Thai govt's manipulation of referendum a masterstroke

[webfact]

BURNING ISSUE
Govt's manipulation of referendum a masterstroke
NITIPOL KIRAVANICH

BANGKOK: -- THE government has finally come up with a good strategy to insert a tricky question in the national referendum on the draft charter set for January next year.

A fiercely debated topic emerged last week when National Reform Council (NRC) member Paiboon Nititawan, who is also a member of the Constitution Drafting Committee (CDC), proposed postponing the general election for two years so that national reforms could be completed. He said the public wanted that.

Many of his fellow reformers support the proposal, but anti-coup groups strongly object to it because it would result in the National Council for Peace and Order (NCPO) and the government staying in power longer than they had promised in their road map.

Those who oppose the government and the NCPO claimed that the purpose of the proposal was for either the government or one of its appointed agencies to try and retain power, although Prime Minister Prayut Chan-o-cha has insisted that he has no intention of doing so.

The image of the government has worsened since a joint meeting between the NCPO and the Cabinet concluded giving the NRC and the NCPO the opportunity to each insert one question in the national referendum.

Thammasat University political scientist Attasit Pankaew said Paiboon's proposal did not indicate the NCPO was trying to prolong its power, but the questions inserted in the referendum by relevant agencies could be proof of whether there was an inclination in those agencies or the government to stay in power longer.

If the NCPO and the Cabinet have no intention of staying in power longer, the public should not be asked if it wants to see two more years of reform before the next election is held, while it should not have been taken for granted that the NRC and the NCPO get one question each in the referendum.

It is also worth mentioning again that if the public votes down the draft charter and the idea of two more years of national reform, the drafting process would go back to square one and the CDC and the NRC would have to get new members.

This outcome would surely delay the election.

Besides, there is no guarantee the new members would not be handpicked by the government and would have more legitimacy than the existing bodies.

Also, if those who oppose the government swallow their pride and vote to approve the new charter in order for the election to be held as soon as possible, a new constitution drafted by people they dislike would be enforced. But on the plus side, the NCPO, NLA, NRC, CDC and the Cabinet's terms would soon end.

At the end of the process, the junta may find it has upstaged its opposition with a brilliant strategy.

Source: http://www.nationmultimedia.com/politics/Govts-manipulation-of-referendum-a-masterstroke-30262179.html


-- The Nation 2015-06-12

[Fat Haggis]

Nobody ever saw him or knew anybody that ever worked directly for him, but ... The greatest trick the Devil ever pulled was convincing the world he didn't exist

not so much a masterstroke, simple pulling the wool over the elecorates eyes, so that they're damed if they do and damned if they don't and the Junta get their way.. pretty much what many here have been saying all along.

[robblok]

I can't say I am against the junta staying on longer. I finally see them going after stuff like corruption (at least more as the previous government). Doing something about encroachment, the taxi's, the beaches and many other things. No violence on the street no judges being threatened. Finally the law can get a bit of hold in Thailand. Those connected before are slowly but surely being checked for corruption and action taken. I have never before seen so many high level cases going to court. Totally different then when PTP was in power.

For us foreigners nothing much has changed, (except that the 90 days is now doable on-line, under Thaksins government was the 90 days checks were reinstated so this is clearly better). But this not about foreigners.. we play a small role.. if any so i go for stability if the red wants to riot let them riot outside of BKK. Wonder if the red members like it if they cause trouble at their doorstep.

Quite smart of them to do it this way and the longer the reds are deprived of funds (no longer in power no longer able to rape the Thai treasury) the less likely it is that they come back unless someone is going to risk a whole lot of money.

Also this whole process should not be rushed.. a good charter should emerge.. not a hastily assembled one.

All this does not mean I agree with all the junta does.. certainly not but I see it as the least bad solution.

[tx22cb]

Why not by-pass all the confusing referenda and hold a general election with 1 additional party - the Junta Party, whose sole platform would be "We will continue the reforms with Article 44 in place for an extra 2 years".

Then, when the (purported) majority of Thais elect the Junta Party, everything will be on track and the pro-democracy politicians//EU/Americans will not have any reason to question General Prayuth's lack of popular persondate.

[JOC]

I can't say I am against the junta staying on longer. I finally see them going after stuff like corruption (at least more as the previous government). Doing something about encroachment, the taxi's, the beaches and many other things. No violence on the street no judges being threatened. Finally the law can get a bit of hold in Thailand. Those connected before are slowly but surely being checked for corruption and action taken. I have never before seen so many high level cases going to court. Totally different then when PTP was in power.

For us foreigners nothing much has changed, (except that the 90 days is now doable on-line, under Thaksins government was the 90 days checks were reinstated so this is clearly better). But this not about foreigners.. we play a small role.. if any so i go for stability if the red wants to riot let them riot outside of BKK. Wonder if the red members like it if they cause trouble at their doorstep.

Quite smart of them to do it this way and the longer the reds are deprived of funds (no longer in power no longer able to rape the Thai treasury) the less likely it is that they come back unless someone is going to risk a whole lot of money.

Also this whole process should not be rushed.. a good charter should emerge.. not a hastily assembled one.

All this does not mean I agree with all the junta does.. certainly not but I see it as the least bad solution.

You simply don't get it, do you ??

You think that cleaning a few beaches, fixing the taxi ranks (sort of fixed) and the all important lottery pricing are the way forward?

Those are low hanging fruits, easy to pick and parade for the sheep!!

For good measure throw in a purge against political opponents, and if nothing else works, charge them with LM !!

>> if any so i go for stability if the red wants to riot let them riot outside of BKK. Wonder if the red members like it if they cause trouble at their doorstep<<

So your hatred for the PTP, all comes down to, that the pesky demonstrators inconvenienced Khun Robbie on his way to work??

Don't you think that the majority of Thai voters are "inconvenienced" by over and over again see their

constitutionally cast votes voided by the army and/or the judiciary??

