Medical Residency (Postgraduate training) in Thailand

[anthxhughes]

Hello, I am new here so I apologize if my question has been addressed elsewhere on this forum.

I am currently a medical student (finishing up my second year) in Costa Rica, at the Universidad Latina de Costa Rica which was recently accredited by SINAES (this information may be useless, but I will put it up in case it helps provide an answer). I am starting to think of the future, and I am considering pursuing post graduate training in Thailand, but I can't really find any information specifically on foreign medical graduates trying to specialize in a Thai university.

I already understand that because my university is not on the approved list of universities, I would need to go to the Thai Medical Council TMC and present my diploma etc and wait for them to arrive at a decision whether my credentials are adequate to even be eligible for the exams. And I already know that I have to learn Thai, pass the exams, get a visa and all that other stuff.

So basically I would like to know: Once I graduate, I go to the TMC and assuming I am clear I take the exams and pass them. Do I get an Unrestricted license to practice medicine after the exam? Or do I have to complete an internship (not a residency or postgradute training) before I can practice?

Also, for example in Costa Rica, people who wish to transfer back to their home countries will skip out on the 1 year mandatory internship (required to practice in costa rica an be licensed and to do postgrad training) and complete the requisites in their own home countries. The universities here award the medical degree to the student and with that they can go back and finish training outside. For Thailand, do I need to be fully licensed here in costa rica before beginning the process with the TMC in thailand?

How does the Thai postgraduate training / residency system work? Do I get accepted based on some score from some test? Are residencies there similar to how they are in the USA (you basically get hired by the hospital and they train you after a selection process)? And of course, are foreigners allowed to specialize there? Do residents get paid a salary or is postgraduate training something I pay for out of pocket ? Detailed explanation on how this works would be appreciated!

[Rhys]

you should not attempt medical training here... you need to speak some Thai to get about.. since you are the first... in all honesty.. the TMC..would not know how to process you.. and it would lead to frustration on your side. Yes tropical medical program are great here....Malaria research in particular..but young man go west..

[anthxhughes]

Well, we all have our reasons as to why we would like to specialize or end up in one place or another. Now I don't want to get off topic but I have my reason and I would prefer to end up in Thailand one way or another if it is possible(go through a US residency then go to Thailand, or simply do it in Thailand if it is possible). Understanding medical science is hard enough and going through bureaucratic processes to achieve a worthy goal is not a problem... also I think it is a little obvious that I am going to have to start learning to speak Thai, needless to say I have started and I enjoy it... I know it's not a country with the greatest medical programs in the world, but there is more to it than "getting the best". Besides, my university in Costa Rica is not "the best" either, but our education is good, and our students make USA residencies with no problems .

So let's try to put aside all comments about how hard Thai language is if possible or how life there is different etc. please .

Maybe my question was badly written, but I meant to ask is do I need to be a fully licensed medical doctor from the country of the medical school / of origin BEFORE attempting to go to Thailand and be licensed there? That's what I am confused about. If I wanted a USA residency, I could go there simply with a bachelors degree of Medicine and Surgery, take USMLE and do all the ECFMG certifications and then apply for residency. I am wondering if Thailand is similar to the usa, or if I need to be a licensed medical doctor first before applying with the Thai medical council.

Another question might be is if it is preferable to do residency in USA then go to Thailand or do the residency in Thailand? I figured the USA education looks better no matter what, but the Thai residency would get me familiar with Thailand's medical system and more opportunities to establish connections there and perhaps easily find a job there.

Thanks again to anyone who can shed some light on this

[NickJ]

It is very next to near impossible. You mention that you are aware that the exams are in Thai. To date nobody has ever passed them. The very very few MD's here have been here for decades. since they changed the laws. The ones that are in management posistions cannot treat.

Have you ever even seen printed Thai?

Go West and stay west and retire here.

[anthxhughes]

No one has ever passed a Thai medical exam? Now that seems like an odd thing to say, maybe you mean a foreigner has never passed them. Why wouldn't a foreign doctor be able to pass them if he in fact knew the language? And actually on the TMC website the first 2 parts of the exam are conducted in the English language but regardless. It is not impossible to learn another language. Thai certainly is not the hardest language (it is hard I admit), I know it wouldnt be easy.

I think I am being misunderstood. I am not asking "what are my chances" I am asking "what would need to be done in order to be able to work in Thailand as a medical doctor".

And yes I have seen written and printed Thai, I am familiar with Thai script and pronunciation, I am however still learning grammar which is hard I admit, but on my free time while I study and I am complementing all medical terminology I learn with Thai medical terminology.

