SURVEY: Will the Thai government be able to reduce corruption significantly?

[brucegoniners]

Corruption is part of the fabric of Thailand.

I am impressed that some of these officials are being arrested.

What I am dismayed by is that the police are only being "reassigned".

The police are a huge part of the problem.

If you want to show the other cops and the ones to come that they can't do these things then "reassigning" them isn't going to do the trick.

They need to be dismissed and the ones who commit serious offenses need to be jailed.

[connda]

NO. It looks as if the General is trying but at the end of the day it wont happen.

Corruption is locked into society here and has been for hundreds of years.

It may get more expensive.

Only way to do it is to have the same sort of punishment they have in China. And even then some will think it worth the risk.

However, the problem with that approach - as it is in China - is: exactly who is getting a bullet to the head? A truly corrupt executive or official - or - a political opponent or a commercial competitor?

My guess is: it depends on who has the most power.

[KarenBravo]

We seem to describe corruption in Thailand as small time. Government officials for permits, courts for reduced fines, police officer for not giving a ticket, customs officers for allowing drugs to come through.... We must remember every country in the world has corruption, and Thailand did not invent it. In the states, would you not recognize Lawmakers that have $20,000 in the bank, and a mortgage, leave office 4 years later, with a net worth of several million dollars. They have not been collecting aluminum cans on weekends. Maybe we need to clean in up in our own countries before we try to change other countries. Mexico could not survive without corruption. Oil companies world-wide could not obtain drilling licenses, Boeing & Airbus could not sell planes, McDonalds could not sell their crap as food. Just my 2 cents worth....

It's not even worth that.

This is a Thai governmental initiative regarding Thailand.

Nothing to do with us at all, or, cleaning up our own countries.

We are being asked to predict how effective the Thai government will be.

The diffirence between "our" countries is that the corrupt know that if they are caught, they will be punished.

Here, it's so normal, it would be like being punished for breathing. The system is set up this way. Corruption here isn't even seen as corruption. It is just the way things get done.

The diffirence between "our" countries is that the corrupt know that if they are caught, they will be punished.

So that's why the West has 'Too Big To Fail" and "Too Big To Jail" policies? Major banks get caught red handed laundering money for the drug cartels and a laundry list of other crimes, get a slap on the wrist by their respective Western governments, and absolutely no executives complicit in the crimes goes to jail. Well, with the exception of Iceland.

Sorry, I have to call BS on your assertion. Western countries have corruption honed to a science, legalized, and institutionalize. Thailand is still in the Stone Age in regard to corruption.

Too big to fail. You're talking about the sub-prime crisis. Where does corruption come into it?

Do you believe that the American car industry should have been allowed to fail with thousands upon thousands of workers out of work (and claiming benefits)?

Now, not only are they back on their feet, the US government actually made a profit on the loans they received.

You mention banks. Banks is not a whole society as is the corruption in Thailand. The two are not comparable.

I'm calling BS on your BS.

[connda]

We seem to describe corruption in Thailand as small time. Government officials for permits, courts for reduced fines, police officer for not giving a ticket, customs officers for allowing drugs to come through.... We must remember every country in the world has corruption, and Thailand did not invent it. In the states, would you not recognize Lawmakers that have $20,000 in the bank, and a mortgage, leave office 4 years later, with a net worth of several million dollars. They have not been collecting aluminum cans on weekends. Maybe we need to clean in up in our own countries before we try to change other countries. Mexico could not survive without corruption. Oil companies world-wide could not obtain drilling licenses, Boeing & Airbus could not sell planes, McDonalds could not sell their crap as food. Just my 2 cents worth....

It's not even worth that.

This is a Thai governmental initiative regarding Thailand.

Nothing to do with us at all, or, cleaning up our own countries.

We are being asked to predict how effective the Thai government will be.

The diffirence between "our" countries is that the corrupt know that if they are caught, they will be punished.

Here, it's so normal, it would be like being punished for breathing. The system is set up this way. Corruption here isn't even seen as corruption. It is just the way things get done.

The diffirence between "our" countries is that the corrupt know that if they are caught, they will be punished.