Yes Thailand needs reforms, but not at gunpoint!!

Let the voters decide, who they want to steal from them...............

[robblok]

I can't say I am against the junta staying on longer. I finally see them going after stuff like corruption (at least more as the previous government). Doing something about encroachment, the taxi's, the beaches and many other things. No violence on the street no judges being threatened. Finally the law can get a bit of hold in Thailand. Those connected before are slowly but surely being checked for corruption and action taken. I have never before seen so many high level cases going to court. Totally different then when PTP was in power.

For us foreigners nothing much has changed, (except that the 90 days is now doable on-line, under Thaksins government was the 90 days checks were reinstated so this is clearly better). But this not about foreigners.. we play a small role.. if any so i go for stability if the red wants to riot let them riot outside of BKK. Wonder if the red members like it if they cause trouble at their doorstep.

Quite smart of them to do it this way and the longer the reds are deprived of funds (no longer in power no longer able to rape the Thai treasury) the less likely it is that they come back unless someone is going to risk a whole lot of money.

Also this whole process should not be rushed.. a good charter should emerge.. not a hastily assembled one.

All this does not mean I agree with all the junta does.. certainly not but I see it as the least bad solution.

You simply don't get it, do you ??

You think that cleaning a few beaches, fixing the taxi ranks (sort of fixed) and the all important lottery pricing are the way forward?

Those are low hanging fruits, easy to pick and parade for the sheep!!

For good measure throw in a purge against political opponents, and if nothing else works, charge them with LM !!

>> if any so i go for stability if the red wants to riot let them riot outside of BKK. Wonder if the red members like it if they cause trouble at their doorstep<<

So your hatred for the PTP, all comes down to, that the pesky demonstrators inconvenienced Khun Robbie on his way to work??

Don't you think that the majority of Thai voters are "inconvenienced" by over and over again see their

constitutionally cast votes voided by the army and/or the judiciary??

Yes Thailand needs reforms, but not at gunpoint!!

Let the voters decide, who they want to steal from them...............

I guess you don't get it but that is clear.

You call it low hanging fruits.. i call it progress.. the previous government did not even go for low hanging fruit, instead all they did was to cheat the Thai taxpayer out of money.. and even more important get Thaksin back and and clear 26.000 !!! corruption cases with the amnesty. That is walking backwards.. compared to that low hanging fruits is a major step.

Yes the protesters did inconvenience me, but that was not really a problem. The deaths and violence were especially as the previous government seemed to use this to force the protesters to go home. (unleashing their red war dogs on them with one hand) while telling the protesters to go home as they were unsafe. No red-shirt was caught.. until the army stepped in. Makes the smart people think (not you your brain washed).

At least we agree that Thailand needs reforms.

Actually unlike you I don't think the voters should whitewash criminals, i feel that the law should always be upheld. Winning an election does not mean you don't have to uphold the law and play by the rules. Had the PTP known that there would not be a coup. I would have supported even the PTP if they had uphold the law (no black rice budgets and so on.. no 2 trillion loan to cover up the losses of a rice program), no crazy amnesty for one man, no convicted criminal leading a country by proxy. Just things that would not be ok in a real democracy.

The moment there is a real democracy id defend it against the army, fake democracies are on par with an junta and if I have to choose ill go for the one that is least bad. For instance one that brings a country forward.. even if only low hanging fruits.. and not lets a country walk backwards.. with dropping 26.000 corruption cases and bringing a corrupt criminal back.

Edited June 12, 2015 by robblok

[smutcakes]

I can't say I am against the junta staying on longer. I finally see them going after stuff like corruption (at least more as the previous government). Doing something about encroachment, the taxi's, the beaches and many other things. No violence on the street no judges being threatened. Finally the law can get a bit of hold in Thailand. Those connected before are slowly but surely being checked for corruption and action taken. I have never before seen so many high level cases going to court. Totally different then when PTP was in power.

For us foreigners nothing much has changed, (except that the 90 days is now doable on-line, under Thaksins government was the 90 days checks were reinstated so this is clearly better). But this not about foreigners.. we play a small role.. if any so i go for stability if the red wants to riot let them riot outside of BKK. Wonder if the red members like it if they cause trouble at their doorstep.

Quite smart of them to do it this way and the longer the reds are deprived of funds (no longer in power no longer able to rape the Thai treasury) the less likely it is that they come back unless someone is going to risk a whole lot of money.

Also this whole process should not be rushed.. a good charter should emerge.. not a hastily assembled one.

All this does not mean I agree with all the junta does.. certainly not but I see it as the least bad solution.

You simply don't get it, do you ??

You think that cleaning a few beaches, fixing the taxi ranks (sort of fixed) and the all important lottery pricing are the way forward?

Those are low hanging fruits, easy to pick and parade for the sheep!!

For good measure throw in a purge against political opponents, and if nothing else works, charge them with LM !!

>> if any so i go for stability if the red wants to riot let them riot outside of BKK. Wonder if the red members like it if they cause trouble at their doorstep<<

So your hatred for the PTP, all comes down to, that the pesky demonstrators inconvenienced Khun Robbie on his way to work??

Don't you think that the majority of Thai voters are "inconvenienced" by over and over again see their

constitutionally cast votes voided by the army and/or the judiciary??

Yes Thailand needs reforms, but not at gunpoint!!

Let the voters decide, who they want to steal from them...............

I guess you don't get it but that is clear.

You call it low hanging fruits.. i call it progress.. the previous government did not even go for low hanging fruit, instead all they did was to cheat the Thai taxpayer out of money.. and even more important get Thaksin back and and clear 26.000 !!! corruption cases with the amnesty. That is walking backwards.. compared to that low hanging fruits is a major step.

Yes the protesters did inconvenience me, but that was not really a problem. The deaths and violence were especially as the previous government seemed to use this to force the protesters to go home. (unleashing their red war dogs on them with one hand) while telling the protesters to go home as they were unsafe. No red-shirt was caught.. until the army stepped in. Makes the smart people think (not you your brain washed).

