Where Do They Go When they get Older ?

Gonzo the Face · June 2, 2015

I was earlier reading an article on Bruce Jenner, now being Caitlyn, and a thought came into my mind.

Most of us , who have lived in Chiang Mai, or Thailand for some years are aware of the transgenders. More commonly and locally known as Katoeys. Many are able to be seen in and on the streets of our city. Mostly they are guys wishing to be girls and so do the clothes, paint and make up to the nines as we can see any evening. Most are made up to be attractive to the male gender out and about. Most of these individuals appear to be in the 20 to maybe early 30 year old bracket or maybe slightly older.

Heres the question..... where do they go, or what do they do when they get older say 40's , 50's or older? I know that these days I am not a night , bar, out and about person, but I don't recall ever have seen the older version..... Anybody care to comment about what / where they go??

narkeddiver · June 2, 2015

My wife used to have a couple of older Katoeys working for her - generally during the day they dressed as guys - they both had partners so they weren't out and about in the evenings

terminatorchiangmai · June 2, 2015

Some still work at Loi Kroh , while others might be married to some TV members.

Ulysses G. · June 2, 2015

If they are older, out of the bars and masquerading as women, who would even notice them?

manarak · June 2, 2015

AFAIK, many revert to masculine appearance, others disappear from the Thailand visible to farangs and retire in their villages, mostly invisible to anyone.

WinnieTheKhwai · June 2, 2015

Most turn into old ladies.

Some even have enough sense of style and taste to do that fairly gracefully.

Some though suffer from the same thing that women (and some men) suffer from who have had plastic surgery done: they don't know when to call it quits, but keep pursuing youth & "beauty" with additional operations. That's a bad idea, typically, and can lead to somewhat freakish results.

worgeordie · June 2, 2015

They just fade away

regards worgeordie

Gonzo the Face · June 2, 2015

??? .....can lead to somewhat freakish results ?????

What could be more freakish to them after a lifetime of operations of lopping & chopping & padding & adding that they have been thru??? There is a bit of humor in your sentence.

Beetlejuice · June 2, 2015

Although I have no sources of information or proof, I do have my own theories regarding what happens to the Katoeys.in later life.

The one`s we most commonly see in the red light districts and soliciting for customers are mostly male prostitutes and are not and will never be post op transgender males. Once they become passed their prime, they then revert back to being males again and settling into normal lives.

The real aging post op transgender males are mostly from the middle to upper classes of Thai society and have professional occupations. There are many in the hospitality, cosmetic, fashion and film industries.

Om Napa is one such famous post op transgender male, seem frequently on Thai TV.

lemonjelly · June 2, 2015

They just become camp old men

onthedarkside · June 2, 2015

Off topic post removed. I can see this topic having a short life before being closed..

smiles793 · June 2, 2015

Coincidentally there was a BBC news article on TV about Jenner/Caitlin as I was browsing this thread. I had never heard of him/her before, but it was interesting to compare the views expressed in the article to those expressed here.

Those readers who think that ladyboys are prostitutes and only work in Loi Kroh bars are actually revealing more about themselves than they are about ladyboys.

I think the main reason you don't see many 50+ ladyboys around is that in the 1960's, 1970's and 1980's there were fewer ladyboys in general than there are these days. Another reason is that they may prefer to stay at home just as the OP does.

NancyL · June 2, 2015

You might as well ask the question of what happens to Loi Kroh bar girls when they get to be age 65?

In the case of Caitlyn/Bruce she can go anywhere she wants, I imagine.

true blue · June 2, 2015

You might as well ask the question of what happens to Loi Kroh bar girls when they get to be age 65?

In the case of Caitlyn/Bruce she can go anywhere she wants, I imagine.

they just keep on working in loi kroh,

Konini · June 2, 2015

If they are older, out of the bars and masquerading as women, who would even notice them?

Very sad, but very true. Along with most older women they just become invisible. I know several older katoeys, they are as previously noted pretty much just camp older men.

I've always had the opinion that the majority of katoeys are not what we know as ladyboys. For me, ladyboys are prostitutes, katoeys are just people who believe that they were born in the wrong body. There is a huge difference between them, and the katoeys are amazingly gracious when paid a compliment - you can always find something nice to say to anyone you meet, even men with badly applied makeup.

Perhaps it's just because I'm a 51 year old woman, when giving compliments your mileage may vary.

Beetlejuice · June 2, 2015

You might as well ask the question of what happens to Loi Kroh bar girls when they get to be age 65?

In the case of Caitlyn/Bruce she can go anywhere she wants, I imagine.

For what I have seen, they are still working in the bars.

Torrens54 · June 2, 2015

Although I have no sources of information or proof, I do have my own theories regarding what happens to the Katoeys.in later life.

