British tourist reportedly raped in Kanchanaburi

[Bluespunk]

And yet again you blame the victim by the language you choose to use.

By the way there are many, many studies out there on rape and power. Funny enough they don't all agree.

Go figure.

Edited May 30, 2015 by Bluespunk

[rebelplatoon]

Very sad, life ruining lawless event. Hope there is proper action, but I fear the worst.

People DO tend to drink, go out and indulge a bit more when on holiday. Allowed and should be possible. If not there is something wrong with the destination....

[sprq]

Of course I do not blame the victim, but seriously, why do teenage tourists think getting drunk in a 3rd world country and wandering around like it's Disney World. Most Thai people have little and nothing to lose, they are not governed by the same controls found in the Nanny states. Tourist need to relaize that coming here and getting drunk and stoned and taking chances is not a good idea. I hope the catch the rapist and throw away the key, but of course, they will likely get 3 yrs, and then only if they are over 18.

You just did blame the victim.

Why do holiday makers think they can wear a bikini in when on holiday.

Why did the man have his money in his pocket when he was drinking.

Why did the girl smile and chat with the taxi driver.

It is your attitude that continues to give excuses to violent behaviour.

She is on holiday. She went out for drinks. She walked back to her hotel. She chatted to some friendly motorcycle guys. As you chat with friendly girls.

Maybe they offered her a ride back to the hotel.

She did nothing wrong.

This government needs to step up punishment of offences against foreigners.especially crimes of rape and violence. Nobody cares about a bag snatch or a scam here and there for a few hundred baht. The violence against foreigners in this country is the worst in the entire world.

You are one more of the far too many people today who continually put out a message to young women -- or any women -- that they can do what they want, without ever adding the warning that it is sensible to exercise caution in some matters and at some times, in particular to be careful about drinking to excess at night and walking about alone in potentially dangerous places.

This appears to be -- repeat, appears to be -- what this young woman did. By doing so, she put herself in a position where the crime of rape was more likely to happen than if she had exercised more caution. To say so is not to blame the victim; to say so is to simply send a message to women in general to take more care, for their own good.

That is cgphuket's point and your response only serves to send a message to such tourists to carry on regardless, no matter what the potential dangers. By not speaking about the need for caution in a world in which the crime of rape will always exist, you are making things worse, not better.

[Asheron]

Lets get some perspective here. This is a horrible, unfortunate event, but Thailand is not the world capital of rape.

Statistically, it doesn't even make the top 20. The UK, the US, Germany, Sweden, Norway and Australia all have higher levels of rape per population.

Yeah, you tell yourself that and do not even think about that all the examples you take up are highly functioning democracies where police actually do their job and prosecutors prosecute and judges give sentences and women actually report rapes/assaults to the police.

Unlike "non-democracies" (guess any other word is not allowed on this forum) such as Thailand where prosecutors, police, judges and military are equally corrupt and wouldn't give a s*** if some cases didn't end up reported outside Thailand. Only reason for instance the Koh Tao case is actually done something about is because it made headlines basicly everywhere in the world. And even in that case the RTP showed how utterly incompetent they are.

[fishbrando]

And yet again you blame the victim by the language you choose to use.

By the way there are many, many studies out there on rape and power. Funny enough they don't all agree.

Go figure.

Well then cite one to back your position.

Here's more:

https://emmatheemo.wordpress.com/2012/12/20/why-do-rapists-rape-for-power-or-sex-lets-ask-a-rapist/

Even Wikipedia, a site with a very PC editorial slant, says the following:

Though anger and power are believed, by some academics, to be the primary motivation for most rapes,^[9] in 1994, Richard Felson coauthored the controversial book "Aggression and Coercive Actions: A Social-Interactionist Perspective" with James Tedeschi, a book which argues that sexual fulfillment is the motive of rapists, rather than the aggressive desire to dominate the victim.^[10]Felson believes that rape is an aggressive form of sexual coercion and the goal of rape is sexual satisfaction rather than power. Most rapists do not have a preference for rape over consensual sex.^{[11][12][13][14][15][16]} In one study, male rapists evaluated with penile plethysmography demonstrated more arousal to forced sex and less discrimination between forced and consensual sex than non-rapist control subjects, though both groups responded more strongly to consensual sex scenarios.^[17]

[Asheron]

Every day Thailand is losing more and more tourist by these low life no respect for life barbarians. It is the governments fault for letting so many Thai men Beat and disrespect there wives and girl friends. I believe it is two late for the government to correct these people because it is normal in Thai and not enough punishment if they are caught. 500 baht fine bu-l shit!

