Solar Power

[Issangeorge]

Thank you Crossy that is a great table, and Arjen thank you. I have a couple of questions for you, if you don't mind. What kind of batteries do you use, what is the cost and where do you buy them. Thanks.

[GinBoy2]

Amorn Solar's biggest single-phase system (5.4kW) is 176,000 Baht but that's plus installation http://www.amornsolar.com/index.php?mo=18&display=view_single&pid=1559236

Getting in the right ball park

This was one of the best value packages I've seen.

Contacted them this morning, but it does appear that installation is extra. Waiting for them to get back to me with a date for a site inspection. I'll update everyone when I know some more details

[Issangeorge]

Thanks Arjen, GinBoy2, as I have said before if you can sell your extra electricity back to PEA, at the spot grid prices then you don't have to worry about storage and solar is becomes cheaper than buying from the grid.

[IMHO]

Guys, when you're calculating your ROI/payback under the Solar Rooftop program, bear in mind one thing:

They are not being altruistic when they offer you 6.85 Baht/unit with a 25 year contract.

i.e. You should expect that the tariffs we pay for electricity, will at some time in the next 25 years, be a lot more than 6.85 Baht/unit

[Issangeorge]

Guys, when you're calculating your ROI/payback under the Solar Rooftop program, bear in mind one thing:

They are not being altruistic when they offer you 6.85 Baht/unit with a 25 year contract.

i.e. You should expect that the tariffs we pay for electricity, will at some time in the next 25 years, be a lot more than 6.85 Baht/unit

If they are really offering ฿6.85 a kWh, that's a return on investment of over 15% guaranteed for 25 years, where can I sign up?

[IMHO]

Guys, when you're calculating your ROI/payback under the Solar Rooftop program, bear in mind one thing:

They are not being altruistic when they offer you 6.85 Baht/unit with a 25 year contract.

i.e. You should expect that the tariffs we pay for electricity, will at some time in the next 25 years, be a lot more than 6.85 Baht/unit

If they are really offering ฿6.85 a kWh, that's a return on investment of over 15% guaranteed for 25 years, where can I sign up?

At the links already provided

How will you feel about selling your generated power for 6.85 Baht, when your usage costs > 6.85 Baht though? and you have a supply contract that won't allow you to modify the system to self consumption?

They are obviously projecting that normal meter rates will hit above 6.85 Baht sometime within the next few years I guess - if they were being altrusitic, the sell rate would be well North of 10 Baht/unit the way I see it

Edited June 16, 2015 by IMHO

[Crossy]

Indeed IMHO, what are the penalties for breaking the supply contract (reduced or no output), maybe your system is damaged and you can't afford to repair?

I'm quite happy to sell my power at the same rate as I buy it (either officially or unofficially by spinning the meter backwards) as I can stop selling any time I want.

If it's official via a sell meter I can still make money by exporting more than I use (which you can't do if you spin the meter backwards).

[GinBoy2]

Little update:

Just had the installers come to do a site survey based on the Amorn Solar package we were talking about before.

So installation is ฿64,000 and ฿176,000 for the panels and inverter, grand total ฿240K. Installation takes 2 days. Amorn don't do the installation, they are only the wholesaler and they refer you to another company, Baan Solar Cell. Seem a pretty professional outfit, probably not the cheapest out there, but not outrageous IMHO and if you are investing in this you want it done right.

At this point for me at least this is a done deal. I use a lot of electricity and the monthly savings are huge compared with the meagre interest I would get on the 240K sat in the bank for years on end.

When I get the package from Amorn and the install starts I'll post some pictures and let y'all know how it goes

www.baansolarcell.co.th

[Issangeorge]

First I correct myself, I think the return would be 12%, still not a bad return. Second, I agree with Crossy, I would be happy to sell it to the grid at their spot rate, and buy it back at their spot rate, thus basically using the grid as a storage unit. Third unless I'm really messing up the figures, which is very possible, solar today is cheaper than grid, if the grid price went up to ฿6.85 I would borrow the money and install solar, my roof is the perfect size orientation and pitch, right now the borrowing costs makes it about a toss up, maybe a little more expensive, but with a power increase of over ฿2.5 a kWh there would be no contest.

