Thai labour rights groups opposed to plans to float minimum wage

[webfact]

Labour rights groups opposed to plans to float minimum wage
PRATCH RUJIVANAROM
THE NATION

BANGKOK: -- LABOUR rights groups are against any move to float the minimum wage, saying the move would be retrogressive and unfavourable for workers.

The latest decision on setting the minimum wage for 2016 was made last Friday by the national wage committee, which approved setting different minimum wages based on each province's economic situation.

Floating the minimum wage was one method considered to increase it.

Wilaiwan Saetia, president of the Thai Labour Solidarity Committee (TLSC), said the new payment-rate policy was not just for labourers as the provincial wage subcommittees have the power to set minimum wages.

"We will have to negotiate for a higher payment because the provinces where the labour rights groups are not strong enough will be disadvantaged by having to accept an insufficient wage," Wilaiwan said.

"Most of the labours don't have the knowledge of the law in order to campaign for a higher payment."

She said the TLSC still wanted a nationwide minimum daily wage of Bt300 with an appropriate increase in accordance with the cost of living, individual job experience and length of employment.

Nakorn Silpa-archa, permanent secretary of the Labour Ministry, said the national wage committee had come out with five possible methods to raise the minimum wage: let the provincial commerce subcommittees set the minimum wage; float the minimum wage; increase the minimum wage according to each province's economic standing; set the payment based the industry type; and mixed methods.

Nakorn said the minimum wage subcommittees would submit the new minimum salary rates for each province for the national wage committee to consider this month, with the matter to be concluded by October.

"The setting of the minimum wage rate should not be bound with political policy because the minimum wage will affect employers, employees and the wider economy of the country," he said.

"The workers also have to develop their ability, skills and experience in order to ask for a raise," he added.

Source: http://www.nationmultimedia.com/national/Labour-rights-groups-opposed-to-plans-to-float-min-30261832.html


-- The Nation 2015-06-08

[quandow]

In theory, this sounds like a reasonable solution, but fairness of the program would depend solely on the ethics of those determining the rates.

And we all know about ethics in LoS.

[Sydebolle]

This populistic programme was to catch all the votes of the underlings and it did. Not only did it affect the THB 200 upto THB 300 but the THB 20'000 wanted more money to ......... without any productivity increase whatsoever.

The programme failed as the low/non-skilled labour as well as the illegal immigrants did not get even the minimum. In more than one case construction companies called in the police to arrest their own illegal immigrants to avoid paying wages while the "alien" companies coped by simply moving labour-intensive work in favour of other neighbouring countries with better money-for-value ratio.

If an ASEAN worker has better output (Indonesia, Vietnamese), if a Phillipina can work from Day One in hospitality due to her education in the trade and speaking English fluently for the same money - well then the writing is on the wall. Khun Thai expects everything to be according to Thainess, the very system which prevented development and kept the elitarian elite in control.

Float salaries; the market will regulate that. Keeping a common-sense set of laws - fair for all parties (including employers!) in place and also IMPLEMENTING it will keep things at bay and might return Thailand back to a possibly more attractive place to invest.

I - for one - would never put a single cent into labour-intensive business which requires even only very basic skills ....... got my fingers nicely and expensively burnt and learnt my lesson.

[clockman]

Thais have had there day, The world has moved on. I personaly think it is because. Bangkok has 4 million chinese population

[Nick167]

Yeap....there might be 63 million thais and 4 million thai chinese in thailand but the problem is that most of these 63 million thais worship the yellow skin thai chinese.....and until the day that they wake up and do something about these migrants who have dominated every industry and including the government and also there are thais that have sold parst of the control to these thai chinese, nothing would happen. But its good to see these days that a lot of the younger thais detests these migrants and whenever they can get a chance for revenge, they do so.

[Praematura]

In theory, this sounds like a reasonable solution, but fairness of the program would depend solely on the ethics of those determining the rates.

And we all know about ethics in LoS.

LoS has ethics. Lol[emoji23]

[ColdSingha]

"The workers also have to develop their ability, skills and experience in order to ask for a raise," he added."

as opposed to keeping your head down, not speaking out and waiting your turn?

nah, that'll never catch on

[DLock]

This populistic programme was to catch all the votes of the underlings and it did. Not only did it affect the THB 200 upto THB 300 but the THB 20'000 wanted more money to ......... without any productivity increase whatsoever.

The programme failed as the low/non-skilled labour as well as the illegal immigrants did not get even the minimum. In more than one case construction companies called in the police to arrest their own illegal immigrants to avoid paying wages while the "alien" companies coped by simply moving labour-intensive work in favour of other neighbouring countries with better money-for-value ratio.

If an ASEAN worker has better output (Indonesia, Vietnamese), if a Phillipina can work from Day One in hospitality due to her education in the trade and speaking English fluently for the same money - well then the writing is on the wall. Khun Thai expects everything to be according to Thainess, the very system which prevented development and kept the elitarian elite in control.

