Warm Wine - Am I wasting my money?

[chingmai331]

Whether the box or the bottle, if container kept closed, except when pouring, no alcohol will escape. Isn't that why you buy?

I like the ice cube idea. Mellow red, with ice, and pizza. Life doesn't get any better.

[smotherb]

wine box at 790B for 4 liters.

It's certainly not very nice on the palette.

Am I wasting my money on wine here, if it is not kept (and probably shipped) properly.

You're buying wine at less than Baht 200 a litre. I don't think storage temperatures are the issue. Maybe it's the quality of cardboard used.

When you mention "palette" and boxed wine in the same paragraph, are you being facetious?

boxed wine never touches any cardboard as it is kept inside a plastic liner bag.

Ah yes, the exquisiteness of plastic.

[superal]

I know of a few friends who buy cheap red wine and mix it 50/50 with cola and served in a long glass with ice . Tried it with my wife who normally drinks a Spy

and she liked it . This idea originated in eastern europe or so I am told and is very popular there .

[Bruzzzz]

Try the Berri Estates Five Star Red (I have not tried the white thus I am unable to recommend). It comes in 3L cask for about 650THB and also bottles. I get it from Foodland Pattaya Klang but have not seen it anywhere else.

It is not 100% clear but it seems the grape is from Berri Estates (grown in Australia) but produced and bottled by Siam Winery Co. Ltd. in Samut Sakhon Thailand??

Anyway, I find it is an acceptable daily swill table wine at an affordable price but be warned that I am only a consumer not a connoisseur.

For the more discerning I recomend the Taylors (Australia) at 715THB per bottle also from Foodland. Sorry for being biased but I am so over experimenting and ultimately pouring costly but vile "piss" down the sink so I prefer to stay with what I know.

However I am open to recommendations. Is there a Wine Forum?

Chok dee krap.

[Bruzzzz]

PS. True, wine can be "cooked" but Foodland is A/C and has high turnover so to date I have not had a bad bottle from them.

[xylophone]

Covering off a few points on this thread, most of which have been dealt with on the "Mont Clair" thread as noted by "topt".........

Just about all of the cask/boxed wine here has had fruit juice added which gets around the high level of tax applicable in this country (for some unexplained reason) and that's why it is so cheap. If it doesn't actually state that fruit juice has been added, then look for the giveaway, "Fruit Wine" mention in small print (this particularly on wines produced by Siam Winery.........Montclair, Peter Vella, Mar-Y-Sol and so on).

In addition, although Australia does not need to add fruit juice to its wine because as a rule there is a huge amount of cheap wine to be had anyway, some wine produced in Australia (both cask and bottled wine) has fruit juice added in Australia and exported to Thailand, and this also is cheap for that reason.

As one poster suggested, there is no telling how long the cask/boxed wine acquired by the OP had been on the shelf of the store and it could well have been past its use by date, usually within one to two years of being boxed (actually there is a date stamp on the box if you look carefully). Heat of course will also be another factor in a small store as this will affect any wine with regards to ageing it prematurely/turning it "off".

Most of the bottled wines containing fruit juice are in the 269 to 299 baht range if they are produced in Thailand (imported grape juice is fermented and fruit juice is added/mixed to produce the final product), whereas some imported from Australia can be up to 499 baht a bottle, so paying more does not actually always mean you get wine which is free of fruit juice. Some of these bottles clearly state on the back label that they have been blended with fruit juice and that is a step in the right direction for the consumer, IMO.

Storing cask/boxed wine in the fridge is a good way to go and you can pour yourself a glass whenever you feel like it and within a few minutes the temperature will have risen to an acceptable level. Too much heat brings out what are called "volatile aromas" in a wine which can spoil it for some folks, others take it as it is.

Cast/boxed wine will start to go off after 6 to 8 weeks, mainly because the wine in these has not been "designed" to age, and because every time the tap is opened, a little air gets into the cask therefore affecting the wine and causing it to age. It has been said that even though the plastic/aluminium coated container shows no signs of leakage, some air actually does penetrate.

There was a wine from Chile which was unadulterated with fruit juice and this was a good everyday drinker to keep in the fridge, however I have been unable to find it for a while, because it was a good standby for the times when I just wanted one glass.

Now I search the supermarkets for "bargains" and reduced prices and have been very lucky in this regard, especially as the GM of a major supermarket chain has said that when they want to clear the shelves of a few brands of wine, they just surreptitiously lower the price without bringing any attention to it, because they are not allowed to advertise it, and I have been able to buy reasonable wines like Taylors Promised Land for around 399 baht a bottle.

In addition I have a contact in wine distribution here and I often get offers to buy surplus stock, which I jump at, purchasing some really good wines at about 400 baht a bottle when they are available.

Finally, as regards the "screwtop" debate, certainly many countries have adopted this technique, which was first produced and trialled in Australia, because of the problem with cork taint and spoiled wine, and much of the wine in Australia and New Zealand is now bottled with these, the best being called "Stelvin".

It has been said that Chateaux Margaux are currently investigating screw tops for their wine, and that would certainly be a major milestone.

Edited May 30, 2015 by xylophone

[Anthony5]

Try the Berri Estates Five Star Red (I have not tried the white thus I am unable to recommend). It comes in 3L cask for about 650THB and also bottles. I get it from Foodland Pattaya Klang but have not seen it anywhere else.

It is not 100% clear but it seems the grape is from Berri Estates (grown in Australia) but produced and bottled by Siam Winery Co. Ltd. in Samut Sakhon Thailand??

Anyway, I find it is an acceptable daily swill table wine at an affordable price but be warned that I am only a consumer not a connoisseur.

For the more discerning I recomend the Taylors (Australia) at 715THB per bottle also from Foodland. Sorry for being biased but I am so over experimenting and ultimately pouring costly but vile "piss" down the sink so I prefer to stay with what I know.

However I am open to recommendations. Is there a Wine Forum?

Chok dee krap.

but produced and bottled by Siam Winery Co. Ltd. in Samut Sakhon Thailand??

And that is where it stopped to be wine.

[Anthony5]

Covering off a few points on this thread, most of which have been dealt with on the "Mont Clair" thread as noted by "topt".........

Just about all of the cask/boxed wine here has had fruit juice added which gets around the high level of tax applicable in this country (for some unexplained reason) and that's why it is so cheap. If it doesn't actually state that fruit juice has been added, then look for the giveaway, "Fruit Wine" mention in small print (this particularly on wines produced by Siam Winery.........Montclair, Peter Vella, Mar-Y-Sol and so on).

In addition, although Australia does not need to add fruit juice to its wine because as a rule there is a huge amount of cheap wine to be had anyway, some wine produced in Australia (both cask and bottled wine) has fruit juice added in Australia and exported to Thailand, and this also is cheap for that reason.

