Yingluck misses date with NACC, claims 'urgent business'

[mikemac]

He already had the money and could have still had the power to this day if only he had been honest.

He had the potential to be a great PM but had to stuff it up for himself and the country with greed.

It was to late that he found out that it was the power that he craved over the money, by that time he had run from justice, so had to reach into his bag of dirty tricks in an attempt to get back free of all impediments.

Unfortunately for him and the country it hasn't worked and he has now left his sister in the mess she is in with multiple charges brought about by his direction (caddy).

He apparently sees no shame or accepts any responsibility for this.

And now the new administration are going to change everything, no more cronyism, no more corruption, no more people who align with the right people getting away with anything they want, no more members of rich and powerful families getting drunk, coked up, killing policemen then being allowed out of the country, of course, all this will change,

The Generals and all the other Generals and Police Chiefs extraordinary wealth will be investigated and scritinised, also his brothers, and all the super rich Politicos that are now on the right side, they will be investigated too.

Yeah right........

For intelligent people, I have to say, your ignorance astounds me.

Typical retort from a red propaganda spreader.

Robby points out some of Thaksin's "pitfalls" and your reply is a babbling brook of bs regarding generals and policemen, corruption, cronyism and super rich Politicos ?

Your type has no defence for the actions of the Shinawatras, so you find what you think is an easy mark to pick on.

You forgot "But, but Suthep!"................

No wonder some people (many) think there are posters on this site who are posting for the wrong reasons. Many of the anti-junta comments seem to come out of the same "book".

[mikemac]

Another who makes it up as they go along.

Vicha is not the head of the NACC, the NACC Secretary-General is Sansern Poljieak and the Chairman is Mr Parnthep Klanarongran. http://englishnews.thaipbs.or.th/nacc-head-says-feel-pressure

Vicha heads this particular enquiry.

Your extremely bias link to the NY Times proves nothing except perhaps that Khun Vicha has long term experience of the goings on within the PT party.

The NACC has been the target of the PT red lynch mob so the staff there know very well what they are capable of : http://www.nationmultimedia.com/breakingnews/Red-shirts-surround-NACC-head-office-30227869.html

http://www.nationmultimedia.com/home/NACC-head-office-hit-by-bomb-attack-30125197.html

so I will apologize for making an inaccurate statement. Vicha is not head of the NACC. He is a commissioner and head of the committees investigating the rice program among other investigations.

So tell me, what difference does that make?

There ARE however other details which do shed light on his actions and bias, ... He was not only one of the drafters of the last military constitution, he was then appointed to the NACC as well by the 2006 military junta. Being a "military minion" could be a reason the last-elected-government tried to boot him from the NACC. You might recall that the last-elected-government and the military had a tense relationship.

In my opinion, Vicha makes a very reliable attack dog for the current group controlling Thailand.

Now, when it comes to biased links, you really want to call the NYT and Thomas Fuller biased? Well call them that if you want, I believe in Free Speech... On the other hand, I will also put you in the same clown car as the folks here always accusing the AFP of being biased.

Any keyboard moron can find find links to sites that back up his claims, support his argument. Does not mean shit, the internet is full of sites supporting both sides of any argument.

Anyone who quotes from sites that are as one-sided and biased as The NYT and AFP is not winning any argument, any desperate clown can do that.

Sooner or later, like fab4 did, they get more and more fanatical and start linking to sites that contain banned "substance", like Asian Correspondent, then they are banned and reappear as yet another red flag waver.

And then it starts again, new name and avatar, same old shit published.

You call it free speech. I call it linking to crap sites to defend an already lost argument.

Anyone who defends the Shins, the PTP, or the Reds is on a losing horse.

[TPI]

This attack on previous Govt. policy and personages by the anti-democrats, along with retroactive impeachment nonsense, seems to garner some support from those originating in countries with solid Democracy traditions.......continues to baffle me.

It totally ignores the Democratic principle of submitting all these so-called sins generated by the previous Parliamentary opposition to the electorate...Turf the bums if all of this has substance.

Taking Opposition mantra's as gospel, and suggesting they are truths that ought to be adopted by the country at large is being sufficient to demonize an elected Govt. to the point of deposing them by means other than an election, is anti-democratic mantra's at the extreme.

Can you imagine taking Canadian, Australian, UK, etc. Parliamentary opposition stuff as being the final arbiter of any elected Govt's legitimacy.

But for some, they think it is OK for Thailand...A double standard if I ever saw one. They espouse the Thai minority Opposition stuff as legitimizing non-electoral measures.

It gets back to my point, that the color differentiation of the political divide in Thailand is not valid anymore....Now it is simply anti-Democrat vs. Democracy.......All political commentary can be slotted into one of those two catagories.

IMHO

Before you start equating the last "democratic government" here to western democracies, ask yourself in how many of those MPs are allowed to accept regular and substantial payments to vote to the order of a fugitive criminal, how many allow the same criminal access to cabinet meetings and to dictate policy, and how many will propose legislation with blatant conflicts of interest without a single recusal.