That being the case, language is not impossible to learn.

I want to go to Thailand because my wife (who is Thai and studied in a university in Thailand and currently lives and works here with me) and I would like to have a life together in Thailand one day, we just want to prepare and make sure we know what would have to be done. Or at least what can we do to increase our chances to having a life there where we can both work in our careers in the same country.

[TerryLH]

"I am wondering if Thailand is similar to the usa, or if I need to be a licensed medical doctor first before applying with the Thai medical council."

Why don't you just ask them directly?

[NickJ]

I went to UCSF. Been here for 24 years.Good luck. .....

[professor21]

a Thai doctor told me to do acupuncture for asthma

[Rhys]

Go along the Thai Burma Border and do first aid training, provide psychology services to the refugees, then audit your supplies... be sure to train your helpers at your bamboo clinic.. Do something with your time... Go save the world..

[professor21]

I have heard the epidemiology in this region isn't developed. I was terribly damaged by the low level of care in SE Asia and toxic antibiotics. I still cannot exhale and sleep because of pulmonary disease and have lost my hearing.

[martin.agren]

No one has ever passed a Thai medical exam?

I think I am being misunderstood. I am not asking "what are my chances" I am asking "what would need to be done in order to be able to work in Thailand as a medical doctor".

And yes I have seen written and printed Thai, I am familiar with Thai script and pronunciation, I am however still learning grammar which is hard I admit, but on my free time while I study and I am complementing all medical terminology I learn with Thai medical terminology.

I don't know about medical exam, but I know that there is one (and only one) farang with foreign exam who has passed the dental exam. It shows that it is possible, but damn hard.

[rusty2015]

hi, i ve got some interesting updates on this. TMC changed their medical board exams into English, much to the chagrin of the current med students- i am not sure if this is due to the ASEAN agreement or whatever but their exams follow the lines of the USMLE step exams (maybe a bit more on the memorizing side - i am sure you know what I mean). The equivalent of CS will be done in Thai. After that you re free to apply for a residency program there in theory. Did hear Chula do run a residency program for foreigners but i am not sure if you get a state license out of it ??? and its a bit pricey from what i ve seen. Have you found any further information on this? Something I am interested in doing as well. Although others might say otherwise, there are an enormous amount of paid IMG doctors in Thailand, doing all sorts. Go for it

[professor21]

by the way what are the salaries for doctors like and how many years of study before you can support yourself financially in the medical field?

[anthxhughes]

In repy to rusty2015

Since posting this question, I realized that I needed to ask the TMC directly for information regarding licensing. I emailed them directly and they took the time to answer my questions various times. What I learned.

Step 1 and 2 of the Thai exams are in English as of 2015, The step 3 requires very good understanding of Thai language

If your university is not on the recognized list of medical universities, you have to submit some papers and the TMC will contact the university asking for information to whether it fulfills the criteria they seek. After that, the Medical exams will be open to you.

I also discovered that as of this moment, non-Thai citizens are not allowed to do residency in Thailand, but that they were in the process of changing that law (he seemed to think that most likely they would due to the ASEAN agreement). You cannot do your internship (different from residency) years in Thailand. But if you are a specialist from your home country, they would have to evaluate both the degree of medicine from the university and the degree of specialization training, and in that why you can be a part of the Board of what ever specialization training you received.

Another thing Contrary to what people think, I asked the TMC if IMG's could work in public hospitals and they told me yes. I asked if there was any law or regulation that hospitals had to "prefer Thai's" over IMG's. It may seem silly to ask this but I know there is a list of jobs foreigners cannot have by law, so I thought it would apply to physicians or I thought there would be some limitation on their ability to practice. They told me that with a Thai medical license you have the same opportunity as anyone else in the country.

I recently emailed a US born and trained Physican in Thailand, he has yet to reply me, but if he gives any useful information I will post here.

Edited September 30, 2015 by anthxhughes

[anthxhughes]

In reply to professor21

According to my Thai friend, who is living and working in Thailand, the salary for a new General Physician is about 51,000 Baht per month. My friend isn't a doctor she just looked it up on google, so I am not sure if this is in private or public hospitals, or if there is a difference in salary between a Dr who works in a clinic or hospital etc.

[pauleddy]

The degree here is not MBBS. Kids who pass the final exams are titled MDs. I'm not sure whether they need to do an internship 1 year for that. Like an HP post.