As one poster suggested, there is no telling how long the cask/boxed wine acquired by the OP had been on the shelf of the store and it could well have been past its use by date, usually within one to two years of being boxed (actually there is a date stamp on the box if you look carefully). Heat of course will also be another factor in a small store as this will affect any wine with regards to ageing it prematurely/turning it "off".

Most of the bottled wines containing fruit juice are in the 269 to 299 baht range if they are produced in Thailand (imported grape juice is fermented and fruit juice is added/mixed to produce the final product), whereas some imported from Australia can be up to 499 baht a bottle, so paying more does not actually always mean you get wine which is free of fruit juice. Some of these bottles clearly state on the back label that they have been blended with fruit juice and that is a step in the right direction for the consumer, IMO.

Storing cask/boxed wine in the fridge is a good way to go and you can pour yourself a glass whenever you feel like it and within a few minutes the temperature will have risen to an acceptable level. Too much heat brings out what are called "volatile aromas" in a wine which can spoil it for some folks, others take it as it is.

Cast/boxed wine will start to go off after 6 to 8 weeks, mainly because the wine in these has not been "designed" to age, and because every time the tap is opened, a little air gets into the cask therefore affecting the wine and causing it to age. It has been said that even though the plastic/aluminium coated container shows no signs of leakage, some air actually does penetrate.

There was a wine from Chile which was unadulterated with fruit juice and this was a good everyday drinker to keep in the fridge, however I have been unable to find it for a while, because it was a good standby for the times when I just wanted one glass.

Now I search the supermarkets for "bargains" and reduced prices and have been very lucky in this regard, especially as the GM of a major supermarket chain has said that when they want to clear the shelves of a few brands of wine, they just surreptitiously lower the price without bringing any attention to it, because they are not allowed to advertise it, and I have been able to buy reasonable wines like Taylors Promised Land for around 399 baht a bottle.

In addition I have a contact in wine distribution here and I often get offers to buy surplus stock, which I jump at, purchasing some really good wines at about 400 baht a bottle when they are available.

Finally, as regards the "screwtop" debate, certainly many countries have adopted this technique, which was first produced and trialled in Australia, because of the problem with cork taint and spoiled wine, and much of the wine in Australia and New Zealand is now bottled with these, the best being called "Stelvin Enclosures".

It has been said that Chateaux Margaux are currently investigating screw tops for their wine, and that would certainly be a major milestone.

And how about importing grape juice from those respective countries and adding alcohol to them?

I have empty 250 L drums I bought on a plastic yard, and they have clearly printed on them that they were used to import grape juice. They even have the countries imprinted on them.

[Bruzzzz]

I've never understood why the thais haven't picked up on the massive shift from beer to wine in Europe and taken advantage of it - I love my red wine but there's no way I'm paying 1,000 baht for a crap bottle of Jacobs Creek !

Big missed opportunity - hopefully the penny will drop one day

Most of the Australian wine I see for sale in Thailand is only about 200THB equivalent in Australia and is at the bottom end of the market and is rubbish and is a waste of money but still is several times that price here. We are getting ripped off but options are few.

[Anthony5]

There was a wine from Chile which was unadulterated with fruit juice and this was a good everyday drinker to keep in the fridge, however I have been unable to find it for a while, because it was a good standby for the times when I just wanted one glass.

What was the name of that wine?

[xylophone]

Covering off a few points on this thread, most of which have been dealt with on the "Mont Clair" thread as noted by "topt".........

Just about all of the cask/boxed wine here has had fruit juice added which gets around the high level of tax applicable in this country (for some unexplained reason) and that's why it is so cheap. If it doesn't actually state that fruit juice has been added, then look for the giveaway, "Fruit Wine" mention in small print (this particularly on wines produced by Siam Winery.........Montclair, Peter Vella, Mar-Y-Sol and so on).

In addition, although Australia does not need to add fruit juice to its wine because as a rule there is a huge amount of cheap wine to be had anyway, some wine produced in Australia (both cask and bottled wine) has fruit juice added in Australia and exported to Thailand, and this also is cheap for that reason.

As one poster suggested, there is no telling how long the cask/boxed wine acquired by the OP had been on the shelf of the store and it could well have been past its use by date, usually within one to two years of being boxed (actually there is a date stamp on the box if you look carefully). Heat of course will also be another factor in a small store as this will affect any wine with regards to ageing it prematurely/turning it "off".

Most of the bottled wines containing fruit juice are in the 269 to 299 baht range if they are produced in Thailand (imported grape juice is fermented and fruit juice is added/mixed to produce the final product), whereas some imported from Australia can be up to 499 baht a bottle, so paying more does not actually always mean you get wine which is free of fruit juice. Some of these bottles clearly state on the back label that they have been blended with fruit juice and that is a step in the right direction for the consumer, IMO.

Storing cask/boxed wine in the fridge is a good way to go and you can pour yourself a glass whenever you feel like it and within a few minutes the temperature will have risen to an acceptable level. Too much heat brings out what are called "volatile aromas" in a wine which can spoil it for some folks, others take it as it is.

Cast/boxed wine will start to go off after 6 to 8 weeks, mainly because the wine in these has not been "designed" to age, and because every time the tap is opened, a little air gets into the cask therefore affecting the wine and causing it to age. It has been said that even though the plastic/aluminium coated container shows no signs of leakage, some air actually does penetrate.

There was a wine from Chile which was unadulterated with fruit juice and this was a good everyday drinker to keep in the fridge, however I have been unable to find it for a while, because it was a good standby for the times when I just wanted one glass.

Now I search the supermarkets for "bargains" and reduced prices and have been very lucky in this regard, especially as the GM of a major supermarket chain has said that when they want to clear the shelves of a few brands of wine, they just surreptitiously lower the price without bringing any attention to it, because they are not allowed to advertise it, and I have been able to buy reasonable wines like Taylors Promised Land for around 399 baht a bottle.

In addition I have a contact in wine distribution here and I often get offers to buy surplus stock, which I jump at, purchasing some really good wines at about 400 baht a bottle when they are available.

Finally, as regards the "screwtop" debate, certainly many countries have adopted this technique, which was first produced and trialled in Australia, because of the problem with cork taint and spoiled wine, and much of the wine in Australia and New Zealand is now bottled with these, the best being called "Stelvin Enclosures".

It has been said that Chateaux Margaux are currently investigating screw tops for their wine, and that would certainly be a major milestone.

And how about importing grape juice from those respective countries and adding alcohol to them?

I have empty 250 L drums I bought on a plastic yard, and they have clearly printed on them that they were used to import grape juice. They even have the countries imprinted on them.