Then you might consider what the check and balance regulatory bodies in those western democracies would do should such a situation develop. If your answer is wait for the next election, you are deluding yourself, or worse.

Hear hear!

[Banzai99]

There are thing that are going to happen in Thailand that are beyond the man in streets vote or opinion, in fact, no opinion is allowed, by law.

Any guess why The General who said there would be no coup and elections would be held swiftly is now saying 2 more years and the Polls show the Thai people support him, of course you are unable to answer this, it's against the law, what a convenient law.

We're Farangs and can leave when we want, I feel sorry for the Thai people who have no choice.

He said no coup??

"Thai army chief urged calm, doesn't rule out coup"

http://news.yahoo.com/thai-army-chief-urges-calm-doesn-39-t-091747388.html

Soon there will be a referendum (that's what they have been saying) on whether or not Prayuth should stay in power for a few years longer. I bet the majority wants him to stay.

There wouldn't dare be a referendum saying they want him out, can't you understand why the Military government is needed in this period of Thai history ?

I find it unbelievable that you think all this has happened for the happiness of the Thai people, it's got naff all to do with happiness of anyone except the very very rich and powerful, who want to remain rich and powerful, Ptayuth makes one mistake after the transition, they'll be after him and his family like a pack of hounds.

[mikemac]

I accept that this is fact, if it is...No problem...Doesn't invalidate my post at all....My point is that agencies with the power to depose Govts. and Prime Ministers with no accountability to the electorate is undemocratic...Who are they accountable to is my concern.

I am not surprised that an elected Govt. will seek to reduce such powers, on behalf of the electorate.....Perhaps it was part of their election platform, and they are obliged to carry out such actions when elected on such a platform.

In Thailand, a government would reduce the powers of the NACC on behalf of the electorate.

What are you smoking, you think Thai people are fools. Have some respect.

So he Is saying that it was part of PTP's election platform to reduce the powers of the body that would investigate them for corruption. There you go, democracy Shin style.

Smoking... LoL Maybe he is in Amsterdam. Just kidding.

So he Is saying that it was part of PTP's election platform to reduce the powers of the body that would investigate them for corruption. There you go, democracy Shin style.

Smoking... LoL Maybe he is in Amsterdam. Just kidding.

.................."Maybe he is in Amsterdam. Just kidding."....................

Maybe his post came from an Amsterdam boiler room. Not kidding.

[mikemac]

............................."We're Farangs and can leave when we want, I feel sorry for the Thai people who have no choice."............................

I suppose I could just leave when I want, but I have a wife and son, a house, and a Thailand based online business to consider before I just walk out. Not that easy for some of us.

And don't fell sorry for "the Thai people who have no choice", you make it sound like there is a mass exodus of Thai people trying to escape the country because of the political situation.

This is an absolute lie and propaganda spread by people who work in boiler rooms, or trolls who have nothing better to do with their lives.

Fact is, unless you are a red shirt, a radical, or a corrupt politician, life is much the same for most Thai people today as it was under previous governments.

These lies that are being spread have to be stopped. Apart from being bad for the country in general, it is actually against forum rules.

There is a certain group of posters on this site who are very lucky I am not a mod. Spreading lies, mistruths and rumors is against forum rules and if it was up to me I would ban the lot of them.

[JAG]

A sort of Thai Visa clause 44 then?

[fareastguy]

7 million baht paid for each family member as "life is precious" !!!

Obviously the value is flexible depending on who's doing the paying and for what services rendered.

I wonder if that is the same compensation the family from the bungee jump accident was being offered... they did say they would cover all costs ??

[Robby nz]

I don't know if your nom de plume is anything to do with that awful disease. But you are bang-on right about..., and I quote you ,

"We all know elections are evil" And especially in Thailand where every election is rigged... real elections would be very good for this nation But alas... will NEVER happen in my lifetime......

I thought the post was clear... but maybe not.

Khun Vicha is the person who made that claim... http://www.nytimes.com/2014/04/01/world/asia/in-thailand-some-foresee-a-coup-by-legal-means.html?_r=1

And he is one of the former military constitution drafters... Now head of the NACC - AKA the military's Lynching Mob

Another who makes it up as they go along.

Vicha is not the head of the NACC, the NACC Secretary-General is Sansern Poljieak and the Chairman is Mr Parnthep Klanarongran. http://englishnews.thaipbs.or.th/nacc-head-says-feel-pressure

Vicha heads this particular enquiry.

Your extremely bias link to the NY Times proves nothing except perhaps that Khun Vicha has long term experience of the goings on within the PT party.

The NACC has been the target of the PT red lynch mob so the staff there know very well what they are capable of : http://www.nationmultimedia.com/breakingnews/Red-shirts-surround-NACC-head-office-30227869.html

http://www.nationmultimedia.com/home/NACC-head-office-hit-by-bomb-attack-30125197.html

so I will apologize for making an inaccurate statement. Vicha is not head of the NACC. He is a commissioner and head of the committees investigating the rice program among other investigations.

