No More 3mil Investment Visas In Thailand

[sossn]

pardon my ignorance but i get a very clear message from all these changes that the thai authorities dont want farang staying in thailand on permanent basis. And why when there is a caretaker Govtment are all these changes taking place i feel there is something that is not quiet right.

Furthermore if a person is in his 60s what type of visa and what requirements are there to live permantly in thailand

Many thanks

[Meerkat]

Hi,

We have just called Immigration and they told us that renewal still will be possible?

From Jomtien Immigration Office (Pattaya) about 2 hour ago :

"The 3 million baht investment visa will no longer be available in October...

... but a 10 million baht investment visa will substitute it."

"The renewal will be possible by investing 7 million baht more..."

"Most visa financial requirement will be "updated" before the end of 2006"

"The 2 border runs limitation will not concern people arriving in thailand by plane"

There was an "unofficial meeting" this afternoon at the Immigration Office

with several people of the "Pattaya Expat Club".

I suppose they will make soon a complete report on their web site.

Wait & see...

Pataya46

Thanks for the info. Still, 10 mio is a drop in the ocean compared to, for instance, HK's USD 1 mio for a similar one. Not sure how other countries in the region compare.

I did forward details of the Philippines special visa that was mentioned on the other, big, thread to a mate who's married to a filipina but lives in HK. He chortled that it was a waste of money (USD 75k).

[Jim Abbott]

Yes, Tesco and the other big box retailers are in trouble. I guess that's why Walmart never came here

[Tywais]

It seems to me that if they don't grandfather the existing 3M investment people it is a breach of contract. As such possibly open to a class action suit if these investors get together and obtain a good lawyer. Possible? Rebuttals? Most will say that farangs and Thai law don't work well together, just a thought though.

[kiakaha]

pardon my ignorance but i get a very clear message from all these changes that the thai authorities dont want farang staying in thailand on permanent basis.

Do you know the difference between the word "farang" and the word" foreigner". "Farang" are a subset of "Foreigners" and all "Foreigners" are subject to immigration control.

I dont think that the multitude of foreigners with non imm o + extensions, non imm b + work permit and extensions, permanent residency, diplomats etc..... etc..... are really going to worry to much.

[The Coder]

It seems to me that if they don't grandfather the existing 3M investment people it is a breach of contract. As such possibly open to a class action suit if these investors get together and obtain a good lawyer. Possible? Rebuttals? Most will say that farangs and Thai law don't work well together, just a thought though.

It is a thought, but I would be very careful about biting the hand that feeds you so to speak; there is the risk you find yourself persona non gratta (sp?), blacklisted. But interestingly, this is the reason the thai elite card company cites as to why it won't ever go away; because the members would sue.

Edited September 12, 2006 by The Coder

[bendix]

There is one little bit of good out of this new development.

It will screw some of the hateful zealots that posted in the border run crack down thread. All those who showed no understanding and called those who could not get visa lowlifes because they didn’t have 3 million baht to invest are getting a well deserved kick in the teeth.

How does it feel?

If anyone wants to repost the comments of those posters who had investment visa and who were telling others to get out of Thailand that would make my day.

As a hateful zealot, I'm feeling fine, thank you. My work permit is being renewed on Thursday.

Edited September 12, 2006 by bendix

[Soundguy]

I predict a huge increase in WP's. Can a person get a WP.....say to teach.....but then not really pursue work; just use it as a way to stay in country legally?

Not a bad idea in theory, but that means you can't work at anything else, or live far away from your sponsor. And the sponsor company still has to pay you the minimum monthly wage for farangs, varies country to country.

[Fire]

OK. Looks like marriage visas are going to soar even further!

I wonder how long it will take before they change the laws for marriage visa, retirement and work permit.

[Indifferent]

This is only further evidence of a hardening approach to anti-foreign (racist????) political sentiment. Why? because we do not have a political voice (and therefore not important), and it apeases the right wing voters.

They are obviously examining all the areas that affect foreigners and are systematically restricting, if not removing the ability to be here.

I'm just waiting for the next few annoucements when they will probably target B visa's, O visa's, work permits and all the other methods that allow more than a few weeks stay.

My money is staying offshore so that when my B visa makes me illegal, I can buy 2 or 3 condo in Brazil or somewher that is more deserving of my damned smelly farang money.

Its going to get a lot worse before it gets better, and I for one probably now won't bother seeing the end of my visa out since there is obviously little point in investigating the opportunities in Thailand because in 1 months time there will be NONE.

[bendix]

My guess is that other visa classes will be tightened to reflect the general trend. But perhaps not so wholeheartedly as these two moves.

They want to ensure farangs here are contributing something to Thailand, not just exploiting its rules.

So expect financial requirements for O and retirement visas to go up. Expect minimal salaries for work permit renewals to increase. Expect tighter controls on issuing B visas .. . . .

It's been coming a while. It's a fair cop.

[bendix]

I predict a huge increase in WP's. Can a person get a WP.....say to teach.....but then not really pursue work; just use it as a way to stay in country legally?

Not a bad idea in theory, but that means you can't work at anything else, or live far away from your sponsor. And the sponsor company still has to pay you the minimum monthly wage for farangs, varies country to country.