So that's why the West has 'Too Big To Fail" and "Too Big To Jail" policies? Major banks get caught red handed laundering money for the drug cartels and a laundry list of other crimes, get a slap on the wrist by their respective Western governments, and absolutely no executives complicit in the crimes goes to jail. Well, with the exception of Iceland.

Sorry, I have to call BS on your assertion. Western countries have corruption honed to a science, legalized, and institutionalize. Thailand is still in the Stone Age in regard to corruption.

A caveat to what I just stated above: Just because something is made 'legal' doesn't make it morally right.

Actually, in the West at least, that's the name of the game. Spin immorally as acceptable to the general public (fear is a wonderful way to accomplish that), or obfuscate it so virtually no one outside of the game can understand it, then enact it as legislation at 2am on a weekend on a voice vote of whoever is present in the House or Senate chambers, and voila - you can make just about anything legal. Doesn't mean it's moral or for the good of the general public.

[KarenBravo]

Please name one country in the West that comes even close to the corruption present in Thailand.

[WhoWhenWhyWhat]

Nothing significant, at all! Rising corruption levels will just be temporarily suspended.

Not unlike transferred to an inactive post.

[Assurancetourix]

Please name one country in the West that comes even close to the corruption present in Thailand.

Easy ;

France

and I'm not proud to be french .

[lvr181]

Corruption is in just about every country on earth. Democracy or Dictatorship (or anything in between) allows/tolerates "corruption" to some extent. In some countries, if you get caught then you are penalised, In others a blind eye is turned your way. So, lets not get carried away about the style/form of Government - corruption will remain. How much corruption takes place and by whom is only controlled by those in high places (the major beneficiaries) and the poor will always pay the price.

And what is your interpretation of "corruption" - it can mean different things to different people.

So we can all argue until the end of the earth, "corruption" will remain, unfortunately, regardless of the style of Government.

[kareona]

Most Thai know if there is corruption in their village. They are practical people. If a village headman (phuyaibaan) is a 'good' person, generous, hard-working and able they will not mind too much if he takes 10 percent from public work money especially if he uses part of this money to help villagers in other ways. If the village headman is greedy, takes 30 percent only for his own benefit, is lazy and stupid then the villagers will try to get rid of him. I dont mean to condone this behaviour. In both instances they must be punished.

The roots of corruption are not so much the Thai culture or the Thai mindset. It is old-fashioned greediness (which is a part of all cultures) and a left-over from the time not so long ago when private and public money were not separated. It is part of the old way to run a business or the economy. The secret and unaccountable ways in which the bureaucracy functions is another part of the problem.

To combat corruption punishments only are not enough. What is really needed is total freedom of information and expression in order to be able to follow the trail of money and to publish and critizise. Until that moment nothing will change.

[DrTuner]

They might manage to turn corruption into a form of government, hence reducing it to zero. Worked quite well in the west.

[Stargeezr]

To make a real dent in the corruption in Thailand it will take all of the Government, all of the

military, all of the police forces, all of the companies, as well as all of the Rich people and

all of the rest of the people in Thailand to cooperate and quit being greedy, quit bribing,

quit being dishonest, and quit taking money to elect someone into the government.

Then and only then will Thailand actually become less corrupt and stay that way.

It will never happen!

Sorry!

[spidermike007]

To not even make an effort to fight corruption is about the same as rolling over and playing dead. It would signify the most extreme level of cowardice possible. So, the fight must be waged. Let us hope the big man is sincere is his fight, and let us hope he can bring down some powerful men and women who denigrate this nation with every breath they consume.

[spidermike007]

We seem to describe corruption in Thailand as small time. Government officials for permits, courts for reduced fines, police officer for not giving a ticket, customs officers for allowing drugs to come through.... We must remember every country in the world has corruption, and Thailand did not invent it. In the states, would you not recognize Lawmakers that have $20,000 in the bank, and a mortgage, leave office 4 years later, with a net worth of several million dollars. They have not been collecting aluminum cans on weekends. Maybe we need to clean in up in our own countries before we try to change other countries. Mexico could not survive without corruption. Oil companies world-wide could not obtain drilling licenses, Boeing & Airbus could not sell planes, McDonalds could not sell their crap as food. Just my 2 cents worth....

