Profiled And Harrassed By Immigration / Customs?

[crawford]

Last night John, of the "John & Jeff Show" (an American talk-radio program) discussed his ordeal upon returning home from a 1 week vacation in Thailand. He was singled out for interrogation and baggage search, apparently just because he was a single white guy in his thirties coming back from Thailand.

At immigration in Los Angeles (LAX), he handed his passport and "declaration card" to the agent. Agent asked "what's your social security number?". John answered, and was allowed to pass through to the baggage area.

While waiting for his baggage, he decided to check his cell-phone messages, which had accumulated during his week outside the country. As he was listening, he had the feeling he was being watched, and realized that a Customs & Immigration agent was eyeballing him as he slowly circled him TWICE.

As soon as he got off the phone, they guy was in his face with all kinds of questions, rapid fire:

May I see your papers? (hands his passport and "declaration card" to agent)

Where are you coming from? (Thailand).

Really? What were you doing there? (vacation).

Do you travel a lot? (Not internationally - I usually travel domestically). This was apparently John's first overseas trip, and he'd only applied for his passport two months earlier.

What do you do for a living? (I'm in the broadcasting business).

Really? So why did you go to Thailand? (Well, I heard it was a nice place to go).

Where did you go in Thailand? (I spent four days in Phuket, and then a few more in Bangkok).

How long were you over there? (a week).

What did you do there? (I went snorkeling in Phuket, and did some sightseeing in Bangkok).

Are you bringing anything back from Thailand? (I bought a couple of gifts).

Really! Who are they for? (family and friends).

Are you bringing any food or beverages? (just some instant coffee that I got from the hotel).

(John notices the agent writing some kind of code on his "declaration card".)

OK. (agent hands him his passport and card).

John finally gets his luggage and proceeds toward the exit.

He comes upon another agent who asks for his papers. John hands them over, the guy looks at them, and says "Oh, you have to go over THERE", pointing to an inspection station.

There was only one other person being inspected, out of maybe 300 people who'd gotten off of two planes. The same agent who'd circled and questioned him at baggage claim now asked him for his papers AGAIN. He asked him some more questions, and took about a minute to type something into a computer. He then put on rubber gloves and asked John to unlock his luggage, whereupon he searched through his stuff, finding nothing of course. He took no interest in the instant coffee. Then he started to SLOWLY re-pack the bag. John asked "would you like me to do that?" And the agent says "Well, that would be up to you!"

-----------------------------

I (pretty clean cut, white guy, mid thirties, never did drugs in my life, absolutely no criminal record, etc.) remember coming back from Asia back in year 2000, also through Los Angeles International airport. I'd been to Thailand, China, Taiwan and Hong Kong. Everything went fine, but just as I was exiting the baggage area with my luggage, it happened - the only time I've ever been questioned by a customs/immigration agent. An agent came running up to me:

agent: "excuse me - what were you doing in Thailand?"

me: ("Uhhh...just vacationing...")

agent: "Did you buy any drugs?"

me: (shocked "No, of course not!")

agent: squinting at me "so what was it - the girls? Do you like the girls? (sort of a guy-to-guy wink thing going on)

me: (thinking - <deleted>??? - but saying yes wouldn't exactly be admitting to whoremongering or anything, and in any case, beats being a druggie, and I just want to give this guy something so I can get out of here - "uh, sure - the girls are beautiful...")

]

agent: big smile - "Aahhh!! That's it - you like the girls!

me: sheepishly, wondering what the f I'd just gotten myself into, if anything - just shrugged my shoulders like 'yeah'.

agent: OK -

And I left the area and was on my way, shocked, and wondering what the hel_l that was all about, and if he was going to go back to his computer and put a note in my dossier about how I'm some kind of pervert or sex tourist or whoremonger or worse.

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So these are my questions:

1) Did I do the right thing in saying "yes, the girls are beautiful" to the agent? What would've been the best way to handle that line of questioning?

2) Does this kind of thing happen only to Americans coming back to the US? Or do other nationalities receive the same kind of questioning when coming from Thailand to the US, or to other countries?

3) Why were we singled out? What kind of profile might we have fit?

4) How common is this kind of thing?

5) What countries other than Thailand seem to red flag you for interrogation or search?

6) Tell us your experiences!

[OneeyedJohn]

paranoid alarmist crap

[lannarebirth]

I've been to 57 countries and cleared Customs back in the US dozens of times. Not once has anything like that ever happened to me. Those immigration officers you dealt with went well beyond the scope of their duties in interrogating you IMO. It's perfectly legitimate to ask if the trip was for business, vacation, education, etc; but unless they've caught you in violation of some Immigration or Customs law, the specifics of your visit and your personal habits are none of their damned business.

[kmart]

"None of your f*ing business!" might have thrown him a bit. Nosey sod.

