Thailand Brit murder suspects 'still waiting' on evidence review

[jdinasia]

If the defense in this case wants to prove, for some reason. that the 'kid' above was at or near the scene of the crime prior to the crime, that is up to the defense; that the 'kid' should have to prove that he wasn't there, is only now to satisfy persons as in the above post.

You're right. Mentioning NS and trying to ascertain his whereabouts will probably not be allowed by the Samui court. The prosecution (in line with the wishes of the Headman and RTP),has crafted the trial parameters as much as possible - to preclude mention of NS. Very crafty. It doesn't have much to do with justice, but hey, this is Thailand, where justice takes a back seat to what's important; influential families, money, social status.

Most likely in any Court of law especially in the US such information would be excluded unless there was 100% certainty as to the person's whereabouts and identity and even then there would have to shown some relevance to the charges against those who are on trial.

Unless proof of prior conflict could be presented, no court would accept it.

What the prosecution has to prove is that the 2 Burmese defendants did the crime. The burden is what a reasonable person would believe.

[thailandchilli]

I know for a fact that some of the victim's friends have been pestered by the conspiracy theorists to support their side.

Fact? AleG, please do elaborate. We are all dying to know how you know this for a fact.

I already did, Thailandchill didn't like the exposure it brought to him so he asked the post to be removed. If you want more details you should ask him, since he is so gung-ho about transparency I'm sure he'll be very forthcoming.

I suggest you back up your facts, I'm waiting along with everyone else, try concentrating on the claims you made in your post, here let me repeat it for you:

"I know for a fact that some of the victim's friends have been pestered by the conspiracy theorists to support their side."

[AleG]

I already did, Thailandchill didn't like the exposure it brought to him so he asked the post to be removed. If you want more details you should ask him, since he is so gung-ho about transparency I'm sure he'll be very forthcoming.

I suggest you back up your facts, I'm waiting along with everyone else, try concentrating on the claims you made in your post, here let me repeat it for you:

"I know for a fact that some of the victim's friends have been pestered by the conspiracy theorists to support their side."

I gave you this example, you didn't like it so you moved the goalposts.

I gave an example of you trying to do the same thing, you didn't like it so you asked the moderators to have it removed.

[thailandchilli]

You gave an example of me trying to do the same thing?? Now your lying again AleG. Your dishonesty is shameless

[AleG]

You gave an example of me trying to do the same thing?? Now your lying again AleG. Your dishonesty is shameless

Yes I did give an example of you trying to contact the family and friends of the victims to help the defense efforts, why are you so coy about it? It's a good cause, isn't it?

[boomerangutang]

Ok AleG, I know you're not stupid. But I'll say state it again: It was nearly 5 hours between the time of the crime and the time of the NS alibi video of him leaving the apartment. We're not discussing right now whether that video was tampered with. If it takes roughly 3.5 hours for a desperate person with money to get from KT to Bkk, then that leaves 'wiggle room' of about 90 minutes. I can't say for sure whether he made that trip, any more than you can say for sure he didn't. I'm neither an investigator, nor would I be allowed to investigate my theory in depth. This is Thailand, I'm not a Thai. I don't even speak Thai well. If Thai authorities (RTP and/or transport people and/or drivers) want to avoid providing info, it's the easiest thing for them to do. It's as easy as the bar managers refusing to allow RTP to see CCTV from that night.

This case would be monstrously different if I had been in charge of investigating. Notice, I didn't say, ".....if I was an investigator" because being an investigator in this case means finding results pre-set by higher ranking officers. That's the way investigations happen in Thailand, like it or not: Top officials declare the results they want, and it's the job of his underlings to connect the dots to provide proof of that. But, if I were in charge of the investigation, I would have done the following things from Day 1:

>>> Consider everyone as a possible suspect. No person would be excluded for any reasons - not for VIP status, for being related to a VIP, for being rich, for looking like a nice person, having a nice smile, being related to a VIP or a policitian or royalty, or anything. Get the picture?

>>> Secured the crime scene and had professionals gather data with rubber gloves. I would have tried to get top experts to head various factions of the investigation. I would have asked the Brits to assist, similar to how the Portuguese asked the Brits to assist in an important recent crime in Portugal, or how the Dutch asked the Brits to assist in another crime scenario in Holland.

>>> Insisted on all CCTV that may have been relevent to the crime. I would not have allowed a bar owner to refuse to hand over CCTV for any reason.