At least we agree that Thailand needs reforms.

Actually unlike you I don't think the voters should whitewash criminals, i feel that the law should always be upheld. Winning an election does not mean you don't have to uphold the law and play by the rules. Had the PTP known that there would not be a coup. I would have supported even the PTP if they had uphold the law (no black rice budgets and so on.. no 2 trillion loan to cover up the losses of a rice program), no crazy amnesty for one man, no convicted criminal leading a country by proxy. Just things that would not be ok in a real democracy.

The moment there is a real democracy id defend it against the army, fake democracies are on par with an junta and if I have to choose ill go for the one that is least bad. For instance one that brings a country forward.. even if only low hanging fruits.. and not lets a country walk backwards.. with dropping 26.000 corruption cases and bringing a corrupt criminal back.

What would you suggest we do if the army stay in power and the corruption still goes on unabated? as previous experience shows it will.

[halloween]

(snip)

Let the voters decide, who they want to steal from them...............

I can see it happening! Yingluk and the PTP boys campaigning with a STOP Corruption policy.............

[Fat Haggis]

Alas, it's all about bangkok isn't it?

How well has the Junta fared in the South qwelling the violence and unrest down there?

How well have they stopped the intimidation and assaults against teachers and government officials?

How much effort has been put in by the Junta to solve a 10 year old problem? Where there have been over 5,000 deaths, as opposed to the political detahs of the Anti Government Protestors?

Despite many people thinking ...but but but but the South hasn't got anything do with the current situation... here's a novel idea, why not fix the shit that has been broken the longest first?

The South is still Thailand, reformation effects the WHOLE country, and that most definately includes the South..

However, like the KADC, I'm very very confident the insurgency in the South will be a thing of the past by 1159 PM on the 31st December 2015 and there will be no more acts of violence there... as that's what the Junta have stated before

[halloween]

Alas, it's all about bangkok isn't it?

How well has the Junta fared in the South qwelling the violence and unrest down there?

How well have they stopped the intimidation and assaults against teachers and government officials?

How much effort has been put in by the Junta to solve a 10 year old problem? Where there have been over 5,000 deaths, as opposed to the political detahs of the Anti Government Protestors?

Despite many people thinking ...but but but but the South hasn't got anything do with the current situation... here's a novel idea, why not fix the shit that has been broken the longest first?

The South is still Thailand, reformation effects the WHOLE country, and that most definately includes the South..

However, like the KADC, I'm very very confident the insurgency in the South will be a thing of the past by 1159 PM on the 31st December 2015 and there will be no more acts of violence there... as that's what the Junta have stated before

Don't corrupt governments predate the southern insurgency?

[robblok]

Alas, it's all about bangkok isn't it?

How well has the Junta fared in the South qwelling the violence and unrest down there?

How well have they stopped the intimidation and assaults against teachers and government officials?

How much effort has been put in by the Junta to solve a 10 year old problem? Where there have been over 5,000 deaths, as opposed to the political detahs of the Anti Government Protestors?

Despite many people thinking ...but but but but the South hasn't got anything do with the current situation... here's a novel idea, why not fix the shit that has been broken the longest first?

The South is still Thailand, reformation effects the WHOLE country, and that most definately includes the South..

However, like the KADC, I'm very very confident the insurgency in the South will be a thing of the past by 1159 PM on the 31st December 2015 and there will be no more acts of violence there... as that's what the Junta have stated before

You know as well as any that this a hard problem to solve.. one that ignited under Thaksins reign. Does not mean they should not try but bit unfair target to give them.

[Fat Haggis]

Alas, it's all about bangkok isn't it?

How well has the Junta fared in the South qwelling the violence and unrest down there?

How well have they stopped the intimidation and assaults against teachers and government officials?

How much effort has been put in by the Junta to solve a 10 year old problem? Where there have been over 5,000 deaths, as opposed to the political detahs of the Anti Government Protestors?

Despite many people thinking ...but but but but the South hasn't got anything do with the current situation... here's a novel idea, why not fix the shit that has been broken the longest first?

The South is still Thailand, reformation effects the WHOLE country, and that most definately includes the South..

However, like the KADC, I'm very very confident the insurgency in the South will be a thing of the past by 1159 PM on the 31st December 2015 and there will be no more acts of violence there... as that's what the Junta have stated before

Don't corrupt governments predate the southern insurgency?

Considering the fact that all Thai Governments since the 1930's have pretty much been corrupt, I'd say that makes an accurate statement

[robblok]

I can't say I am against the junta staying on longer. I finally see them going after stuff like corruption (at least more as the previous government). Doing something about encroachment, the taxi's, the beaches and many other things. No violence on the street no judges being threatened. Finally the law can get a bit of hold in Thailand. Those connected before are slowly but surely being checked for corruption and action taken. I have never before seen so many high level cases going to court. Totally different then when PTP was in power.

For us foreigners nothing much has changed, (except that the 90 days is now doable on-line, under Thaksins government was the 90 days checks were reinstated so this is clearly better). But this not about foreigners.. we play a small role.. if any so i go for stability if the red wants to riot let them riot outside of BKK. Wonder if the red members like it if they cause trouble at their doorstep.

Quite smart of them to do it this way and the longer the reds are deprived of funds (no longer in power no longer able to rape the Thai treasury) the less likely it is that they come back unless someone is going to risk a whole lot of money.

Also this whole process should not be rushed.. a good charter should emerge.. not a hastily assembled one.

All this does not mean I agree with all the junta does.. certainly not but I see it as the least bad solution.

You simply don't get it, do you ??

You think that cleaning a few beaches, fixing the taxi ranks (sort of fixed) and the all important lottery pricing are the way forward?

Those are low hanging fruits, easy to pick and parade for the sheep!!

For good measure throw in a purge against political opponents, and if nothing else works, charge them with LM !!