So tell me, what difference does that make?

There ARE however other details which do shed light on his actions and bias, ... He was not only one of the drafters of the last military constitution, he was then appointed to the NACC as well by the 2006 military junta. Being a "military minion" could be a reason the last-elected-government tried to boot him from the NACC. You might recall that the last-elected-government and the military had a tense relationship.

In my opinion, Vicha makes a very reliable attack dog for the current group controlling Thailand.

Now, when it comes to biased links, you really want to call the NYT and Thomas Fuller biased? Well call them that if you want, I believe in Free Speech... On the other hand, I will also put you in the same clown car as the folks here always accusing the AFP of being biased.

It makes a difference that in your rush to condemn you will make inaccurate statements.

It could also be surmised that the positions and responsibilities Khun Vicha has been given shows the respect those in authority have in his competence and abilities.

But then you will twist things any way you want as you have shown you are coming from an extreme bias position, heck you even believe AFP is unbias.

However the whole thing comes down to corruption, nepotism and negligence and now double standards as Yingluck brushed off the NACC, as she did to the Ombudsman regarding big brothers passport.

There is no 'whtch hunt' as you and her few other supporters like to put it, this is about cleaning up politics in this country and making sure these things can never happen again.

[Robby nz]

There are thing that are going to happen in Thailand that are beyond the man in streets vote or opinion, in fact, no opinion is allowed, by law.

Any guess why The General who said there would be no coup and elections would be held swiftly is now saying 2 more years and the Polls show the Thai people support him, of course you are unable to answer this, it's against the law, what a convenient law.

We're Farangs and can leave when we want, I feel sorry for the Thai people who have no choice.

He said no coup??

"Thai army chief urged calm, doesn't rule out coup"

http://news.yahoo.com/thai-army-chief-urges-calm-doesn-39-t-091747388.html

Soon there will be a referendum (that's what they have been saying) on whether or not Prayuth should stay in power for a few years longer. I bet the majority wants him to stay.

There wouldn't dare be a referendum saying they want him out, can't you understand why the Military government is needed in this period of Thai history ?

I find it unbelievable that you think all this has happened for the happiness of the Thai people, it's got naff all to do with happiness of anyone except the very very rich and powerful, who want to remain rich and powerful, Ptayuth makes one mistake after the transition, they'll be after him and his family like a pack of hounds.

I've always wondered who these "Very, very rich and powerful" are as you appear to know perhaps you could enlighten me.

[BSJ]

" The former minister also defended the amount - Bt7 million - paid to the families of each person killed as not being too high as human life is priceless.

Obviously NOT priceless since they managed to put a price of 7 million Baht on each death."

Hmmm, the wife, mother and MIL of the dead soldier (One of 4 killed the other day in Yala) who was married to the daughter of my wifes friend each only received 750.000 baht compensation.

And the 3 year old son......not sure.

That compensation thing seems to be made up of rubbery figures!

[jerojero]

Urgent business? Unemployed doing <deleted>. What a joke!

[Nickymaster]

There are thing that are going to happen in Thailand that are beyond the man in streets vote or opinion, in fact, no opinion is allowed, by law.

Any guess why The General who said there would be no coup and elections would be held swiftly is now saying 2 more years and the Polls show the Thai people support him, of course you are unable to answer this, it's against the law, what a convenient law.

We're Farangs and can leave when we want, I feel sorry for the Thai people who have no choice.

He said no coup??

"Thai army chief urged calm, doesn't rule out coup"

http://news.yahoo.com/thai-army-chief-urges-calm-doesn-39-t-091747388.html

Soon there will be a referendum (that's what they have been saying) on whether or not Prayuth should stay in power for a few years longer. I bet the majority wants him to stay.

There wouldn't dare be a referendum saying they want him out, can't you understand why the Military government is needed in this period of Thai history ?

I find it unbelievable that you think all this has happened for the happiness of the Thai people, it's got naff all to do with happiness of anyone except the very very rich and powerful, who want to remain rich and powerful, Ptayuth makes one mistake after the transition, they'll be after him and his family like a pack of hounds.

I find it unbelievable that you think all this has happened for the happiness of the Thai people

What are you talking about? How do you know what I think regarding happiness of the Thai people? Did I mention something about happiness in my post?

Again: First I corrected you when you incorrectly stated that Prayuth never said that there would be no coup, and then I said if there would be a referendum on whether or not he should stay the majority of Thai people would want him to stay a little longer IMO.

Stop making up stories and stick to the topic and what is written in posts. You say things that have NOTHING to do with the topic, people reply to correct you, and then you start AGAIN by saying: "you really believe this, you really believe that, I find it unbelievable, but the army, but Suthep, but the rich".....Come on dude, give it a break! You are so blinded by your hate for anything non Shin that you don't realize that most of your posts have nothing to do with the topic anymore. You just try to catch any opportunity to start criticizing everything and everybody.

[rubl]

for gods sake you people get real people are sick and tired of reading about the shinawatra family there are far more pressing things to do in Thailand what she did was for the good of the people and she should not get pilloried for it.