Beating up on women is promoted in Thai soaps every night.

This.

I'm disgusted how women are portrated in the extreme s****y soaps they have here in Thailand. In one of them, because i was "forced" to watch for like 10 minutes one of the so called "luuk-krung superstars" (aren't all "superstars" in Thailand?) was raped and beaten by the male leading "actor". In the next scene the woman and the man are happily smiling and cuddling...

[Asheron]

Every day Thailand is losing more and more tourist by these low life no respect for life barbarians. It is the governments fault for letting so many Thai men Beat and disrespect there wives and girl friends. I believe it is two late for the government to correct these people because it is normal in Thai and not enough punishment if they are caught. 500 baht fine bu-l shit!

I think there is a lot of truth in this, I once attempted to intervene when I saw a Thai man punching his girlfriend but the Thais I was with thought I was insane.

IT IS NOT OK FOR A MAN TO VIOLENTLY HIT A WOMAN IN ANY CIRCUMSTANCES.

So if a woman came at you with say a broken bottle/knife and you couldn't run you would let her either kill you or hurt you pretty bad because she is a woman?

[Bluespunk]

And yet again you blame the victim by the language you choose to use.

By the way there are many, many studies out there on rape and power. Funny enough they don't all agree.

Go figure.

Well then cite one to back your position.

Here's more:

https://emmatheemo.wordpress.com/2012/12/20/why-do-rapists-rape-for-power-or-sex-lets-ask-a-rapist/

Even Wikipedia, a site with a very PC editorial slant, says the following:

Though anger and power are believed, by some academics, to be the primary motivation for most rapes,^[9] in 1994, Richard Felson coauthored the controversial book "Aggression and Coercive Actions: A Social-Interactionist Perspective" with James Tedeschi, a book which argues that sexual fulfillment is the motive of rapists, rather than the aggressive desire to dominate the victim.^[10]Felson believes that rape is an aggressive form of sexual coercion and the goal of rape is sexual satisfaction rather than power. Most rapists do not have a preference for rape over consensual sex.^{[11][12][13][14][15][16]} In one study, male rapists evaluated with penile plethysmography demonstrated more arousal to forced sex and less discrimination between forced and consensual sex than non-rapist control subjects, though both groups responded more strongly to consensual sex scenarios.^[17]

Wikipedia? Jesus!

https://www.mnsu.edu/varp/assault/myths.html

As you trust Wikipedia the info on Groth typology includes info on power and other forms of rapist behaviours.

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Causes_of_sexual_violence

Another view

http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2013/aug/29/rape-about-power-not-sex

You want more, google is your friend.

Edited May 30, 2015 by Bluespunk

[fishbrando]

And yet again you blame the victim by the language you choose to use.

By the way there are many, many studies out there on rape and power. Funny enough they don't all agree.

Go figure.

Well then cite one to back your position.

Here's more:

https://emmatheemo.wordpress.com/2012/12/20/why-do-rapists-rape-for-power-or-sex-lets-ask-a-rapist/

Even Wikipedia, a site with a very PC editorial slant, says the following:

Though anger and power are believed, by some academics, to be the primary motivation for most rapes,^[9] in 1994, Richard Felson coauthored the controversial book "Aggression and Coercive Actions: A Social-Interactionist Perspective" with James Tedeschi, a book which argues that sexual fulfillment is the motive of rapists, rather than the aggressive desire to dominate the victim.^[10]Felson believes that rape is an aggressive form of sexual coercion and the goal of rape is sexual satisfaction rather than power. Most rapists do not have a preference for rape over consensual sex.^{[11][12][13][14][15][16]} In one study, male rapists evaluated with penile plethysmography demonstrated more arousal to forced sex and less discrimination between forced and consensual sex than non-rapist control subjects, though both groups responded more strongly to consensual sex scenarios.^[17]

Wikipedia? Jesus!

https://www.mnsu.edu/varp/assault/myths.html

As you trust Wikipedia the info on Groth typology includes info on power and other forms of rapist behaviours.

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Causes_of_sexual_violence

Another view

http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2013/aug/29/rape-about-power-not-sex

You want more, google is your friend.

MNSU article is not a study nor does it link to studies.