Edited June 16, 2015 by Issangeorge

[Crossy]

Absolutely Ginboy2 we want every dirty little detail (start a new thread).

[Issangeorge]

Little update:

Just had the installers come to do a site survey based on the Amorn Solar package we were talking about before.

So installation is ฿64,000 and ฿176,000 for the panels and inverter, grand total ฿240K. Installation takes 2 days. Amorn don't do the installation, they are only the wholesaler and they refer you to another company, Baan Solar Cell. Seem a pretty professional outfit, probably not the cheapest out there, but not outrageous IMHO and if you are investing in this you want it done right.

At this point for me at least this is a done deal. I use a lot of electricity and the monthly savings are huge compared with the meagre interest I would get on the 240K sat in the bank for years on end.

When I get the package from Amorn and the install starts I'll post some pictures and let y'all know how it goes

www.baansolarcell.co.th

GinBoy2, it's great to have a poster actually doing this. We will be able to get real live information, instead of speculative. Do you have any idea if they will finance a system?

[GinBoy2]

Little update:

Just had the installers come to do a site survey based on the Amorn Solar package we were talking about before.

So installation is ฿64,000 and ฿176,000 for the panels and inverter, grand total ฿240K. Installation takes 2 days. Amorn don't do the installation, they are only the wholesaler and they refer you to another company, Baan Solar Cell. Seem a pretty professional outfit, probably not the cheapest out there, but not outrageous IMHO and if you are investing in this you want it done right.

At this point for me at least this is a done deal. I use a lot of electricity and the monthly savings are huge compared with the meagre interest I would get on the 240K sat in the bank for years on end.

When I get the package from Amorn and the install starts I'll post some pictures and let y'all know how it goes

www.baansolarcell.co.th

GinBoy2, it's great to have a poster actually doing this. We will be able to get real live information, instead of speculative. Do you have any idea if they will finance a system?

Sorry no idea about financing, I'm doing this with cash so financing didn't come up

[IMHO]

Little update:

Just had the installers come to do a site survey based on the Amorn Solar package we were talking about before.

So installation is ฿64,000 and ฿176,000 for the panels and inverter, grand total ฿240K. Installation takes 2 days. Amorn don't do the installation, they are only the wholesaler and they refer you to another company, Baan Solar Cell. Seem a pretty professional outfit, probably not the cheapest out there, but not outrageous IMHO and if you are investing in this you want it done right.

At this point for me at least this is a done deal. I use a lot of electricity and the monthly savings are huge compared with the meagre interest I would get on the 240K sat in the bank for years on end.

When I get the package from Amorn and the install starts I'll post some pictures and let y'all know how it goes

www.baansolarcell.co.th

Congrats on making the jump

Will you be doing it under the Solar Rooftop scheme, or just spinning the meter backwards?

Either way, I have questions

[IMHO]

Indeed IMHO, what are the penalties for breaking the supply contract (reduced or no output), maybe your system is damaged and you can't afford to repair?

I have asked this question a few times now, and have never got a clear answer. The best I got was "you'd be in breach of contract" - what that translates into as far as penalties go, I have no idea.

The way I see it, the contract doesn't even allow for normal cell degradation. It's awfully ambiguous. Maybe phase 2 has a clearer contract though? I just haven't had time to look at it

[GinBoy2]

Little update:

Just had the installers come to do a site survey based on the Amorn Solar package we were talking about before.

So installation is ฿64,000 and ฿176,000 for the panels and inverter, grand total ฿240K. Installation takes 2 days. Amorn don't do the installation, they are only the wholesaler and they refer you to another company, Baan Solar Cell. Seem a pretty professional outfit, probably not the cheapest out there, but not outrageous IMHO and if you are investing in this you want it done right.

At this point for me at least this is a done deal. I use a lot of electricity and the monthly savings are huge compared with the meagre interest I would get on the 240K sat in the bank for years on end.

When I get the package from Amorn and the install starts I'll post some pictures and let y'all know how it goes

www.baansolarcell.co.th

Congrats on making the jump

Will you be doing it under the Solar Rooftop scheme, or just spinning the meter backwards?