Not sure if I have quite got this right as regards your question Anthony5, but usually grape juice is imported and then fermented to produce the alcohol, rather than alcohol being added to it. Although I did hear it suggested on another thread that one particular wine seller here had "wine" produced in Vietnam which had added alcohol to it, but perhaps that was just to give the alcohol content a little boost?

I'd be interested to know what countries were imprinted on these plastic drums, in order to increase my knowledge of such practices!

[xylophone]

There was a wine from Chile which was unadulterated with fruit juice and this was a good everyday drinker to keep in the fridge, however I have been unable to find it for a while, because it was a good standby for the times when I just wanted one glass.

What was the name of that wine?

That wine was "Bodegas Centenarus" (spelling?) from Chile...............but beware there is a wine called "Bodegas Valley" in a similar cask/box which is actually Australian and that does have fruit juice added to it!!!

[spidermike007]

Red wine is intended to be consumed cool. Around 67 degrees F. In a climate like this, room temperature wine can be a real assault to the senses. Even good wine does not taste great at that temp. And the truly poor wine you were drinking taste far worse at 89 degrees F. Also, what little that wine had to offer is probably gone, after sitting in a hot store for awhile. I would stick with buying from the supermarkets, where the AC offers some stability.

Edited May 30, 2015 by spidermike007

[xylophone]

Try the Berri Estates Five Star Red (I have not tried the white thus I am unable to recommend). It comes in 3L cask for about 650THB and also bottles. I get it from Foodland Pattaya Klang but have not seen it anywhere else.

It is not 100% clear but it seems the grape is from Berri Estates (grown in Australia) but produced and bottled by Siam Winery Co. Ltd. in Samut Sakhon Thailand??

Anyway, I find it is an acceptable daily swill table wine at an affordable price but be warned that I am only a consumer not a connoisseur.

For the more discerning I recomend the Taylors (Australia) at 715THB per bottle also from Foodland. Sorry for being biased but I am so over experimenting and ultimately pouring costly but vile "piss" down the sink so I prefer to stay with what I know.

However I am open to recommendations. Is there a Wine Forum?

Chok dee krap.

Quote "Bruzzzz": "Is there a wine forum?"

Sort of........... on the Montclair wine thread, a link to which was included in the post by "topt" a few posts ago.

All sorts of things have been discussed on this thread and not just Montclair wine, and it covers just about everything about wine, age, temperature, corks, closures, labelling, tax in Thailand, the addition of fruit juice, taste, palates, age of wine and has many contributors with regards to their wine experiences and information.

Well worth a look if you are interested in wine.

[Anthony5]

Covering off a few points on this thread, most of which have been dealt with on the "Mont Clair" thread as noted by "topt".........

Just about all of the cask/boxed wine here has had fruit juice added which gets around the high level of tax applicable in this country (for some unexplained reason) and that's why it is so cheap. If it doesn't actually state that fruit juice has been added, then look for the giveaway, "Fruit Wine" mention in small print (this particularly on wines produced by Siam Winery.........Montclair, Peter Vella, Mar-Y-Sol and so on).

In addition, although Australia does not need to add fruit juice to its wine because as a rule there is a huge amount of cheap wine to be had anyway, some wine produced in Australia (both cask and bottled wine) has fruit juice added in Australia and exported to Thailand, and this also is cheap for that reason.

As one poster suggested, there is no telling how long the cask/boxed wine acquired by the OP had been on the shelf of the store and it could well have been past its use by date, usually within one to two years of being boxed (actually there is a date stamp on the box if you look carefully). Heat of course will also be another factor in a small store as this will affect any wine with regards to ageing it prematurely/turning it "off".

Most of the bottled wines containing fruit juice are in the 269 to 299 baht range if they are produced in Thailand (imported grape juice is fermented and fruit juice is added/mixed to produce the final product), whereas some imported from Australia can be up to 499 baht a bottle, so paying more does not actually always mean you get wine which is free of fruit juice. Some of these bottles clearly state on the back label that they have been blended with fruit juice and that is a step in the right direction for the consumer, IMO.

Storing cask/boxed wine in the fridge is a good way to go and you can pour yourself a glass whenever you feel like it and within a few minutes the temperature will have risen to an acceptable level. Too much heat brings out what are called "volatile aromas" in a wine which can spoil it for some folks, others take it as it is.

Cast/boxed wine will start to go off after 6 to 8 weeks, mainly because the wine in these has not been "designed" to age, and because every time the tap is opened, a little air gets into the cask therefore affecting the wine and causing it to age. It has been said that even though the plastic/aluminium coated container shows no signs of leakage, some air actually does penetrate.

There was a wine from Chile which was unadulterated with fruit juice and this was a good everyday drinker to keep in the fridge, however I have been unable to find it for a while, because it was a good standby for the times when I just wanted one glass.

Now I search the supermarkets for "bargains" and reduced prices and have been very lucky in this regard, especially as the GM of a major supermarket chain has said that when they want to clear the shelves of a few brands of wine, they just surreptitiously lower the price without bringing any attention to it, because they are not allowed to advertise it, and I have been able to buy reasonable wines like Taylors Promised Land for around 399 baht a bottle.

In addition I have a contact in wine distribution here and I often get offers to buy surplus stock, which I jump at, purchasing some really good wines at about 400 baht a bottle when they are available.

Finally, as regards the "screwtop" debate, certainly many countries have adopted this technique, which was first produced and trialled in Australia, because of the problem with cork taint and spoiled wine, and much of the wine in Australia and New Zealand is now bottled with these, the best being called "Stelvin Enclosures".

It has been said that Chateaux Margaux are currently investigating screw tops for their wine, and that would certainly be a major milestone.

And how about importing grape juice from those respective countries and adding alcohol to them?

I have empty 250 L drums I bought on a plastic yard, and they have clearly printed on them that they were used to import grape juice. They even have the countries imprinted on them.

Not sure if I have quite got this right as regards your question Anthony5, but usually grape juice is imported and then fermented to produce the alcohol, rather than alcohol being added to it. Although I did hear it suggested on another thread that one particular wine seller here had "wine" produced in Vietnam which had added alcohol to it, but perhaps that was just to give the alcohol content a little boost?

I'd be interested to know what countries were imprinted on these plastic drums, in order to increase my knowledge of such practices!

Belgium and Turkey.

