'Crackdown has curbed graft'

[billd766]

They are attempting to create anti-coruption awareness. Thais are well aware of corruption and the government's shallow efforts to curb it. Thais are generally not interested in anti-corruption. They like things just the way they are. This can easily be illustrated by the number of Thai big men busts, convictions and jail sentences in Thailan. Non-existent.

Didn't the PTP under Yingluck swear to halt corruption under one of their election promises?

How did they get on?

AFAIR they talked the talked very well but forgot to walk the walk.

At least THIS government is doing something which is far more than any "elected" government of the past 20 years ever did.

Not only did the PTP do nothing about corruption in their 3 years of power but they always asked for more time. This government has only had just over a year.

As for governments liking things as they were I am sure that the TRT, PPP and PTP would just love to be back in power with their snouts in the trough.

[billd766]

They are attempting to create anti-coruption awareness. Thais are well aware of corruption and the government's shallow efforts to curb it. Thais are generally not interested in anti-corruption. They like things just the way they are. This can easily be illustrated by the number of Thai big men busts, convictions and jail sentences in Thailan. Non-existent.

Not true about busting the the high level government employees. However, to complete the whole job of bringing them to account takes more than 5 minutes. There are many cases that are currently being processed by the anti-corruption departments.

Part of the problem is that what you have posted is common sense.

Many people here understand that things take time but for the anti-government people on TVF that means nothing.

Should however you suggest something anti Thaksin they will be upon you like a pack of rabid wolves, as indeed they will be after me when I post this.

[billd766]

I am still trying to figure out how a certain general could amass $18,000,000 in assests without himself being corrupt.

I am still trying to figure out how a failed businessman/police Lt Col/ex PM/criminal fugitive can amass billions of USD legally without being corrupt himself.

[smedly]

He said it would take some time to ensure that action taken against the wrongdoers was fair and transparent,

hmmm, I don't see anything that resembles transparency in this process...

well at least you have admitted one thing in your post - there actually is a process which was absolutely non existent for any previous elected government

I have yet to find any example of a criminal gang that carried out a theft - investigated themselves - arrested themselves - found themselves guilty - and locked themselves up I think you know who I am referring too

Edited June 9, 2015 by smedly

[Baerboxer]

The govt. should get international companies on their tender lists.......the only way to put a stop to bidding collusion within Thailand.......never happen of course!

You mean like all those international companies who've been pulled up for bribery.

The excuse "we have to or miss out, it's local custom" etc etc. Ask Siemens for one.

The UK and US beefed up their anti-bribery laws in 2010/1. Why - because they still have significant issues coming to light at home, regardless of overseas. Same in other EU countries.

The ADB reckon 30% of their funding disappears in corruption. Then we have unfit companies receiving contracts based on nepotism and family connections.

The West is rife with corruption but tries hard to do something about it. Asia pays lip service. But the same corruption is there.

Professional procurement practices, open, accountable, fully transparent public procurement practices would be a good start. Thailand has a good professional body affiliated to international bodies through federations. Mention corruption to them and they go very quiet. They'd like to do something but no one want to put their head above the parapet.

I was offered a bribe very blatantly once by a company in Taiwan. The guy told me it was normal practice to build a "commission" in his prices for buyers from a blue chip US household name. Korean companies were more discreet but nevertheless made it clear any arrangement was possible. So no, bringing in some international companies won't in itself stop the bribery.

[Baerboxer]

I am still trying to figure out how a certain general could amass $18,000,000 in assests without himself being corrupt.

I am still trying to figure out how a failed businessman/police Lt Col/ex PM/criminal fugitive can amass billions of USD legally without being corrupt himself.

Please Mr. Bild.

Through honest hard work and skill, working tirelessly to beat the competition and taking a lead on business ethics and governance.

How else?

ps - Did you miss the CNN interview? He said he's never ever done anything wrong. Just like his sister. He wouldn't lie to CNN would he?

[Baerboxer]

They are attempting to create anti-coruption awareness. Thais are well aware of corruption and the government's shallow efforts to curb it. Thais are generally not interested in anti-corruption. They like things just the way they are. This can easily be illustrated by the number of Thai big men busts, convictions and jail sentences in Thailan. Non-existent.