>> if any so i go for stability if the red wants to riot let them riot outside of BKK. Wonder if the red members like it if they cause trouble at their doorstep<<

So your hatred for the PTP, all comes down to, that the pesky demonstrators inconvenienced Khun Robbie on his way to work??

Don't you think that the majority of Thai voters are "inconvenienced" by over and over again see their

constitutionally cast votes voided by the army and/or the judiciary??

Yes Thailand needs reforms, but not at gunpoint!!

Let the voters decide, who they want to steal from them...............

I guess you don't get it but that is clear.

You call it low hanging fruits.. i call it progress.. the previous government did not even go for low hanging fruit, instead all they did was to cheat the Thai taxpayer out of money.. and even more important get Thaksin back and and clear 26.000 !!! corruption cases with the amnesty. That is walking backwards.. compared to that low hanging fruits is a major step.

Yes the protesters did inconvenience me, but that was not really a problem. The deaths and violence were especially as the previous government seemed to use this to force the protesters to go home. (unleashing their red war dogs on them with one hand) while telling the protesters to go home as they were unsafe. No red-shirt was caught.. until the army stepped in. Makes the smart people think (not you your brain washed).

At least we agree that Thailand needs reforms.

Actually unlike you I don't think the voters should whitewash criminals, i feel that the law should always be upheld. Winning an election does not mean you don't have to uphold the law and play by the rules. Had the PTP known that there would not be a coup. I would have supported even the PTP if they had uphold the law (no black rice budgets and so on.. no 2 trillion loan to cover up the losses of a rice program), no crazy amnesty for one man, no convicted criminal leading a country by proxy. Just things that would not be ok in a real democracy.

The moment there is a real democracy id defend it against the army, fake democracies are on par with an junta and if I have to choose ill go for the one that is least bad. For instance one that brings a country forward.. even if only low hanging fruits.. and not lets a country walk backwards.. with dropping 26.000 corruption cases and bringing a corrupt criminal back.

What would you suggest we do if the army stay in power and the corruption still goes on unabated? as previous experience shows it will.

I would say fight against corruption but so far at least you see progress here.. instead of going back. 26.000 corruption cases need I say more ?. At least the junta is making progress, they even have a police reform on the agenda. The previous government did not dare touching the rip off taxis because the majority of taxi drivers voted PTP. Now at least something is done.. still far from a lot.. but secret checks and fines never seen this happening before.

I don't expect it to be solved quickly.. as long as we are going forward not backwards like under the PTP.

[SOUTHERNSTAR]

I can't say I am against the junta staying on longer. I finally see them going after stuff like corruption (at least more as the previous government). Doing something about encroachment, the taxi's, the beaches and many other things. No violence on the street no judges being threatened. Finally the law can get a bit of hold in Thailand. Those connected before are slowly but surely being checked for corruption and action taken. I have never before seen so many high level cases going to court. Totally different then when PTP was in power.

For us foreigners nothing much has changed, (except that the 90 days is now doable on-line, under Thaksins government was the 90 days checks were reinstated so this is clearly better). But this not about foreigners.. we play a small role.. if any so i go for stability if the red wants to riot let them riot outside of BKK. Wonder if the red members like it if they cause trouble at their doorstep.

Quite smart of them to do it this way and the longer the reds are deprived of funds (no longer in power no longer able to rape the Thai treasury) the less likely it is that they come back unless someone is going to risk a whole lot of money.

Also this whole process should not be rushed.. a good charter should emerge.. not a hastily assembled one.

All this does not mean I agree with all the junta does.. certainly not but I see it as the least bad solution.

Perception rules the world and the junta is using this. Lets take your assumption of them fighting corruption. Look at the assets seized by the government from the people involved in the trafficing, its +-B 110 mil. This trafficing scheme however raked in billions every year, so the question is where is the rest of the money ? If its not in the hands of those caught it must be in someone elses pocket, the question is who ? So they have only scrapped of the bottom layer of the trafficing scheme and they where forced to do it because of leaks about the 3 star generals bank deposits. Do you believe one general can run the trafficing scheme in a military controled area without anyone else in the military knowing about it ?

The taxi's, what have been done ? The cost of taking a taxi from the airport has more than doubled since the changes came about and people are still getting ripped off, people are also getting refused by taxi's. So what has changed ?

Then encroachments, do you think it contribute anything to the division in the country when the military force out poor people from their villages thats biuld on government land ? You must remember that there are in many cases a history behind this encroachment. Way back in the past people was asked to leave forest areas and the government promises them land in return. The people left the forests and was settled in "temporary villages", most however never got their land and are staying in limbo in the "temporary" villages. Some of these people took the law into their own hands and encroached on forest land. Do some research on the land ownership in this country and you will understand that its a ticking time bomb, the rich own 326 times more land than the poor. John Draper wrote an article in the BKK post on 10 June 2015 regarding the economic inequality.

Lets take the beaches, the poor vendors that paid bribes to officials to enable them to do business on the beach was kicked off, but the rich resort owners have entangled the beach encroachment in the courts and they will thus never be kicked off. Again the poor has lost out.

The many others I cant comment on.

The peace on the streets are a perception which will change within the next 18 months. It doesn't help to put a band aid plaster on a bullet wound.

One of the biggest problems ly within the justice system in the country. A while back some judges was kicked out because of corruption but in truth most are corrupt. You must remember that under elected governments the appointment of judges are very sensitive and that governments don't play an active role, but under juntas judges gets put in by the junta. Many of the CC judges was put in by the 2006 coup leaders. This is the reason why many Thai's view the courts as baised.

Then all the high level cases going to court - who are these people ? they are the opponents of the junta and this links in with the previous sentence.

The country is moving everyday closer to the edge and with the coming drought and an international financial crisis ahead we could be in for a very bumpy road.

[Fat Haggis]

Alas, it's all about bangkok isn't it?

How well has the Junta fared in the South qwelling the violence and unrest down there?

How well have they stopped the intimidation and assaults against teachers and government officials?

