Somyot rejects request for him to strip Thaksin of police rank again

[snooker4eva]

FARCICAL!!

[BestBitterPhuket]

Police showing their true colors and hedging their bets.

ALL the police tops should be investigated for crimes and corruption. All of them.

[cocopops]

One thing I love about the convictions though, he was convicted without being present. How can you have a trial like that?

It's called trial in abstention and is used in almost every legal system throughout the world.

Note that in that particular instance he was convicted based on evidence that his legal team was not allowed to hear. Which is less common.

[rubl]

Covering his back. This guy's not stupid.

Regardless of your political views, Thaksin has been convicted of a crime, jumped bail and became a fugitive and has 15 serious court cases outstanding. The DSI now are after charging him with LM, which is considered gravely serious here. He also appeared on video links encouraging supporters to break laws.

<deleted> how many more coppers here have committed crimes but allowed to keep their rank, been transferred or just told off?

Next he'll try sending it back because they used the wrong colored ink or wrong weight of paper.

Maybe he should be allowed to retire early. A career as a stock broker and financial wizard could be waiting.

Regardless of your views Thaksin co-signing a perfectly legal housing purchase by his wife is hardly the crime of the century. Court cases outstanding mean nothing. The fact that they couldn't bring them to trial says it all. Les Majeste is so over used that Thai lawyers are calling it a human rights abuse.

I dislike Thaksin and wish he would get hit by a truck, but this silly "international criminal" hysteria was boring and stupid five years ago. A million additional repetitions hasn't improved it.

Thaksin while PM signed to indicate his approval that his legal wife bid on a piece of land, owned by a government institute. Conflict of interest, too rich to need to be corrupt, but still unwilling to wait for those few years while representing ALL Thai as PM.

The outstanding cases could be 'brought to trial' as Thaksin first has to be present to hear and acknowledge charges and answer 'guilty' or 'not guilty'.

So, not an international criminal but simply a Thai criminal fugitive and bail jumper. All obfuscation around that doesn't improve the outstanding jail time or cases waiting for his return.

[rubl]

One thing I love about the convictions though, he was convicted without being present. How can you have a trial like that?

It's called trial in abstention and is used in almost every legal system throughout the world.

Note that in that particular instance he was convicted based on evidence that his legal team was not allowed to hear. Which is less common.

Since the trial had been able to start with Thaksin present to hear and acknowledge charges and answer 'not guilty', it didn't matter that Thaksin jumped bail, or that a few of his lawyers were sentenced to six month jail time for 'contempt of court' in relation to lunchboxes. The court could continue, a new Thaksin legal team was present, they did whatever a legal team does and Thaksin was convicted, sentenced. His legal team could file appeal within one month, but didn't.

Now as to 'evidence not allowed to hear' please tell me some more. Iseem to have forgotten what that was about.

[rubl]

So I've heard a lot of people complaining that the police are covering for their golden boy. What about the military going after their rival who leads the red shirts? It's okay because the military is doing it?

Furthermore, fugitives generally do not lose their passports. Countries that have police agreements generally share information with each other and are picked up when traveling. Somehow, I don't think China cares what Thailand thinks about Thaksin staying there.

Maybe he's a corrupt, idiotic, fool but revoking passports is abnormal for any fugitive and the obvious witch hunt continues. Fugitive or not.

Jeffrey, can you tell which countries will issue a new passport for a convicted fugitive on the run from a prison sentence? Furthermore, how do the authorities physically deliver the travel documentation to the fleeing fugitive in the countries you are referring to? Is there an amnesty on a certain day and they can pop in and collect it, or a "safe house" for issuing the passports that they use? I tried google searching how people on the run from prison can get their new passports but I can't find it.

It almost sounds like Thaksin propaganda which when you take a cold hard look at it, well it's absolute nonsense isn't it.

Issue? Not many but revoke? Almost unheard of. They revoked passports he held before he had fled or was convicted of anything. One thing I love about the convictions though, he was convicted without being present. How can you have a trial like that? Though I might run if I were wanted in Thailand, there's nothing fair or impartial about the justice system here.

They revoked passports AFTER Thaksin jumped bail. The court has confiscated his passport, but returned it to him when he promised to return from the Beijing trip and they granted him permission.