Not possible. An individual does not apply for a work permit. Work permits are issued to companies and held by the employee. When the employee leaves that employment, they give up the work permit.

[LoveDaBlues]

I predict a huge increase in WP's. Can a person get a WP.....say to teach.....but then not really pursue work; just use it as a way to stay in country legally?

Not a bad idea in theory, but that means you can't work at anything else, or live far away from your sponsor. And the sponsor company still has to pay you the minimum monthly wage for farangs, varies country to country.

Not possible. An individual does not apply for a work permit. Work permits are issued to companies and held by the employee. When the employee leaves that employment, they give up the work permit.

Still leaves the door open for 'employees' who actually don't work......sounds like an opportunity for some companies to make a little dosh......

[kiakaha]

This is only further evidence of a hardening approach to anti-foreign (racist????) political sentiment. Why? because we do not have a political voice (and therefore not important), and it apeases the right wing voters.

They are obviously examining all the areas that affect foreigners and are systematically restricting, if not removing the ability to be here.

I'm just waiting for the next few annoucements when they will probably target B visa's, O visa's, work permits and all the other methods that allow more than a few weeks stay.

My money is staying offshore so that when my B visa makes me illegal, I can buy 2 or 3 condo in Brazil or somewher that is more deserving of my damned smelly farang money.

Its going to get a lot worse before it gets better, and I for one probably now won't bother seeing the end of my visa out since there is obviously little point in investigating the opportunities in Thailand because in 1 months time there will be NONE.

So conversely would you call the New zealand government racist given that a non-NZLer can only stay a max of 9 months in an 18 month period on tourist permits and the criteria for Permanent stay is very strict. In fact NZL's immigration criteria for a Thai is much harsher than Thailand's immigration criteria for a NZLer. I'm sure you could apply the same logic to most other western nations.

[my friend you]

I got a 1 year multi entry visa (non immigrant 0) recently and several times before by just showing bankletter from my Thai bank stating i have 800 000 Baht deposit. far less costly than 3 mil and haven't heard (yet!) they are going to cancel this option. or have i missed out on something?

Hi "my friend you",

You just forgot that not everybody here is over 50yo like you...

New regulations are mainly a problem for "young" guys

Pattaya46

no, Pattaya46, i'm not here on retirement visa. read again, simple non immigrant 0 !

however that is no guarantee for future developments...

[Happy Jack]

So many people complaining about this - but recently returned to New Zealand with my Thai wife and the drama has been about a million times that I had (virtually zero) in my two years in LOS, even just to get her an initial 9 month visitor's visa. Thailand might be tightening up their policies, and sometimes these may even seem illogical, but the buerocracy involved for Thai people to get into other countries is still a million times worse - and the policies of other nations are probably a big influence on the direction the Thai government takes in establishing its own. With a general trend to bring Thialand up to date with other countries we can only expect to see things get more involved. Hopefully out of all this there will eventually emerge a sensible and logical system. How long this may take is anyone's guess though.

[eddy-ham]

I see this as just a bringing into line the Thai immigration system with the rest of the shall we saylevel world.

Most countries operate and ENFORCE a system where the employer ask the government for a work permit.

Most countries operate a system where if you live there then you pay taxes into THEIR system ect .

Thailand did offer a nice easy bolt hole for many people but I think that to much was being taken out by the expats ect not alot being put in and the Thais themselves see that in their own country there is developing to big a gulf between non Thai and Thais.

[changchang]

however that is no guarantee for future developments...

Becoming a monk or nun might begin to look like a good option

Really, it's all quite bewildering, especially for a quite recent arrival.

It must be very unsettling (to put it mildly) for older folk who had expected to live out their lives here. Hope communities can get together and support eachother.

Edited September 12, 2006 by changchang

[KronbergTH]

Hi,

We have just called Immigration and they told us that renewal still will be possible?

From Jomtien Immigration Office (Pattaya) about 2 hour ago :

"The 3 million baht investment visa will no longer be available in October...

... but a 10 million baht investment visa will substitute it."

"The renewal will be possible by investing 7 million baht more..."

"Most visa financial requirement will be "updated" before the end of 2006"

"The 2 border runs limitation will not concern people arriving in thailand by plane"

There was an "unofficial meeting" this afternoon at the Immigration Office

with several people of the "Pattaya Expat Club".

I suppose they will make soon a complete report on their web site.

Wait & see...

Pataya46

Okay, it seems like there are some confusion at the immigration offices as well...

However, new regulations are often concerning new visas and their renewals and not concerning renewals of old visas? And the officer in Bangkok told us exactly that if the old visa expires without renewal it will be subject to the new regulations.

Anyway, lets se what will happen…

[logbags]

As a person who has spent much of his adult life in Thailand I have the following advice.

Thailand is a place to spend and enjoy money not make money.

Invest at home, spend in Thailand.

The Thai economy will crash sooner rather than later. The fallout and hunt for scapegaots will be fierce.

Unless a crim with ill gotten gains or a rich bastard with shitloads of money don't invest in Thailand.