>>> I would, as a farang might say, "leave no stone unturned" in finding who did the crime.

>>> Instruct my investigative team to follow leads - wherever they lead, and to get video interviews where possible. Audio is 2nd best.

>>> Would offer promises of safety to anyone who chose to speak out and who appeared to have pertinent info to solving the crime - even offering a 24 hr. armed guard for a key witness. I would also offer rewards for info which could be used to convict.

>>> Would have arranged for Sean to stay in Thailand with a 'silent witness' provision, secret location, with two armed guards. Perhaps Sean is also an accessory to the crime, but we'll never know as he was allowed to quickly flee Thailand - with no contact.

>>> I would have detained prime suspects without bail. That's the only provision in this list that's being done now, except with one minor problem: they probably jailed the wrong guys.

I think you spent entirely too much time fantasizing.

Loss of words, AleG? If stumped, there's no requirement to respond.

Most likely in any Court of law especially in the US such information would be excluded unless there was 100% certainty as to the person's whereabouts and identity and even then there would have to shown some relevance to the charges against those who are on trial.

If showing NS may have been involved with the crime, and/or he lied about his whereabouts BOLSTERS PROOF OF THE B2'S NON-INVOLVEMENT IN THE CRIME - then such info re; NS may be admissible. Additionally, NS could be called as a witness, if what he says under oath might provide futher proof of B2's non-involvement.

Not sure whether NS will be called as a witness, but it's likely Mon will. Mon probably knows a heck of a lot about this crime and he's very subjective about it on several levels - not least because he used to be a prime suspect, and indications of his nephew being involved - won't dissipate, as he hopes they would. Plus, it appears Mon refused to give CCTV from his bar to authorities. If that's true, it could bring up 'obstruction of justice' issues, if such a thing is illegal in Thailand.

[JLCrab]

You most likely cannot introduce evidence in any court that someone may have been involved in a crime unless you have at least some evidence that he was involved in a crime.

[thailandchilli]

You gave an example of me trying to do the same thing?? Now your lying again AleG. Your dishonesty is shameless

Yes I did give an example of you trying to contact the family and friends of the victims to help the defense efforts, why are you so coy about it? It's a good cause, isn't it?

So this post that you put a link to that I made some 8 months ago is me trying to contact family and friends to help the defense? Try reading it Aleg, now who is lying

"How sad, just found Dave Millers facebook page, his friends and family are still updating, his brother posted just a couple of days ago and its clear with all the links and posts for the change.org petition that the whole family backed it 100%

To all of those troll posters here who kept belittling the petition and how in your views it made no difference. I hope you now feel ashamed.

Edited to remove Davids facebook page link

Back to your claims, we all know that you were referring to the friends in the UK not Sean when you made your baseless claims, even the episode with Sean and CSILA does not back up your claims so again, where is the basis on which you claim the facts that "conspiracy theorists" have been pestering the friends of the victims?

Edited June 15, 2015 by thailandchilli

[AleG]

You gave an example of me trying to do the same thing?? Now your lying again AleG. Your dishonesty is shameless

Yes I did give an example of you trying to contact the family and friends of the victims to help the defense efforts, why are you so coy about it? It's a good cause, isn't it?

So this post that you put a link to that I made some 8 months ago is me trying to contact family and friends to help the defense? Try reading it Aleg, now who is lying

"How sad, just found Dave Millers facebook page, his friends and family are still updating, his brother posted just a couple of days ago and its clear with all the links and posts for the change.org petition that the whole family backed it 100%

To all of those troll posters here who kept belittling the petition and how in your views it made no difference. I hope you now feel ashamed.

https://www.facebook.com/dangerdaveuk"

Back to your claims, we all know that you were referring to the friends in the UK not Sean when you made your baseless claims, even the episode with Sean and CSILA does not back up your claims so again, where is the basis on which you claim the facts that "conspiracy theorists" have been pestering the friends of the victims?

Oh, but that wasn't the link I provided were you were trying to contact the friends and family of the victims.

I'm not going to link to the CSI-LA page, but try and look for this:

"Please contact an follow (name removed). According to her instagram's photo, she knows who (name removed) is. Please ask her to contact CSI LA or join our discussion group here."

"I followed her and asked her (politely) it seems the photo with Tom had been deleted so I commented on koh Tao sairee beach photo & within 5 mins she blocked me?"

I removed the name of the victim's friends.