[Thaiquila]

I get hassled and searched sometimes by US customs. Never had any problem with any other customs agents anywhere else in the world. I doesn't pay to be anything but polite and answer all questions as directly as possible, with the fewest number of words as possible. I always remember, they are not my friend, and they have power and guns. What really bugs me is that it is such a long flight to the US, thats the last thing I am in the mood for.

Edited September 13, 2006 by Thaiquila

[Matt1036]

I have had similar treatment coming back into Australia after a week or so in Thailand. They call it a random security check ...makes me feel so secure as I stand next to the baggage carousel with more and more SCUBA gear piling up at my feet, wearing some T-shirt with Fred's Dive School Phuket Thailand written all over it, third degree sunburn above the neck and coral scars turning septic on my arms and legs to be asked...."Soooo....Mr (reads passport and mispronounces my name) just what were you doing in Thailand this time?"

[crawford]

Man I really regret admitting that I think Thai girls are beautiful.

I guess I could've just looked at him as if I was just dumbfounded by the question, and never answered....or maybe I could've said "girls? I have a girlfriend..."

I'm sure that <deleted> put something in the computer that's gonna come back to haunt me next time I return to the states.

[Old Croc]

"None of your f*ing business!" might have thrown him a bit. Nosey sod.

It may be self satisfying to tell a Customs Officer where to go, but it's not very smart!

I've seen a stroppy, rude passenger take about an hour and a half to clear baggage while the ultra cool CO painstaking removed every individual item of clothing from the bag and then slowly and deliberately folded and repacked them. He had all night before his shift finished, the passenger was in a hurry.

Airports have people whose sole job is to watch passengers, profile them, or, on just a gut feeling, put them in for complete baggage examination. Travellers from Thailand do come under extra scrutiny from some profilers because it is considered a hub (!) for drugs and underaged sex tourism.

[crawford]

Is there any way to get out of the profile - for instance, is it partly dependent on how you dress?

I mean, I dress pretty clean cut - maybe jeans, a polo shirt, etc., but should I dress like a businessman next time? Maybe carry a sportcoat and a briefcase?

[crawford]

Well, my poll indicates that this happens to quite a few people...

Any US Immigration & Customs agents out there?

[Vespa]

Not sure of the exact law , but when entering USA regardless if you are a citizen or not, Customs has the right to detain you.

I had one bad experience @ JFK in New York City where I was "detained" in a room with 3 inspectors who seemed to take great pleasure looking up the crack of my asss while I was bending over for them holding up my nut sack.

[Thaiquila]

Not sure of the exact law , but when entering USA regardless if you are a citizen or not, Customs has the right to detain you.

I had one bad experience @ JFK in New York City where I was "detained" in a room with 3 inspectors who seemed to take great pleasure looking up the crack of my asss while I was bending over for them holding up my nut sack.

Oh, you got the VIP treatment!

I don't think it makes any difference how you dress if they suspect you for another reason. And just being a single male coming from Thailand gets you search points. Any really guilty person could dress well to fool the agents. I actually think one of the main risks of being searched is if you show nervousness. I am rather high strung and since I have been hassled before, I tend to have a negative gut reaction and my bp goes up just at the sight of these agents, and they are trained to smell that ... I should probably take valium before arriving.

[qualtrough]

I have traveled all over the world for the last 35 years, and without a doubt the worst customs and immigration experiences have been in the US--hands down--and I am a US citizen. If you are asked an inappropriate question such as "Are you there for the girls?" you should immediately ask to speak with a supervisor and file a formal complaint. You are under no obligation to answer rhetorical questions about personal preferences.

On my last visit with my family (wife, two daughters) the immigration officer in Seattle looked like she was going to go postal as she made a big deal out of removing our passports from their plastic covers. Didn't say one word the entire time, but made it very clear she was disgusted and angry that she had to do that. If she had asked me if we could remove them I would have happily done so. BTW, that is the first and last time I have seen anyone remove the covers.

I had one US official ask me whether or not a I was a secular humanist when he discovered I was doing field research for a Ph.D. in Thailand. Unfortunately I didn't follow the advice I just gave above as it only registered with me after I left the line.

Edited September 13, 2006 by qualtrough

[crawford]

Hmmm....ask to speak to his supervisor? Maybe I'm paranoid, but I fear that would only get me more trouble, maybe detention, strip search, etc.

It never occured to me that I would ever have anything to worry about. I've always been a very law-abiding type of person.

Who knew that just going to Thailand puts you in a profile and these thugs think they have the right to <deleted> with you?

If it's only the US that does this kind of thing, maybe I'll start looking for different citizenship, or at least a new permanent residence.

Could those of you who are answering (or have answered) the poll please state your nationality?

Thanks so much.

