Non-O Visa Failure - Not Accepting Proof of Income (?)

[JeffreyO]

to apply for the Non-O visa status

Are you talking about a conversion to a non-o visa entry before applying for an extension of stay? Immigrations doesn't issue non-o visas other than as a nominal conversion of entry.

That is correct. A conversion of my Tourist visa to a Non-O.

[NancyL]

A few more facts are coming out. JeffreyO is applying for a conversion of his tourist visa to a 90-day O visa as the first step toward getting a marriage extension -- he's not applying for a 12-month extension AND the 40,000 baht/month income source he's claiming doesn't appear to be a regular monthly salary from continuing employment but rather a one-time payment -- a bonus -- that is being paid in increments from a job he no longer has. Hmm. Perhaps the prudent thing would be to simply open a 400,000 baht bank account here in Thailand.

[JeffreyO]

A few more facts are coming out. JeffreyO is applying for a conversion of his tourist visa to a 90-day O visa as the first step toward getting a marriage extension -- he's not applying for a 12-month extension AND the 40,000 baht/month income source he's claiming doesn't appear to be a regular monthly salary from continuing employment but rather a one-time payment -- a bonus -- that is being paid in increments from a job he no longer has. Hmm. Perhaps the prudent thing would be to simply open a 400,000 baht bank account here in Thailand.

It's about 200,000 thb a month for the next 20 years. I'd say it's more than sufficient. That being said, the whole point of getting the Non-O is to expedite the process of being able to use the USCIS in Bangkok so that we can get my wife a green card to enter the US. At this point, I'm going to try one more time going by when I'm in the area in about a month, if that doesn't work I'll apply for a Non-O from an embassy when I return from Japan. I only need the Non-O to initiate the process. Still, i really hope this information is helpful to someone who encounters these problems in the future.

I still stand by the question of, why do I have to jump through hoops because they don't recognize their own laws?

[AaronLV]

A few more facts are coming out. JeffreyO is applying for a conversion of his tourist visa to a 90-day O visa as the first step toward getting a marriage extension -- he's not applying for a 12-month extension AND the 40,000 baht/month income source he's claiming doesn't appear to be a regular monthly salary from continuing employment but rather a one-time payment -- a bonus -- that is being paid in increments from a job he no longer has. Hmm. Perhaps the prudent thing would be to simply open a 400,000 baht bank account here in Thailand.

It's about 200,000 thb a month for the next 20 years. I'd say it's more than sufficient. That being said, the whole point of getting the Non-O is to expedite the process of being able to use the USCIS in Bangkok so that we can get my wife a green card to enter the US. At this point, I'm going to try one more time going by when I'm in the area in about a month, if that doesn't work I'll apply for a Non-O from an embassy when I return from Japan. I only need the Non-O to initiate the process. Still, i really hope this information is helpful to someone who encounters these problems in the future.

I still stand by the question of, why do I have to jump through hoops because they don't recognize their own laws?

If that is your purpose you would be better just filing in the US time wise, as you still need 6 months of residency in Thailand after the Non-O to file at the USCIS office. Add the 6 months plus another 3 to 4, and you are at the same amount of time as it would be filing in the US.

[JeffreyO]

Marriage visa takes about 18 months, a fiance visa takes less time, roughly 9 months, if filing at the Dallas Drop Box and the local USCIS offices in the states. Filing in Thailand will be significantly faster. Current processing times at USCIS BKK is roughly 1-2 months.

Edited May 28, 2015 by JeffreyO

[thhMan]

Sometimes you have to wonder if its all worth it...

Ive been here 10 years and I have a missus and 2 kids

If we rule out the corruption and the inability to know what their job entails, there is also the knowledge that my kids are being taught by the same level of incompetence as can be seen in nearly every aspect of Thai life.

Culture my a55, as they lost that years ago, as can be seen by the disarray that their historical part of the culture is left to rot in their greed! Culture to them is an excuse to be stupid and it may have been okay in the dark ages, but it 2015 (or their version of it)

I hope you get it sorted out, but remember.... you will still feel like a criminal that needs to report on a regular basis, either in person or online.... never forget that... they sure as <deleted> dont!

I am not at retirement age, but I had the 400k in the bank and got that all sorted out by a legal friend who took care of the entire process for me... If you are having issues, PM me and I will send you his contact details... No promises though.. just ask him for advice... it wont cost anything

[Estrada]

I brought bank statements as well as pay stubs from my American company and the affidavit of income required by the embassy. It wasn't that they complained i didn't have the proper paperwork, they stated that you can't apply for a Non-O visa due to marriage and use monthly income, that it had to be 400,000 in a thai bank account.