Float salaries; the market will regulate that. Keeping a common-sense set of laws - fair for all parties (including employers!) in place and also IMPLEMENTING it will keep things at bay and might return Thailand back to a possibly more attractive place to invest.

I - for one - would never put a single cent into labour-intensive business which requires even only very basic skills ....... got my fingers nicely and expensively burnt and learnt my lesson.

Good post.

I also suffered the frustration in doing business in Thailand.

I would hire, say, 20 unskilled labor who demanded the minimum wage from Day 1, when they had zero skills and needed a few months training to be worth anything to me. After 3 months about 25% would leave because they now thought they "had skills" and could apply for jobs elsewhere for a few extra 100 baht per month. I lost money.

After 6 months the labor would get a rise based on their progress, skills, value and productivity, some quite significant...some none, because they were basically useless....some got fired.

But anyone who showed some initiative would quickly progress beyond minimum wage. I had to keep giving them more, because the market demanded that if I didn't I'd lose them. I was happy to reward good people, and some moved into supervisors and management and did really well.

But there are always the lazy, unmotivated, continually sick, tired, death in the village people who will always be on minimum wage...and want more for nothing...these are the ones we are talking about.

Good people do not stay minimum wage for long. Market will not allow it. All we are doing is making sure the lowest rung of workers make money they don't deserve.

Move to Vietnam...you will be glad you did.

[Srikcir]

This populistic programme was to catch all the votes of the underlings and it did. Not only did it affect the THB 200 upto THB 300 but the THB 20'000 wanted more money to ......... without any productivity increase whatsoever.

The programme failed as the low/non-skilled labour as well as the illegal immigrants did not get even the minimum. In more than one case construction companies called in the police to arrest their own illegal immigrants to avoid paying wages while the "alien" companies coped by simply moving labour-intensive work in favour of other neighbouring countries with better money-for-value ratio.

If an ASEAN worker has better output (Indonesia, Vietnamese), if a Phillipina can work from Day One in hospitality due to her education in the trade and speaking English fluently for the same money - well then the writing is on the wall. Khun Thai expects everything to be according to Thainess, the very system which prevented development and kept the elitarian elite in control.

Float salaries; the market will regulate that. Keeping a common-sense set of laws - fair for all parties (including employers!) in place and also IMPLEMENTING it will keep things at bay and might return Thailand back to a possibly more attractive place to invest.

I - for one - would never put a single cent into labour-intensive business which requires even only very basic skills ....... got my fingers nicely and expensively burnt and learnt my lesson.

Good post.

I also suffered the frustration in doing business in Thailand.

I would hire, say, 20 unskilled labor who demanded the minimum wage from Day 1, when they had zero skills and needed a few months training to be worth anything to me. After 3 months about 25% would leave because they now thought they "had skills" and could apply for jobs elsewhere for a few extra 100 baht per month. I lost money.

After 6 months the labor would get a rise based on their progress, skills, value and productivity, some quite significant...some none, because they were basically useless....some got fired.

But anyone who showed some initiative would quickly progress beyond minimum wage. I had to keep giving them more, because the market demanded that if I didn't I'd lose them. I was happy to reward good people, and some moved into supervisors and management and did really well.

But there are always the lazy, unmotivated, continually sick, tired, death in the village people who will always be on minimum wage...and want more for nothing...these are the ones we are talking about.

Good people do not stay minimum wage for long. Market will not allow it. All we are doing is making sure the lowest rung of workers make money they don't deserve.

Move to Vietnam...you will be glad you did.

So your message is don't try to save money by hiring unskilled labor as you may suffer an unreliable workforce and economic loss?

And if you hire good skilled labor you can expect to pay for it.

Sounds like Capitalism 101 to me.

[DLock]

This populistic programme was to catch all the votes of the underlings and it did. Not only did it affect the THB 200 upto THB 300 but the THB 20'000 wanted more money to ......... without any productivity increase whatsoever.

The programme failed as the low/non-skilled labour as well as the illegal immigrants did not get even the minimum. In more than one case construction companies called in the police to arrest their own illegal immigrants to avoid paying wages while the "alien" companies coped by simply moving labour-intensive work in favour of other neighbouring countries with better money-for-value ratio.

If an ASEAN worker has better output (Indonesia, Vietnamese), if a Phillipina can work from Day One in hospitality due to her education in the trade and speaking English fluently for the same money - well then the writing is on the wall. Khun Thai expects everything to be according to Thainess, the very system which prevented development and kept the elitarian elite in control.

Float salaries; the market will regulate that. Keeping a common-sense set of laws - fair for all parties (including employers!) in place and also IMPLEMENTING it will keep things at bay and might return Thailand back to a possibly more attractive place to invest.

I - for one - would never put a single cent into labour-intensive business which requires even only very basic skills ....... got my fingers nicely and expensively burnt and learnt my lesson.

Good post.

I also suffered the frustration in doing business in Thailand.