How much effort has been put in by the Junta to solve a 10 year old problem? Where there have been over 5,000 deaths, as opposed to the political detahs of the Anti Government Protestors?

Despite many people thinking ...but but but but the South hasn't got anything do with the current situation... here's a novel idea, why not fix the shit that has been broken the longest first?

The South is still Thailand, reformation effects the WHOLE country, and that most definately includes the South..

However, like the KADC, I'm very very confident the insurgency in the South will be a thing of the past by 1159 PM on the 31st December 2015 and there will be no more acts of violence there... as that's what the Junta have stated before

You know as well as any that this a hard problem to solve.. one that ignited under Thaksins reign. Does not mean they should not try but bit unfair target to give them.

Actually I don't think it's unfair at all Rob, the Army have been trying for the 10 years, and that includes a period when it was Prayuth at the helm. now it's Udomej it's not like this is something new that's come along

Personally I always think it's a mistake giving ANY timelines on such matter, pretty much the same as the timelines for reforms, how can you say 2 years? they've already had 1 year, are you now saying that the reformation process is now looking towards 4-5 years before completion? You can't give timelines, as people hold you to them, and when you go over them, people get restless, and start saying "but you said" or "but you promised" .. There will be trouble ahead, you know it, I know it, and so do the Junta.

[Orac]

So the key part of this 'brilliant strategy' is to force people to vote yes for a possibly dubious charter so they can have an election. I am sure I have heard about this before somewhere......

[halloween]

Perception rules the world and the junta is using this. Lets take your assumption of them fighting corruption. Look at the assets seized by the government from the people involved in the trafficing, its +-B 110 mil. This trafficing scheme however raked in billions every year, so the question is where is the rest of the money ? If its not in the hands of those caught it must be in someone elses pocket, the question is who ? So they have only scrapped of the bottom layer of the trafficing scheme and they where forced to do it because of leaks about the 3 star generals bank deposits. Do you believe one general can run the trafficing scheme in a military controled area without anyone else in the military knowing about it ?

The taxi's, what have been done ? The cost of taking a taxi from the airport has more than doubled since the changes came about and people are still getting ripped off, people are also getting refused by taxi's. So what has changed ?

Then encroachments, do you think it contribute anything to the division in the country when the military force out poor people from their villages thats biuld on government land ? You must remember that there are in many cases a history behind this encroachment. Way back in the past people was asked to leave forest areas and the government promises them land in return. The people left the forests and was settled in "temporary villages", most however never got their land and are staying in limbo in the "temporary" villages. Some of these people took the law into their own hands and encroached on forest land. Do some research on the land ownership in this country and you will understand that its a ticking time bomb, the rich own 326 times more land than the poor. John Draper wrote an article in the BKK post on 10 June 2015 regarding the economic inequality.

Lets take the beaches, the poor vendors that paid bribes to officials to enable them to do business on the beach was kicked off, but the rich resort owners have entangled the beach encroachment in the courts and they will thus never be kicked off. Again the poor has lost out.

The many others I cant comment on.

The peace on the streets are a perception which will change within the next 18 months. It doesn't help to put a band aid plaster on a bullet wound.

One of the biggest problems ly within the justice system in the country. A while back some judges was kicked out because of corruption but in truth most are corrupt. You must remember that under elected governments the appointment of judges are very sensitive and that governments don't play an active role, but under juntas judges gets put in by the junta. Many of the CC judges was put in by the 2006 coup leaders. This is the reason why many Thai's view the courts as baised.

Then all the high level cases going to court - who are these people ? they are the opponents of the junta and this links in with the previous sentence.

The country is moving everyday closer to the edge and with the coming drought and an international financial crisis ahead we could be in for a very bumpy road.

The fine art of the casual lie. Any proof that trafficking raked in billions? Any proof that the resorts law suits will "never" be resolved? And let's not forget the big one, that the junta appointed the CC judges - they were either appointed due to the position they already held or were appointed judges elected by their peers by secret ballot.

And of course, we can't go without the threat of future violence, twice in this post.

[robblok]

I can't say I am against the junta staying on longer. I finally see them going after stuff like corruption (at least more as the previous government). Doing something about encroachment, the taxi's, the beaches and many other things. No violence on the street no judges being threatened. Finally the law can get a bit of hold in Thailand. Those connected before are slowly but surely being checked for corruption and action taken. I have never before seen so many high level cases going to court. Totally different then when PTP was in power.

For us foreigners nothing much has changed, (except that the 90 days is now doable on-line, under Thaksins government was the 90 days checks were reinstated so this is clearly better). But this not about foreigners.. we play a small role.. if any so i go for stability if the red wants to riot let them riot outside of BKK. Wonder if the red members like it if they cause trouble at their doorstep.

Quite smart of them to do it this way and the longer the reds are deprived of funds (no longer in power no longer able to rape the Thai treasury) the less likely it is that they come back unless someone is going to risk a whole lot of money.

Also this whole process should not be rushed.. a good charter should emerge.. not a hastily assembled one.

All this does not mean I agree with all the junta does.. certainly not but I see it as the least bad solution.

Perception rules the world and the junta is using this. Lets take your assumption of them fighting corruption. Look at the assets seized by the government from the people involved in the trafficing, its +-B 110 mil. This trafficing scheme however raked in billions every year, so the question is where is the rest of the money ? If its not in the hands of those caught it must be in someone elses pocket, the question is who ? So they have only scrapped of the bottom layer of the trafficing scheme and they where forced to do it because of leaks about the 3 star generals bank deposits. Do you believe one general can run the trafficing scheme in a military controled area without anyone else in the military knowing about it ?

The taxi's, what have been done ? The cost of taking a taxi from the airport has more than doubled since the changes came about and people are still getting ripped off, people are also getting refused by taxi's. So what has changed ?

