "THIS YOUNG FELLOW LOST HIS MANNERS," is the murderer, Wanchai. Now, there is little doubt that they had a some form of a disagreement, but you continue stating that the victim behaved in a way which warranted the response he received.

terry57

can you understand that ? if not get yourself a book on the thai psyche, sit down and read the whole thing and you might learn something.

****Which books would you recommend? Do any of these esteemed books which you recommend have a special section on Aussie Apologists?

terry57

you say you have spoken to the thai's about shooting people over disagreements and they said your not allowed to do it.

****NO, that is not what I said. I said that I had spoken to Thais about this case, and that they were embarrassed over it. They were embarrassed over the behavior of their countryman. Even if this young man was obnoxious beyond all belief, it would still be unusual for him to get shot over. There are a very large number of boisterous, vile drunken men in Pattaya every day, insulting everyone in their path, and only occasionally does one of them get shot. It is rare because IT IS NOT STANDARD BEHAVIOR to shoot someone who insults or ridicules you in this country. If it were, there would be a dozen foreigners being shot every day in Pattaya and this would not be big news here.

terry57

now please,

what did you think they would say ? oh yes, thats perfectly ok in los?

****As none of them has ever shot anyone from any country, they just might be the placid type. I should meet more "real manly types" like you. Whether you want to believe it or not, every Thai does not run for a gun after a disagreement. Thais, just like people in my country, are perfectly capable of having a fight, yelling, throwing things at each other, and then leaving after they have had their go at each other.

terry57

its open season on drunken farang these days. get real please.

look mate,

this is a strait up case of the dangers of tackling the thai.

you just dont piss them off if you want to live a bit longer as they will shoot you in a nano second if you cause them to lose face.

****A percentage of them will, as in this case. And, I appreciate the advice.

terry57

listen and learn please and please dont misinterprate my posts.

****Do I interpret "misinterprate," as misinterpret?

****If you want to make friends and influence people, get a dictionary or spell check and display your views for your own eyes to see on a Microsoft Word Document first prior to showing it to the rest of us. Then, correct all of the errors such as the lack of capitalization, apostrophes, commas and spelling errors. Then, if you have any energy left, work on content.

****If you want to show some respect to the people of Thailand, then spell the name of this Kingdom “Thailand.” Please note that the letter “T” is a capital.

****When is Australia going to start administering IQ tests prior to issuing passports?

[terry57]

Terry you don't know what really happened and you seem to see everything as some Tarentino style vision, maybe these teens did too.

you are completely right my friend as i dont know exactly what happened.

but i know enough to know why the poor kid got bloody shot.

it was reported that he was pissed up and got into an altercation with the thai disc jocky at 2.00 am in the morning and said some bad stuff to a thai girl.

thats all it takes here to get a bullet for your trouble.

end of story.

[sriracha john]

To: terry57

You have 16 of the 80 posts here. That is one out of every five. This story seems to be close to your "heart."

***You stated below:

terry57:

sounds like the dude had seriously pissed off one of the locals.

****But this is not stated as a fact in the story.

Here is what the murderer said, although with your infinite wisdom of this land, I am sure that you know enough not to trust the words of a murderer.

****Wanchai the Murderer:

Wanchai said the Belgian was drinking heavily and the two got into an argument after Van Der Vaeren insulted a Thai woman at the bar,

terry57:

"its a tragedy that this drunken farang got a bullet sandwich for his bad manners. "

****Here you are, taking the word of the murderer for the reason for his murder.

terry57

"but punters must learn to treat thai with respect and dont get to pissed up."

****I have had lots of disagreements with Thais--about money as well, and none of them has ever made or shown any sign of wanting to harm me over this. It is not a STANDARD feature of the culture, but it does happen, and when it does, it appears in the news and on this forum. Hundreds of foreigners have hundreds of disagreements with Thais everyday and they do not get shot over it. This Thai man is the exception. If he weren't, then this would not be in the news.

terry57

"reason being, there's plenty of pissed up farang's with bad attitudes that need sorting out."

****It seems that you have jumped from "pissed off the locals" to "bad manners" to "bad attitudes" and need to be sorted out. Would you be so kind as to define "sorting out" for me and the rest of the board members? It certainly sounds like an unusual thing to say considering this case.

From the Translation:

Translation:

The police say : "the cause is a dispute that started inside the bar". The victim's family and friends do not agree, they have doubts about this. They say that the victim was not a "fighter", and always tries to cool down situations.

TV Channel 11:

Wanchai confessed saying that they had a fight before he shot the man in the head.

Belgian Newspaper:

Wanchai confessed saying that they had a fight before he shot the man in the head.

terry57

dont know about that my friend as if you spat in my face and called my beloved mother a dirty monkey whore id frigging blow you away in 2 seconds.

and im a placid aussie fella.

**** No, I beg to differ. You are not a placid Australian, if you behave in anyway like you write.

terry57

its only the cock heads who have trouble in thailand and 99% of the time its there own doing, like our pissed up friend here.