In a topic on a Shinawatra it's difficult not to talk about a Shinawatra.

BTW "for the good of the people" is being questioned. It would seem only the 'right' people of decent red-shirt standing. No one seems to be able to indicate if relatives of non-red-shirt casualties were equally compensated.

Of course Ms. Yingluck has been given the opportunity to provide information, but it would seem she has more pressing issues. Pity really.

[Fat Haggis]

There are thing that are going to happen in Thailand that are beyond the man in streets vote or opinion, in fact, no opinion is allowed, by law.

Any guess why The General who said there would be no coup and elections would be held swiftly is now saying 2 more years and the Polls show the Thai people support him, of course you are unable to answer this, it's against the law, what a convenient law.

We're Farangs and can leave when we want, I feel sorry for the Thai people who have no choice.

He said no coup??

"Thai army chief urged calm, doesn't rule out coup"

http://news.yahoo.com/thai-army-chief-urges-calm-doesn-39-t-091747388.html

Soon there will be a referendum (that's what they have been saying) on whether or not Prayuth should stay in power for a few years longer. I bet the majority wants him to stay.

There wouldn't dare be a referendum saying they want him out, can't you understand why the Military government is needed in this period of Thai history ?

I find it unbelievable that you think all this has happened for the happiness of the Thai people, it's got naff all to do with happiness of anyone except the very very rich and powerful, who want to remain rich and powerful, Ptayuth makes one mistake after the transition, they'll be after him and his family like a pack of hounds.

I've always wondered who these "Very, very rich and powerful" are as you appear to know perhaps you could enlighten me.

Now who's trolling? ? you've been here long enough to know what's at stake and why things are the way they are right now.

[rubl]

Just like with the passport issue it would seem anything that happens with / to a Shinawatra is in need of attack, to be ridiculed and condemned. The real interesting comments are "doesn't Thailand have anything else to do".

It would seem the Shinawatra Propaganda Amplification Machine (aka SPAM) is really at it at the moment.

Edited June 11, 2015 by rubl

[rubl]

He said no coup??

"Thai army chief urged calm, doesn't rule out coup"

http://news.yahoo.com/thai-army-chief-urges-calm-doesn-39-t-091747388.html

Soon there will be a referendum (that's what they have been saying) on whether or not Prayuth should stay in power for a few years longer. I bet the majority wants him to stay.

There wouldn't dare be a referendum saying they want him out, can't you understand why the Military government is needed in this period of Thai history ?

I find it unbelievable that you think all this has happened for the happiness of the Thai people, it's got naff all to do with happiness of anyone except the very very rich and powerful, who want to remain rich and powerful, Ptayuth makes one mistake after the transition, they'll be after him and his family like a pack of hounds.

I've always wondered who these "Very, very rich and powerful" are as you appear to know perhaps you could enlighten me.

Now who's trolling? ? you've been here long enough to know what's at stake and why things are the way they are right now.

Absolutely. I mean, look how many suddenly start to defend the Amply Rich Shinawatras who are so 'unjustly' being 'prosecuted'.

Mind you, Ms. Yingluck got permission to miss the appointment and got a new one leaving her enough time for her 'sudden and important issue' and even leave some time to reach a state of mental stability and relaxation again.

[Robby nz]

There wouldn't dare be a referendum saying they want him out, can't you understand why the Military government is needed in this period of Thai history ?

I find it unbelievable that you think all this has happened for the happiness of the Thai people, it's got naff all to do with happiness of anyone except the very very rich and powerful, who want to remain rich and powerful, Ptayuth makes one mistake after the transition, they'll be after him and his family like a pack of hounds.

I've always wondered who these "Very, very rich and powerful" are as you appear to know perhaps you could enlighten me.

Now who's trolling? ? you've been here long enough to know what's at stake and why things are the way they are right now.

I genuinely am interested in what posters believe for every time it is the same, something that cant be talked about, you should know.

Translation.

I, we, haven't the faintest idea I, we, are just parroting what others have written, said.

I do know however what is being implied and it is an absolute load of crap invented for political ends to make someone look like the champion of the poor.

But that is another topic altogether.

[ddavidovsky]

For many though this is not a debate, but more like a crusade. Fired by a worked up righteous indignation, frothing with hatred and spitting vitriol, they take up the (virtual) sword, swearing not to rest until the (virtual) world is cleansed of those who do not stand by their views of what is right, and the evil which is dissent from their course is driven from the land!

A bit over the top I know, but sometimes when I read what is posted here I do wonder...

It is bizarre and somewhat pitiful. It's hardly natural that such virulent hatred could be part of someone's everyday life, so deeply ingrained in their personality as to blind them to everything else. It might be entertaining if it wasn't so dangerous.

Rather than a crusade it seems more like a concerted propaganda system in which they are paid by the post. Wouldn't put it past the fascists to infiltrate social media in that way - in fact I would be more surprised if it didn't happen. In any case, it's the only sense that can be made of apparently articulate foreigners arguing against democracy.