Groth typology is not a study nor does it link to studies. (I have skepticism about Wikipedia because of their PC bias, so when they go against their grain, I am more trusting.)

Guardian article is not a study nor does it link to studies.

Try again.

Edited May 30, 2015 by fishbrando

[Bluespunk]

And yet again you blame the victim by the language you choose to use.

By the way there are many, many studies out there on rape and power. Funny enough they don't all agree.

Go figure.

Well then cite one to back your position.

Here's more:

https://emmatheemo.wordpress.com/2012/12/20/why-do-rapists-rape-for-power-or-sex-lets-ask-a-rapist/

Even Wikipedia, a site with a very PC editorial slant, says the following:

Though anger and power are believed, by some academics, to be the primary motivation for most rapes,^[9] in 1994, Richard Felson coauthored the controversial book "Aggression and Coercive Actions: A Social-Interactionist Perspective" with James Tedeschi, a book which argues that sexual fulfillment is the motive of rapists, rather than the aggressive desire to dominate the victim.^[10]Felson believes that rape is an aggressive form of sexual coercion and the goal of rape is sexual satisfaction rather than power. Most rapists do not have a preference for rape over consensual sex.^{[11][12][13][14][15][16]} In one study, male rapists evaluated with penile plethysmography demonstrated more arousal to forced sex and less discrimination between forced and consensual sex than non-rapist control subjects, though both groups responded more strongly to consensual sex scenarios.^[17]

Wikipedia? Jesus!

https://www.mnsu.edu/varp/assault/myths.html

As you trust Wikipedia the info on Groth typology includes info on power and other forms of rapist behaviours.

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Causes_of_sexual_violence

Another view

http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2013/aug/29/rape-about-power-not-sex

You want more, google is your friend.

MNSU article is not a study nor does it link to studies.

Groth typology is not a study nor does it link to studies. (I have skepticism about Wikipedia because of their PC bias, so when they go against their grain, I am more trusting.)

Guardian article is not a study nor does it link to studies.

Try again.

Nope.

I've backed up my viewpoint.

You don't like it? Tough.

Edited May 30, 2015 by Bluespunk

[fishbrando]

MNSU article is not a study nor does it link to studies.

Groth typology is not a study nor does it link to studies. (I have skepticism about Wikipedia because of their PC bias, so when they go against their grain, I am more trusting.)

Guardian article is not a study nor does it link to studies.

Try again.

Nope.

I've proved my case.

You don't like it? Tough.

Case closed then.

I know you've convinced yourself of your position. Hopefully others are more reasonable.

[Bluespunk]

MNSU article is not a study nor does it link to studies.

Groth typology is not a study nor does it link to studies. (I have skepticism about Wikipedia because of their PC bias, so when they go against their grain, I am more trusting.)

Guardian article is not a study nor does it link to studies.

Try again.

Nope.

I've proved my case.

You don't like it? Tough.

Case closed then.

I know you've convinced yourself of your position. Hopefully others are more reasonable.

Reasonable?

some might say that someone who doesn't trust Wikipedia if it is too pc (pc like beauty being judged in the eye of the beholder) but if it isn't pc it is judged to be more trustworthy, is being less than reasonable themselves.

However in order to get back to being on topic...

Edited May 30, 2015 by Bluespunk

[Luang]

Of course I do not blame the victim, but seriously, why do teenage tourists think getting drunk in a 3rd world country and wandering around like it's Disney World. Most Thai people have little and nothing to lose, they are not governed by the same controls found in the Nanny states. Tourist need to relaize that coming here and getting drunk and stoned and taking chances is not a good idea. I hope the catch the rapist and throw away the key, but of course, they will likely get 3 yrs, and then only if they are over 18.

You just did blame the victim.

Why do holiday makers think they can wear a bikini in when on holiday.

Why did the man have his money in his pocket when he was drinking.

Why did the girl smile and chat with the taxi driver.

It is your attitude that continues to give excuses to violent behaviour.

She is on holiday. She went out for drinks. She walked back to her hotel. She chatted to some friendly motorcycle guys. As you chat with friendly girls.

Maybe they offered her a ride back to the hotel.

She did nothing wrong.

This government needs to step up punishment of offences against foreigners.especially crimes of rape and violence. Nobody cares about a bag snatch or a scam here and there for a few hundred baht. The violence against foreigners in this country is the worst in the entire world.