[rubl]

"The panel had failed to thoroughly determine how Thaksin's behaviour deserved the action, he said."

Being a bail jumper is obviously something which doesn't deserve this action. One might be excused to wonder if all police officers would jump bail in similar cases.

[wowfactor10]

Gosh another lining up for an attitude adjustment session

[BirdsandBooze]

The fact that a convicted criminal sill holds a police rank makes Thailand look like a corrupt 3rd world banana republic...

National police chief Pol Gen Somyot Pumpanmuang should be sacked for bringing the police force into disrepute.

Is it reputable to begin with? Edited June 5, 2015 by BirdsandBooze

[rubl]

Gosh another lining up for an attitude adjustment session

In other countries he would be asked to hand in his resignation.

[NovaBlue05]

perhaps because he is a criminal on the run, I would have thought that was obvious but not to some

A political refugee on the run

[NovaBlue05]

The fact that a convicted criminal sill holds a police rank makes Thailand look like a corrupt 3rd world banana republic...

National police chief Pol Gen Somyot Pumpanmuang should be sacked for bringing the police force into disrepute.

Is it reputable to begin with?

Ironically, Thailand is viewed globally as a 3rd world banana republic in large part because of how they ousted Thaksin in 2006 as well as every elected govt since which they considered a Thaksin proxy.

[keskeseksa]

First round, why jump to conclusions?

[Baerboxer]

Covering his back. This guy's not stupid.

Regardless of your political views, Thaksin has been convicted of a crime, jumped bail and became a fugitive and has 15 serious court cases outstanding. The DSI now are after charging him with LM, which is considered gravely serious here. He also appeared on video links encouraging supporters to break laws.

<deleted> how many more coppers here have committed crimes but allowed to keep their rank, been transferred or just told off?

Next he'll try sending it back because they used the wrong colored ink or wrong weight of paper.

Maybe he should be allowed to retire early. A career as a stock broker and financial wizard could be waiting.

Regardless of your views Thaksin co-signing a perfectly legal housing purchase by his wife is hardly the crime of the century. Court cases outstanding mean nothing. The fact that they couldn't bring them to trial says it all. Les Majeste is so over used that Thai lawyers are calling it a human rights abuse.

I dislike Thaksin and wish he would get hit by a truck, but this silly "international criminal" hysteria was boring and stupid five years ago. A million additional repetitions hasn't improved it.

Your second post in 8 years - must have touched a nerve.

Nothing to do with buying a house. Try looking the facts up. Not the crime of the century but he was convicted, lawfully by a court and chose for flee rather than appeal. And this was when one of his puppet governments was in power. Does that not suggest something to you?

The Abhisit government didn't have the appetite to try and bring him back - more trouble than it's worth, too much might come out? Who knows?

The Yingluck government tried desperately to bring him back - and whitewash his conviction, bail jumping offence (which you somehow missed), the outstanding 15 court cases and make it so that no new ones could be brought against him. A tad bias against justice don't you think?

Thaksin knew he was breaking laws but didn't think anyone would dare do anything against him. He then tried bribing the judges. Which Thai lawyers are calling it HR abuse - the ones who carry pastry boxes to judges for him?

So we have someone who knowingly breaks laws, tries to pervert the course of justice, chooses to become a fugitive and you think it's ok for that person to still hold a senior police rank?

Or are you another who wants to suggest Thaksin is "special" and the laws don't apply to him?

[Baerboxer]

Somyot says panel must explain how Thaksin 'offended police dignity'

The Nation

BANGKOK: -- NATIONAL police chief General Somyot Poompanmuang said Friday he has sent back a request for him to strip former prime minister Thaksin Shinawatra of his rank as a police lieutenant colonel to the police committee that considered the issue.

The panel had failed to thoroughly determine how Thaksin's behaviour deserved the action, he said.

Previously, Somyot sent back a request to strip Thaksin of his rank on grounds that a panel member failed to sign his name to endorse the decision.

"I insist that I'm not buying time. I don't fear [anything]. Everything must go through the process in accordance with the regulations," Somyot told reporters.

According to the 2004 regulation on police rank, an officer is to be stripped their rank if they violate the regulation through behaviour that damages the dignity and reputation of police, he said.