If farangs stopped coming to Thailand for 3 months the economy would nose dive. They take us for granted and treat us like shit as they know we just keep coming back like pussy whipped teenagers.

Many of the tourists in Thailand are there for the cheap women pure and simple. They know it, we know it and we both exploit each other.

Stay at home for a while and keep your dosh out of Thailand, they will be begging us to come and invest eventually.

[chuchok]

So many people complaining about this - but recently returned to New Zealand with my Thai wife and the drama has been about a million times that I had (virtually zero) in my two years in LOS, even just to get her an initial 9 month visitor's visa. Thailand might be tightening up their policies, and sometimes these may even seem illogical, but the buerocracy involved for Thai people to get into other countries is still a million times worse - and the policies of other nations are probably a big influence on the direction the Thai government takes in establishing its own. With a general trend to bring Thialand up to date with other countries we can only expect to see things get more involved. Hopefully out of all this there will eventually emerge a sensible and logical system. How long this may take is anyone's guess though.

There is a reason for this.Thai people are about a million times more likely to overstay.

Edited September 12, 2006 by chuchok

[logpoacher]

With reference to the various comparisons with other countries:

If a Thai successfully becomes a citizen of the UK, say through marriage, they are entitled to live and work anywhere in the EU and they are entitled to all the welfare benefits - this is not remotely similar to Thailand, which is presumably why it's harder to get in.

I have no problem with rule changes, but in the UK they are not made retrospectively effective. What am I supposed to do with an unsaleable condo purchased with my life savings in a country that I now cannot live in? I obeyed all the rules as laid down and am now effectively being told that I failed to obey rules that didn't exist when I bought my condo 3 years ago.

These aren't just minor bureaucratic changes - these are people's lives being wrecked.

How long before someone kills themselves in despair. I know I feel like the bottom has just dropped out of my world and I don't know what I'm going to do.

[Indifferent]

So conversely would you call the New zealand government racist given that a non-NZLer can only stay a max of 9 months in an 18 month period on tourist permits and the criteria for Permanent stay is very strict. In fact NZL's immigration criteria for a Thai is much harsher than Thailand's immigration criteria for a NZLer. I'm sure you could apply the same logic to most other western nations.

Who said anything about tourist permits? I'm talking about the ONLY methods for extended stays in Thailand beyong tourist requirement. I think you read the word then blinded yourself to the rest.

Anyway, I would argue that (probably in NZ-since I don't know, I'm from the UK) then there many requirements are an interim before nationalization at which point they can apply for more permanent visas and (ultimately) citizenship and all the rights that are afforded a NZ citizen (thats how most countries work).

As this is not the case in Thailand, (it seems you can never be a Thai citizen, own your own property, vote and have any rights that a Thai citizen has) and they are now targeting only foriegners (and, in a very short timescale). Perhaps a better word would be ethnocentrism but certainly in my country if it was happening to a racial minority (which I certinly am here) it would be called political racialism, prejudiced policies or social discrimination.

There is a very fine line between Nationalistic and Racist and I think Thailand is rapidy aprroaching it.

But hel_l. what do I care. I'm off to Brazil soon. Just sooner rather than later.

[bendix]

There is a reason for this.Thai people are about a million times more likely to overstay.

And what do you think this whole issue of banning border runs is about, then?

[chuchok]

There is a reason for this.Thai people are about a million times more likely to overstay.

And what do you think this whole issue of banning border runs is about, then?

Weetbix?

[dog412]

I see this as just a bringing into line the Thai immigration system with the rest of the shall we saylevel world.

Most countries operate and ENFORCE a system where the employer ask the government for a work permit.

Most countries operate a system where if you live there then you pay taxes into THEIR system ect .

Thailand did offer a nice easy bolt hole for many people but I think that to much was being taken out by the expats ect not alot being put in and the Thais themselves see that in their own country there is developing to big a gulf between non Thai and Thais.

you would pay taxes on income earned in that particular country, not on money spent from your savings from outside that country.

[Dazzler]

I have just bought a condo for Bt5 mill in BKK. I have a work permit, but if the worst came to the worst, I could always rent it out and live in another country.

Not ideal if I had a Thai wife here I agree, but financially I am not buggered.

Am I missing something here? I just leave Thailand and rent out my condo.

[Meerkat]

As this is not the case in Thailand, (it seems you can never be a Thai citizen, own your own property, vote and have any rights that a Thai citizen has) and they are now targeting only foriegners (and, in a very short timescale). Perhaps a better word would be ethnocentrism but certainly in my country if it was happening to a racial minority (which I certinly am here) it would be called political racialism, prejudiced policies or social discrimination.

You can gain Thai nationality, regardless of race, creed or existing nationality.

[macb]

Dont Panic Mr Mannering:

You know there was a story during the first World War about a message being passed from the front line to the command post. The original message was 'Send re-enforcements we are going to advance.

By the time it got to the Command post the verbal translation was 'Send three and fourpence we are going to a Dance.

I feel that is what is happening here getting all out of context before it is Black and white.

macb

[dog412]

There is a reason for this.Thai people are about a million times more likely to overstay.

And what do you think this whole issue of banning border runs is about, then?

it's about "not" keeping them legal.