Nonsense. It was the girls stupidity that was to blame.

Can you blame a tiger for killing a tourist that walks into its cage?

That is without a shred of doubt the most stupid, insensitive and abhorrent piece of trash I have ever read on a public forum. What nationality are you? I could take an educated guess but of course you haven't the integrity to share that truth. Please, share your beliefs with ALL of your female family members and friends, they deserve to know what you are!

[fishbrando]

Reasonable?

some might say that someone who doesn't trust Wikipedia if it is too pc (pc like beauty being judged in the eye of the beholder) but if it isn't pc it is judged to be more trustworthy, is being less than reasonable themselves.

However in order to get back to being on topic...

Yes, what's wrong with that? If a Thai person said that Thailand has serious cultural problems, wouldn't that get your attention more than if a Thai Visa member said so?

Anyway, this is just a nitpick which takes away from the larger issue:

(1) your ignoring evidence which contradicts your position,

(2) failing to produce evidence to back your claims, and

(3) making victims more vulnerable via repetition of dangerous falsehoods.

[Bluespunk]

Reasonable?

some might say that someone who doesn't trust Wikipedia if it is too pc (pc like beauty being judged in the eye of the beholder) but if it isn't pc it is judged to be more trustworthy, is being less than reasonable themselves.

However in order to get back to being on topic...

Yes, what's wrong with that? If a Thai person said that Thailand has serious cultural problems, wouldn't that get your attention more than if a Thai Visa member said so?

Anyway, this is just a nitpick which takes away from the larger issue:

(1) your ignoring evidence which contradicts your position,

(2) failing to produce evidence to back your claims, and

(3) making victims more vulnerable via repetition of dangerous falsehoods.

As to your opening question: Everything.

1. So are you.

2. Backed up my claims. You didn't like the sources, tough.

3. How is my taking a view that why scum rape going to make people any more or less vulnerable?

I have said anyone blaming the victim is wrong and they are.

Only rapists are to blame for rape.

My problem is not with being safe but with those who are critical of the victim of predatory scum.

The posts I responded to blamed the victim. That is something that should not go unchallenged.

[fishbrando]

As to your opening question: Everything.

Again, lack of evidence or proof or reason. This is typical of your argument style. "You're wrong, because I said so."

1. So are you.

Haven't seen any reason or studies that contradict my position, whereas I've provided plenty. Still waiting, but I'm not holding my breath.

2. Backed up my claims. You didn't like the sources, tough.

Backed up your claims with opinions and articles that are opinion and cite no studies. When I asked you to try again, you said, "Nope." That pretty much ended the debate in my eyes.

3. How is my taking a view that why scum rape going to make people any more or less vulnerable?

Your shaming of anyone suggesting that victims can take action to make themselves safer will ultimately result in more victims. We have very little control over psychopaths (besides catching them after the act and locking them up), but we have huge control over our own actions to avoid being a victim. I recommend a book called "Strong on Defense" for many practical tips on how to avoid being a victim for both men and women.

At this point, I'm just in it to convince others and not you. People can judge for themselves as to who is more reasonable.

[Bluespunk]

As to your opening question: Everything.

Again, lack of evidence or proof or reason. This is typical of your argument style. "You're wrong, because I said so."

Haven't seen any reason or studies that contradict my position, whereas I've provided plenty. Still waiting, but I'm not holding my breath.

Backed up your claims with opinions and articles that are opinion and cite no studies. When I asked you to try again, you said, "Nope." That pretty much ended the debate in my eyes.

3. How is my taking a view that why scum rape going to make people any more or less vulnerable?

Your shaming of anyone suggesting that victims can take action to make themselves safer will ultimately result in more victims. We have very little control over psychopaths (besides catching them after the act and locking them up), but we have huge control over our own actions to avoid being a victim. I recommend a book called "Strong on Defense" for many practical tips on how to avoid being a victim for both men and women.

At this point, I'm just in it to convince others and not you. People can judge for themselves as to who is more reasonable.

Anyone blaming the victim deserves to be shamed.

The point you have quoted to say I am making people more vulnerable [3] was concerned with the motivations of rapists, in effect the ongoing argument between us about desire or power. It had nothing to do with how people can defend themselves.

I posted links to sites supporting my view, you didn't like them because they don't meet your criteria. That really is your problem.

I'm not trying to convince anyone of anything, just expressing my point of view.