Source: http://www.nationmultimedia.com/politics/Somyot-says-panel-must-explain-how-Thaksin-offende-30261704.html

-- The Nation 2015-06-05

Being convicted by a court, jumping bail, having your legal team busted for attempting to bribe judges. having 15 outstanding cases waiting in the courts:

yep, hard to see how police dignity has been offended.

[geriatrickid]

Perhaps his last act of defiance or Taksin appointed him. Either way two years is a Felony in most countries and a Felon may not be a Police Officer.

There is no such thing as a felony in most countries. It is a term more common in the USA.

The 2 year jail sentence was in respect to a CONSTITUTIONAL proceeding and not a penal code action. More specifically, the section related to "conflict of interest".

Do you know anything about the Constitution of 2007? This was the Constitution the military junta imposed upon the nation following its assumption of power. A "highlight" was the removal of Senate elections such that only half of the Senate was elected while the other half was appointed by the military. The powers of the executive branch were gutted and the number of MPs needed to propose a no-confidence vote compared was cut in half in comparison to the Constitution of 1997. This is the Constitution where the military appointed judges were given the authority to appoint Senators, and members of all independent agencies including the election commission. The military at the time basically ensured that it had absolute control by way of its proxies, the judges it had and would appoint.

[cookee68]

How on earth would a fugitive ever retain that position, only happens in a 3rd world country, sorry but I don't think they will ever progress in their education, and if you look at the college statistics on the way they act, then the children of the future will be the children of the past,

[cookee68]

Perhaps his last act of defiance or Taksin appointed him. Either way two years is a Felony in most countries and a Felon may not be a Police Officer.

There is no such thing as a felony in most countries. It is a term more common in the USA.

The 2 year jail sentence was in respect to a CONSTITUTIONAL proceeding and not a penal code action. More specifically, the section related to "conflict of interest".

Do you know anything about the Constitution of 2007? This was the Constitution the military junta imposed upon the nation following its assumption of power. A "highlight" was the removal of Senate elections such that only half of the Senate was elected while the other half was appointed by the military. The powers of the executive branch were gutted and the number of MPs needed to propose a no-confidence vote compared was cut in half in comparison to the Constitution of 1997. This is the Constitution where the military appointed judges were given the authority to appoint Senators, and members of all independent agencies including the election commission. The military at the time basically ensured that it had absolute control by way of its proxies, the judges it had and would appoint.

Why should a criminal keep his title position, and remember, whether it was Constitutional, or penal, the 2 years prison sentence will still make him a criminal, or he would not have received a prison sentence, if you went to prison as a Sir, you would come out as a Mr

[cocopops]

One thing I love about the convictions though, he was convicted without being present. How can you have a trial like that?

It's called trial in abstention and is used in almost every legal system throughout the world.

Note that in that particular instance he was convicted based on evidence that his legal team was not allowed to hear. Which is less common.

Since the trial had been able to start with Thaksin present to hear and acknowledge charges and answer 'not guilty', it didn't matter that Thaksin jumped bail, or that a few of his lawyers were sentenced to six month jail time for 'contempt of court' in relation to lunchboxes. The court could continue, a new Thaksin legal team was present, they did whatever a legal team does and Thaksin was convicted, sentenced. His legal team could file appeal within one month, but didn't.

Now as to 'evidence not allowed to hear' please tell me some more. Iseem to have forgotten what that was about.

The evidence was given by Pridiyathorn Devakula.

[coulson]

According to the 2004 regulation on police rank, an officer is to be stripped their rank if they violate the regulation through behaviour that damages the dignity and reputation of police, he said.

So when does he strip himself?

[smedly]

Somyot says panel must explain how Thaksin 'offended police dignity'

The Nation

BANGKOK: -- NATIONAL police chief General Somyot Poompanmuang said Friday he has sent back a request for him to strip former prime minister Thaksin Shinawatra of his rank as a police lieutenant colonel to the police committee that considered the issue.

The panel had failed to thoroughly determine how Thaksin's behaviour deserved the action, he said.

Previously, Somyot sent back a request to strip Thaksin of his rank on grounds that a panel member failed to sign his name to endorse the decision.

"I insist that I'm not buying time. I don't fear [anything]. Everything must go through the process in accordance with the regulations," Somyot told reporters.