[mango66]

I have yet to find a "boxed" wine here in Thailand that isn't mixed with "fruit" to get around the tax requirements

I would even be willing to pay extra for real wine in a box, just for the convenience but alas have never found any

I have seen this comment of added fruit on many threads,. Unfortunately, these get blown out of proportion. Their are many fruit wines in the world. Real wine would never have fruit added, or flavors of fruit added to the wines. Flavors & aromas come from the terroir of the area, as well as the yeast used to turn the sugars into alcohol, and it would be illegal in their country without it be clearly identified on the label. In California, since their climate is ideal for obtaining proper sugar levels before the pick, does not allow any additive to a wine, even sugar. I doubt that any winery from Australia would include any additions other than those wines built to be fruit wines. France, because of their shorter growing season, is allowed to add sugar, because this is necessary for obtain alcohol during fermentation. This does not mean that the sugars remain in the wines. The yeast will consume all of the sugar by changing it into alcohol, making it a dry wine, without residual sugar. I do find in many Australian wines, and California wines, a minty flavor that is caused by the vineyards being surrounded by eucalyptus trees, and the trees drop the these flavors and aromas from their leaves. But it is not added on purpose, but due to terroir. Terroir = relationship of the vines to the sun, how many hours of sunlight received daily, change of temp between night & day, soils, surroundings, humidity, length of time of the season, are just some of the factors.

if you drink boxed wines of financial reasons,

you will not, and have not to look at such details !

[topt]

I've never understood why the thais haven't picked up on the massive shift from beer to wine in Europe and taken advantage of it - I love my red wine but there's no way I'm paying 1,000 baht for a crap bottle of Jacobs Creek !

Big missed opportunity - hopefully the penny will drop one day

Maybe being pedantic as I understand where you are coming from but the "crap" Jacobs Creek is only around 600/700 baht a bottle - 585 in Makro I think?

Unfortunately I don't think reducing the taxes even by half is going to shift the average Thai from their poison of choice to wine so no real reason for the govt. to do so.

[DDbkh]

Mont Clair like all the 'vino collapso' boxed wines says on the label that it includes fruit juice - it gets around the import duty and tax.

The crazy thing that the Thai authorities refuse to acknowledge is that the high price at retail for wine is counterproductive for everyone. A few years ago the Hong Kong govt recognized that the small amount of tax raised on imported wine did not justify the expense of the system. It also realized that the eye-watering cost prevented people buying wine forcing down the tax collected and putting people off visiting HK.

In Thailand, much of the reasoning for high duty is based on excessive drinking and driving - but as we know over 80% of vehicle accidents involve motorcycles and pickup trucks not the normal market for imported fine wines (TV members excluded).

Tourists would undoubtedly spend more on wine if it was available at a reasonable price which would benefit everybody in the food chain - including Customs and Excise.

[mango66]

warm wine we drink in Winter -

heated up with some spices -

called " Gluehwein "

you feel your body heats up in the cold !

Otherwise, when we talk about red wine and room temperature

we mean room temperature of around 16-18 Celsius which is good for red wine -

( not a 28 room temperature in tropic countries )

White wine must be colder served - 12 - 14 degree celsius - if its agood wine- it will taste;

Storage - temperature is important - 6 celsius is perfect - 12 hrs - 365 days !

temp in storage should never change !!

all what goes up to sunlight and outside temperature worsens the quality of any wine;

Would you drink a beer on room temp of 28 ??

If a white wine gets brown colour - it is a damaged wine and only for the sink !!

( open to air and or too much sunlight !

In Thailand most wines are not stored correctly !!

Same like thai can drink a Cognac with ice !!

Last time for my birthday a bought a bottle of hennesy,

first what my sister in law asked, where is ice and soda :-((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((

To one quote: You can find also a good red wine in a box,

I think it was from SA - by a visit of my friend from Norway !

[stoli]

Covering off a few points on this thread, most of which have been dealt with on the "Mont Clair" thread as noted by "topt".........

Just about all of the cask/boxed wine here has had fruit juice added which gets around the high level of tax applicable in this country (for some unexplained reason) and that's why it is so cheap. If it doesn't actually state that fruit juice has been added, then look for the giveaway, "Fruit Wine" mention in small print (this particularly on wines produced by Siam Winery.........Montclair, Peter Vella, Mar-Y-Sol and so on).

In addition, although Australia does not need to add fruit juice to its wine because as a rule there is a huge amount of cheap wine to be had anyway, some wine produced in Australia (both cask and bottled wine) has fruit juice added in Australia and exported to Thailand, and this also is cheap for that reason.

As one poster suggested, there is no telling how long the cask/boxed wine acquired by the OP had been on the shelf of the store and it could well have been past its use by date, usually within one to two years of being boxed (actually there is a date stamp on the box if you look carefully). Heat of course will also be another factor in a small store as this will affect any wine with regards to ageing it prematurely/turning it "off".

Most of the bottled wines containing fruit juice are in the 269 to 299 baht range if they are produced in Thailand (imported grape juice is fermented and fruit juice is added/mixed to produce the final product), whereas some imported from Australia can be up to 499 baht a bottle, so paying more does not actually always mean you get wine which is free of fruit juice. Some of these bottles clearly state on the back label that they have been blended with fruit juice and that is a step in the right direction for the consumer, IMO.

Storing cask/boxed wine in the fridge is a good way to go and you can pour yourself a glass whenever you feel like it and within a few minutes the temperature will have risen to an acceptable level. Too much heat brings out what are called "volatile aromas" in a wine which can spoil it for some folks, others take it as it is.

Cast/boxed wine will start to go off after 6 to 8 weeks, mainly because the wine in these has not been "designed" to age, and because every time the tap is opened, a little air gets into the cask therefore affecting the wine and causing it to age. It has been said that even though the plastic/aluminium coated container shows no signs of leakage, some air actually does penetrate.

There was a wine from Chile which was unadulterated with fruit juice and this was a good everyday drinker to keep in the fridge, however I have been unable to find it for a while, because it was a good standby for the times when I just wanted one glass.

Now I search the supermarkets for "bargains" and reduced prices and have been very lucky in this regard, especially as the GM of a major supermarket chain has said that when they want to clear the shelves of a few brands of wine, they just surreptitiously lower the price without bringing any attention to it, because they are not allowed to advertise it, and I have been able to buy reasonable wines like Taylors Promised Land for around 399 baht a bottle.

In addition I have a contact in wine distribution here and I often get offers to buy surplus stock, which I jump at, purchasing some really good wines at about 400 baht a bottle when they are available.

Finally, as regards the "screwtop" debate, certainly many countries have adopted this technique, which was first produced and trialled in Australia, because of the problem with cork taint and spoiled wine, and much of the wine in Australia and New Zealand is now bottled with these, the best being called "Stelvin".

It has been said that Chateaux Margaux are currently investigating screw tops for their wine, and that would certainly be a major milestone.

