French businessman electrocuted in Pattaya

[Maggusoil]

RIP.

Water and domestic electrics worldwide isnt a very god mix but water and Thai electrical installation standards = accident waiting to happen.

I am not Thai bashing, it is a sad truth that Thai Electrical Installation Standards are not very high.

I was just discussing their antipathy for earthing current yesterday.

[rebelplatoon]

On many occasions with rubber gloves, special screwdrivers and main boards off, I still got little shocks. I think there's some sort of electric leakage, maybe due to the chaos of wiring. When I built my own house I had the electrical wiring overseen by a foreign national and never had these problems since. RIP, sad for his wife.

[SOTIRIOS]

...nobody you can trust to begin with....

...thus every little problem becomes an obstacle....

...and this is the result.....

...truly a terrible tragedy.....

[colinneil]

R.I.P. poor man.

Why do people play with electrics? First step shut off electric at the main switch.

I know nothing about electrics, awhile back our pump stopped working, told my wife call electrian (Thai man) we have used him several times, problem dead ants in the switch. 40 baht was what he asked for, 30 seconds work but he knew what he was doing.

I would have been happy to pay 4000 baht, just to be safe.

[silent]

seems that after living few years in Thailand he realized he can fix the water pump better than thai technician, it costs him his life :-(

R.I.P.

No offence to the departed, "Technician"? Is that something like the title sanitation "engineer"? Sounds like it cost him his life doing what most other earthlings might do, and it did happen when really nobody but the coroner's inquest was there to give advice. :-(

[kannot]

RIP.

Water and domestic electrics worldwide isnt a very god mix but water and Thai electrical installation standards = accident waiting to happen.

I am not Thai bashing, it is a sad truth that Thai Electrical Installation Standards are not very high.

so you are blaming the Thais for this rather than blaming someone who was likely meddling with something he was not qualified to do, maybe a phone call to an electrician might have been the correct course of action - and I am electrically qualified and know the dangers

RIP

Recently I changed the wall isolating switches for the A/C and showers for safety ones, detect no earth etc. On turning the main switch box (RCD's) off I found by pure luck that the showers and A/C did NOT run through the switch box. I changed them live.

My point is, thats how good Thai electricians were in my case, dangerous and useless.

I di all my own electrics with earth and earth rod down the side of the crap tank overflow, had Tesco come and install and aircon, used wire colours purple and green with no earth, I went to my tool shed and got them the correct colours and an earth also.................they said they never fit an earth no need!!!!!

[sydneyjed]

Don't know what it is about electricity and water in Thailand..but 'death trap' springs to mind on more than a few occasions over the years!

At least 2 fatalities related to electrocutions in swimming pools in Phuket...one young tourist standing on a metal plate outside a shopping mall down there also electrocuted to death after a torrential downpour..the list goes on!

RIP..very sad for his young wife and baby will never see their father!

[Kerryd]

The quality of the electrical work here is one of my biggest fears (other than driving on the roads). Whenever I leave the house for more than a couple of days I unplug everything and turn off all of the circuit breakers. When I lived in South Pattaya I had a water heater installed in the bathroom of my apartment. The guy ran the cable from the heater to the front door and then, as I was watching, started poking at this octopus mess of wires above the ceiling tile. He found one he liked, undid the screw-cap connector, joined the new wire in and taped the lot together. It looked to me like one main power cable with numerous other ones spliced to it, some with plastic screw-caps, some just with tape. I bought a fire extinguisher the next day.

More recently, at the house I'm in now, I needed a main circuit breaker changed as the old cheap one was falling apart and would pop off for no reason (when the guy removed it, it literally fell apart into 4 pieces in his hand). I told him where the main powerbox was on the pole outside the house but he didn't see the need to disconnect the power and instead proceeded to remove the old and install the new circuit breaker while the lines were still live ! He would (very carefully) grab one wire with his insulated pliers and twist it to the side, then grab another one and do the same until he had them all out, then reversed the procedure when connecting them to the new breaker.