I would hire, say, 20 unskilled labor who demanded the minimum wage from Day 1, when they had zero skills and needed a few months training to be worth anything to me. After 3 months about 25% would leave because they now thought they "had skills" and could apply for jobs elsewhere for a few extra 100 baht per month. I lost money.

After 6 months the labor would get a rise based on their progress, skills, value and productivity, some quite significant...some none, because they were basically useless....some got fired.

But anyone who showed some initiative would quickly progress beyond minimum wage. I had to keep giving them more, because the market demanded that if I didn't I'd lose them. I was happy to reward good people, and some moved into supervisors and management and did really well.

But there are always the lazy, unmotivated, continually sick, tired, death in the village people who will always be on minimum wage...and want more for nothing...these are the ones we are talking about.

Good people do not stay minimum wage for long. Market will not allow it. All we are doing is making sure the lowest rung of workers make money they don't deserve.

Move to Vietnam...you will be glad you did.

So your message is don't try to save money by hiring unskilled labor as you may suffer an unreliable workforce and economic loss?

And if you hire good skilled labor you can expect to pay for it.

Sounds like Capitalism 101 to me.

No.

That setting a minimum wage helps the terminally hopeless of the workforce only...they will always be a minimum wage earner, so they scream the loudest...

The free market works. Good people progress. I pay what I needed to for good people...the minimum wage was irrelevant.

Wasn't trying to save money. Was trying to find staff and paid what market demanded to retain them...and that is much higher than minimum.

Try to keep up.

[h90]

It would be good to increase the minimum wage at places that do well, Bangkok, Phuket, etc. That minimum wage should be also valid for immigrant worker.

Decrease it for Nakhon Nowhere areas to get some businesses take opportunity and move production there.

It was before like that and it worked to some degree.

And do the changes in small steps, adjust say 270 in the lowest area and 330 in the fattest one for a beginning, wait 6 month and readjust, don't do huge steps.

[Praematura]

Free market doesn't work to protect low skill laborers. Give me a break. That's why we need a minimum wage to protect those who can't protect themselves from greedy corporations. Unless your definition of success is 80 people owning half of the worlds wealth?

http://fivethirtyeight.com/datalab/meet-the-80-people-who-are-as-rich-as-half-the-world/

Now in terms of Thailand, I agree what some of you have said as the standard Thai business has 15 people standing around with a blank stare and one person arguably working. So in that light a minimum wage doesn't make sense but that phenomenon seems limited to Thailand as I've not seen that anywhere else. Nor have I seen a place with so many holidays, it's ridiculous.

[Godders]

Yeap....there might be 63 million thais and 4 million thai chinese in thailand but the problem is that most of these 63 million thais worship the yellow skin thai chinese.....and until the day that they wake up and do something about these migrants who have dominated every industry and including the government and also there are thais that have sold parst of the control to these thai chinese, nothing would happen. But its good to see these days that a lot of the younger thais detests these migrants and whenever they can get a chance for revenge, they do so.

This is racist rubbish of the kind employed by the Nazis in Hitler's Germany to demonise the minority Jewish population, The exhortation for young Thais to take "revenge" on "Thai Chinese" is a clear incitement to racial hatred which could land not only the poster but also Thai Visa's owners ' in court.

Chinese people do not, as the poster sneeringly insinuates, have yellow skin. If anyone is yellow it is knuckle-dragging bigots who hide behind an anonymous avatar in order to spread their warped and repulsive racist views.

[webfact]

Labour organisation protests floating minimum wage



BANGKOK: -- Thai Labour Solidarity Committee (TLSC) today voiced disagreement to the National Wage Committee's plan to float national minimum wage, reasoning this would merely restore the old wage fixing system that employees have no say in setting minimum wage.

TSLC president Wilaiwan sae Tia said TSLC would formally file a petition to the minster of labour Tuesday opposing the floating idea.

But she said TSLC agreed to retain the 300-baht minimum wage and to set the wage that varies to economy and cost of living of each province, and also the worker’s skill.

She said although the permanent secretary of labour affirmed that there would be no change in the 300-baht minimum wage in coming up with the floating proposal, but giving power to provincial-level wage committee minimum to set minimum wage in each province would obstruct the right of workers to negotiate.

But Federation of Thai industries vice president Wanlop Watanakorn agreed to float the minimum wage as this could encourage competition in the labour market to recruit skillful labour.

He said prices of consumers products were not raised during the past several months due to economic slowdown and inflation although workers have earlier demanded 360-baht minimum wage.

If the wage has been raised as workers had demanded, business operators could not absorb the cost burden.

The nation wage committee will review the minimum wage in October with proposal from a meeting last week to restore the wage that will vary to cost of living in each region, economy, and also skills of workers. But the meeting agreed that the 300-baht minimum wage won’t be adjusted down.

Source: http://englishnews.thaipbs.or.th/labour-organisation-protests-floating-minimum-wage


-- Thai PBS 2015-06-08