If they were telling you that you could not apply for a "NON O " visa they were absolutely correct .

Applications for visas are made at Thai embassy's /Consulates outside Thailand

Not correct. You can apply for a Non O Visa at Chaengwattana Immigration but only on the basis of Retirement if you are aged 50 or above. This is the only exception where a Visa is issued in Country.

[ubonjoe]

Not correct. You can apply for a Non O Visa at Chaengwattana Immigration but only on the basis of Retirement if you are aged 50 or above. This is the only exception where a Visa is issued in Country.

Immigration will do non immigrant visas based upon qualifying for other types of extension than retirement.

They can also can do them for marriage, having a Thai child, working, teaching, education and investment.

[JeffreyO]

For those offering advice I appreciate it. For those trolling, I suppose it's to be expected by some. Regardless I want to say that I will attempt again, I will also bring the document that Joe provided me in both English (for myself) and Thai, with the section highlighted for extension based on marriage which explicitly stated that 40,000 a month is permitted. I will escalate as far as need be until I realize that there is nothing but defeat, at which point I will go to my backup plan of applying for a Non-O at a nearby embassy.

I have heard many horror stories about the ineptitude of Thai government workers however, it's sometimes hard to believe until you experience it yourself. Consider this a word of warning to anyone doing the same, come prepared.

[technologybytes]

You may be better to go to Savanakhet in Laos for your O Visa (no proof of income required) and then next year when you ask for an extension just take the bank book in addition to the letter from the consulate. You should be OK with that.

Whenever you argue with them, you will need to allow time/reason for them to change their mind without loss of face.

Edited May 28, 2015 by technologybytes

[JeffreyO]

Savanakhet was definitely in the top contenders if this fails a second time. I was also considering Bali or another trip to Hong Kong. Though I believe Savanakhet would be easier.

A Thai bank book wouldn't make sense if I was applying based on income as the income is deposited into a US account. I would only bring the bank book if I were applying the 400,000 baht total in a Thai account. Unless there's something I'm missing?

[steelepulse]

If you end purpose is to get the Mrs. to the US, why not get her a tourist visa which is good for up to 10 years and she can stay for 6 months at a time.

[JeffreyO]

If you end purpose is to get the Mrs. to the US, why not get her a tourist visa which is good for up to 10 years and she can stay for 6 months at a time.

She would be unable to work on a tourist visa. She has a masters in marketing and prefers staying employed.

[transam]

If you end purpose is to get the Mrs. to the US, why not get her a tourist visa which is good for up to 10 years and she can stay for 6 months at a time.

She would be unable to work on a tourist visa. She has a masters in marketing and prefers staying employed.

A Thai masters........?.......

[JeffreyO]

If you end purpose is to get the Mrs. to the US, why not get her a tourist visa which is good for up to 10 years and she can stay for 6 months at a time.

She would be unable to work on a tourist visa. She has a masters in marketing and prefers staying employed.

A Thai masters........?.......

An MBA gained from a Thai university including a year spent internationally at a western university. Regardless, I have enough income for us, the issue isn't so much her needing money, her just wanting to work .

[Blackfox]

Jeff,

Joe is the ones advice to take.

I was recently processed from visa exempt to non O to extension based on marriage.

A statutory declaration is all that is required however, and as others have stated, individual officers are somewhat inept and are very short and direct often providing false information.

I was given incorrect information by 2 officers and I followed their advice exactly even knowing they were wrong.

When I returned to CW, I was told my arrival was too early but I immediately found the 2 female officers and they remembered me well.

They provided the non O sooner than legally prescribed knowing they provided me incorrect info with regards to time. They issued it to save face. They knew they were wrong.

There are sound, competent officers there and same with supervisors however learning the good from the bad takes a few trips there to learn who they are.

By coincidence my wife knows one of the female officers sisters; that helps significantly now.

Just a little advice mate; there is a women of about 50-55 years that works at the front desk where you pick up the relevant document before passing into the final main section.

She is very helpful and understands the immigration law. Don't ask the man at the front desk as he knows shit.

As Joe said, go back with all the relevant information you can. Try one of the other officers. The one with the messy hair and angry face is one to avoid.

Be neutral in your demeanour no matter how much it's killing you inside.

Do you speak Thai Jeff?