Either way, I have questions

In my case I don't think the Solar Roof scheme actually buys me anything, since the estimate for power generator is ~฿3-4K/Month, but my usage usage is across a year is between 4-10K฿, dependent on the season.

So i think I would rarely, if ever, be a net exporter of power to the grid

[IMHO]

Little update:

Just had the installers come to do a site survey based on the Amorn Solar package we were talking about before.

So installation is ฿64,000 and ฿176,000 for the panels and inverter, grand total ฿240K. Installation takes 2 days. Amorn don't do the installation, they are only the wholesaler and they refer you to another company, Baan Solar Cell. Seem a pretty professional outfit, probably not the cheapest out there, but not outrageous IMHO and if you are investing in this you want it done right.

At this point for me at least this is a done deal. I use a lot of electricity and the monthly savings are huge compared with the meagre interest I would get on the 240K sat in the bank for years on end.

When I get the package from Amorn and the install starts I'll post some pictures and let y'all know how it goes

www.baansolarcell.co.th

Congrats on making the jump

Will you be doing it under the Solar Rooftop scheme, or just spinning the meter backwards?

Either way, I have questions

In my case I don't think the Solar Roof scheme actually buys me anything, since the estimate for power generator is ~฿3-4K/Month, but my usage usage is across a year is between 4-10K฿, dependent on the season.

So i think I would rarely, if ever, be a net exporter of power to the grid

OK cool, so if you're just going to be spinning the meter backwards (IMHO, preferable in the long term*), I'm curious what needs to happen as far as approvals, inspections, and/or declarations to the PEA/MEA.

This, I have never been able to get a straight answer on - everyone I've talked to who claims they can do it all legit, will never go into any form of detail on requirements - like it's some kind of trade secret that you only discover after you've signed a contract with them

*Unless there's a clause in the Solar Rooftop contract that says I'm not obligated to supply.

Edited June 16, 2015 by IMHO

[Crossy]

Our local PEA office has no ruddy clue either, when we first investigated solar a couple of years back they just told us to inform them we had solar. No indication of how we should do that or anything.

Since this may actually happen this time (cash flow is rather better) I'll give it another go.

[IMHO]

Our local PEA office has no ruddy clue either, when we first investigated solar a couple of years back they just told us to inform them we had solar. No indication of how we should do that or anything.

Since this may actually happen this time (cash flow is rather better) I'll give it another go.

Well, at least your PEA understood what you wanted to do .. my local PEA guys just had funny looks on their faces when I said I wanted to export power to the grid, which of course ended in the predictable "mai dai" because they were clueless

Edited June 16, 2015 by IMHO

[GinBoy2]

Now I dont have a definitive answer to this; but I asked the guy from Baan Solar this question this morning. he told me as part of the installation they make a declaration to PEA detailing the system and the interconnectivity to the grid. He didn't seem to consider this to be as big a deal as I thought it was.

I'll ask the same question this afternoon when I make I call AmornSolar to place the order

[IMHO]

 

Now I dont have a definitive answer to this; but I asked the guy from Baan Solar this question this morning. he told me as part of the installation they make a declaration to PEA detailing the system and the interconnectivity to the grid. He didn't seem to consider this to be as big a deal as I thought it was.

I'll ask the same question this afternoon when I make I call AmornSolar to place the order

 

If you were able to snap a photo of the doc to be submitted (blank out personal info) that would be even better - I'm curious to know if it's a pre-existing PEA/MEA form, or some type of self written declaration. If I can get a form#, maybe I can help my PEA guys understand something too

[GinBoy2]

 

Now I dont have a definitive answer to this; but I asked the guy from Baan Solar this question this morning. he told me as part of the installation they make a declaration to PEA detailing the system and the interconnectivity to the grid. He didn't seem to consider this to be as big a deal as I thought it was.

I'll ask the same question this afternoon when I make I call AmornSolar to place the order

 

If you were able to snap a photo of the doc to be submitted (blank out personal info) that would be even better - I'm curious to know if it's a pre-existing PEA/MEA form, or some type of self written declaration. If I can get a form#, maybe I can help my PEA guys understand something too

So playmates, everything is done. The panels and inverter will be delivered on 6/20. Since I'm going to be in BKK until 7/1 installation is planned for 7/2-3. I'll get a snapshot of the declaration from the installer that needs to be delivered to PEA which may help explaining this to your local PEA office

[blackcab]

Indeed IMHO, what are the penalties for breaking the supply contract (reduced or no output), maybe your system is damaged and you can't afford to repair?