Edited May 30, 2015 by Bluespunk

[Beetlejuice]

A very common consensus is that if a woman is young and attractive and ventures out in public places than she is sending out all the wrong messages and leaving herself vulnerable to rape.

When I am out and about, I see many attractive and desirable young ladies, some even wearing slutty clothes and thick make-up, but my mind doesn`t say; she`s giving me the come on to rape her. If I were to begin having feelings like that, I would immediately book myself an appointment with a psychiatrist and seek professional treatment.

[fishbrando]

Anyone blaming the victim deserves to be shamed.

True victim blaming is indeed shameful. Discussion on how a victim could have avoided being a victim is not victim blaming. My first post in this thread shows the difference.

The point you have quoted to say I am making people more vulnerable [3] was concerned with the motivations of rapists, in effect the ongoing argument between us about desire or power. It had nothing to do with how people can defend themselves.

Okay, fair enough. However, the point you made might be even more dangerous if people were to believe it, in that you were basically saying that it doesn't mater how drunk you are, what you look like, where you are, because rape is about power. This is basically saying that a person can't do much about being a victim. The truth is, being sober and being in a public place in daylight is incredibly safe compared to being drunk in an isolated area at night.

I posted links to sites supporting my view, you didn't like them because they don't meet your criteria. That really is your problem.

Yes, my criteria is that the links be studies and not just someone's opinion. I'm looking for facts and reason, not opinion. Comforting lies will not keep anyone safe.

[duanebigsby]

This discussion seems to be people who say "don't blame the victim" are being accused of making the world more dangerous because people won't take precautions, while the "precautions could be taken" crowd are being accused of blaming the victim.

Both are correct except when someone says "she brought it on herself" That's blaming the victim.

It is always the rapist's fault.

But caution needs to be taken. I would never suggest the victim brings it on themselves, but watch that no one spikes your drink, don't get drunk with people you don't know, don't go to areas of town you don't know alone. We should be able to say these things without being seen as victim blamers.

[Bluespunk]

Anyone blaming the victim deserves to be shamed.

True victim blaming is indeed shameful. Discussion on how a victim could have avoided being a victim is not victim blaming. My first post in this thread shows the difference.

The point you have quoted to say I am making people more vulnerable [3] was concerned with the motivations of rapists, in effect the ongoing argument between us about desire or power. It had nothing to do with how people can defend themselves.

Okay, fair enough. However, the point you made might be even more dangerous if people were to believe it, in that you were basically saying that it doesn't mater how drunk you are, what you look like, where you are, because rape is about power. This is basically saying that a person can't do much about being a victim. The truth is, being sober and being in a public place in daylight is incredibly safe compared to being drunk in an isolated area at night.

I posted links to sites supporting my view, you didn't like them because they don't meet your criteria. That really is your problem.

Yes, my criteria is that the links be studies and not just someone's opinion. I'm looking for facts and reason, not opinion. Comforting lies will not keep anyone safe.

We'll have to disagree on what constitutes a lie and informed opinion. We clearly have different views on that.

I have only criticised those who used language that effectively blamed the victim.

I have no problem with people being careful or being advised on how to be safe. To do so would be stupid.

I do however take issue with those who blame victims for the actions of predatory scum.

Edited May 30, 2015 by Bluespunk

[fishbrando]

We'll have to disagree on what constitutes a lie and informed opinion. We clearly have different views on that.

You're correct. I believe that an informed opinion is based on facts, reason, and studies.

I have only criticised those who used language that effectively blamed the victim.

I have no problem with people being careful or being advised on how to be safe. To do so would be stupid.

I do however take issue with those who blame victims for the actions of predatory scum.

You've criticized those who basically said that she might have been safer if she hadn't been drinking so much, which is a fact.

You clearly do have a problem with people being advised on how to be safe, because you shame them for victim blaming.

[Bluespunk]

We'll have to disagree on what constitutes a lie and informed opinion. We clearly have different views on that.

You're correct. I believe that an informed opinion is based on facts, reason, and studies.

I have only criticised those who used language that effectively blamed the victim.

I have no problem with people being careful or being advised on how to be safe. To do so would be stupid.

I do however take issue with those who blame victims for the actions of predatory scum.

You've criticized those who basically said that she might have been safer if she hadn't been drinking so much, which is a fact.

You clearly do have a problem with people being advised on how to be safe, because you shame them for victim blaming.

The links I posted backed my viewpoint and are informed opinion.