Well written, but I would take some issue with your comment about oxygen going into boxed wine. That is the beauty of having the bladder in the box. As the wine is removed, glass by glass, the bladder collapses onto itself, not allowing air into it. There is no vacuum action causing anything to be sucked into the bag. The tube inside the box leading to the nozzle is full of wine, making the option of air going in to be extremely difficult. Tear the box open after you have finished the wine. You will find the bag completely collapsed, without air.

[mango66]

warm wine we drink in Winter -

heated up with some spices -

called " Gluehwein "

you feel your body heats up in the cold !

Otherwise, when we talk about red wine and room temperature

we mean room temperature of around 16-18 Celsius which is good for red wine -

( not a 28 room temperature in tropic countries )

White wine must be colder served - 12 - 14 degree celsius - if its agood wine- it will taste;

Storage - temperature is important - 6 celsius is perfect - 12 hrs - 365 days !

temp in storage should never change !!

all what goes up to sunlight and outside temperature worsens the quality of any wine;

Would you drink a beer on room temp of 28 ??

If a white wine gets brown colour - it is a damaged wine and only for the sink !!

( open to air and or too much sunlight !

In Thailand most wines are not stored correctly !!

Same like thai can drink a Cognac with ice !!

Last time for my birthday a bought a bottle of hennesy,

first what my sister in law asked, where is ice and soda :-((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((

To one quote: You can find also a good red wine in a box,

I think it was from SA - by a visit of my friend from Norway !

[Shiver]

I've noticed with the Mont Clair box that it can taste different depending on where I've bought it (presumably storage, or maybe batch differences). I'm not sure I'd want to call it wine, but I do drink it. I tried one last week that was a little nasty and wondered what "room temperature" should be. Google sites suggest 15-16C, so we're screwed here.

Although there were differences with what I would expect to be a stock factory process blended product, It wasn't bad in the way that some can be absolutely foul (I have often brought wine back with me when travelling various countries and just play lucky dip sometimes with wines I've never tasted). The absolute worst I ever had (narrowly beating Czech Republic) was laughably called "Chateau de Loei" as a gift for doing someone a favour who was a non wine drinker (had to learn a new Thai smile to show appreciation that time - probably looked like I'd just had botox!), which after one sip and splurt got put straight down the sink - and believe me I don't like wasting wine, it really was undrinkable. I just think "ah well, in 20 years time they will hopefully be past the experimentation phase and come out with some decent stuff", like has happened in other parts of the world where it's starts out duff, but eventually manages to reinvent itself into something quite respectable.

As for oxygenation, although this will sound very lo-so, I found that getting two pint glasses, or whatever can contain the whole bottle, and pouring the wine between them for a minute or so will soften it quickly, assuming you're going to finish the whole bottle that day. If not intending to use the whole bottle then maybe one of those rubber corks with a vacuum syringe might be available somewhere here, though I've never searched.

Edited May 30, 2015 by Shiver

[Mudcrab]

Covering off a few points on this thread, most of which have been dealt with on the "Mont Clair" thread as noted by "topt".........

Just about all of the cask/boxed wine here has had fruit juice added which gets around the high level of tax applicable in this country (for some unexplained reason) and that's why it is so cheap. If it doesn't actually state that fruit juice has been added, then look for the giveaway, "Fruit Wine" mention in small print (this particularly on wines produced by Siam Winery.........Montclair, Peter Vella, Mar-Y-Sol and so on).

In addition, although Australia does not need to add fruit juice to its wine because as a rule there is a huge amount of cheap wine to be had anyway, some wine produced in Australia (both cask and bottled wine) has fruit juice added in Australia and exported to Thailand, and this also is cheap for that reason.

As one poster suggested, there is no telling how long the cask/boxed wine acquired by the OP had been on the shelf of the store and it could well have been past its use by date, usually within one to two years of being boxed (actually there is a date stamp on the box if you look carefully). Heat of course will also be another factor in a small store as this will affect any wine with regards to ageing it prematurely/turning it "off".

Most of the bottled wines containing fruit juice are in the 269 to 299 baht range if they are produced in Thailand (imported grape juice is fermented and fruit juice is added/mixed to produce the final product), whereas some imported from Australia can be up to 499 baht a bottle, so paying more does not actually always mean you get wine which is free of fruit juice. Some of these bottles clearly state on the back label that they have been blended with fruit juice and that is a step in the right direction for the consumer, IMO.

Storing cask/boxed wine in the fridge is a good way to go and you can pour yourself a glass whenever you feel like it and within a few minutes the temperature will have risen to an acceptable level. Too much heat brings out what are called "volatile aromas" in a wine which can spoil it for some folks, others take it as it is.

Cast/boxed wine will start to go off after 6 to 8 weeks, mainly because the wine in these has not been "designed" to age, and because every time the tap is opened, a little air gets into the cask therefore affecting the wine and causing it to age. It has been said that even though the plastic/aluminium coated container shows no signs of leakage, some air actually does penetrate.

There was a wine from Chile which was unadulterated with fruit juice and this was a good everyday drinker to keep in the fridge, however I have been unable to find it for a while, because it was a good standby for the times when I just wanted one glass.

Now I search the supermarkets for "bargains" and reduced prices and have been very lucky in this regard, especially as the GM of a major supermarket chain has said that when they want to clear the shelves of a few brands of wine, they just surreptitiously lower the price without bringing any attention to it, because they are not allowed to advertise it, and I have been able to buy reasonable wines like Taylors Promised Land for around 399 baht a bottle.

In addition I have a contact in wine distribution here and I often get offers to buy surplus stock, which I jump at, purchasing some really good wines at about 400 baht a bottle when they are available.

Finally, as regards the "screwtop" debate, certainly many countries have adopted this technique, which was first produced and trialled in Australia, because of the problem with cork taint and spoiled wine, and much of the wine in Australia and New Zealand is now bottled with these, the best being called "Stelvin".

It has been said that Chateaux Margaux are currently investigating screw tops for their wine, and that would certainly be a major milestone.

Well written, but I would take some issue with your comment about oxygen going into boxed wine. That is the beauty of having the bladder in the box. As the wine is removed, glass by glass, the bladder collapses onto itself, not allowing air into it. There is no vacuum action causing anything to be sucked into the bag. The tube inside the box leading to the nozzle is full of wine, making the option of air going in to be extremely difficult. Tear the box open after you have finished the wine. You will find the bag completely collapsed, without air.

And when one's palate is sufficed, said bladder can be blown up and used as a pillow...especially useful if the local wine appreciation society meeting happens to be on the beach.

Chateau cardboard....another Aussie gift to the world!

Edited May 30, 2015 by Mudcrab

[humqdpf]

Red wine should be stored at 18 degrees C to be served at European room temp, usually not higher than low to mid twenties C.

In theory, there is nothing wrong with boxed wine but some are better than others. Experiment with them and find out which is the best one.