I actually had my friend's phone number up and ready to be called on my phone, expecting that when this guy electrocuted himself I'd call my friend to get him to get an ambulance dispatched ASAP. Fortunately nothing happened (and the new circuit breaker is working fine).

I like using these photos I took one day when I was living in South Pattaya, whenever I have to give a safety briefing about something:

[MockingJay]

Aaaaaaahhhh, a short circuit on a water pump in Thailand - a foreigner as the victim... Time for some serious Thai bashing!!!

Even though I am up for some good old Thai bashin' myself, wherever it applies, I can't ignore that in most cases like this one the foreigner always gets some extra bonus trust credit by the majority of posters. Ever considered that there also are a lot of uneducated foreigners out there? Some who might take on fixin' some electrical stuff, brake systems, gas stoves, etc. even though they haven't got a clue?

The death of this Frenchman is something that could have been avoided, yes - he could have avoided it by calling it a day, switch off the FI to the pump room and making an appointment with the electrician or property manager instead. Accidents happen, but this story leaves too much of a gray zone to be Thai bashed deservedly...

The saddest part of this one is that Francoise will not be able to meet his child and be a father to her. Sad tragedy indeed

RIP, poor Francoise, condolences to wife, relatives and friends.

Edited June 5, 2015 by MockingJay

[Bignose]

Yup ^^^.

And a 500 Baht RCBO would likely have saved him

EDIT For those interested in how to add an RCBO and other electrical safety issues please have a look here http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/693630-how-to-make-your-thai-electrical-system-safe/

Crossy, I'm sorry but I don't know you personally as I would love to speak to you to confirm what is your intent in posting the previous shortcut?

Is this as a guide to what to ask for (or expect) when others have a qualified electrician install or modify equipment, or is it a guide on how to complete this works themselves?

In spite of this sad and tragic accident (the very thought that this man has been taken while his wife is carrying their child is heartbreaking) I find it totally bewildering that anyone would continue to post advice for the uneducated and untrained to carry out electrical work themselves!!! I believe you (and others on TVF) have an electrical background? Does it not go against everything you were taught to share this kind of electrical information with the electrically untrained person?

Genuine apologies if I have misunderstood your post and its intent, it's just that every time an untrained person touches something electrical there is extreme potential for a repeat headline.

Please, no matter what you're qualifications or experience, please stop posting information to be used by others. I appreciate there is a huge amount of information available on the internet, but by readily engaging in this kind of technical exchange you are legitimizing or condoning this kind of amateur activity, you're training will/should tell you this is unacceptable.

Commiserations and condolences to his wife, family and friends...

[attrayant]

Perhaps a pair of rubber flip flops would have saved his life. Sad.

Flip-flops in Asia are as problematic as the electrical instalations. Most aren't made with natural or synthetic rubber; they're made with foam soles. Here's the difference:

Foam is porus and soaks up water like a sponge, where are natural rubber is water-tight. Most rubber is hydrophobic so water tends to bead-up and roll away under the force of gravity, leaving the surface dry and nonconductive.

If you're not sure which you have, try walking through a puddle and then walk on dry ground and see if any moisture squishes out of your soles when you walk. If it does, you're essentially walking on two wet sponges and might as well be barefooted as far as electricity is concerned.

Edited June 5, 2015 by attrayant

[mesquite]

Electrocuted and killed? Uh, kind of redundant, wouldn't you say?

Explain...?

In the strictest sense electrocution (as opposed to electric shock) implies death.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electrocution

No. In any sense electrocution means death by electrical shock. Nothing is implied.

Edited June 5, 2015 by mesquite

[DarrenLittlewood]

An Electrician in Thailand is more like a Magician. Your never more than a milliamp away from being electocuted in Thailand....Perhaps a pair of rubber flip flops would have saved his life. Sad.

"rubber flip flops" as safety shoes.....

that's what they use on construction sites too so they must be good

[chris13f]

An Electrician in Thailand is more like a Magician. Your never more than a milliamp away from being electocuted in Thailand....Perhaps a pair of rubber flip flops would have saved his life. Sad.