Those I criticised deserved it. The language they used effectively blamed the victim.

[fishbrando]

The links I posted backed my viewpoint and are informed opinion.

Where are the facts, reason, and studies?

Those I criticised deserved it. The language they used effectively blamed the victim.

How so? Can you defend your position, besides saying the same thing over and over again?

[Bluespunk]

The links I posted backed my viewpoint and are informed opinion.

Where are the facts, reason, and studies?

Those I criticised deserved it. The language they used effectively blamed the victim.

How so? Can you defend your position, besides saying the same thing over and over again?

Yes, you're right I am saying the same things because you are asking the same questions.

I'm not changing my view or the trust I have in the positions I hold or the links I posted to support them.

In effect we are just going round in circles.

[duanebigsby]

fishbrando and Bluespunk, you are both saying the same thing...don't blame the victim but precautions should be taken. Simple. finished.

Stop already.I agree with you both. You are both right so put down the Chang and enjoy the rest of the first day of a long weekend.

Cheers guys.

[Asheron]

A very common consensus is that if a woman is young and attractive and ventures out in public places than she is sending out all the wrong messages and leaving herself vulnerable to rape.

When I am out and about, I see many attractive and desirable young ladies, some even wearing slutty clothes and thick make-up, but my mind doesn`t say; she`s giving me the come on to rape her. If I were to begin having feelings like that, I would immediately book myself an appointment with a psychiatrist and seek professional treatment.

No it's not common consensus to think like that. Only <deleted>tards would think like that.

[brewsterbudgen]

Of course I do not blame the victim, but seriously, why do teenage tourists think getting drunk in a 3rd world country and wandering around like it's Disney World. Most Thai people have little and nothing to lose, they are not governed by the same controls found in the Nanny states. Tourist need to relaize that coming here and getting drunk and stoned and taking chances is not a good idea. I hope the catch the rapist and throw away the key, but of course, they will likely get 3 yrs, and then only if they are over 18.

You just did blame the victim.

Why do holiday makers think they can wear a bikini in when on holiday.

Why did the man have his money in his pocket when he was drinking.

Why did the girl smile and chat with the taxi driver.

It is your attitude that continues to give excuses to violent behaviour.

She is on holiday. She went out for drinks. She walked back to her hotel. She chatted to some friendly motorcycle guys. As you chat with friendly girls.

Maybe they offered her a ride back to the hotel.

She did nothing wrong.

This government needs to step up punishment of offences against foreigners.especially crimes of rape and violence. Nobody cares about a bag snatch or a scam here and there for a few hundred baht. The violence against foreigners in this country is the worst in the entire world.

Nonsense. It was the girls stupidity that was to blame.

Can you blame a tiger for killing a tourist that walks into its cage?

That is without a shred of doubt the most stupid, insensitive and abhorrent piece of trash I have ever read on a public forum. What nationality are you? I could take an educated guess but of course you haven't the integrity to share that truth. Please, share your beliefs with ALL of your female family members and friends, they deserve to know what you are!

It's best not to even dignify trollish posts like his by commenting.

[joejai]

First of all.... foreigners who come here and spend their hard earned money in Thailand are not all RICH!!! As far as Thais having contempt and jealousy for foreigners....here's a news flash! Don't bite the hand that feeds you! Thais should focus their jealousy and contempt on the rich Thais here....who look down on the average Thai and want nothing to do with them. What happened to the days when Thai people appreciated foreigners coming here and spending their money. There are plenty of other countries out there to spend a holiday in.

[DM07]

I have a question for all the "I am not blaming the victim, but..."-ists!

As far as I understand, we are talking about a young adult, it was 1:20 at night, she had a few drinks and went on a 300m long walk, by herself, when she got attacked and raped, correct?

A main road, with some traffic even at that point at night, in a mid-sized town, right?

And you are all saying, that she should have been more cautious, correct?

In your opinion, when is the right time, the right degree of intoxication, the right distance to go, under what circumstances, for you to &lt;deleted&gt; about her "not being cautious enough"?

Is 3 pm convenient, after having a warm milk, dressed in gumboots and a raincoat, carrying a gun or some pepperspray?

Or would she have been okay, with just one beer, but after 6pm?

When would she have been cautious enough for you, so you would blame the only people, who should be blamed: the &lt;deleted&gt; rapists?

Jeeeeeezus Motherfarther Christ!