Then come back and tell me again I was lying.

[thailandchilli]

I've never posted on CSILA, so yes another fragrant lie, I never made that post or anything like it. If you dont want to link to it do a screengrab your good at them and keep digging your own hole

[jdinasia]

I've never posted on CSILA, so yes another fragrant lie, I never made that post or anything like it. If you dont want to link to it do a screengrab your good at them and keep digging your own hole

You are conflating 2 points made, but as noted before it is all off topic

[thailandchilli]

I've never posted on CSILA, so yes another fragrant lie, I never made that post or anything like it. If you dont want to link to it do a screengrab your good at them and keep digging your own hole

You are conflating 2 points made, but as noted before it is all off topic

And...........the fact is we have Aleg lying

[AleG]

I've never posted on CSILA, so yes another fragrant lie, I never made that post or anything like it. If you dont want to link to it do a screengrab your good at them and keep digging your own hole

Did I say that you posted on CSILA? No I didn't, I think you are too eager to call me a liar to care about what's being said.

As Jdinasia explained to you, I made two points in that post regarding to the two points in your post; first one related to you trying to contact the friends and family of the victims to help the defense (being such an specific reference it's amazing you got confused), and second one about substantiating my original claims.

You called me a liar for saying the conspiracy theorists (AKA CSILA crowd) have been pestering the friends of the victims, I have already substantiated that claim, three times... you still call me a liar. I think that state of affairs speaks for itself.

[fritzzz25]

What we all have are in one poster whose avatar says "Try being informed instead of opinionated" are media reports of the RTP blabbing their efforts in the investigation. They themselves named suspects right from day one. They obviously had a reason to name said suspects, and efforts to assist in the location of these suspects.

Now, we know how money talks in this country, and my opinion, is that a lot of money talked. Once that money showed up, the suspicion was quickly diverted to some migrant workers, of a very low caste within their own country and with minimal education and finances. Who would be more perfect to fit up for a horrible crime like this.

The head of the Police stated "No Thai could do this" the writing was on the wall.

So, unless someone has access to the entire investigation and it is out for all to peruse, then all the comments here are opinions. In Police work, opinions are used as are theories - (I guess if one or more investigators agree on a theory it MUST be a conspiracy theory) to solve crimes. When these opinions are supported by tangible evidence, they then become facts.

In any event, nobody will ever agree on this investigation. With the history of bungled investigations and many examples of the rich paying their way out of crimes, this appears to me to be another one chalked up on the "pay off" column.

[thailandchilli]

I've never posted on CSILA, so yes another fragrant lie, I never made that post or anything like it. If you dont want to link to it do a screengrab your good at them and keep digging your own hole

Did I say that you posted on CSILA? No I didn't, I think you are too eager to call me a liar to care about what's being said.

As Jdinasia explained to you, I made two points in that post regarding to the two points in your post; first one related to you trying to contact the friends and family of the victims to help the defense (being such an specific reference it's amazing you got confused), and second one about substantiating my original claims.

You called me a liar for saying the conspiracy theorists (AKA CSILA crowd) have been pestering the friends of the victims, I have already substantiated that claim, three times... you still call me a liar. I think that state of affairs speaks for itself.

You stated quite clearly:

"Oh, but that wasn't the link I provided were you were trying to contact the friends and family of the victims."

And then followed on with a post unrelated to me. Now I suggest you back up your claims that I have been trying to contact the friends and family of the victims

If you cant do that which I know you can't then yes you are a liar................screengrabs...........links, I'm waiting

[jdinasia]

The initial suspects (day 1) were migrant laborers.

Then the Wares, Sean, footballers, Thai locals, and then back to migrant labor.

So the narrative that locals were identified from the beginning is false. They, in fact, were people of interest for a few days only.

[fritzzz25]

The initial suspects (day 1) were migrant laborers.

Then the Wares, Sean, footballers, Thai locals, and then back to migrant labor.

So the narrative that locals were identified from the beginning is false. They, in fact, were people of interest for a few days only.

Please back up this FACT with verifiable FACTS, not just media reports.

[jdinasia]

The initial suspects (day 1) were migrant laborers.

Then the Wares, Sean, footballers, Thai locals, and then back to migrant labor.

So the narrative that locals were identified from the beginning is false. They, in fact, were people of interest for a few days only.

Please back up this FACT with verifiable FACTS, not just media reports.

Pardon me?