If you are buying bottles of wine, get them from a reputable source and avoid any Thai wine.

I also found that some bottled wine sometimes needs to be decanted and aired before consumption. I discovered this when I opened a bottle of quality wine and it did not taste great and left it open for 24 hours. When I tasted it again, it was really nice. You can speed up this process by decanting the wine into a proper decanter and swirl it around to aerate it.

As long as you are living in a city which has a few decent wine shops, you don't need to give up on wine when living in Thailand. In Vientiane, Laos, I found that there were a few good wine shops too. It pays to look around. If you don't live in a city, gas up the vehicle and buy in bulk - perhaps you should try and find out where the wholesaler/importer is, if you are keen to get a better discount.

[xylophone]

Covering off a few points on this thread, most of which have been dealt with on the "Mont Clair" thread as noted by "topt".........

Just about all of the cask/boxed wine here has had fruit juice added which gets around the high level of tax applicable in this country (for some unexplained reason) and that's why it is so cheap. If it doesn't actually state that fruit juice has been added, then look for the giveaway, "Fruit Wine" mention in small print (this particularly on wines produced by Siam Winery.........Montclair, Peter Vella, Mar-Y-Sol and so on).

In addition, although Australia does not need to add fruit juice to its wine because as a rule there is a huge amount of cheap wine to be had anyway, some wine produced in Australia (both cask and bottled wine) has fruit juice added in Australia and exported to Thailand, and this also is cheap for that reason.

As one poster suggested, there is no telling how long the cask/boxed wine acquired by the OP had been on the shelf of the store and it could well have been past its use by date, usually within one to two years of being boxed (actually there is a date stamp on the box if you look carefully). Heat of course will also be another factor in a small store as this will affect any wine with regards to ageing it prematurely/turning it "off".

Most of the bottled wines containing fruit juice are in the 269 to 299 baht range if they are produced in Thailand (imported grape juice is fermented and fruit juice is added/mixed to produce the final product), whereas some imported from Australia can be up to 499 baht a bottle, so paying more does not actually always mean you get wine which is free of fruit juice. Some of these bottles clearly state on the back label that they have been blended with fruit juice and that is a step in the right direction for the consumer, IMO.

Storing cask/boxed wine in the fridge is a good way to go and you can pour yourself a glass whenever you feel like it and within a few minutes the temperature will have risen to an acceptable level. Too much heat brings out what are called "volatile aromas" in a wine which can spoil it for some folks, others take it as it is.

Cast/boxed wine will start to go off after 6 to 8 weeks, mainly because the wine in these has not been "designed" to age, and because every time the tap is opened, a little air gets into the cask therefore affecting the wine and causing it to age. It has been said that even though the plastic/aluminium coated container shows no signs of leakage, some air actually does penetrate.

There was a wine from Chile which was unadulterated with fruit juice and this was a good everyday drinker to keep in the fridge, however I have been unable to find it for a while, because it was a good standby for the times when I just wanted one glass.

Now I search the supermarkets for "bargains" and reduced prices and have been very lucky in this regard, especially as the GM of a major supermarket chain has said that when they want to clear the shelves of a few brands of wine, they just surreptitiously lower the price without bringing any attention to it, because they are not allowed to advertise it, and I have been able to buy reasonable wines like Taylors Promised Land for around 399 baht a bottle.

In addition I have a contact in wine distribution here and I often get offers to buy surplus stock, which I jump at, purchasing some really good wines at about 400 baht a bottle when they are available.

Finally, as regards the "screwtop" debate, certainly many countries have adopted this technique, which was first produced and trialled in Australia, because of the problem with cork taint and spoiled wine, and much of the wine in Australia and New Zealand is now bottled with these, the best being called "Stelvin".

It has been said that Chateaux Margaux are currently investigating screw tops for their wine, and that would certainly be a major milestone.

Well written, but I would take some issue with your comment about oxygen going into boxed wine. That is the beauty of having the bladder in the box. As the wine is removed, glass by glass, the bladder collapses onto itself, not allowing air into it. There is no vacuum action causing anything to be sucked into the bag. The tube inside the box leading to the nozzle is full of wine, making the option of air going in to be extremely difficult. Tear the box open after you have finished the wine. You will find the bag completely collapsed, without air.

Thank you for your compliment, much appreciated, especially from another wine enthusiast.

It has been established that some air does in fact find its way into the bladder, and that is the reason why the wine will stay drinkable for 12 months or more if unopened, yet on the box it says that the wine should be consumed within six weeks of opening, and that is because some air does find its way in, which leads to eventual deterioration of the wine.

In addition, as I mentioned, it has been suggested that some air does permeate the bladder/membrane over time and of course this does not help with the keeping qualities of the wine.

Having said that, I have nothing against "a good everyday swigging red wine" being put in a cask for casual consumption, provided that it does not have fruit juice added to it. However that is just me, and many folk enjoy the occasional glass of cask wine, even with the fruit juice, and as we all have different tastes, then that's fine.

[xylophone]

Quote Shiver: "As for oxygenation, although this will sound very lo-so, I found that getting two pint glasses, or whatever can contain the whole bottle, and pouring the wine between them for a minute or so will soften it quickly, assuming you're going to finish the whole bottle that day. If not intending to use the whole bottle then maybe one of those rubber corks with a vacuum syringe might be available somewhere here, though I've never searched".

Not "lo-so" at all, because you are in fact aerating the wine, which is what decanting does and it can often improve the taste of the wine, bringing flavours to the fore. Decanting is used especially on fine wines, however I have also found that even the everyday drinking wine improves with a little aeration.

I have used one of the vacuum syringes with the rubber corks for some 20 years and found them to be very useful, especially if you get to know a few of the tricks when using them, and they are available here as I have seen them in Big C and wine shops.

[xylophone]

Covering off a few points on this thread, most of which have been dealt with on the "Mont Clair" thread as noted by "topt".........

Just about all of the cask/boxed wine here has had fruit juice added which gets around the high level of tax applicable in this country (for some unexplained reason) and that's why it is so cheap. If it doesn't actually state that fruit juice has been added, then look for the giveaway, "Fruit Wine" mention in small print (this particularly on wines produced by Siam Winery.........Montclair, Peter Vella, Mar-Y-Sol and so on).

In addition, although Australia does not need to add fruit juice to its wine because as a rule there is a huge amount of cheap wine to be had anyway, some wine produced in Australia (both cask and bottled wine) has fruit juice added in Australia and exported to Thailand, and this also is cheap for that reason.

As one poster suggested, there is no telling how long the cask/boxed wine acquired by the OP had been on the shelf of the store and it could well have been past its use by date, usually within one to two years of being boxed (actually there is a date stamp on the box if you look carefully). Heat of course will also be another factor in a small store as this will affect any wine with regards to ageing it prematurely/turning it "off".