According to the 2004 regulation on police rank, an officer is to be stripped their rank if they violate the regulation through behaviour that damages the dignity and reputation of police, he said.

Source: http://www.nationmultimedia.com/politics/Somyot-says-panel-must-explain-how-Thaksin-offende-30261704.html

-- The Nation 2015-06-05

Being convicted by a court, jumping bail, having your legal team busted for attempting to bribe judges. having 15 outstanding cases waiting in the courts:

yep, hard to see how police dignity has been offended.

Either it is extremely bad reporting (not unusual) or I completely fail to understand what is going on here

sure why not give Thaksin a promotion for his skills at avoiding arrest - Jail - and all the charges he has yet to answer in court.........................hurrah General Thaksin - the number one man of honour in ......"not" in Thailand, please come and collect your new rank.................rank as in stink

I am honestly at a complete loss with this country, it would appear that dirty money will buy anything or that is how it seems

[EnglishJohn]

what I would like to know is why is the police chief above the courts?

good question ....

but my question : why an army is above an elected Government by 2 times already..?? (and more in the past )

.... errr ... because that elected government were using their terrorist arm to murder their own people for daring to exercise their democratic right to protest (and they were doing it peacefully).

Did you sleep through that bit, or did you conveniently choose to ignore it because it doesn't suit your aim ?.

When you people show you are fit for democracy, you might be able to keep it for more than a few years.

[rubl]

The fact that a convicted criminal sill holds a police rank makes Thailand look like a corrupt 3rd world banana republic...

National police chief Pol Gen Somyot Pumpanmuang should be sacked for bringing the police force into disrepute.

Is it reputable to begin with?

Ironically, Thailand is viewed globally as a 3rd world banana republic in large part because of how they ousted Thaksin in 2006 as well as every elected govt since which they considered a Thaksin proxy.

Absolutely, viewed globally, especially by a few esteemed posters. Welcome to the club, my dear friend.

In the mean time, we have a national police chief who can see nothnig wrong with a criminal fugitive having been hand delivered a nice new passport by his relative who happened to be MoFA at the time and thanks to some boats could still get into his flooded offices to prepare the new passport. Now this of course helps in the 'banana kingdom' image.

Edited June 5, 2015 by rubl

[rubl]

Perhaps his last act of defiance or Taksin appointed him. Either way two years is a Felony in most countries and a Felon may not be a Police Officer.

There is no such thing as a felony in most countries. It is a term more common in the USA.

The 2 year jail sentence was in respect to a CONSTITUTIONAL proceeding and not a penal code action. More specifically, the section related to "conflict of interest".

Do you know anything about the Constitution of 2007? This was the Constitution the military junta imposed upon the nation following its assumption of power. A "highlight" was the removal of Senate elections such that only half of the Senate was elected while the other half was appointed by the military. The powers of the executive branch were gutted and the number of MPs needed to propose a no-confidence vote compared was cut in half in comparison to the Constitution of 1997. This is the Constitution where the military appointed judges were given the authority to appoint Senators, and members of all independent agencies including the election commission. The military at the time basically ensured that it had absolute control by way of its proxies, the judges it had and would appoint.

Not sure what your arguments have to do with the case at hand. This is not about the 2007 constitution, not even the 1997 version. This is about a national police chief who cannot see anything wrong with a criminal fugitive still formally retaining his police rank. Even if the conviction was unjust, normal procedure is first dismissal and automatic stripping of rank followed by a possible reinstate if the conviction is overturned at a later stage. With neither Thaksin nor his legal team lodging an appeal the conviction and sentencing is final.

So, jumping bail after a solemn promise not to do so is not morally corrupt enough? Police officers not bound by their oath?

[rubl]

Perhaps his last act of defiance or Taksin appointed him. Either way two years is a Felony in most countries and a Felon may not be a Police Officer.

There is no such thing as a felony in most countries. It is a term more common in the USA.

The 2 year jail sentence was in respect to a CONSTITUTIONAL proceeding and not a penal code action. More specifically, the section related to "conflict of interest".