I'm quite happy to sell my power at the same rate as I buy it (either officially or unofficially by spinning the meter backwards) as I can stop selling any time I want.

If it's official via a sell meter I can still make money by exporting more than I use (which you can't do if you spin the meter backwards).

What happens if you have a digital meter? These don't have anything to spin backwards. Is it the case that the digital reading goes up slower as you are using your solar generated electricity at the same time as the grid electricity?

What if you generated more electricity than you used?

[Crossy]

Indeed IMHO, what are the penalties for breaking the supply contract (reduced or no output), maybe your system is damaged and you can't afford to repair?

I'm quite happy to sell my power at the same rate as I buy it (either officially or unofficially by spinning the meter backwards) as I can stop selling any time I want.

If it's official via a sell meter I can still make money by exporting more than I use (which you can't do if you spin the meter backwards).

What happens if you have a digital meter? These don't have anything to spin backwards. Is it the case that the digital reading goes up slower as you are using your solar generated electricity at the same time as the grid electricity?

What if you generated more electricity than you used?

Digital meters do know about power export and if correctly programmed will "spin" backwards (readout gets smaller) if your power generation is greater than your usage, if generation is smaller than usage then the readout just gets bigger more slowly.

In this case it is important to talk to your supply authority so they know you are exporting during the day and can ensure their meter behaves correctly.

[Issangeorge]

I don't know if I have figured it out right, but the way I figure it out if I can borrow the money or loan it to myself at 6% interest over 15 years solar is cheaper than the grid. In Thailand the bonus is their peak power is during the day when all the businesses are open and the factories are running and the ACs are turned up high, just when our systems are putting power into the system. So why is Thailand building new coal plants and hydro plants? Would it not be better for them to guarantee long term loans for people to install solar systems?

[GinBoy2]

So, keeping y'all in the loop, here's what you get for the install. It's 50% upfront the rest on install. Baan Solar deal with the co-ordination with AmornSolar after this, so it's 'hopefully' pretty seamless

Edited June 17, 2015 by GinBoy2

[Nuddy]

Today I went to the PEA in my town in Khon Kaen Province and they kept saying had to be company and they didn't know anything about home Solar or Home rooftop solar.

Who do we phone first, Amorn Solar or Baan Solar?

I suppose as I am half a days drive from Bangkok it is going to be difficult.

[GinBoy2]

I would call Baan Solar first since they are the ones doing the install. Call 080-1504567 and talk to Lung. I don't think she speaks English so you'll need a Thai speaker

[Crossy]

Today I went to the PEA in my town in Khon Kaen Province and they kept saying had to be company and they didn't know anything about home Solar or Home rooftop solar.

Who do we phone first, Amorn Solar or Baan Solar?

You could point them at their own website https://www.pea.co.th/vspp/Pages/Solar%20Rooftop.aspx (link from an earlier post).

[Nuddy]

Thanks GinBoy2 and Crossy.

I phoned Lung, she speaks clear english but was in a meeting and will call back. I am sure I will get a yes or no answer so I can go on from that.

The PEA website has both Thai and English but when you click it to English you lose all mention of anything to do with Home solar power or Rooftop solar.

And yes I'll take my phone (for hotspot) and laptop and pull up that website for the guys at PEA Chum Phae, Khon Kaen.

I'll try again tomorrow ay PEA.

Many thanks. My bill I just paid was 1406 units for a total including VAT and fee total 6467THB. I hope a 5 Kw (single phase ) would cut the guts out of those bills.

I could turn off the air conditioners I suppose but thats unlikely.

[Nuddy]

Many thanks GinBoy2

Lung phoned me and quick discussion I gave email and she asked for photos of the house.

I asked about PEA permit/license and she will send me stuff for that she said.

I am really ready to buy.

Really I need a bigger single phase system but I will explore that. They have a job in Chiayapum about 100 kilometres away so looks like I am in luck if I move quickly

Many thanks mate

Best regards