Didn't the PTP under Yingluck swear to halt corruption under one of their election promises?

How did they get on?

AFAIR they talked the talked very well but forgot to walk the walk.

At least THIS government is doing something which is far more than any "elected" government of the past 20 years ever did.

Not only did the PTP do nothing about corruption in their 3 years of power but they always asked for more time. This government has only had just over a year.

As for governments liking things as they were I am sure that the TRT, PPP and PTP would just love to be back in power with their snouts in the trough.

Yes. Yingluck appeared on a nice photo op with a stop corruption sign, some minions and played her 'pretty" role excellently.

It must have been successful because she said on several occasions that there was no corruption in her government. (Technically it was her brother's government so she wasn't really lying and she had her fingers crossed behind her back).

Yingluck and PTP always said anything they thought people would like to hear, regardless of reality.

As for corruption - just see how many cases the current government are checking in 1 year compared to the 3 years under PTP. See, much more corruption under the current government - PTP could never find any

[billd766]

I am still trying to figure out how a certain general could amass $18,000,000 in assests without himself being corrupt.

I am still trying to figure out how a failed businessman/police Lt Col/ex PM/criminal fugitive can amass billions of USD legally without being corrupt himself.

Please Mr. Bild.

Through honest hard work and skill, working tirelessly to beat the competition and taking a lead on business ethics and governance.

How else?

ps - Did you miss the CNN interview? He said he's never ever done anything wrong. Just like his sister. He wouldn't lie to CNN would he?

How about marrying a VIP police generals daughter, holding a monopoly and cheating a business partner for starters.

[Thai at Heart]

They are attempting to create anti-coruption awareness. Thais are well aware of corruption and the government's shallow efforts to curb it. Thais are generally not interested in anti-corruption. They like things just the way they are. This can easily be illustrated by the number of Thai big men busts, convictions and jail sentences in Thailan. Non-existent.

it seems the only time heavy hitters are caught is when there is a non elected government in the driving seat, there have been several high profile cases these last few months along with an alleged 252 high ranking civil servants, my guess is there are a lot of people (deleted) themselves right now, I have also noticed a few that have taken early retirement ........

Little direct correlation between army govts and corruption I fear. Just look at how many times Don Meaung has closed and opened in the last 10 years. You think the army carries out coups for free? They are the best army money can buy.....

Edited June 9, 2015 by Thai at Heart

[Emster23]

"It is a complete fallacy that the general Thai population like corruption, only the corrupt like corruption the vast majority have in the past put up with it because there is nothing they could do about it. It has been for many years a part of life they have been forced to accept to their detriment."

I seem to recall a survey from year or so ago about corruption, and fair majority of Thai population were for it, if they got a slice of the pie. Anyone else know details of that one? Corruption seems to be integral part of "Thainess", like it or not.

[ldiablo]

@Billd766. Thaksin was and indeed is corrupt,there is no denying that. That is not what my statement is asking, but leave it to someone as narrow minded as yourself to bring another corrupt individual into the mix to try and deflect away from another corrupt person in regards to the question being asked. Also, Thaksin never tried to crackdown on corruption as your new god is claiming to be doing and yet you have still failed to answer my question. It's people like you who will continue to have Thaksin I thw spotlight because you just can't move on amd forget about him. In 20 years you will still be talking about that moron with all your old bar buddies. Get a life man.

Edited June 9, 2015 by ldiablo

[HappyinNE]

Prayut said corrupt practices happen in many forms and hurt the country drastically - so the public must have the courage to report such activities to authorities like the Damrongtham Centre if they do not trust police or soldiers.

How does one contact this place and what sort of place is it ?

Anyone know ?

After a quick Google

This is the answer to the same question posed on a Phuket web site :

Praphan Khanprasang of Phuket Damrongtham Center replies:

Complaints about government officials can be made at municipal Damrongtham centers (Ombudsman’s offices). There is one centre for every municipality so just find the one nearest to you.