Believe me, it helps more than you can imagine. Not for communication, but a mutual respect that goes with the game.

They are good at CW Jeff; you may have just have arrived at the wrong desk on the wrong day.

Also, there's a real cute supervisor behind the officers who doesn't speak but I believe she is sound also.

Best of luck.

Fox.

Edited May 28, 2015 by Blackfox

[quandow]

And THIS is a large part of why I'm moving to Mexico. $25 USD for a six month tourist visa, immediately renewable with one visa run, for as long as you live. Temp residency for 4 years is inexpensive, easy to obtain, and after 4 years you are considered a FULL RESIDENT. None of these shenanigans where you are completely at the mercy of the mood of the immigration monkey official.

[JeffreyO]

Jeff,

Joe is the ones advice to take.

I was recently processed from visa exempt to non O to extension based on marriage.

A statutory declaration is all that is required however, and as others have stated, individual officers are somewhat inept and are very short and direct often providing false information.

I was given incorrect information by 2 officers and I followed their advice exactly even knowing they were wrong.

When I returned to CW, I was told my arrival was too early but I immediately found the 2 female officers and they remembered me well.

They provided the non O sooner than legally prescribed knowing they provided me incorrect info with regards to time. They issued it to save face. They knew they were wrong.

There are sound, competent officers there and same with supervisors however learning the good from the bad takes a few trips there to learn who they are.

By coincidence my wife knows one of the female officers sisters; that helps significantly now.

Just a little advice mate; there is a women of about 50-55 years that works at the front desk where you pick up the relevant document before passing into the final main section.

She is very helpful and understands the immigration law. Don't ask the man at the front desk as he knows shit.

As Joe said, go back with all the relevant information you can. Try one of the other officers. The one with the messy hair and angry face is one to avoid.

Be neutral in your demeanour no matter how much it's killing you inside.

Do you speak Thai Jeff?

Believe me, it helps more than you can imagine. Not for communication, but a mutual respect that goes with the game.

They are good at CW Jeff; you may have just have arrived at the wrong desk on the wrong day.

Also, there's a real cute supervisor behind the officers who doesn't speak but I believe she is sound also.

Best of luck.

Fox.

Thank you. pom pood pasa thai dai nid noi. Obviously the longer I'm in this relationship the more I will learn. I will attempt your advice, I wasn't there long enough to really recall faces but I won't forget the one, exceptionally rude female officer who was likely in her late 20's.

I will bring the documentation provided by Joe, with the appropriate sections highlighted. In an attempt to play down their previous mistakes I won't be too loud or seem aggressive, which will definitely kill me considering they've wasted my time and money at this point.

I will return with the same documents I brought last time, affidavit of income, proof of deposits from a foreign source, all the requested paperwork, really the only hurdle is getting them to agree that I can have my tourist visa transitioned to a Non-O due to marriage with an income of 40,000 baht or higher. I will definitely update this thread when I try again. All advice is still appreciated. I wrote down the really rude officers name before I left, I will post it later in case anyone has any advice for dealing with her.

Edited May 28, 2015 by JeffreyO

[willyumiii]

This is maybe the third of forth post I have read on TV recently that states that the proof of income letter, notarized by the US embassy was not accepted as proof of income.

Since I have been here on a non O (marriage ) visa, the notarized income letter from the US embassy is the only proof of income I have ever had to provide.

I understand that expats from most countries have always been required to show bank records or some other proof as well. But for Americans, the letter from the embassy has always been sufficient in the past..

I am starting to wonder if this is a change in policy / attitude toward US expats ot if these are just isolated incidents.

Have any other US expats been having this problem?

If so, what office have you had the problem at?

I am due to extend again in early July and have my letter already.......but it sounds like I may be asked for more proof this time???

[ray23]

They are angry about no more tea money

http://www.thephuketnews.com/an-end-to-unofficial-fees-charged-by-thai-officials-52503.php

[SOTIRIOS]

.............it's called......playing God'.......

....why 'bust your b*lls'........???

...maybe you 'looked too happy'......

[Toscano]

I shall be going to immigration next month and am now preparing documents . For a visa in respect of marriage , definitely the sum is BT40,000 per month .

My first year here I had BT400'000 deposited in the bank , the immigration officer said " Next time we want to see BT40,000 monthly ."

I have just sent for the Thai Marriage Visa Requirements : fron the immigration office Bangkok , I suggest you send for a copy .

My immigration officer at Sakhon Nakhon smiles beatifically , but usually finds some obscure , not listed document , to ruffle my feathers .