An Electrician in Thailand is called a motorbike taxi rider

[utkb]

RIP.

My first lesson in electricity was watching my dad thrown across the room from an electrical shock as a small boy. He was a very careful and registered professional engineer in the states. I've always been afraid of the stuff.

When I built my house in Hua Hin, we checked and rechecked all the electrical outlets. Made sure everyone was grounded. Still found loads of mistakes (putting all the kitchen appliances on the same circuit etc)

One of the last things I inspected was the installation of the outside water pump - of course they did not ground it. Went to a few of the neighbours in the project and found the builders had not ground any of the water pumps. A very easy yet often overlooked safety measure.

[dominique355]

Why did his house not have a residual current breaker? This should be mandatory and enforced by PEA.

I know it is not as inspection of private houses does not exist. All to often electric cabling and wiring in houses here is more a DIY job, even when done by professionals.

[Jing Joe]

Only needs a breakdown in the insulation of the windings of a motor (or other components) and the case is alive with the 240 volts IF there is no third wire; the EARTH.

Dont trust equipment when there is only two pin plugs. Double insulated drills etc are an exception.

Some Thai wall sockets have a third pin?

Even then there is no guarantee that earth wire finds its way via a decent connection to a decent copper rod into the ground.

Earth leakage circuit breakers are becoming compulsary elsewhere in the world.

I was nearly killed from a faulty motor in Thailand and luckily tested a pipe first with the back of the hand which pulled away and not clasped around it.

It was heat I was testing for, not "hot" volts.

How sad for his wife.

Edited June 5, 2015 by Jing Joe

[toolpush]

To the fellow who shut off his circuit breakers, worked on equipment and then found that the equipment worked on was live anyway: do you like living? Do you not have a multi-meter? Before I work on anything electric, I take my multi-meter and stick the pins into a plug-in socket I know is live to test that the meter is working and set up properly. Then I shut off the breaker to the equipment I am working on. Then I test to see if said equipment is live with the multi-meter. I test it at least twice, ensuring good contact with the pins. Only then do I work on that equipment.

Another common mistake I see is someone shutting off a control switch instead of the circuit breaker and then considering the equipment is isolated. That is not sufficient. Countless Thai "electricians" will wire the switch so that it switches the neutral wire instead of the load or hot wire. That means that the equipment will not run but it will be hot. Be very careful out there.

[sir charles IV]

Can you get electrocuted and not die? Uneducated fools pretending to be writers.

[Travelman868]

RIP.

Water and domestic electrics worldwide isnt a very god mix but water and Thai electrical installation standards = accident waiting to happen.

I am not Thai bashing, it is a sad truth that Thai Electrical Installation Standards are not very high.

so you are blaming the Thais for this rather than blaming someone who was likely meddling with something he was not qualified to do, maybe a phone call to an electrician might have been the correct course of action - and I am electrically qualified and know the dangers

RIP

If your a qualified electrician then you know that almost all electrics in Thailand are sub standard.

This poor guy may well have been just checking the the pump was switched on and touched the case. If the wiring was of any standard the circuit breaker should have tripped, of course if it was manditory to earth the electrics then most of these deaths would be avoided.

[FredNL]

Thailand and safe installed electricity = Thailand having a space station.

Both fairy tales

Edited June 5, 2015 by FredNL

[pinkpanther99]

Can you get electrocuted and not die? Uneducated fools pretending to be writers.

of course you can.

British English, being electrocuted can be non fatal.

You can be electrocuted by a small battery, that's not going to kill you.

Edited June 5, 2015 by pinkpanther99

[impulse]

Poncet owned the Port South Corporation which runs tourism business in Pattaya.

French guy. Laotian wife. How does he own a tourism business?

Very relevant.

Relevant to the headline of the OP? Probably not.

But if they did detailed investigations and followed up with two separate how-to articles on 1--How he was able to own a business in Thailand, and 2--How to install a water pump safely in Thailand, I know which one I'd read first.