You can lodge complaints in person or by having the complaint passed through government offices.

Letters of complaint can be posted by mail or you can make contact via the Damrongtham website (http://123.242.171.10/Damrongtham/w_index.php), or by calling your local Damrongtham centre.

Complaints lodged at the centre are then passed on to the Governor, who decides whether the issue warrants further investigation.

As well as handling complaints, Damrongtham offices also accept tip-offs, complaints about land issues and requests for help.

We prioritize urgent matters and try to take action on all issues within 15 days but that time frame also depends on the complexity of the issue.

Results of investigations are then returned to the governor so a conclusion or further investigations can be authorized.

Foreigners are welcome to report issues to Damrongtham centers and we are working on making English-language services available in the near future. However, for the time being, it’s best to have any complaint letters that are written in a foreign language translated to Thai.

If you lodge a complaint we will require a copy of your passport and your address in Thailand in case we have more questions or need to give you updates on the investigation process.

Small issues can usually be resolved directly by the local municipality but we should be contacted directly concerning larger issues.

The main Phuket Damrongtham office is located at Phuket Provincial Hall, on the first floor, and is open 8:30am – 4:00pm.

- See more at: http://www.thephuketnews.com/how-to-complain-in-english-49870.php#sthash.hKIPe3ZQ.dpuf

Thanks for this post.

However, I would be scepticle to pass my home address and PP information, should I wish to make a complaint.

This is the reason that Thai's do not make complaints!

[billd766]

@Billd766. Thaksin was and indeed is corrupt,there is no denying that. That is not what my statement is asking, but leave it to someone as narrow minded as yourself to bring another corrupt individual into the mix to try and deflect away from another corrupt person in regards to the question being asked. Also, Thaksin never tried to crackdown on corruption as your new god is claiming to be doing and yet you have still failed to answer my question. It's people like you who will continue to have Thaksin I thw spotlight because you just can't move on amd forget about him. In 20 years you will still be talking about that moron with all your old bar buddies. Get a life man.

quote

ldiablo, on 09 Jun 2015 - 11:48, said:

I am still trying to figure out how a certain general could amass $18,000,000 in assests without himself being corrupt.

I am still trying to figure out how a failed businessman/police Lt Col/ex PM/criminal fugitive can amass billions of USD legally without being corrupt himself.

Now what is the difference with the words that you wrote and the words that I wrote?

Did I mention any names or try to deflect the post in anyway?

If you think that I am narrow minded for answering the question that you asked generally then what does that make you for asking a similar question?

There is NO difference so if I am wrong then so are you unless you are claiming double standards as usual.

What you don't seem to understand is that whatever you or I or any other foreigner in Thailand thinks, says or does makes no difference to the Thai people at all. They won't listen and don't care about us.

FYI I don't have any bar buddies as I live in rural Thailand with my family. You would have been right about 10 to 15 years ago but not now.

I have a great life living with my Thai family and Thai friends far away from most people like you I am glad to say.

Edited June 9, 2015 by billd766

[phoenixdoglover]

Banks don't prevent bank robberies by attempting to catch thieves after the robbery, they have security systems in place to make robbing the bank difficult and dangerous.

Honest governments don't prevent corruption by attempting to catch and prosecute corrupt officials after the fact, they have rules requiring transparency that make corrupt practices difficult and risky.

Unfortunately for Thailand, neither the military nor any political party wants transparency--not only do they not know how to govern in a transparent system, it would cost them their fortunes.

One of the more insightful comments I have seen on this subject.

Now back to the Red/Yellow argument!

[Nobb]

How can they curb graft when they can not even control the Thai lottery. Like putting lipstick on a pig!

[Gunna]

How can they curb graft when they can not even control the Thai lottery. Like putting lipstick on a pig!

It should become better now that these people have been removed from the distribution system

THE FIVE TIGERS

Large amounts of lottery tickets are held by the so-called five tigers who have been identified as Salak Mahalarp, Diamond Lotto, Yardnampeth, Pluemwatthana and BB Merchant.