It's not even worth that.

This is a Thai governmental initiative regarding Thailand.

Nothing to do with us at all, or, cleaning up our own countries.

We are being asked to predict how effective the Thai government will be.

The diffirence between "our" countries is that the corrupt know that if they are caught, they will be punished.

Here, it's so normal, it would be like being punished for breathing. The system is set up this way. Corruption here isn't even seen as corruption. It is just the way things get done.

The diffirence between "our" countries is that the corrupt know that if they are caught, they will be punished.

So that's why the West has 'Too Big To Fail" and "Too Big To Jail" policies? Major banks get caught red handed laundering money for the drug cartels and a laundry list of other crimes, get a slap on the wrist by their respective Western governments, and absolutely no executives complicit in the crimes goes to jail. Well, with the exception of Iceland.

Sorry, I have to call BS on your assertion. Western countries have corruption honed to a science, legalized, and institutionalize. Thailand is still in the Stone Age in regard to corruption.

Too big to fail. You're talking about the sub-prime crisis. Where does corruption come into it?

Do you believe that the American car industry should have been allowed to fail with thousands upon thousands of workers out of work (and claiming benefits)?

Now, not only are they back on their feet, the US government actually made a profit on the loans they received.

You mention banks. Banks is not a whole society as is the corruption in Thailand. The two are not comparable.

I'm calling BS on your BS.

While I agree with a lot of what you had to say, where I disagree is about the banking crisis. That was corruption to the extreme. It is true about not allowing the banks to fail, and it is true that these super corrupt, super greedy, and totally unregulated super freaks are allowed to steal money from the public, at will, without so much as an investigation into their criminal behavior. It is a blight on the face of America. It is a crime being perpetrated at the executive level, both in the banking industry, and in the White House. It is tantamount to public theft. Shame on the industry, and shame on the President for not doing more to protect the people, and for bowing down to the banking lobby, in such a massive and uninhibited fashion.

[KarenBravo]

I suggest you study how and why the sub-prime crisis actually started.

As for bailing out the banks, unfortunately, there was no choice. It was either bail them out or, a world-wide financial melt-down that would have made the Great Depression look like a mild case of the Monday morning blues.

Anyway, criminal it could have been, but, it wasn't corruption. Therefore, it is irrelevant to this thread.

Edited June 10, 2015 by KarenBravo

[aaacorp]

If any official comes by he will ask to rectify this poll to an "adjusted" version

[sirineou]

I love Ferangs in Thailand who complain about corruption yet readily accept all the positive results it provides them.

You are speeding, cop pulls you over, you pay a few hundred bht and are on your way,

Does that make you part of the corrupt system you complain,

would you rather pay 6,000 baht as you would in the west, points on your licence, and more expensive insurance?

Public servants complimenting their income with "tea money" because they are not paid enough.

You complain about the cost of living going up in Thailand,I wonder what better paid public servants would do to your cost of living?

Watch what you wish for you just might get it.

Your comments are relating to 'small beer'. I'm referring to the 7 figure cases that are under investigation by anti-corruption officials. Comparing apples with pears is ridiculous. Furthermore I've never paid tea money since first coming here in the 90's, didn't have any points on my home licence, and haven't complained about the cheap cost of living here either so don't assume and accuse. Engage brain or provide evidence before posting, keyboard warrior!

Do I take it you have been guilty of all of those that you are so quick to accuse someone else of?

Good for you, it must be great being you.

when I grow up, I want to be just like you

Edited June 11, 2015 by sirineou

[umbanda]

Corruption is happening in EVERY country in the world, since very long time, and cannot be eliminated.

In "3 world countries" where salaries, even for professionals, are only suitable for modest living condition, corruption is the way used to increase income, and it is normal between the police force, government employees, etc.

In "rich" countries where salaries are more adequated, and most employees are worry in not risk to get fired, corruption happens most in higher levels and higher proportions, but it is not so evident even affecting a lot more the economy and the life of its population than in 3 world countries.