No one argues against democracy AFAICS

But many argue that an elected government that hands over control to a convicted criminal fugitive, breaks the law, lies and cheats, aren't acting democratically. The same government that states they only look after the interests of the large minority that voted for them. How democratic of them.

Of course all those Shin supporters, are posting out of a love for democracy and justice. A justice in which the only fair trial is one that finds in the Shins favor because they never ever do wrong.

Democracy is something the Shins have no interest in. Elections are o k as long as their minority is large enough to get them into government. If Thaksin ever gets back into power, and then loses a subsequent election you'll quickly see just how democratic he is.

It's noticeable so many posters spring up and repeat the old Shin lies, hoping perhaps those that know the facts will get fed up of correcting them. Infiltrating social media - didn't the PTP try to get their cyber police to warn people it was a crime to even click a like on someone else's post that was critical of the Shin regime?

Thank you for demonstrating exactly what I just said. I couldn't have illustrated it plainer. You have become deranged by hatred of one political faction to the extent that you don't even know it means you are arguing against democracy - though of course you are only pretending not to know, which is all the more distasteful.

You need to understand that in any society there are groups of people with different political views. You also need to understand also that people are entitled to their view and that your view doesn't somehow trump it. And you need to understand that Thai society is changing and the Shins are only a symptom of that.

And what you really need to understand - I've said it before - is that democracy is not intended to create good governments - it's about preventing really evil governments, such as military dictatorships, such as Burma, towards which Thailand is now sliding. Maybe the current guy means well - who knows? - but under this system, and especially with the forthcoming transition, the next guy might not, and that's a real danger. If you're a westerner you should have a better sense of history.

Alright, let me hear you address that last point, seeing as you ride roughshod over the others.

[GeckosDiving]

For many though this is not a debate, but more like a crusade. Fired by a worked up righteous indignation, frothing with hatred and spitting vitriol, they take up the (virtual) sword, swearing not to rest until the (virtual) world is cleansed of those who do not stand by their views of what is right, and the evil which is dissent from their course is driven from the land!

A bit over the top I know, but sometimes when I read what is posted here I do wonder...

It is bizarre and somewhat pitiful. It's hardly natural that such virulent hatred could be part of someone's everyday life, so deeply ingrained in their personality as to blind them to everything else. It might be entertaining if it wasn't so dangerous.

Rather than a crusade it seems more like a concerted propaganda system in which they are paid by the post. Wouldn't put it past the fascists to infiltrate social media in that way - in fact I would be more surprised if it didn't happen. In any case, it's the only sense that can be made of apparently articulate foreigners arguing against democracy.

No one argues against democracy AFAICS

But many argue that an elected government that hands over control to a convicted criminal fugitive, breaks the law, lies and cheats, aren't acting democratically. The same government that states they only look after the interests of the large minority that voted for them. How democratic of them.

Of course all those Shin supporters, are posting out of a love for democracy and justice. A justice in which the only fair trial is one that finds in the Shins favor because they never ever do wrong.

Democracy is something the Shins have no interest in. Elections are o k as long as their minority is large enough to get them into government. If Thaksin ever gets back into power, and then loses a subsequent election you'll quickly see just how democratic he is.

It's noticeable so many posters spring up and repeat the old Shin lies, hoping perhaps those that know the facts will get fed up of correcting them. Infiltrating social media - didn't the PTP try to get their cyber police to warn people it was a crime to even click a like on someone else's post that was critical of the Shin regime?

Thank you for demonstrating exactly what I just said. I couldn't have illustrated it plainer. You have become deranged by hatred of one political faction to the extent that you don't even know it means you are arguing against democracy - though of course you are only pretending not to know, which is all the more distasteful.

You need to understand that in any society there are groups of people with different political views. You also need to understand also that people are entitled to their view and that your view doesn't somehow trump it. And you need to understand that Thai society is changing and the Shins are only a symptom of that.

And what you really need to understand - I've said it before - is that democracy is not intended to create good governments - it's about preventing really evil governments, such as military dictatorships, such as Burma, towards which Thailand is now sliding. Maybe the current guy means well - who knows? - but under this system, and especially with the forthcoming transition, the next guy might not, and that's a real danger. If you're a westerner you should have a better sense of history.

Alright, let me hear you address that last point, seeing as you ride roughshod over the others.

[ginjag]

For many though this is not a debate, but more like a crusade. Fired by a worked up righteous indignation, frothing with hatred and spitting vitriol, they take up the (virtual) sword, swearing not to rest until the (virtual) world is cleansed of those who do not stand by their views of what is right, and the evil which is dissent from their course is driven from the land!

A bit over the top I know, but sometimes when I read what is posted here I do wonder...

It is bizarre and somewhat pitiful. It's hardly natural that such virulent hatred could be part of someone's everyday life, so deeply ingrained in their personality as to blind them to everything else. It might be entertaining if it wasn't so dangerous.