What facts did you have to make your initial statement?

You mentioned media reports. The fact is that they (the RTP) announced whose they were looking at. They did so in roughly the order I presented. (not sure specifically on the order of the footballers and Ware)

Again look at your post for "facts" and not only are there no facts; but also your claims don't match the reports in the press that you mentioned.

"They themselves named...." was completely incorrect.

Edited June 15, 2015 by jdinasia

[AleG]

You stated quite clearly:

"Oh, but that wasn't the link I provided were you were trying to contact the friends and family of the victims."

And then followed on with a post unrelated to me. Now I suggest you back up your claims that I have been trying to contact the friends and family of the victims

If you cant do that which I know you can't then yes you are a liar................screengrabs...........links, I'm waiting

I did provide a link for that before, you promptly asked moderation to remove it, now you are asking for it again, so you can do the same all over again?

I'm not interested in playing your baiting games.

[fritzzz25]

The initial suspects (day 1) were migrant laborers.

Then the Wares, Sean, footballers, Thai locals, and then back to migrant labor.

So the narrative that locals were identified from the beginning is false. They, in fact, were people of interest for a few days only.

Please back up this FACT with verifiable FACTS, not just media reports.

Pardon me?

What facts did you have to make your initial statement?

You mentioned media reports. The fact is that they (the RTP) announced whose they were looking at. They did so in roughly the order I presented. (not sure specifically on the order of the footballers and Ware)

Again look at your post for "facts" and not only are there no facts; but also your claims don't match the reports in the press that you mentioned.

"They themselves named...." was completely incorrect.

Yes pardon you. As I said a few posts ago, there is nothing but opinions here. Yet you claim FACTS. When the rest of us post opinions that don't jive with your opinion, it becomes a conspiracy theory.

Furthermore, I believe the facts in the media as much as I believe your opinions.

[fritzzz25]

The fellas that are "in the know" with the RTP and the other fella who is a staunch defender of Nomsod, can you tell us inquiring minds if the DNA that was seized from the two Burmese was obtained with a warrant?

Or will it become the "fruit of the poisoned tree" at trial.

Interesting to see that this question was not answered by the guys who have the "facts". According to the Criminal Procedures Code, a warrant is needed for the search for evidence. The mass collection of DNA on the island is highly personal and intrusive. If this is where the DNA they obtained a "match" to the DNA at the scene, then my opinion is that it should be excluded from admissible evidence.

[JLCrab]

The fellas that are "in the know" with the RTP and the other fella who is a staunch defender of Nomsod, can you tell us inquiring minds if the DNA that was seized from the two Burmese was obtained with a warrant?

Or will it become the "fruit of the poisoned tree" at trial.

Interesting to see that this question was not answered by the guys who have the "facts". According to the Criminal Procedures Code, a warrant is needed for the search for evidence. The mass collection of DNA on the island is highly personal and intrusive. If this is where the DNA they obtained a "match" to the DNA at the scene, then my opinion is that it should be excluded from admissible evidence.

The warrant could have been received by the officers from the Court via telephone and a copy later shown to any one searched who then asks for it.(Article 59)

[jdinasia]

The initial suspects (day 1) were migrant laborers.

Then the Wares, Sean, footballers, Thai locals, and then back to migrant labor.

So the narrative that locals were identified from the beginning is false. They, in fact, were people of interest for a few days only.

Please back up this FACT with verifiable FACTS, not just media reports.

Pardon me?

What facts did you have to make your initial statement?

You mentioned media reports. The fact is that they (the RTP) announced whose they were looking at. They did so in roughly the order I presented. (not sure specifically on the order of the footballers and Ware)

Again look at your post for "facts" and not only are there no facts; but also your claims don't match the reports in the press that you mentioned.

"They themselves named...." was completely incorrect.

Yes pardon you. As I said a few posts ago, there is nothing but opinions here. Yet you claim FACTS. When the rest of us post opinions that don't jive with your opinion, it becomes a conspiracy theory.

Furthermore, I believe the facts in the media as much as I believe your opinions.

Your statement wasn't presented as opinion.

You said something was true "from day one". That statement of yours was false.

[jdinasia]

The fellas that are "in the know" with the RTP and the other fella who is a staunch defender of Nomsod, can you tell us inquiring minds if the DNA that was seized from the two Burmese was obtained with a warrant?

Or will it become the "fruit of the poisoned tree" at trial.