Most of the bottled wines containing fruit juice are in the 269 to 299 baht range if they are produced in Thailand (imported grape juice is fermented and fruit juice is added/mixed to produce the final product), whereas some imported from Australia can be up to 499 baht a bottle, so paying more does not actually always mean you get wine which is free of fruit juice. Some of these bottles clearly state on the back label that they have been blended with fruit juice and that is a step in the right direction for the consumer, IMO.

Storing cask/boxed wine in the fridge is a good way to go and you can pour yourself a glass whenever you feel like it and within a few minutes the temperature will have risen to an acceptable level. Too much heat brings out what are called "volatile aromas" in a wine which can spoil it for some folks, others take it as it is.

Cast/boxed wine will start to go off after 6 to 8 weeks, mainly because the wine in these has not been "designed" to age, and because every time the tap is opened, a little air gets into the cask therefore affecting the wine and causing it to age. It has been said that even though the plastic/aluminium coated container shows no signs of leakage, some air actually does penetrate.

There was a wine from Chile which was unadulterated with fruit juice and this was a good everyday drinker to keep in the fridge, however I have been unable to find it for a while, because it was a good standby for the times when I just wanted one glass.

Now I search the supermarkets for "bargains" and reduced prices and have been very lucky in this regard, especially as the GM of a major supermarket chain has said that when they want to clear the shelves of a few brands of wine, they just surreptitiously lower the price without bringing any attention to it, because they are not allowed to advertise it, and I have been able to buy reasonable wines like Taylors Promised Land for around 399 baht a bottle.

In addition I have a contact in wine distribution here and I often get offers to buy surplus stock, which I jump at, purchasing some really good wines at about 400 baht a bottle when they are available.

Finally, as regards the "screwtop" debate, certainly many countries have adopted this technique, which was first produced and trialled in Australia, because of the problem with cork taint and spoiled wine, and much of the wine in Australia and New Zealand is now bottled with these, the best being called "Stelvin".

It has been said that Chateaux Margaux are currently investigating screw tops for their wine, and that would certainly be a major milestone.

Well written, but I would take some issue with your comment about oxygen going into boxed wine. That is the beauty of having the bladder in the box. As the wine is removed, glass by glass, the bladder collapses onto itself, not allowing air into it. There is no vacuum action causing anything to be sucked into the bag. The tube inside the box leading to the nozzle is full of wine, making the option of air going in to be extremely difficult. Tear the box open after you have finished the wine. You will find the bag completely collapsed, without air.

And when one's palate is sufficed, said bladder can be blown up and used as a pillow...especially useful if the local wine appreciation society meeting happens to be on the beach.

Chateau cardboard....another Aussie gift to the world!

Well the sad truth of the matter is that if you have lived anywhere in Europe over the past 30 to 50 years, then you could have been drinking wine from a bottle which was very inferior to that which could be purchased in a cask from Australia.

There was some truly awful rubbish being bottled in France, Italy and Spain to name the main offenders, and shipped overseas to what was seen as an ever grateful market for that product. The problem being that Australia came on the market with its fruit driven wines and also later on, the casks, and changed the grand order of things.

But the damage was done, and wine buyers started to look elsewhere for their everyday wine and opened up markets from Australia, New Zealand, Chile, Argentina and the USA. The only good thing was that those aforementioned European countries started to get their act together and passed laws with regard to the wines, and also encouraged the pulling up of "inferior vines" to be replaced by better varieties.

So the good old cask wine, when not adulterated by fruit juice, would be more than a match for the everyday plonk from the old days, by a long shot.............and I'm not an Aussie!!

[stoli]

Covering off a few points on this thread, most of which have been dealt with on the "Mont Clair" thread as noted by "topt".........

Just about all of the cask/boxed wine here has had fruit juice added which gets around the high level of tax applicable in this country (for some unexplained reason) and that's why it is so cheap. If it doesn't actually state that fruit juice has been added, then look for the giveaway, "Fruit Wine" mention in small print (this particularly on wines produced by Siam Winery.........Montclair, Peter Vella, Mar-Y-Sol and so on).

In addition, although Australia does not need to add fruit juice to its wine because as a rule there is a huge amount of cheap wine to be had anyway, some wine produced in Australia (both cask and bottled wine) has fruit juice added in Australia and exported to Thailand, and this also is cheap for that reason.

As one poster suggested, there is no telling how long the cask/boxed wine acquired by the OP had been on the shelf of the store and it could well have been past its use by date, usually within one to two years of being boxed (actually there is a date stamp on the box if you look carefully). Heat of course will also be another factor in a small store as this will affect any wine with regards to ageing it prematurely/turning it "off".

Most of the bottled wines containing fruit juice are in the 269 to 299 baht range if they are produced in Thailand (imported grape juice is fermented and fruit juice is added/mixed to produce the final product), whereas some imported from Australia can be up to 499 baht a bottle, so paying more does not actually always mean you get wine which is free of fruit juice. Some of these bottles clearly state on the back label that they have been blended with fruit juice and that is a step in the right direction for the consumer, IMO.

Storing cask/boxed wine in the fridge is a good way to go and you can pour yourself a glass whenever you feel like it and within a few minutes the temperature will have risen to an acceptable level. Too much heat brings out what are called "volatile aromas" in a wine which can spoil it for some folks, others take it as it is.

Cast/boxed wine will start to go off after 6 to 8 weeks, mainly because the wine in these has not been "designed" to age, and because every time the tap is opened, a little air gets into the cask therefore affecting the wine and causing it to age. It has been said that even though the plastic/aluminium coated container shows no signs of leakage, some air actually does penetrate.

There was a wine from Chile which was unadulterated with fruit juice and this was a good everyday drinker to keep in the fridge, however I have been unable to find it for a while, because it was a good standby for the times when I just wanted one glass.

Now I search the supermarkets for "bargains" and reduced prices and have been very lucky in this regard, especially as the GM of a major supermarket chain has said that when they want to clear the shelves of a few brands of wine, they just surreptitiously lower the price without bringing any attention to it, because they are not allowed to advertise it, and I have been able to buy reasonable wines like Taylors Promised Land for around 399 baht a bottle.

In addition I have a contact in wine distribution here and I often get offers to buy surplus stock, which I jump at, purchasing some really good wines at about 400 baht a bottle when they are available.

Finally, as regards the "screwtop" debate, certainly many countries have adopted this technique, which was first produced and trialled in Australia, because of the problem with cork taint and spoiled wine, and much of the wine in Australia and New Zealand is now bottled with these, the best being called "Stelvin".

It has been said that Chateaux Margaux are currently investigating screw tops for their wine, and that would certainly be a major milestone.