Rather than a crusade it seems more like a concerted propaganda system in which they are paid by the post. Wouldn't put it past the fascists to infiltrate social media in that way - in fact I would be more surprised if it didn't happen. In any case, it's the only sense that can be made of apparently articulate foreigners arguing against democracy.

No one argues against democracy AFAICS

But many argue that an elected government that hands over control to a convicted criminal fugitive, breaks the law, lies and cheats, aren't acting democratically. The same government that states they only look after the interests of the large minority that voted for them. How democratic of them.

Of course all those Shin supporters, are posting out of a love for democracy and justice. A justice in which the only fair trial is one that finds in the Shins favor because they never ever do wrong.

Democracy is something the Shins have no interest in. Elections are o k as long as their minority is large enough to get them into government. If Thaksin ever gets back into power, and then loses a subsequent election you'll quickly see just how democratic he is.

It's noticeable so many posters spring up and repeat the old Shin lies, hoping perhaps those that know the facts will get fed up of correcting them. Infiltrating social media - didn't the PTP try to get their cyber police to warn people it was a crime to even click a like on someone else's post that was critical of the Shin regime?

Thank you for demonstrating exactly what I just said. I couldn't have illustrated it plainer. You have become deranged by hatred of one political faction to the extent that you don't even know it means you are arguing against democracy - though of course you are only pretending not to know, which is all the more distasteful.

You need to understand that in any society there are groups of people with different political views. You also need to understand also that people are entitled to their view and that your view doesn't somehow trump it. And you need to understand that Thai society is changing and the Shins are only a symptom of that.

And what you really need to understand - I've said it before - is that democracy is not intended to create good governments - it's about preventing really evil governments, such as military dictatorships, such as Burma, towards which Thailand is now sliding. Maybe the current guy means well - who knows? - but under this system, and especially with the forthcoming transition, the next guy might not, and that's a real danger. If you're a westerner you should have a better sense of history.

Alright, let me hear you address that last point, seeing as you ride roughshod over the others.

An evil government has just been given the boot, this family have been given the boot before-----this IS democracy--as you said preventing diabolical governing----we have that evidence.

It does not matter one iota who takes control as long as the rot is stopped.

Your referring to the Burmese Junta is codswhallop, an excuse to slag off the PM and divert from the topic, with you being a lover of the Shins, The biggest danger to Thailand would be your hero returning and taking over again--------he is a control freak----money grabber---I'm in the limelight nutter. PROVEN.

[mikemac]

A sort of Thai Visa clause 44 then?

What are you on about ? You would be one of the worst posters on this forum for posting lies and propaganda. You are trying to make Thailand look bad so as to aid your vendetta against the present government. Who are you trying to fool/hoodwink/brainwash ?

..................."A sort of Thai Visa clause 44 then?".........................

You crap on about Clause 44 like it is bandied around affecting everyone in the country every day in a negative way. How has it affected you and when was it used last ?

The PTP did not need a Clause 44, they just rushed dodgy deals through in the middle of the night, or tried to anyway.

You would have us believe that when the Shin regime ruled everything was rosy..............except for the farmers protesting about not being paid for their rice and being lied to time after time to stall them, innocent people being killed on the streets by the terrorists who were in the employ of the government (only in Thailand ?, not quite but close) while the police stood back and did nothing, farmers committing suicide over the non-payments and the financial hardships it caused, a PM who broke some kind of record for making overseas (shopping) trips and missing important meetings etc etc etc...................................Think back, real hard, don't you remember those events ?

If the junta was only half as bad as what you make it out to be someone from the government would have "obtained" your IP address by now and you would have been hauled off in the middle of the night for "re-adjustment".

Would love to be a fly on the wall for that !

[rubl]

No one argues against democracy AFAICS

But many argue that an elected government that hands over control to a convicted criminal fugitive, breaks the law, lies and cheats, aren't acting democratically. The same government that states they only look after the interests of the large minority that voted for them. How democratic of them.

Of course all those Shin supporters, are posting out of a love for democracy and justice. A justice in which the only fair trial is one that finds in the Shins favor because they never ever do wrong.

Democracy is something the Shins have no interest in. Elections are o k as long as their minority is large enough to get them into government. If Thaksin ever gets back into power, and then loses a subsequent election you'll quickly see just how democratic he is.

It's noticeable so many posters spring up and repeat the old Shin lies, hoping perhaps those that know the facts will get fed up of correcting them. Infiltrating social media - didn't the PTP try to get their cyber police to warn people it was a crime to even click a like on someone else's post that was critical of the Shin regime?

Thank you for demonstrating exactly what I just said. I couldn't have illustrated it plainer. You have become deranged by hatred of one political faction to the extent that you don't even know it means you are arguing against democracy - though of course you are only pretending not to know, which is all the more distasteful.

You need to understand that in any society there are groups of people with different political views. You also need to understand also that people are entitled to their view and that your view doesn't somehow trump it. And you need to understand that Thai society is changing and the Shins are only a symptom of that.