Then encroachments, do you think it contribute anything to the division in the country when the military force out poor people from their villages thats biuld on government land ? You must remember that there are in many cases a history behind this encroachment. Way back in the past people was asked to leave forest areas and the government promises them land in return. The people left the forests and was settled in "temporary villages", most however never got their land and are staying in limbo in the "temporary" villages. Some of these people took the law into their own hands and encroached on forest land. Do some research on the land ownership in this country and you will understand that its a ticking time bomb, the rich own 326 times more land than the poor. John Draper wrote an article in the BKK post on 10 June 2015 regarding the economic inequality.

Lets take the beaches, the poor vendors that paid bribes to officials to enable them to do business on the beach was kicked off, but the rich resort owners have entangled the beach encroachment in the courts and they will thus never be kicked off. Again the poor has lost out.

The many others I cant comment on.

The peace on the streets are a perception which will change within the next 18 months. It doesn't help to put a band aid plaster on a bullet wound.

One of the biggest problems ly within the justice system in the country. A while back some judges was kicked out because of corruption but in truth most are corrupt. You must remember that under elected governments the appointment of judges are very sensitive and that governments don't play an active role, but under juntas judges gets put in by the junta. Many of the CC judges was put in by the 2006 coup leaders. This is the reason why many Thai's view the courts as baised.

Then all the high level cases going to court - who are these people ? they are the opponents of the junta and this links in with the previous sentence.

The country is moving everyday closer to the edge and with the coming drought and an international financial crisis ahead we could be in for a very bumpy road.

Fair points.

Taxi problem, at least now they get fined and action is taken. That is progress it will take time for it all to work out. But its many times better as before when they could rip you off without risk.

Peace on the street is good now so you lost that one. Because there is peace now.. and what will happen in the future nobody knows.. but we do know that lives are saved.. because had this gone on many more would have been killed by the redshirts.

Corruption of judges.. obviously they are not that corrupt they did not take Thaksins bribe. But sure more should be done 100% agreement here.

Land reforms... i see plenty of rich people getting caught too. Sure poor farmers have a problem but they were being illegal. You can't clean stuff up without any problems. I prefer this to doing nothing and watch the forest size dwindle.

The rich beach owners.. they will loose too but at least a big part of the beach has been reclaimed. Again you seem to prefer non action to action because all the problems are not solved right away.

I prefer action and moving slowly in the right way then not doing anything.

[robblok]

Alas, it's all about bangkok isn't it?

How well has the Junta fared in the South qwelling the violence and unrest down there?

How well have they stopped the intimidation and assaults against teachers and government officials?

How much effort has been put in by the Junta to solve a 10 year old problem? Where there have been over 5,000 deaths, as opposed to the political detahs of the Anti Government Protestors?

Despite many people thinking ...but but but but the South hasn't got anything do with the current situation... here's a novel idea, why not fix the shit that has been broken the longest first?

The South is still Thailand, reformation effects the WHOLE country, and that most definately includes the South..

However, like the KADC, I'm very very confident the insurgency in the South will be a thing of the past by 1159 PM on the 31st December 2015 and there will be no more acts of violence there... as that's what the Junta have stated before

You know as well as any that this a hard problem to solve.. one that ignited under Thaksins reign. Does not mean they should not try but bit unfair target to give them.

Actually I don't think it's unfair at all Rob, the Army have been trying for the 10 years, and that includes a period when it was Prayuth at the helm. now it's Udomej it's not like this is something new that's come along

Personally I always think it's a mistake giving ANY timelines on such matter, pretty much the same as the timelines for reforms, how can you say 2 years? they've already had 1 year, are you now saying that the reformation process is now looking towards 4-5 years before completion? You can't give timelines, as people hold you to them, and when you go over them, people get restless, and start saying "but you said" or "but you promised" .. There will be trouble ahead, you know it, I know it, and so do the Junta.

Of course you can't give time lines.. and I hate it when they do that. But it seems to be a Thai thing to do. I mean we will catch the criminal in 1 week.. we will clean up this in 2 weeks ect. Its stupid.. how can you limit the time that is needed to do things properly. But people expect it here. It will be hard to change.

Yes they have been trying so long.. but who says its an army thing and not a political thing. Remember the IRA and how that got solved. That did not happen because of the army it got solved because deals were made. Something like this is hard to solve without a deal (though doing deals might encourage others) Dammed if you dammed if you don''t.

[robblok]

Perception rules the world and the junta is using this. Lets take your assumption of them fighting corruption. Look at the assets seized by the government from the people involved in the trafficing, its +-B 110 mil. This trafficing scheme however raked in billions every year, so the question is where is the rest of the money ? If its not in the hands of those caught it must be in someone elses pocket, the question is who ? So they have only scrapped of the bottom layer of the trafficing scheme and they where forced to do it because of leaks about the 3 star generals bank deposits. Do you believe one general can run the trafficing scheme in a military controled area without anyone else in the military knowing about it ?

The taxi's, what have been done ? The cost of taking a taxi from the airport has more than doubled since the changes came about and people are still getting ripped off, people are also getting refused by taxi's. So what has changed ?

Then encroachments, do you think it contribute anything to the division in the country when the military force out poor people from their villages thats biuld on government land ? You must remember that there are in many cases a history behind this encroachment. Way back in the past people was asked to leave forest areas and the government promises them land in return. The people left the forests and was settled in "temporary villages", most however never got their land and are staying in limbo in the "temporary" villages. Some of these people took the law into their own hands and encroached on forest land. Do some research on the land ownership in this country and you will understand that its a ticking time bomb, the rich own 326 times more land than the poor. John Draper wrote an article in the BKK post on 10 June 2015 regarding the economic inequality.

Lets take the beaches, the poor vendors that paid bribes to officials to enable them to do business on the beach was kicked off, but the rich resort owners have entangled the beach encroachment in the courts and they will thus never be kicked off. Again the poor has lost out.

The many others I cant comment on.

The peace on the streets are a perception which will change within the next 18 months. It doesn't help to put a band aid plaster on a bullet wound.