Or you believe that a senator in a 3rd world country can drive a new luxury MB, and own luxury states with its $ 2500 US/monthly salary???? Or a secretary of state in a rich country can own millions or billions in companies shares, with its generous Government salary?

The only sad part about this, it is that people use to get very upset because a police officer asked for $50 brive, but not very upset knowing that some politicians or executives are getting millions of their tax money with fraud and illegal schemes.

By the way.....Will you accept a chance of better "postion" in life if proposed under a common and normal opportunity???....like taking a job from someone better qualified than you because you do have "connections"??...That is also corruption...

NOBODY and NO COUNTRY is inmune to corruption.

[joshstiles]

sure they will....just like these survey questions will get better....

[yooyoo]

It can be done, just look at what Singapore achieved. However I doubt the will is there as so many officials derive a significant benefit from being corrupt. What Thailand needs is someone like LKY. Love him or hate him LKY achieved zero corruption for those in government and public office.

That is exactly the reason why it wont happen! Thailand is not Singapore.. will never be... dream on!

[BORRISGOODENUF]

"Corruption"! well, it is an endemic way of life in most of S.E Asia, and not just paricular to Thailand. As long as a good working system of checks and balances is not in place and, inadequate transparencies there will remain the ripoffs the stealing and thievery that exist.

In western countries corruption exist at an even higher and larger level, this is with company and governmental checks and balances in place that corruption still finds away around.

All of us must remember that corruption is not one sided, for each corrupted person there is also a corruptor!!

[jesimps]

NO. It looks as if the General is trying but at the end of the day it wont happen.

Corruption is locked into society here and has been for hundreds of years.

It may get more expensive.

At least the General has got a lot of corrupt people in high places running scared and not sleeping at night, their will still be corruption but not as wide scaled as before the coup.

In your dreams boy.

[masuk]

Endemic and systemic.

sounds more like parasitic to me.

[VINCENT2012]

the coruption is build from the top to the ground so, a country who live from corruption since century like russia too for example, it take generation and generation of effort to make change that mentality and the people, even in europe we can see today some big scandals....the human kind is like this,

power and money

[Linzz]

Thailand needs to punish transgressors firmly and openly, regardless of their social position.

Counter intuitive. Only the poorer transgressors are punished, i.e. those who do not have enough money to buy immunity. That is why it's difficult to start from the top so its Catch 22.

Edited June 11, 2015 by Linzz

[Linzz]

I suggest you study how and why the sub-prime crisis actually started.

As for bailing out the banks, unfortunately, there was no choice. It was either bail them out or, a world-wide financial melt-down that would have made the Great Depression look like a mild case of the Monday morning blues.

Anyway, criminal it could have been, but, it wasn't corruption. Therefore, it is irrelevant to this thread.

Mutually exclusive? When is corruption not criminal? Or criminality not corrupt? That's an oxymoron isn't it?

Economy of scale comes into this discussion. Is it corrupt to pay 'tea money' to get a better service and supplement an inadequate income or does this raise expectations rendering poorer service for those who don't tip? Who doesn't want to alter the figures on their tax return to obtain an advantage or take cash which is undeclared? 50 shades of gray.

NZ was last year measured as the least corrupt country in the world. But corruption exists. A year or two ago there were 800 prosecutions for beneficiary fraud of $23m.(approx 60% chance of imprisonment). Tax evasion equaled $1 billion with 50 prosecutions, while it was estimated there was $5 b. undetected.(approx 20% chance of imprisonment). So is there one law for the rich and one for the poor?

So it is with this general topic of corruption in Thailand. Those at the top of the financial tree and positions of power are better equipped to defend their positions because money talks.I have no idea how this very evident culturally ingrained tradition can ever be solved but it truly is the main reason for the wealth divide in poor countries and the main reason why they stay poor.

Edited June 11, 2015 by Linzz

[siam2007]

I think there has never been any other government in the past decades, elected or not, that has made such a huge attempt to get rid of corruption. But in my opinion it is a hopeless case.

Basically, as soon as there is an elected government in place again, be it red (likely) or yellow (unlikely), corruption will skyrocket and be back to normal. To be a politician in this country (and in neighboring countries) actually means to be able to exploit the country legally.