Interesting to see that this question was not answered by the guys who have the "facts". According to the Criminal Procedures Code, a warrant is needed for the search for evidence. The mass collection of DNA on the island is highly personal and intrusive. If this is where the DNA they obtained a "match" to the DNA at the scene, then my opinion is that it should be excluded from admissible evidence.

Again an opinion. Verifiably untrue.

Similar to your position regarding blunt force trauma and lacerations.

[fritzzz25]

Again an opinion. Verifiably untrue.

Similar to your position regarding blunt force trauma and lacerations.

Again, that is my OPINION, but apparently, if my opinion doesn't fit with your agenda, it doesn't count. I am still waiting for all of these facts that you have stated. But they are nowhere to be seen.....

And please then verify the proof that this is untrue. AGAIN I await your wealth of knowledge .

Edited June 15, 2015 by fritzzz25

[fritzzz25]

Your statement wasn't presented as opinion.

You said something was true "from day one". That statement of yours was false.

All of my statements on here are my opinion or as you put it "conspiracy theory".

[jdinasia]

Your statement wasn't presented as opinion.

You said something was true "from day one". That statement of yours was false.

All of my statements on here are my opinion or as you put it "conspiracy theory".

An opinion is an opinion.

A statement of fact without qualifications is a statement of fact. A statement qualified by a link and a claim of personal expertise is also claimed as fact.

Since the RTP didn't identify Thais "from day one" as you claim, it is patently wrong. Since lacerations can appear as cuts or tears as opposed to a crushing blow.... As the source of the link you previously posted clearly stated, you were alcohol patently wrong.

A conspiracy theory, as previously noted, is a theory that dark, unidentified (specifically) people are manipulating things from behind the scenes to affect a desired outcome. That is not the definition of an opinion.

I will quote your previous post that you presented as fact.

Edited June 15, 2015 by jdinasia

[jdinasia]

What we all have are in one poster whose avatar says "Try being informed instead of opinionated" are media reports of the RTP blabbing their efforts in the investigation. They themselves named suspects right from day one. They obviously had a reason to name said suspects, and efforts to assist in the location of these suspects.

Now, we know how money talks in this country, and my opinion, is that a lot of money talked. Once that money showed up, the suspicion was quickly diverted to some migrant workers, of a very low caste within their own country and with minimal education and finances. Who would be more perfect to fit up for a horrible crime like this.

The head of the Police stated "No Thai could do this" the writing was on the wall.

So, unless someone has access to the entire investigation and it is out for all to peruse, then all the comments here are opinions. In Police work, opinions are used as are theories - (I guess if one or more investigators agree on a theory it MUST be a conspiracy theory) to solve crimes. When these opinions are supported by tangible evidence, they then become facts.

In any event, nobody will ever agree on this investigation. With the history of bungled investigations and many examples of the rich paying their way out of crimes, this appears to me to be another one chalked up on the "pay off" column.

This post was not presented as opinion. There are several statements of fact."They themselves named suspect from day one "

Since they presented migrant laborers as the first suspects (day 1).....

[mojorison]

The initial suspects (day 1) were migrant laborers.

Then the Wares, Sean, footballers, Thai locals, and then back to migrant labor.

So the narrative that locals were identified from the beginning is false. They, in fact, were people of interest for a few days only.

That is plainly wrong. I was there. The narrative was that the locals were deeply involved from the minute the sun-rose on that glorious morning, the Burmese repertoire came along later. That was the narrative. The rest is history.

[fritzzz25]

Your statement wasn't presented as opinion.

You said something was true "from day one". That statement of yours was false.

All of my statements on here are my opinion or as you put it "conspiracy theory".

An opinion is an opinion.

A statement of fact without qualifications is a statement of fact. A statement qualified by a link and a claim of personal expertise is also claimed as fact.

Since the RTP didn't identify Thais "from day one" as you claim, it is patently wrong. Since lacerations can appear as cuts or tears as opposed to a crushing blow.... As the source of the link you previously posted clearly stated, you were alcohol patently wrong.

A conspiracy theory, as previously noted, is a theory that dark, unidentified (specifically) people are manipulating things from behind the scenes to affect a desired outcome. That is not the definition of an opinion.

I will quote your previous post that you presented as fact.

What is alcohol patently?

You hang onto the smallest things to keep bringing up. You think that this enhances your credibility here. Again, your miniscule opinion doesn't interest me.