One of the biggest problems ly within the justice system in the country. A while back some judges was kicked out because of corruption but in truth most are corrupt. You must remember that under elected governments the appointment of judges are very sensitive and that governments don't play an active role, but under juntas judges gets put in by the junta. Many of the CC judges was put in by the 2006 coup leaders. This is the reason why many Thai's view the courts as baised.

Then all the high level cases going to court - who are these people ? they are the opponents of the junta and this links in with the previous sentence.

The country is moving everyday closer to the edge and with the coming drought and an international financial crisis ahead we could be in for a very bumpy road.

The fine art of the casual lie. Any proof that trafficking raked in billions? Any proof that the resorts law suits will "never" be resolved? And let's not forget the big one, that the junta appointed the CC judges - they were either appointed due to the position they already held or were appointed judges elected by their peers by secret ballot.

And of course, we can't go without the threat of future violence, twice in this post.

I forgot about the trafficking reply.

But southernstar is assuming that all the money went up.. not understanding that minions need to get paid too and every level takes its cut. This is spread out over many people at many levels not easy to confiscate at once. Also lots of costs are made too to traffic people. Its not pure proffit and also the investigation is just started.

Strange that he wants no action on all the other points but here he expects the investigation to be done and yield results in a real short time.

[jesimps]

I can't say I am against the junta staying on longer. I finally see them going after stuff like corruption (at least more as the previous government). Doing something about encroachment, the taxi's, the beaches and many other things. No violence on the street no judges being threatened. Finally the law can get a bit of hold in Thailand. Those connected before are slowly but surely being checked for corruption and action taken. I have never before seen so many high level cases going to court. Totally different then when PTP was in power.

For us foreigners nothing much has changed, (except that the 90 days is now doable on-line, under Thaksins government was the 90 days checks were reinstated so this is clearly better). But this not about foreigners.. we play a small role.. if any so i go for stability if the red wants to riot let them riot outside of BKK. Wonder if the red members like it if they cause trouble at their doorstep.

Quite smart of them to do it this way and the longer the reds are deprived of funds (no longer in power no longer able to rape the Thai treasury) the less likely it is that they come back unless someone is going to risk a whole lot of money.

Also this whole process should not be rushed.. a good charter should emerge.. not a hastily assembled one.

All this does not mean I agree with all the junta does.. certainly not but I see it as the least bad solution.

Strange. Never seen you once disagree with them.

[graft]

I'm not sure if there is such a job as headline writer (as opposed to journalist) but there is a growing tendency in recent times for the headline not to reflect the content that it highlights.

Just yesterday there was the "Defense Min says no violence to be used against political groups" headline followed by a story quoting that very same Defense Minister as actually saying that the authorities did not wish to use violence to maintain law and order and that "they would rather make them understand the current situation", the inference being "however we will if we need to".

So here we have a military "government" with absolute power manipulating what should be a straightforward referendum question (singular) about whether or not the proposed referendum should be taken up ( with, incidentally, no definition of what happens if it is rejected) into a "win win" situation for the military junta and their backers.

Hardly a "Masterstoke" is it? It's just a display of absolute power.

Edited June 12, 2015 by graft

[empireboy]

Apparently (benevolent) dictatorship trumps all other forms of government. If you judge by outcomes then this team is doing better than most have done previously.

[Yunla]

As I've said before, I like the current situation because of the peace and security, the actions against corruption and the focus on getting Thailand back on track. It would be insanely arrogant for any observer to state that they could have inherited the same chaotic tangled situation a few years ago, and they'd have it all shipshape by now.

I view this from a macro perspective in terms of direction and pace. I would argue that the direction a few years ago was backwards at a sprinting pace. Now it is currently heading forwards at a slow ambling pace. I see this as a great improvement, and I pray that Thailand will one day be sprinting forwards.

[h90]

I can't say I am against the junta staying on longer. I finally see them going after stuff like corruption (at least more as the previous government). Doing something about encroachment, the taxi's, the beaches and many other things. No violence on the street no judges being threatened. Finally the law can get a bit of hold in Thailand. Those connected before are slowly but surely being checked for corruption and action taken. I have never before seen so many high level cases going to court. Totally different then when PTP was in power.

For us foreigners nothing much has changed, (except that the 90 days is now doable on-line, under Thaksins government was the 90 days checks were reinstated so this is clearly better). But this not about foreigners.. we play a small role.. if any so i go for stability if the red wants to riot let them riot outside of BKK. Wonder if the red members like it if they cause trouble at their doorstep.

Quite smart of them to do it this way and the longer the reds are deprived of funds (no longer in power no longer able to rape the Thai treasury) the less likely it is that they come back unless someone is going to risk a whole lot of money.

Also this whole process should not be rushed.. a good charter should emerge.. not a hastily assembled one.

All this does not mean I agree with all the junta does.. certainly not but I see it as the least bad solution.

You simply don't get it, do you ??

You think that cleaning a few beaches, fixing the taxi ranks (sort of fixed) and the all important lottery pricing are the way forward?

Those are low hanging fruits, easy to pick and parade for the sheep!!

For good measure throw in a purge against political opponents, and if nothing else works, charge them with LM !!

>> if any so i go for stability if the red wants to riot let them riot outside of BKK. Wonder if the red members like it if they cause trouble at their doorstep<<

So your hatred for the PTP, all comes down to, that the pesky demonstrators inconvenienced Khun Robbie on his way to work??

Don't you think that the majority of Thai voters are "inconvenienced" by over and over again see their

constitutionally cast votes voided by the army and/or the judiciary??

Yes Thailand needs reforms, but not at gunpoint!!

Let the voters decide, who they want to steal from them...............

I don't understand your posting: The previous governments didn't even do the simple things (low hanging fruits) this government does it.

These political opponents: Thaksin cronies and communists (Dr. Weng, etc) who raped the country and were corrupt without limits, did vote buying and in some cases even ordered violence.....yes purge them, better today than tomorrow.....in every functional democracy the police and courts would take them.