And what you really need to understand - I've said it before - is that democracy is not intended to create good governments - it's about preventing really evil governments, such as military dictatorships, such as Burma, towards which Thailand is now sliding. Maybe the current guy means well - who knows? - but under this system, and especially with the forthcoming transition, the next guy might not, and that's a real danger. If you're a westerner you should have a better sense of history.

Alright, let me hear you address that last point, seeing as you ride roughshod over the others.

Well, democracy in Thailand was also unable to prevent a proxy government run by a criminal abroad.

Anyway, that has nothing to do with Ms. Yingluck being accused to have favoured red-shirts in handing out a few billions in compensation money to red-shirt relatives. Somehow no one seems to be able to indicate how many and/or who of the non-red-shirt casualties relatives were compensated.

Also strange still that on handing over cheques the relatives had to sign a document not to sue the Yingluck Government. Almost as if the new government was not the natural successor of the previous government (lock, stock and barrel).

[Baerboxer]

For many though this is not a debate, but more like a crusade. Fired by a worked up righteous indignation, frothing with hatred and spitting vitriol, they take up the (virtual) sword, swearing not to rest until the (virtual) world is cleansed of those who do not stand by their views of what is right, and the evil which is dissent from their course is driven from the land!

A bit over the top I know, but sometimes when I read what is posted here I do wonder...

It is bizarre and somewhat pitiful. It's hardly natural that such virulent hatred could be part of someone's everyday life, so deeply ingrained in their personality as to blind them to everything else. It might be entertaining if it wasn't so dangerous.

Rather than a crusade it seems more like a concerted propaganda system in which they are paid by the post. Wouldn't put it past the fascists to infiltrate social media in that way - in fact I would be more surprised if it didn't happen. In any case, it's the only sense that can be made of apparently articulate foreigners arguing against democracy.

No one argues against democracy AFAICS

But many argue that an elected government that hands over control to a convicted criminal fugitive, breaks the law, lies and cheats, aren't acting democratically. The same government that states they only look after the interests of the large minority that voted for them. How democratic of them.

Of course all those Shin supporters, are posting out of a love for democracy and justice. A justice in which the only fair trial is one that finds in the Shins favor because they never ever do wrong.

Democracy is something the Shins have no interest in. Elections are o k as long as their minority is large enough to get them into government. If Thaksin ever gets back into power, and then loses a subsequent election you'll quickly see just how democratic he is.

It's noticeable so many posters spring up and repeat the old Shin lies, hoping perhaps those that know the facts will get fed up of correcting them. Infiltrating social media - didn't the PTP try to get their cyber police to warn people it was a crime to even click a like on someone else's post that was critical of the Shin regime?

Thank you for demonstrating exactly what I just said. I couldn't have illustrated it plainer. You have become deranged by hatred of one political faction to the extent that you don't even know it means you are arguing against democracy - though of course you are only pretending not to know, which is all the more distasteful.

You need to understand that in any society there are groups of people with different political views. You also need to understand also that people are entitled to their view and that your view doesn't somehow trump it. And you need to understand that Thai society is changing and the Shins are only a symptom of that.

And what you really need to understand - I've said it before - is that democracy is not intended to create good governments - it's about preventing really evil governments, such as military dictatorships, such as Burma, towards which Thailand is now sliding. Maybe the current guy means well - who knows? - but under this system, and especially with the forthcoming transition, the next guy might not, and that's a real danger. If you're a westerner you should have a better sense of history.

Alright, let me hear you address that last point, seeing as you ride roughshod over the others.

Ah another usual Shin lovers tactic. Anyone who refuses to simply accept the incredulous lies trotted out by Shins and their lackeys must be deranged. While of course Shin lovers are free to insult anyone they like.

Your unwavering support for family owned and ran government who handed power and control to a non elected criminal fugitive who simply ran things for his own benefit is rich, when you call other distasteful. Look in a mirror Jimmie.

The Shinwattras were not democratic, did not respect law, honesty, truth or govern in the best interests of the people. They lied, cheated, got caught and failed in trying to make themselves above all laws. And not for the first time. If you're a Westerner, how you can confuse them with democracy is baffling. Unless you have your own reasons of course.

Do you consider it lawful and democratic for a government to be owned by a criminal who pays them a salary to vote how he instructs, to do his bidding, to carry out his policies and above all to try and whitewash his past crimes, outstanding charges, and make sure no future charges are permitted?

You must have a very twisted and deranged idea of democracy. Did you grow up in the DDR?

Edited June 11, 2015 by Baerboxer

[Fat Haggis]

There wouldn't dare be a referendum saying they want him out, can't you understand why the Military government is needed in this period of Thai history ?

I find it unbelievable that you think all this has happened for the happiness of the Thai people, it's got naff all to do with happiness of anyone except the very very rich and powerful, who want to remain rich and powerful, Ptayuth makes one mistake after the transition, they'll be after him and his family like a pack of hounds.

I've always wondered who these "Very, very rich and powerful" are as you appear to know perhaps you could enlighten me.