Do you know anything about the Constitution of 2007? This was the Constitution the military junta imposed upon the nation following its assumption of power. A "highlight" was the removal of Senate elections such that only half of the Senate was elected while the other half was appointed by the military. The powers of the executive branch were gutted and the number of MPs needed to propose a no-confidence vote compared was cut in half in comparison to the Constitution of 1997. This is the Constitution where the military appointed judges were given the authority to appoint Senators, and members of all independent agencies including the election commission. The military at the time basically ensured that it had absolute control by way of its proxies, the judges it had and would appoint.

Not sure what your arguments have to do with the case at hand. This is not about the 2007 constitution, not even the 1997 version. This is about a national police chief who cannot see anything wrong with a criminal fugitive still formally retaining his police rank. Even if the conviction was unjust, normal procedure is first dismissal and automatic stripping of rank followed by a possible reinstate if the conviction is overturned at a later stage. With neither Thaksin nor his legal team lodging an appeal the conviction and sentencing is final.

So, jumping bail after a solemn promise not to do so is not morally corrupt enough? Police officers not bound by their oath?

[rubl]

perhaps because he is a criminal on the run, I would have thought that was obvious but not to some

A political refugee on the run

An oath breaking bail jumping former police officer turned criminal fugitive. Morally corrupt individual who in any other country would have been stripped of his rank immediately.

[rubl]

It's called trial in abstention and is used in almost every legal system throughout the world.

Note that in that particular instance he was convicted based on evidence that his legal team was not allowed to hear. Which is less common.

Since the trial had been able to start with Thaksin present to hear and acknowledge charges and answer 'not guilty', it didn't matter that Thaksin jumped bail, or that a few of his lawyers were sentenced to six month jail time for 'contempt of court' in relation to lunchboxes. The court could continue, a new Thaksin legal team was present, they did whatever a legal team does and Thaksin was convicted, sentenced. His legal team could file appeal within one month, but didn't.

Now as to 'evidence not allowed to hear' please tell me some more. Iseem to have forgotten what that was about.

The evidence was given by Pridiyathorn Devakula.

Tell me more, especially tell me about the reasoning the court gave in their verdict and how that relates to information no one has seen or heard of?

[rubl]

Perhaps his last act of defiance or Taksin appointed him. Either way two years is a Felony in most countries and a Felon may not be a Police Officer.

There is no such thing as a felony in most countries. It is a term more common in the USA.

The 2 year jail sentence was in respect to a CONSTITUTIONAL proceeding and not a penal code action. More specifically, the section related to "conflict of interest".

Do you know anything about the Constitution of 2007? This was the Constitution the military junta imposed upon the nation following its assumption of power. A "highlight" was the removal of Senate elections such that only half of the Senate was elected while the other half was appointed by the military. The powers of the executive branch were gutted and the number of MPs needed to propose a no-confidence vote compared was cut in half in comparison to the Constitution of 1997. This is the Constitution where the military appointed judges were given the authority to appoint Senators, and members of all independent agencies including the election commission. The military at the time basically ensured that it had absolute control by way of its proxies, the judges it had and would appoint.

Tell me what the 2007 or even the 1997 constitution has to do with a national police chief finding nothing wrong with a convicted former police officer who resigned still retaining his rank formally?

Police officers and even former police officers can retain their rank even after jumping bail and breaking a solemn promise? Police officers don't need to be as honest of normal citizens? One simple expects them to lie and cheat and break solemn promises ? Is it like that back in your home country and you consider that the moral standard to judge others by?

[fareastguy]

"The first criteria details seven serious offences and the second explains whether such offence or misbehaviour will damage the reputation of the organisation, or is considered a dishonour to remain in the police rank, he said."

So doesn't being a convicted fugitive on the run fall into any of these categories ie. dishonoring the police force??? Or do they consider a fugitive on the run as standard operating procedure for a person to hold police ranking?

Please do remember this is Thailand.. normal rules do not apply !!

This was not an unexpected outcome in a country where taking action against someone "up the tree" can have very severe consequences !!

[selftaopath]

I am growing quite fatigued at this country's "circle jerk" in EVERYTHING. It would be simple if anyone/someone just sought Truth. All these personal agendas. Thais claim to LOVE THAILAND. Really?????? I've seen very little interest in putting the welfare of Thailand and her people first. Just corrupt - practically everybody - scratching and clawing for more more more more more.

What's the point?