These operators, who have been granted lottery ticket quotas by the GLO for a long time, reportedly buy lottery tickets from other distributors including government agencies and charity organisations which also receive a ticket quota allotment and resell them to smaller distributors who ultimately sell them to street vendors.

Smaller distributors and organisations allegedly do not want to take the risk of failing to sell their lottery tickets so they agree to sell them to the five tigers instead.

Such actions inflate lottery ticket prices at each selling stage.

[phoenixdoglover]

How can they curb graft when they can not even control the Thai lottery. Like putting lipstick on a pig!

It should become better now that these people have been removed from the distribution system

THE FIVE TIGERS

Large amounts of lottery tickets are held by the so-called five tigers who have been identified as Salak Mahalarp, Diamond Lotto, Yardnampeth, Pluemwatthana and BB Merchant.

These operators, who have been granted lottery ticket quotas by the GLO for a long time, reportedly buy lottery tickets from other distributors including government agencies and charity organisations which also receive a ticket quota allotment and resell them to smaller distributors who ultimately sell them to street vendors.

Smaller distributors and organisations allegedly do not want to take the risk of failing to sell their lottery tickets so they agree to sell them to the five tigers instead.

Such actions inflate lottery ticket prices at each selling stage.

Evidently, many of the "government agencies and charities" were just interested in the quick pass-through sales, while the Five Tigers did the real work of distribution. In my view, they served a purpose in the market for lottery tickets. They existed because the GLO was incompetent at distribution. Probably still are incompetent.

Edited June 9, 2015 by phoenixdoglover

[Robby nz]

They are attempting to create anti-coruption awareness. Thais are well aware of corruption and the government's shallow efforts to curb it. Thais are generally not interested in anti-corruption. They like things just the way they are. This can easily be illustrated by the number of Thai big men busts, convictions and jail sentences in Thailan. Non-existent.

Oh and you seem to have forgotten about this gent the former head of the police CSD General Pongpat Chayapan whose jail time is now up to 31 years. http://www.nationmultimedia.com/national/Ex-crimebuster-has-more-assets-seized-30258636.html.

With many more arrests, dismissals and investigations underway into the conduct of high ranking officers and civil servants.

You do realise why Pongpat was investigated don't you, c'mon Robby you can't be that blind.

Have you not seen the scale of corruption that man has accomplished ? You are the blind one if you would not accept that he has been corrupt beyond any normal scale.

You go on in your next post to rant about red and yellow while in this one intimating that he has only been investigated because of political connections. And you somehow prefer believe that he should not have been investigated because of those connections.

Blinded by red.

Anyway I posted in answer to the "Non existent" of the previous poster and your post has confirmed that I was right.

Edited June 9, 2015 by Robby nz

[mikemac]

Banks don't prevent bank robberies by attempting to catch thieves after the robbery, they have security systems in place to make robbing the bank difficult and dangerous.

Honest governments don't prevent corruption by attempting to catch and prosecute corrupt officials after the fact, they have rules requiring transparency that make corrupt practices difficult and risky.

Unfortunately for Thailand, neither the military nor any political party wants transparency--not only do they not know how to govern in a transparent system, it would cost them their fortunes.

..............."nor any political party wants transparency"......................

At last we agree on something. I knew it would happen one day.

Actually if the governments of the day, around the world, suddenly became transparent, it would be very scary indeed.

[Banzai99]

They are attempting to create anti-coruption awareness. Thais are well aware of corruption and the government's shallow efforts to curb it. Thais are generally not interested in anti-corruption. They like things just the way they are. This can easily be illustrated by the number of Thai big men busts, convictions and jail sentences in Thailan. Non-existent.

Oh and you seem to have forgotten about this gent the former head of the police CSD General Pongpat Chayapan whose jail time is now up to 31 years. http://www.nationmultimedia.com/national/Ex-crimebuster-has-more-assets-seized-30258636.html.

With many more arrests, dismissals and investigations underway into the conduct of high ranking officers and civil servants.

You do realise why Pongpat was investigated don't you, c'mon Robby you can't be that blind.

Have you not seen the scale of corruption that man has accomplished ?