Now who's trolling? ? you've been here long enough to know what's at stake and why things are the way they are right now.

I genuinely am interested in what posters believe for every time it is the same, something that cant be talked about, you should know.

Translation.

I, we, haven't the faintest idea I, we, are just parroting what others have written, said.

I do know however what is being implied and it is an absolute load of crap invented for political ends to make someone look like the champion of the poor.

But that is another topic altogether.

If you took off your hatred blinkers, just for a single moment, and see past Thaksin, you will know exactly why the PTP cannot be in control when a certain day arrives, but it's the fear that's being generated that's causing the behind the scenes movements.

For someone who has lived in the Kingdom for such a long time, and seen the military grow stronger and stronger, and less and less accountable, you don't seem to have a problem with that.. I would call that Apathy.

You, and many others keep labelling anti junta people and pro Shins, I think you'd find that most don't want the Shins back in power, but what IS the solution Robby? Demographically the Poor areas have the greater electorate, you constantly whine and whine and whine about the Shins, but just answer this simple question.. what did they do between 2011 and 2014 to you personally, that effected your daily life?

You and many other Kool aid farangs really need to get over yourselves, your opinions, like mine are just like farts in the wind, but you get so irate and wound up, it's like you live and breath Thai Politics, if it irks you so much, and you have PR, why not run as an prospective MP against whatever the PTP will reinvent themselves as.

You're also naive if you think that ALL the stops are being pulled out to prevent the likes of Thaksin ever having control over the Government isn't happening.

Personally I couldn't care less about the PTP or Thaksin, it's not me who has the vote, it's all my family and friends, its up to the powers that be to convince them, and every other PTP voter that there are alternatives, and those alternatives HAVE to live up to whatever it is that they pledge to swing votes... but how can they swing such votes, when it's not allowed to be put to them. The Junta and the NCPO have stamped out political gatherings, so how exactly do you convince people that their right to vote, should be done for the right reason, so that the right people can run the country.

The Junta running the country should have only been a short term fix, but it won't be, the playing field still has too many obstacles on it, and the junta has the ball, and they're not letting go of it. The rumblings from the PDRC should be a combat indicator to may as well, Suthep and Issara are becoming more vocal, and as every day passes, their roadmap is looking like what the General is working to.

You just don't want to see past your own hatred for the Shins, and you lap up the Junta for all it's worth, yes its great the Shins are being pushed further away, but it's quite obvious there's a huge purge ongoing, you don't have to be a red supporter to see this, Christ, even outside of Thailand the press and TV are looking at what's going on in the same light, are they all PTP/Shin fans too.... that's just Childish when grown, senior citizens spout that nonesense.

All that hatred for the Shins on here from a certain section of Frangs will leave them nasty bitter old men, for some it's maybe too late

I would like the electorate to be given the chance to prove the PTP are in the minority, hold the elections as planned, and IF the PTP are outvoted, the winners can Reform away till their 4-5 year tenure is up. even if the PTP were to win, they know full well if they didn't cow tow to the likes of Suthep and Co, or to the Army for that matter, they too will be out on their erses.

Reforms before a referendum/election is nothing short of delaying tactics, and want to bet that is exactly what will happen, as the Junta don't wish to see the whistle blowing crowds back on the streets. Prayuth will do what he's told, he cannot allow a repeat of 2014.

The country is as divided today as it was then... reconcilliation seems to have worked well, more like a token gesture, whilst the ducks were being lined up. Reforms are needed, right through the whole infrastructure of the country, from the Army itself, 1000-1500 Generals says it all doesn't it?, through Educations, the economy all the way down to Family values.

You and a few others might think the Junta are the people to be able to do this, I and many others don't, and therein lies the problem, the Thai people have the same Status Quo, and until the people can start chosing their prospective politicians, then it's never going to get any better, but then again, who knows, and that might actually be the long term master plan.

[Rimmer]

A personal attack on another member has been removed

[mikemac]

so why did the NACC not pursue theses cases until now

....

Maybe they just received their brown envelopes?

Sorry, I digress. You are asking a serious question which deserves a serious answer, so here we go.

Maybe they just received their brown envelopes?

Only in brown envelopes ? That's not much of a bribe. Descent bribes come in cake boxes !

[Fat Haggis]

so why did the NACC not pursue theses cases until now

....

Maybe they just received their brown envelopes?

Sorry, I digress. You are asking a serious question which deserves a serious answer, so here we go.

Maybe they just received their brown envelopes?

Only in brown envelopes ? That's not much of a bribe. Descent bribes come in cake boxes !

Great if you get to eat the cake beforehand!!

[bamukloy]

She cant very show up as others have mentioned, shes dodged 99% of questions asked.

But all she can say is..

" because I was told"

I believe she hasnt the grey matter to realise the implications of some of the things she ok'd by advice of her advisors.

I do feel sorry for her in a way, but i for 1 think she is a pretty good example of everything that needs to change here

[Sheryl]

A 2 party flamefest is hereby officially declared OVER and posts have been removed. You know who you are. Cease and desist.