[Thaiquila]

I would guess it is mostly Americans being hassled. Its going to get worse for awhile at least, thanks to the wacko confessing "teacher". I knew when that happened, there would be really lousy consequences in Thailand and the US.

Edited September 13, 2006 by Thaiquila

[meadish_sweetball]

Not sure of the exact law , but when entering USA regardless if you are a citizen or not, Customs has the right to detain you.

I had one bad experience @ JFK in New York City where I was "detained" in a room with 3 inspectors who seemed to take great pleasure looking up the crack of my asss while I was bending over for them holding up my nut sack.

Oh, you got the VIP treatment!

I don't think it makes any difference how you dress if they suspect you for another reason. And just being a single male coming from Thailand gets you search points. Any really guilty person could dress well to fool the agents. I actually think one of the main risks of being searched is if you show nervousness. I am rather high strung and since I have been hassled before, I tend to have a negative gut reaction and my bp goes up just at the sight of these agents, and they are trained to smell that ... I should probably take valium before arriving.

Sorry Thaiquila, I just got this inner vision of a haggard, weary middle aged man, jet flight stubbles, wrinkled suit, droopy eyelids, jerking nervously trying to stay awake (think the Kramer character in Seinfeld) trying to walk past customs agents pretending its raining.

I know what it's like to be hassled by customs officers though, as I dont look too Swedish myself and used to have long hair as well (hey, that's pretty suspicious! )... but I think the above scene could make great comedy. Let's send it to Jerry Seinfeld and see if he can do something with it.

[jdinasia]

going home is when I have NO stress regarding customs immigration. Just smile and answer questions if asked .....

it is everywhere else that the stress of dealing with IO gets on my nerves!1

[popshirt]

I have been back and forth to Thailand dozens of times, always arriving at LAX Never once have I been searched.

But if an officer had asked me if I went there for the girls, I would say, "NOOOOOOO I go there for the boys!"

[Old Croc]

Is there any way to get out of the profile - for instance, is it partly dependent on how you dress?

I mean, I dress pretty clean cut - maybe jeans, a polo shirt, etc., but should I dress like a businessman next time? Maybe carry a sportcoat and a briefcase?

As long as you don't dress like complete shit it doesn't make a difference. Sometimes dressing up in a suit will have the opposite effect. Only the rich buggers in the pointy end feel the need to wear a suit on a plane, anyone else may be trying to pretend they're something they're not.

The inane questions about where have you been, how long there, do you like the girls, etc are usually just a tool to get the passenger talking. This is when their demenour, body language, accent, nervousness, etc are assessed. The questions can be meaningless, but the information gathered about the other stuff determines the outcome.

[endure]

When I was at sea we used to do a run between Odessa and Stockton Ca. The US INS agents were far and away worse than the USSR immigration agents. They both used to search the ship before we left - the Americans looking to make sure that no-one had jumped ship to try and stay in the US - the Soviets to make sure we didn't have any extra 'passengers'

[Thaiquila]

Not sure of the exact law , but when entering USA regardless if you are a citizen or not, Customs has the right to detain you.

I had one bad experience @ JFK in New York City where I was "detained" in a room with 3 inspectors who seemed to take great pleasure looking up the crack of my asss while I was bending over for them holding up my nut sack.

Oh, you got the VIP treatment!

I don't think it makes any difference how you dress if they suspect you for another reason. And just being a single male coming from Thailand gets you search points. Any really guilty person could dress well to fool the agents. I actually think one of the main risks of being searched is if you show nervousness. I am rather high strung and since I have been hassled before, I tend to have a negative gut reaction and my bp goes up just at the sight of these agents, and they are trained to smell that ... I should probably take valium before arriving.

Sorry Thaiquila, I just got this inner vision of a haggard, weary middle aged man, jet flight stubbles, wrinkled suit, droopy eyelids, jerking nervously trying to stay awake (think the Kramer character in Seinfeld) trying to walk past customs agents pretending its raining.

I know what it's like to be hassled by customs officers though, as I dont look too Swedish myself and used to have long hair as well (hey, that's pretty suspicious! )... but I think the above scene could make great comedy. Let's send it to Jerry Seinfeld and see if he can do something with it.

Funny! Made me laugh. But I don't even own a suit, not even a wrinkly one ...

Once I actually accidentally did something that I know caused a search. I was very spaced out and jet lagged and when I walked by an agent I accidentally kind of wheeled my luggage right into an agent (didn't hit him but on the way). That was enough ...

[IMA_FARANG]

I've been to 57 countries and cleared Customs back in the US dozens of times. Not once has anything like that ever happened to me. Those immigration officers you dealt with went well beyond the scope of their duties in interrogating you IMO. It's perfectly legitimate to ask if the trip was for business, vacation, education, etc; but unless they've caught you in violation of some Immigration or Customs law, the specifics of your visit and your personal habits are none of their damned business.