Are you talking about the massive wealth he has accumulated on a Soldiers pay, or the wealth of his Brother also on a Soldiers pay, what are you saying Robby, are you saying he has been corrupt on a massive scale, like all the incredibly wealthy Generals and Polkice Chiefs in developing countries, I would agree with you.?

And once again, if you don't know why Pongpat was targetted, you don't know much about the Thai power politics machine, tell me, have you ever been to Thailand ?

[lvr181]

Sometimes, we also found that the highest and second highest bids had addresses in the same building [so they were actually the same persons or business groups]," he said.

Now that is rich. This should result in immediate disqualification of the bidders.

Sounds like a good idea but who would complete the "business"?

I guess "farang" could do it but they were not invited? TITS.

In fifty years Singapore built a thriving economy but 100s of years of Thailand and they still have very little! Sad really

[masquerade]

They are attempting to create anti-coruption awareness. Thais are well aware of corruption and the government's shallow efforts to curb it. Thais are generally not interested in anti-corruption. They like things just the way they are. This can easily be illustrated by the number of Thai big men busts, convictions and jail sentences in Thailan. Non-existent.

Didn't the PTP under Yingluck swear to halt corruption under one of their election promises?

How did they get on?

AFAIR they talked the talked very well but forgot to walk the walk.

At least THIS government is doing something which is far more than any "elected" government of the past 20 years ever did.

Not only did the PTP do nothing about corruption in their 3 years of power but they always asked for more time. This government has only had just over a year.

As for governments liking things as they were I am sure that the TRT, PPP and PTP would just love to be back in power with their snouts in the trough.

Then enlighten us all, what have they done? The way I see it, is they are doing a lot of theatre but delivering naught. As previous member posted, they are protecting their own sorry asses, culling their opposition and protecting the elite. What are the rest of the people getting out of it? Sweet FA, that's what.

[mikemac]

You do realise why Pongpat was investigated don't you, c'mon Robby you can't be that blind.

Have you not seen the scale of corruption that man has accomplished ?

Are you talking about the massive wealth he has accumulated on a Soldiers pay, or the wealth of his Brother also on a Soldiers pay, what are you saying Robby, are you saying he has been corrupt on a massive scale, like all the incredibly wealthy Generals and Polkice Chiefs in developing countries, I would agree with you.?

And once again, if you don't know why Pongpat was targetted, you don't know much about the Thai power politics machine, tell me, have you ever been to Thailand ?

Well come on, don't keep us on the edge of our chairs all night ! Why was he targeted ???

[BigBadGeordie]

You do realise why Pongpat was investigated don't you, c'mon Robby you can't be that blind.

Have you not seen the scale of corruption that man has accomplished ?

Are you talking about the massive wealth he has accumulated on a Soldiers pay, or the wealth of his Brother also on a Soldiers pay, what are you saying Robby, are you saying he has been corrupt on a massive scale, like all the incredibly wealthy Generals and Polkice Chiefs in developing countries, I would agree with you.?

And once again, if you don't know why Pongpat was targetted, you don't know much about the Thai power politics machine, tell me, have you ever been to Thailand ?

Well come on, don't keep us on the edge of our chairs all night ! Why was he targeted ???

I don't think you will get an answer to that as I would assume he does not want to get banned or arrested!!!!

[Banzai99]

[seajae]

You do realise why Pongpat was investigated don't you, c'mon Robby you can't be that blind.

Have you not seen the scale of corruption that man has accomplished ?

Are you talking about the massive wealth he has accumulated on a Soldiers pay, or the wealth of his Brother also on a Soldiers pay, what are you saying Robby, are you saying he has been corrupt on a massive scale, like all the incredibly wealthy Generals and Polkice Chiefs in developing countries, I would agree with you.?

And once again, if you don't know why Pongpat was targetted, you don't know much about the Thai power politics machine, tell me, have you ever been to Thailand ?

Well come on, don't keep us on the edge of our chairs all night ! Why was he targeted ???

dont worry the big b is working on that one, I am sure he will come back with his usual garbage answer and blame it on the general, he always likes to make statements then run away or ignore everyone so he can re read the red handbook for spreading crap, some people are naturally pathetic

Edited June 9, 2015 by seajae

[Banzai99]

Another one who understands nothing.