****No, it is not only the "cock heads." Lots of normal people who mind their own business get killed and stolen from here. (Are you familiar with the policeman and the backpackers in Kanchanaburi?) And, there is as of yet any evidence or factual references that this was of the young Belgian man's own doing. The only one saying it was has been the murderer, Wanchai and you.

terry57

ive never seen a thai attack a farang for no reason,

****Then you need to get out more. People from this country and foreign countries are attacked here and elsewhere for no reason. Will your next argument be concerning the European women who have been raped here? Was this their own doing? Were the Thais "pushed too far?"

terry57

the U.S.A. is a frigging joke as its nearly law that you must own a gun and the nut cases running around shooting up schools and killing people is truly horrifying.

****The US does not have any laws which state that citizens must own a gun. It is not "nearly a law" either.

terry57

you obviously have not read all the posts on this topic,

****I have read each and every one of the posts on this topic while paying special attention to your posts.

terry57

so please scroll backwards and re read them and you will understand the meaning of that statement.

****I understand the meaning of all of your statements. The rest of the board members do as well.

terry57

you are light years away from my true meaning and its very clear if you choose to read the post properly.

****Please allow me and the rest of the board members to know your TRUE MEANING. You have basically shown yourself to be an apologist for the behavior of the murderer and in SO MANY WORDS showed us all that you believe that the young Belgian man got what he had coming and that he was the one who was out of line.

im reading your post here and you just dont get anything at all that im trying to say do you ?

****I am getting a lot of what you are saying. What is showing right through your words is your sanctimonious belief in yourself and your unequaled illiteracy that would put your fellow Aussies to shame. My apologies to the rest of the Australian community.

you sound like you have been in thailand 20 frigging seconds.

*****I have lived here 8 1/2 of the past 16 years.

I have bought and sold 5 houses.

I earn over 70,000 on the local economy without a foreign company sponsoring me and have nothing to do with bars.

I speak the language very well.

I have a dozen articles published on the country in FEER, Time Asia, Bangkok Post, The Nation, etc.

I have two books published on the country. One is a best seller here and the other one has just started selling in the USA. The new one in the USA has already been translated into French.

I have been here a few more than 20 seconds.

terry57

look i feel im wasting my time on you but here we go and i'll say it again for the 40th time and please bloody listen will you.

****You are not wasting your time with me, but I do feel that I have wasted just about enough time with you. And, that was your 13th post, not your 40th.

terry57

the law is extremely flexible in thailand and if one can near on buy his way out of anything.

****The law is not as flexible as you are trying to make it appear in a case like this. Buying your way out of something is very common, but not within the law. It is certainly within the system, but not within the law. And, in this case, Wanchai will not be buying his way out of anything, so your gibberish is once again irrelevant.

terry57

one can buy his way out of a murder charge if one has the money by paying off corrupt police very easily.

this case is a bit different because it is too hard to cover up and the killers will more than likely die for it, which is ok by me as its a tragedy that the young guy ate a bullet.

****Then why did you bother mentioning it if this case is different? Are you trying to show us all your foolishness on a variety of topics.

terry57

of course there is no good reason to shoot this fellow, UNLESS YOU ARE A THAI AND HAVE LOST FACE BECAUSE OF THE YOUNG FELLOW LOSING HIS MANNERS.

****Once again, the only one we have saying "THIS YOUNG FELLOW LOST HIS MANNERS," is the murderer, Wanchai. Now, there is little doubt that they had a some form of a disagreement, but you continue stating that the victim behaved in a way which warranted the response he received.

terry57

can you understand that ? if not get yourself a book on the thai psyche, sit down and read the whole thing and you might learn something.

****Which books would you recommend? Do any of these esteemed books which you recommend have a special section on Aussie Apologists?

terry57

you say you have spoken to the thai's about shooting people over disagreements and they said your not allowed to do it.

****NO, that is not what I said. I said that I had spoken to Thais about this case, and that they were embarrassed over it. They were embarrassed over the behavior of their countryman. Even if this young man was obnoxious beyond all belief, it would still be unusual for him to get shot over. There are a very large number of boisterous, vile drunken men in Pattaya every day, insulting everyone in their path, and only occasionally does one of them get shot. It is rare because IT IS NOT STANDARD BEHAVIOR to shoot someone who insults or ridicules you in this country. If it were, there would be a dozen foreigners being shot every day in Pattaya and this would not be big news here.

terry57

now please,

what did you think they would say ? oh yes, thats perfectly ok in los?

****As none of them has ever shot anyone from any country, they just might be the placid type. I should meet more "real manly types" like you. Whether you want to believe it or not, every Thai does not run for a gun after a disagreement. Thais, just like people in my country, are perfectly capable of having a fight, yelling, throwing things at each other, and then leaving after they have had their go at each other.

terry57

its open season on drunken farang these days. get real please.

look mate,

this is a strait up case of the dangers of tackling the thai.

you just dont piss them off if you want to live a bit longer as they will shoot you in a nano second if you cause them to lose face.

****A percentage of them will, as in this case. And, I appreciate the advice.

terry57

listen and learn please and please dont misinterprate my posts.