The one`s we most commonly see in the red light districts and soliciting for customers are mostly male prostitutes and are not and will never be post op transgender males. Once they become passed their prime, they then revert back to being males again and settling into normal lives.

The real aging post op transgender males are mostly from the middle to upper classes of Thai society and have professional occupations. There are many in the hospitality, cosmetic, fashion and film industries.

Om Napa is one such famous post op transgender male, seem frequently on Thai TV.

All seems rather sad eh?

Saan · June 3, 2015

A few years ago I saw on TV a program some of the former stars from Sydney's Les Girls, a pretty flash tranny cabaret, who were interviewed. In their hey days in the 60s and 70s these performers were stunners.

It was sad to see most of them looking like little old, balding men. Some might unkindly say, like many the denizens of some Chiang Mai bars.

There was also another TV show two or three years ago on an elderly, famous, I think Pattaya, katoey. She still keeps up appearances and puts on full war paint and dresses up but a wig was needed to cover a bald pate.

NeverSure · June 3, 2015

You might as well ask the question of what happens to Loi Kroh bar girls when they get to be age 65?

In the case of Caitlyn/Bruce she can go anywhere she wants, I imagine.

Look at recent photo of Jenner and he looks like any other 65 year old man. Then look at post op and there must have been a lot of facial plastic surgery.

WinnieTheKhwai · June 3, 2015

You might as well ask the question of what happens to Loi Kroh bar girls when they get to be age 65?

Most get married, get permanent or semi-permanent boyfriends or move away long before that. Facebook is nice in that way because you get to see their lives after they quit working in a bar. Most actually seem to do really well for themselves and are pretty indistinguishable from Thai women who never started out in bars in terms of family life, having kids, etc.

Getting back on topic, it's much harder for a trans woman to find a lasting relationship. It has helped that many Western countries now allow marriage, (even if inappropriately labeled 'same sex marriage') and a minority finds long term happiness that way. Most of course get into a relationship with a Thai man, though marriage is not yet an option here.

The reason it's difficult is that it takes a really confident man to get into an actual, public relationship or marriage with a trans woman. Holiday relationships or short encounters based on some kink or fetish is no problem to find at all, but an actual relationship.. That's difficult, mostly due to stigma I suppose. It basically requires a man to come out as gay even when he doesn't consider himself gay and is attracted to the female form. And finding work abroad is already difficult for a Thai women, but can be downright impossible for a trans woman. (Unlike Thailand, where it's a lot more feasible to find a regular job like any other person.

And some aren't going for the female look full time. Just some of the time, and can more easily switch back to a male appearance. In doing so they can then pursue a relationship with gay men, which is actually a lot more accepted form in society almost everywhere. Gay men wouldn't want them to be female though, so that inevitably means suppressing that part of themselves.

Edited June 3, 2015 by WinnieTheKhwai

Ulysses G. · June 3, 2015

The reason it's difficult is that it takes a really confident man to get into an actual, public relationship or marriage with a trans woman.

Or a real weirdo. I have met one or two guys who seemed normal enough in a relationship with a lady-boy, but not many.

Oscar2 · June 3, 2015

There was also another TV show two or three years ago on an elderly, famous, I think Pattaya, katoey. She still keeps up appearances and puts on full war paint and dresses up but a wig was needed to cover a bald pate.

if it's the show i think - a documentary about his life, he lived in squalor in one tiny room in Klong Toey or one of those Bangkok slums with nothing but a tattered scrapbook of glamour photos of himself taken in the 1960's. shortly after the show aired he died alone without a single Satang. people pitched in for a proper burial/cremation for him.

this documentary was on about a year ago as i recall. i suspect many of them end up like this.

SantiSuk · June 3, 2015

There are several older transgender males in our Isaan village. They appear to be in some kind of relationship with a Thai man, do normal jobs and go about life as would any normal woman in her 40s/ 50s. One runs a bamboo caf/restaurant. One manages a resort with her guy. None of them dress or make-up outrageously and nobody seems to give them a second thought - they are treated normally and I had to ask if they were trans.

I suspect that the answer is that many similarly disappear into the community without the kind of attention they would get in the tourist areas.

scottiejohn · June 3, 2015

There are several older transgender males in our Isaan village. They appear to be in some kind of relationship with a Thai man, do normal jobs and go about life as would any normal woman in her 40s/ 50s. One runs a bamboo caf/restaurant. One manages a resort with her guy. None of them dress or make-up outrageously and nobody seems to give them a second thought - they are treated normally and I had to ask if they were trans.

I suspect that the answer is that many similarly disappear into the community without the kind of attention they would get in the tourist areas.

If 'they' were going about their normal lives what made you ask if they were 'trans'?