I tell you what, do some research into it, it cannot be discussed here, but you do some research, and tell your findings to all of us pathetic people, then get an immediate ban, bye.

Edited June 9, 2015 by Banzai99

[musiclover]

You do realise why Pongpat was investigated don't you, c'mon Robby you can't be that blind.

Have you not seen the scale of corruption that man has accomplished ?

Are you talking about the massive wealth he has accumulated on a Soldiers pay, or the wealth of his Brother also on a Soldiers pay, what are you saying Robby, are you saying he has been corrupt on a massive scale, like all the incredibly wealthy Generals and Polkice Chiefs in developing countries, I would agree with you.?

And once again, if you don't know why Pongpat was targetted, you don't know much about the Thai power politics machine, tell me, have you ever been to Thailand ?

Well come on, don't keep us on the edge of our chairs all night ! Why was he targeted ???

dont worry the big b is working on that one, I am sure he will come back with his usual garbage answer and blame it on the general, he always likes to make statements then run away or ignore everyone so he can re read the red handbook for spreading crap, some people are naturally pathetic

Amazing ignorance from the Frangipani man ! Unbelievable!!!!

[heybruce]

Enough about the past elected government, let's get to the present problem--the military and the junta are corrupt. They are not going to clean up government, they're just going to re-direct the payments.

It's been obvious since shortly after the coup that the junta's interest in corruption was selective http://thediplomat.com/2014/10/thai-junta-beset-by-corruption-scandals/. The trafficking scandal makes it clear that the corruption has been long running http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/830349-human-trafficking-crackdown-thai-army-officer-faces-13-charges/?p=9482741&hl=%2Bmanas.

However the corruption has long been entrenched in the military, it's fair to say it has become institutionalized. Competence in corruption has become a critical career skill and necessary for advancement:

"...Prayuth soon became a prominent member of the Eastern Tigers, a royalist military faction based in eastern Thailand. In the 1990s, Chambers said, the Eastern Tigers amassed considerable wealth by trading gems with Cambodian Khmer Rouge insurgents based along the two countries’ border, a racket which “directly benefited” the faction and some of its commanders. Within a decade, the Eastern Tigers dominated the Thai military."

The above is from a respected journal, you can find the source by doing an internet search on "Foreign Policy", "Prayuth" and "Eastern Tigers". The article is about Prayuth, but the title makes the moderators nervous so I can't provide a link.

Corruption is at least as entrenched in the military as in the government, however the military can see to it that it is never investigated. Expecting the military to eliminate corruption is like expecting Al Capone to eliminate bootlegging in prohibition era Chicago.

[heybruce]

Banks don't prevent bank robberies by attempting to catch thieves after the robbery, they have security systems in place to make robbing the bank difficult and dangerous.

Honest governments don't prevent corruption by attempting to catch and prosecute corrupt officials after the fact, they have rules requiring transparency that make corrupt practices difficult and risky.

Unfortunately for Thailand, neither the military nor any political party wants transparency--not only do they not know how to govern in a transparent system, it would cost them their fortunes.

..............."nor any political party wants transparency"......................

At last we agree on something. I knew it would happen one day.

Actually if the governments of the day, around the world, suddenly became transparent, it would be very scary indeed.

Comparatively clean governments have laws mandating transparency. There are always people who will try to get around these laws, which is why there also must be routine audits and checks to catch these people. No government ever achieves zero corruption, but the governments with transparency requirements and mechanisms to enforce them keep corruption at a low level.

Only an elected government will force transparency on itself. It won't happen quickly, but so long as there are regular, monitored elections the politicians must respond to the demands of the people, and the people are sick of the drain on their finances and the economy that corruption causes. Also, only a military firmly under civilian control will allow an elected government to force transparency on it. So long as the military does not serve the elected government there is no hope of cleaning up the military.

A corrupt junta has no need to accommodate the people, which is why people who think the junta will eliminate corruption are dreaming.