A friend who trained in Russia and qualified last year became an MD on the day he finished college. In Malaysia (where he works) He is Dr XXX XXX M.D. I guess he is about 25-26.

The time taken to become Staff (Thai Consultant) after internship and residency seems to be quite long. In the UK, I knew people who were Registrar or SR (like senior resident) at 26-27. It may depend on the speciality. The interventional cardio residency here takes about 8 years AFTER internship of 2-3 years, AFAIK.

But I guess it's not that different from the UK, where it goes from New Graduate to Consultant in about 12 years, if you line up your little ducks correctly and don't get into a backwater.

The OP: you know already most of what you need to know, I think. In general, Thais seem to resist IMGs because the competition for staff jobs is fierce. Also, to work in the plum jobs in private hospitals (earning a million bucks in Plastics, for instance)--you need to be in the network. It's quite nepotistic. In my local large hospital the only IMG is an Indian gen phys who qualified (approx!) in about 1970 and seems to hang around treating colds and flu forever.

Of course, Thais who do a year postgrad in Paris, London or even Flagstaff Arizona generate a lot of kudos for themselves and may get some kind of Dip...but I have seen CVs where people put 3-day cadaver workshops as equiv. to a Diploma.

There are very few foreign docs here but it may change. However a lot of bullshit is spoken about Asean. The Thai doctors, lawyers and bus drivers will try to stop folks coming in if they can, by fair means or otherwise (such as panel interviews of 10 candidates or by tailoring the job offer to pay less...this is my opinion but I have it from good sources).

It may be useful that the OP has a Thai wife. If you want to work here, you can only try...but it may not be an idyllic place to work. Eddy.

[oncearugge]

OP

Here

http://www.tmc.or.th/en_how-foreign.php

The TMC are the only people that can assist with your questions

[rusty2015]

A Thai friend of mine took the board exam this year and he mentioned there were a few foreigners taking it which is promising. Also, I am not sure if you re doing residency already but Siriraj hospital have an international residency program up and running with a number of different specialities.

[steven23]

Procedure for residency, specialisation or in your case so called postgraduate training ( Thai system have undergraduate and graduate studies, by graduate studies it is mean MSC,MA,MBA, PhD, MPhil...) as someone mention you have international program of residency and master degree in surgery at mahidol, I know one Ecuadorian who attend, but his government is paying that, anyway that program is horribly expensive ( for me, but for UK or USA citizen cheap) I dont know what is standard of living in Costa Rica or can you afford but in case you cant, you should try other universities, most of them are open to foreign students,, however I think application procedure will be longer than for international programs, I think some kind of nostrification by Higher commision needs to be done, I am not sure, you should ask every department separately( be aware that what one department tell you, doesnt mean other will tell you a same) unfortunately, ( or not ) discretion law and discretion making policies are pretty common everywhere in thailand ( sorry for my bad english, In the legal system, discretion is often defined as the ability to choose where, how and with what severity to act. A person chooses to utilize his or her options and decides which to use, whether this is arresting a person on the street (criminal) or evicting someone from an apartment (civil) or anywhere in between.[1] There are some arguments that implementing discretion overrules or weakens the rule of law. However, laws cannot be written without using discretion and therefore the rule of law serves to guide discretion towards societal expectations, norms and, at least in part, public interest)

it is possible to get medical residency, most of time this is even welcomed bt you need to try hard

[atyclb]

i know this is an old thread but  i just noticed it. unless you are independantly wealthy and have some special love for thailand, do residency in a country that pays residents a better than abysmal salary during training. one thai friend did neurosurgery residency and salary was not nearly enough to live on. the same with an orthopedic surgeon i know. they are from wealthy families and more often than not many other doctors in thailand are too.

 

i know for a fact there have been philippine practicing doctors in thailand for years already they learned the language and passed the old exams perhaps not on the first try due to language. i knew a thai woman that was owner of a clinic with fiiipino doctors.

 

in the alternative an advantage u might have in working as a non thai doctor assuming you get the license is your perceived image-status as a foreign doctor but this applies given their mind set if you are caucasian from a country perceive as high status. europe, usa, canada.  clinics or hospiats might like you as a marketing tool.

 

if you get pg training in usa, canada or similar it is a better option, especially say in the ec where you might do residency in spain since you should have adequate language ability graduating from costa rica.

[LolaS]

I think @atyclb in Spain residency is so expensive also he needs to pass medical board exam...

I know that many Latinos apply for spain due to reason you suggested...but failing rate is HIGH

 

[Scott]

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