I'm glad you were never searched or hassled in U.S. immigration. I had luggage search and a physical search on arrival in Anchoradge Alaska back in the 80's. I was arriving from Thailand via Japan at the time. I was asked why I was coming to Alaska, and truthfully replied that I was going to be working in Alaska for a company called Collins Radio as an electronics technician. Collins is a multi-national company that makes a lot of avionics and communications equipment including equipment for the U.S. military. The customs inspector said, "Well, I've never heard of that company." He then proceded to take every item of clothing out of my suitcase and piled it on the counter. A search was negative, so he took out a narrow bladed knife, and probed into the lining of my luggage apparently looking for drugs. That left 4 or 5 holes in the suitcase. Still nothing.

I had 2 charcoal drawings that I had made on my travels by a local artist in Ethiopia (I worked there for Collins Radio for a year). Having found nothing in my clothing or suitcase he them cut the charcoal drawins out of the frames. Still nothing found. he then told me,"I guess you don't have anything illegal do you?" I said no I didn't, but it would have saved us both a lot of time if he had just asked me before he went through the whole procedure. He just laughed and told me to repack my stuff and leave.

When I look back on it I can see why I fit the profile. I was then in my middle 30's, had traveled in Ethiopia, India, and Thailand.

[Rinrada]

Had to do a runner into Kuwait once and was asked by a nice American Gov.guy if I would mind stopping off at their Embassy for a Coffee with their Ambassador....yes sure ..Mac..

They then sent round one of those big black caddis that you see in the Films and sure enough had a very pleasant chat with H.E...or dont you call them H.Es...

Later on I had a wee bit of a sort of De briefing sort of thingy with a couple of lads with the crewcut hair styles,sharp suits (in Kuwait ..it was hot hot) and Tom Cruise "Shades"..good old boys..was thanked and then dropped back at my temp.digs...

The British Consul on the other hand was too busy worrying if I wanted one of his beers (from a Safe in the Wall) ......No Hassle ...

[GuestHouse]

Given the sh1t customs and imigration have to deal with I have no problem being polite for a few moments while they do their job.

[The Dan Sai Kid]

Given the sh1t customs and imigration have to deal with I have no problem being polite for a few moments while they do their job.

I found that the immigration for connection flights in Heathrow was really rude. Not the main immigration - who are so busy they don't have time to be <deleted>!

[Thaiquila]

Given the sh1t customs and imigration have to deal with I have no problem being polite for a few moments while they do their job.

I also believe in being polite but I think they DISH OUT alot more than they take.

Thats their job and it seems for US customs agents, being obnoxious is one of the requirements.

Edited September 13, 2006 by Thaiquila

[moonoi]

Given the sh1t customs and imigration have to deal with I have no problem being polite for a few moments while they do their job.

And it doesn't hurt them to be polite either.

The worst experience I had was arriving at customs/immigration at DFW from CDG. Being grilled about my last visit to the US the year before and then because I didn't know my friends address (I was arriving for her wedding) in my head having to undergo a whole pile more useless questions that seemed to me just designed to annoy me rather than give the immigration official any information about me. I felt like getting on the plane and return home to Paris. There was no need for the official to be so agressive in her questioning, I don't care how much "sh1t" they have to deal with, they chose to do the job no one forced them.

Certainly that experience along with the implementation of the US VISIT program and the exchanging of PAX information that isn't really relevant to security by airlines when you travel to the US means that I will never return there. I don't trust the US Government to not sell or "accidently" distribute that data to a third party.

[boppia]

I always get singled out even though I look like a clean guy boring American in his 30's. But they single me out both ways - going to and coming from Thailand. I'd guess if you live outside of the US for a while and you aren't a CEO or a government worker you might be a traitor.

I get searched sometimes when I go back. I have never taken pirated goods back or anything illegal. I can tell you that Thais do take loads of pirated software into the US and for some reason they always get through. I know one college student who took 50 pirated CDs of computer stuff to friends in the US. But she didn't look like one of the usual suspects.

Personally, I don't have much sympathy for immigration or customs people. It's not easy as far as I know to get a job in customs or with immigration. They continually seem to harrass the innocent and let violators get through. It's all a big joke.

I do feel sorry for the guy who answered that question because who knows maybe they do keep records of you. But you did nothing wrong.

I would like to see more people in immigration and customs fired for their corruption, mistakes, and exploitation of individuals. These jobs are extremely important to the US yet the people who do them really are morons sometimes.

[terdsak_12]

I was in NZ the other week with the missus, our bags were given a thourough going over by the customs blokes, even swabbed the lining of our suitcase looking for you know what!!!!

[Thaiquila]

Its silly to like American customs agents. Like I said, they are not your friend. The goal is to deal with them and get the hel_l outta there!