It is a good idea to have your wife check all the documents and when you sit in front of the officer let your wife do all the talking , keep your mouth shut .

Once there is a difference of opinion that becomes an argument you simply cannot win .

I say to have your wife check all the documents before you go , then she won't turn to you and accuse you of doing all wrong . We have a 3hr drive to immigration !!!

The officer is always right , no matter how wrong he or she is , they can make up the rules themselves .

We have to have a letter from the head man , his house book and identity card , veryfying my living here .

We also have to have two or three documents from the Amphur office .

For the lowest level financial contribution for a RETIREMENT VISA you need to have BT400,000 deposited and BT40,000 per month .

I wonder whether the officer was confusing the two . LET THE WIFE DO ALL THE TALKING !!!

Best Wishes for next time .

[ubonjoe]

This is maybe the third of forth post I have read on TV recently that states that the proof of income letter, notarized by the US embassy was not accepted as proof of income.

Since I have been here on a non O (marriage ) visa, the notarized income letter from the US embassy is the only proof of income I have ever had to provide.

I understand that expats from most countries have always been required to show bank records or some other proof as well. But for Americans, the letter from the embassy has always been sufficient in the past..

I am starting to wonder if this is a change in policy / attitude toward US expats ot if these are just isolated incidents.

Have any other US expats been having this problem?

If so, what office have you had the problem at?

I am due to extend again in early July and have my letter already.......but it sounds like I may be asked for more proof this time???

This is not a case of them refusing the income affidavit. It was saying that only 400k baht in the bank could be used.

I have seen posts of some offices asking for backup proof for all income documents not specifically for US ones.

I also already have my affidavit for this year. But not worried about them wanting to see back up proof. I have a bank book showing my income coming in every month.

[transam]

I shall be going to immigration next month and am now preparing documents . For a visa in respect of marriage , definitely the sum is BT40,000 per month .

My first year here I had BT400'000 deposited in the bank , the immigration officer said " Next time we want to see BT40,000 monthly ."

I have just sent for the Thai Marriage Visa Requirements : fron the immigration office Bangkok , I suggest you send for a copy .

My immigration officer at Sakhon Nakhon smiles beatifically , but usually finds some obscure , not listed document , to ruffle my feathers .

It is a good idea to have your wife check all the documents and when you sit in front of the officer let your wife do all the talking , keep your mouth shut .

Once there is a difference of opinion that becomes an argument you simply cannot win .

I say to have your wife check all the documents before you go , then she won't turn to you and accuse you of doing all wrong . We have a 3hr drive to immigration !!!

The officer is always right , no matter how wrong he or she is , they can make up the rules themselves .

We have to have a letter from the head man , his house book and identity card , veryfying my living here .

We also have to have two or three documents from the Amphur office .

For the lowest level financial contribution for a RETIREMENT VISA you need to have BT400,000 deposited and BT40,000 per month .

I wonder whether the officer was confusing the two . LET THE WIFE DO ALL THE TALKING !!!

Best Wishes for next time .

Retire........800,000bht

[hlj]

Chiang Mai excepted mine as you described you applied for yours just a month ago. This is my first I did have to have a non-o visa to apply for the marriage visa.

[JeffreyO]

Chiang Mai excepted mine as you described you applied for yours just a month ago. This is my first I did have to have a non-o visa to apply for the marriage visa.

I'm sorry, expected your what? 400,000 or 40,000? Can you be more specific?

[JB300]

Snip...

For the lowest level financial contribution for a RETIREMENT VISA you need to have BT400,000 deposited and BT40,000 per month .

Edit: Sorry I misunderstood your point, for a Retirement visa it could by "400k in Bank AND 40k income", for Marriage it should be "400k in Bank OR 40k income".

Edited May 28, 2015 by JB300

[JeffreyO]

Happily, I have many years to go before retirement. You mentioned you requested official documentation with the requirements and policies from someone in charge? A director or something similar? May I ask where you requested this? The more supporting documentation I have the better.

[mercman24]

i wonder if it was the same woman i had the pleasure of last October, about 50, wears glasses had her hair up ,a bit "school marm" ? very rude lady indeed. it was aproaching dinnertime, she just stood up and marched off, i called out "is there a problem" no, dinnertime this was at quarter to the hour,you come back later, and the bitch was 20 minutes late returning to her desk.

[uptoyoumyfriend]

Also instead of telling them their business better to ask what exactly it is they want to make this work , preferably written.