[Argus Tuft]

An Electrician in Thailand is more like a Magician. Your never more than a milliamp away from being electocuted in Thailand....Perhaps a pair of rubber flip flops would have saved his life. Sad.

An Electrician in Thailand is called a motorbike taxi rider

??? What?

[ikbenhet]

Poncet owned the Port South Corporation which runs tourism business in Pattaya.

French guy. Laotian wife. How does he own a tourism business?

Very relevant.

Relevant to the headline of the OP? Probably not.

But if they did detailed investigations and followed up with two separate how-to articles on 1--How he was able to own a business in Thailand, and 2--How to install a water pump safely in Thailand, I know which one I'd read first.

Probably like the rest of us who own a Thai company and followed the rules.

You can read all about it on TV, just do a search.

I assume he had Thai partners and/or shareholders.

Edited June 5, 2015 by ikbenhet

[sandyf]

An Electrician in Thailand is more like a Magician. Your never more than a milliamp away from being electocuted in Thailand....Perhaps a pair of rubber flip flops would have saved his life. Sad.

I doubt it, a ground (under your feet) shock is usually not a killer - holding the pipes while touching a live connection is and is usually across the chest stopping the heart

This is what many do not seem to understand. I have had more shocks than care to remember, it is an unfortunate fact of life that familiarity breeds contempt which leads to risk.

I even had a 450v DC belt which fortunately just went through my hand, left a quarter inch deep hole on my finger at the point of contact.

[tmd5855]

When I built my home, told the electrician I wanted an Earth Leakage trip (RCD) and the wiring had to be a 3 wire system?? "Big Money"... "No Need" he said, I bought all the stuff, 6 earth spikes (1m) that were all linked around the house in a ring.

During heavy rain, power in the house would go off, traced fault to perimeter lighting, (replaced defective) Water pumps on house and fish pond, (replaced)

Being an electrical engineer, marine and offshore in various countries worldwide, seen some installations that were truly shocking (No pun intended) and an accident (death) just waiting to happen. Because you cannot see or smell a powered circuit everything looks normal (safe).

Ex GF parents house (Farm), I wired it using a 3 wire system, went back overseas for a month. Came back and GF said, mama were getting tingles from the washing machine she had just bought. Went up the farm, seen that they had placed an antique washing machine in the toilet/washroom, concrete floor always wet. But they had ran a 2 wire extension into the room. machine was always wet. Earthed it direct through the wall to an earthing spike. Fitted a socket at wall/roof height with its own earth. Changed wiring on machine to a 3 core, tested everything and all good.

Months later the GF let slip in conversation that her parents thought the problem of tingles came about because of all the extras that I had fitted, compared to the other Thai houses and their wiring.

Trying to tell her about: earthing being done by wire = Good. Human bodies doing the earthing = Bad.

Possible death, could not be grasped, "We never need before" she kept saying.......had me shaking my head.

Told her about a shock I had from a 600v circuit. Following a fire in the engine of a rig I were on "St++a Cl++e", There were so much damage systems had to be linked across and others needed to be back fed.

Working in semi-darkness, back of my hand brushed a bus-bar. Owing to the heat, I were covered in perspiration, current entered the skin on the back of my hand, travelled down the outside of my body and exited through the skin on my knee. More of a big fright than pain, because I suddenly realised how lucky I were.

Always told when working on live systems... Never have your free hand hold onto any metalwork.

Edited June 5, 2015 by tmd5855

[Jim walker]

RIP to Francois Marie Michel Poncet and my sincere condolences to his family and friend a very sad ending to probably a simple fault, Should have just called in the local professionals they dont mind the scary electrics and are willing to risk life and limb for a few baht very courageous of them.

[nabbie]

R.I.P.

[thousandpercent]

Once again, the know-it-all blowhards of Thai visa read six sentences and know exactly what happened and who is to blame. All the police, prosecutors, judges, juries, medical examiners, and forensics investigators should pack it in. They aren't needed. Thai visa knows everything already.

Regards, wordgoerdie.