Well written, but I would take some issue with your comment about oxygen going into boxed wine. That is the beauty of having the bladder in the box. As the wine is removed, glass by glass, the bladder collapses onto itself, not allowing air into it. There is no vacuum action causing anything to be sucked into the bag. The tube inside the box leading to the nozzle is full of wine, making the option of air going in to be extremely difficult. Tear the box open after you have finished the wine. You will find the bag completely collapsed, without air.

Thank you for your compliment, much appreciated, especially from another wine enthusiast.

It has been established that some air does in fact find its way into the bladder, and that is the reason why the wine will stay drinkable for 12 months or more if unopened, yet on the box it says that the wine should be consumed within six weeks of opening, and that is because some air does find its way in, which leads to eventual deterioration of the wine.

In addition, as I mentioned, it has been suggested that some air does permeate the bladder/membrane over time and of course this does not help with the keeping qualities of the wine.

Having said that, I have nothing against "a good everyday swigging red wine" being put in a cask for casual consumption, provided that it does not have fruit juice added to it. However that is just me, and many folk enjoy the occasional glass of cask wine, even with the fruit juice, and as we all have different tastes, then that's fine.

I watch people in the beer bars enjoying red wine out of the box. I have tried to enjoy them, but cannot find any that, are to me, drinkable. But as I have said before, if anyone likes a wine, whether is it $1 a glass, in cardboard, or $5,000 a bottle, they should drink what they find satisfies them. If we all had the same palette, there would be just 2 wines, a red & a white, and they would probably say Gallo on the bottle. My go to red right now for special occasion is the Shiraz from Silver Lake Winery. For me, just excellent. Great body, acids are balanced, carries through with a great finish of chocolate mocha, with a very nice charcoal cherry in between.

[Mudcrab]

Covering off a few points on this thread, most of which have been dealt with on the "Mont Clair" thread as noted by "topt".........

Just about all of the cask/boxed wine here has had fruit juice added which gets around the high level of tax applicable in this country (for some unexplained reason) and that's why it is so cheap. If it doesn't actually state that fruit juice has been added, then look for the giveaway, "Fruit Wine" mention in small print (this particularly on wines produced by Siam Winery.........Montclair, Peter Vella, Mar-Y-Sol and so on).

In addition, although Australia does not need to add fruit juice to its wine because as a rule there is a huge amount of cheap wine to be had anyway, some wine produced in Australia (both cask and bottled wine) has fruit juice added in Australia and exported to Thailand, and this also is cheap for that reason.

As one poster suggested, there is no telling how long the cask/boxed wine acquired by the OP had been on the shelf of the store and it could well have been past its use by date, usually within one to two years of being boxed (actually there is a date stamp on the box if you look carefully). Heat of course will also be another factor in a small store as this will affect any wine with regards to ageing it prematurely/turning it "off".

Most of the bottled wines containing fruit juice are in the 269 to 299 baht range if they are produced in Thailand (imported grape juice is fermented and fruit juice is added/mixed to produce the final product), whereas some imported from Australia can be up to 499 baht a bottle, so paying more does not actually always mean you get wine which is free of fruit juice. Some of these bottles clearly state on the back label that they have been blended with fruit juice and that is a step in the right direction for the consumer, IMO.

Storing cask/boxed wine in the fridge is a good way to go and you can pour yourself a glass whenever you feel like it and within a few minutes the temperature will have risen to an acceptable level. Too much heat brings out what are called "volatile aromas" in a wine which can spoil it for some folks, others take it as it is.

Cast/boxed wine will start to go off after 6 to 8 weeks, mainly because the wine in these has not been "designed" to age, and because every time the tap is opened, a little air gets into the cask therefore affecting the wine and causing it to age. It has been said that even though the plastic/aluminium coated container shows no signs of leakage, some air actually does penetrate.

There was a wine from Chile which was unadulterated with fruit juice and this was a good everyday drinker to keep in the fridge, however I have been unable to find it for a while, because it was a good standby for the times when I just wanted one glass.

Now I search the supermarkets for "bargains" and reduced prices and have been very lucky in this regard, especially as the GM of a major supermarket chain has said that when they want to clear the shelves of a few brands of wine, they just surreptitiously lower the price without bringing any attention to it, because they are not allowed to advertise it, and I have been able to buy reasonable wines like Taylors Promised Land for around 399 baht a bottle.

In addition I have a contact in wine distribution here and I often get offers to buy surplus stock, which I jump at, purchasing some really good wines at about 400 baht a bottle when they are available.

Finally, as regards the "screwtop" debate, certainly many countries have adopted this technique, which was first produced and trialled in Australia, because of the problem with cork taint and spoiled wine, and much of the wine in Australia and New Zealand is now bottled with these, the best being called "Stelvin".

It has been said that Chateaux Margaux are currently investigating screw tops for their wine, and that would certainly be a major milestone.

Well written, but I would take some issue with your comment about oxygen going into boxed wine. That is the beauty of having the bladder in the box. As the wine is removed, glass by glass, the bladder collapses onto itself, not allowing air into it. There is no vacuum action causing anything to be sucked into the bag. The tube inside the box leading to the nozzle is full of wine, making the option of air going in to be extremely difficult. Tear the box open after you have finished the wine. You will find the bag completely collapsed, without air.

And when one's palate is sufficed, said bladder can be blown up and used as a pillow...especially useful if the local wine appreciation society meeting happens to be on the beach.

Chateau cardboard....another Aussie gift to the world!

Well the sad truth of the matter is that if you have lived anywhere in Europe over the past 30 to 50 years, then you could have been drinking wine from a bottle which was very inferior to that which could be purchased in a cask from Australia.

There was some truly awful rubbish being bottled in France, Italy and Spain to name the main offenders, and shipped overseas to what was seen as an ever grateful market for that product. The problem being that Australia came on the market with its fruit driven wines and also later on, the casks, and changed the grand order of things.

But the damage was done, and wine buyers started to look elsewhere for their everyday wine and opened up markets from Australia, New Zealand, Chile, Argentina and the USA. The only good thing was that those aforementioned European countries started to get their act together and passed laws with regard to the wines, and also encouraged the pulling up of "inferior vines" to be replaced by better varieties.

So the good old cask wine, when not adulterated by fruit juice, would be more than a match for the everyday plonk from the old days, by a long shot.............and I'm not an Aussie!!

I am....and speaking from experience....

[how241]

I have yet to find a "boxed" wine here in Thailand that isn't mixed with "fruit" to get around the tax requirements

I would even be willing to pay extra for real wine in a box, just for the convenience but alas have never found any

Mont Clair can be found boxed, I don't think there is fruit inside.

+1...Decent low priced wine. Big-C has it.