****Do I interpret "misinterprate," as misinterpret?

****If you want to make friends and influence people, get a dictionary or spell check and display your views for your own eyes to see on a Microsoft Word Document first prior to showing it to the rest of us. Then, correct all of the errors such as the lack of capitalization, apostrophes, commas and spelling errors. Then, if you have any energy left, work on content.

****If you want to show some respect to the people of Thailand, then spell the name of this Kingdom “Thailand.” Please note that the letter “T” is a capital.

****When is Australia going to start administering IQ tests prior to issuing passports?

crikey.... that's top shelf stuff...

[serpentine]

Gun culture is out of control in the southern islands.

[terry57]

eljeque,

have you been drinking tonight my friend ? as there's something not quite right about you as your still do not getting what im on about are you ?

look mate,

where do i start with you ? its getting quite difficult for me at this stage as im gob smacked at your on going retoric and truly dont understand your reasoning as id thought id made myself crystal clear.

its worse now, as you have told me your history and you of all people should know better and understand my true meaning but i dont give up that easily and i'll have another crack.

you are very observant, as i do have a personal interest in this as i dont like to see young people die and im only trying to explain things to the newbies coming to los.

i had a thai partner that used to wave guns around at falang and the thai people.

anyway the mafia put a few caps in his brain, so i know how touchy things can be with them.

hence my advice to the farang to not mess with them.

thats not a very hard concept to grasp is it ?

thank you and moving right along.

ive had very peaceful and decent thai business friends who ive known long term absolutely abused , slagged off and disrespected by drunken farang and im sorry but i have nothing but contempt for these sort of people.

i refuse to step up for them as they make there own problems and must take responsibility for there actions and considering there in a new country only makes there actions worse.

sorry fella but thats my true feelings on the drunken disrespectful farang issue . ad nauseam

very simple and not complicated at all.

your reply to me smacks of gutter journalism as you have taken bights out of every one of my posts and this is not a fair and accurate way for people to judge my posts.

but eljeque,

the punters have more smarts than you give them credit for as they can read my posts in there entirety and will understand my posts true meaning.

unlike yourself who continues to not accept what my true meaning is.

wake up will you please.

your sounding very silly for an educated man and should try harder in the future.

you mention that i am an illiterate australian and this is a mind boggling observation as i think i am very literate but i am sorry that i mispelled misinterpret.

not too bad for all of those posts one would think, and the other punters are in for a grilling if you attack me for one mistake.

a very cheap shot and not related to our discussion at all.

grasping at straws if you like.

as far as capitals go, give it a rest mate as im on a forum and not writing a book.

you might have written a few books and im dying to read one just to see what your logic on the said subjects are.

could be real waccy id say and ill track one down and give it a crack.

no offence ment at all and only an observation.

B.T.W, in the future you must only speak for yourself and not try to be big brother speaking for all punters.

punters have there own opinion and can debate this issue with me if they wish.

im always up for a good natured debate especially on a very important issue as this.

you have no right to try and bring them onto your side without firstly consulting with said punters.

another indication that you are screaming for back up.

you will notice that i only ever speaks for myself and i never try and convince any one that i speak for other people.

everything i say on this forum is in my opinion only and you should try hard to stick to that ethos.

any way eljeque,

im enjoying very much debating with you and await eagerly for your next post but please step it up a bit and give me a challenge.

B.T.W please do not take any of this post personally as we are only debating this subject even though we are a long distance apart in our opinions .

cheers

[terry57]

hello S.J.,

cricky's mate,

you are really starting to warm to me arn't you ?

at last you have snapped out of your ever present depression, finally seen light and have come to the realisation that my posts are truly "TOP SHELF STUFF"

your a bleeding, cracker, ripping, top of the ladder sort of fella S. J.

but im sorry to inform you S.J. there's some punters out there who think the exact opposite

off you go mate and take your medication.

cheers fella

[Gonzo the Face]

Bit off topic ,,,,, maybe,,,,,,,,,, as there seems to be hefty Aussie input on this thread, heard a group of Aussies last night use the wordl... can someone describe or give a definition of the word "Yabo" [sp]

???

[Backpack_thailand]

being a recalcitrant punter is very dangerous in any country and thailand ain't that far ahead of the U.S.A and even australia.

What does recalcitrant mean?

[lannarebirth]

Bit off topic ,,,,, maybe,,,,,,,,,, as there seems to be hefty Aussie input on this thread, heard a group of Aussies last night use the wordl... can someone describe or give a definition of the word "Yabo" [sp]

???

According to the Australian / English dictionary, a "yobbo" is an uncouth person or country hick.

[terry57]

being a recalcitrant punter is very dangerous in any country and thailand ain't that far ahead of the U.S.A and even australia.

What does recalcitrant mean?

" RECALCITRANT" = [adjectitive] = uncooperative, intractable, insubordinate, defiant, rebellious, difficult, awkward.

in just strait out plain street language relevant to this thread,

it means = a pissed up horrible, disrespectful tourist that will most probly die at the end of some thais gun.