[h90]

I can't say I am against the junta staying on longer. I finally see them going after stuff like corruption (at least more as the previous government). Doing something about encroachment, the taxi's, the beaches and many other things. No violence on the street no judges being threatened. Finally the law can get a bit of hold in Thailand. Those connected before are slowly but surely being checked for corruption and action taken. I have never before seen so many high level cases going to court. Totally different then when PTP was in power.

For us foreigners nothing much has changed, (except that the 90 days is now doable on-line, under Thaksins government was the 90 days checks were reinstated so this is clearly better). But this not about foreigners.. we play a small role.. if any so i go for stability if the red wants to riot let them riot outside of BKK. Wonder if the red members like it if they cause trouble at their doorstep.

Quite smart of them to do it this way and the longer the reds are deprived of funds (no longer in power no longer able to rape the Thai treasury) the less likely it is that they come back unless someone is going to risk a whole lot of money.

Also this whole process should not be rushed.. a good charter should emerge.. not a hastily assembled one.

All this does not mean I agree with all the junta does.. certainly not but I see it as the least bad solution.

To add: If they rush things like the Surayud government, we'll have the same mess again in somewhere 3-5 years. Better let the government stay 2-5 more years and have the swamp dried up. A lot things will change when the Thaksin cronies finally recognize that he won't come back this time.

[robblok]

I can't say I am against the junta staying on longer. I finally see them going after stuff like corruption (at least more as the previous government). Doing something about encroachment, the taxi's, the beaches and many other things. No violence on the street no judges being threatened. Finally the law can get a bit of hold in Thailand. Those connected before are slowly but surely being checked for corruption and action taken. I have never before seen so many high level cases going to court. Totally different then when PTP was in power.

For us foreigners nothing much has changed, (except that the 90 days is now doable on-line, under Thaksins government was the 90 days checks were reinstated so this is clearly better). But this not about foreigners.. we play a small role.. if any so i go for stability if the red wants to riot let them riot outside of BKK. Wonder if the red members like it if they cause trouble at their doorstep.

Quite smart of them to do it this way and the longer the reds are deprived of funds (no longer in power no longer able to rape the Thai treasury) the less likely it is that they come back unless someone is going to risk a whole lot of money.

Also this whole process should not be rushed.. a good charter should emerge.. not a hastily assembled one.

All this does not mean I agree with all the junta does.. certainly not but I see it as the least bad solution.

To add: If they rush things like the Surayud government, we'll have the same mess again in somewhere 3-5 years. Better let the government stay 2-5 more years and have the swamp dried up. A lot things will change when the Thaksin cronies finally recognize that he won't come back this time.

Yes the longer the Thaksin side is out of power the more their grip and resources dwindle. Also all their bad deeds surface and can be prosecuted without fear. A few extra years of junta would really destroy the corruption on the PTP side. ( i won't make a comment on the army side as I really don't know however the next government can and should investigate them)

Unfortunately this is the way how it goes here whatever side is in power will go after corruption on the previous side. Its not good but better as nothing. So its bad if one side stays too long in power as then their crimes go unpunished. And yes.. if army is corrupt they should be punished too.

Edited June 12, 2015 by robblok

[Just1Voice]

"And yes... if - the army IS corrupt they should be punished too."

[Fat Haggis]

Perception rules the world and the junta is using this. Lets take your assumption of them fighting corruption. Look at the assets seized by the government from the people involved in the trafficing, its +-B 110 mil. This trafficing scheme however raked in billions every year, so the question is where is the rest of the money ? If its not in the hands of those caught it must be in someone elses pocket, the question is who ? So they have only scrapped of the bottom layer of the trafficing scheme and they where forced to do it because of leaks about the 3 star generals bank deposits. Do you believe one general can run the trafficing scheme in a military controled area without anyone else in the military knowing about it ?

The taxi's, what have been done ? The cost of taking a taxi from the airport has more than doubled since the changes came about and people are still getting ripped off, people are also getting refused by taxi's. So what has changed ?

Then encroachments, do you think it contribute anything to the division in the country when the military force out poor people from their villages thats biuld on government land ? You must remember that there are in many cases a history behind this encroachment. Way back in the past people was asked to leave forest areas and the government promises them land in return. The people left the forests and was settled in "temporary villages", most however never got their land and are staying in limbo in the "temporary" villages. Some of these people took the law into their own hands and encroached on forest land. Do some research on the land ownership in this country and you will understand that its a ticking time bomb, the rich own 326 times more land than the poor. John Draper wrote an article in the BKK post on 10 June 2015 regarding the economic inequality.

Lets take the beaches, the poor vendors that paid bribes to officials to enable them to do business on the beach was kicked off, but the rich resort owners have entangled the beach encroachment in the courts and they will thus never be kicked off. Again the poor has lost out.

The many others I cant comment on.

The peace on the streets are a perception which will change within the next 18 months. It doesn't help to put a band aid plaster on a bullet wound.

One of the biggest problems ly within the justice system in the country. A while back some judges was kicked out because of corruption but in truth most are corrupt. You must remember that under elected governments the appointment of judges are very sensitive and that governments don't play an active role, but under juntas judges gets put in by the junta. Many of the CC judges was put in by the 2006 coup leaders. This is the reason why many Thai's view the courts as baised.

Then all the high level cases going to court - who are these people ? they are the opponents of the junta and this links in with the previous sentence.

The country is moving everyday closer to the edge and with the coming drought and an international financial crisis ahead we could be in for a very bumpy road.

The fine art of the casual lie. Any proof that trafficking raked in billions? Any proof that the resorts law suits will "never" be resolved? And let's not forget the big one, that the junta appointed the CC judges - they were either appointed due to the position they already held or were appointed judges elected by their peers by secret ballot.

And of course, we can't go without the threat of future violence, twice in this post.

If you joined the dots as to what has gone on behind the scenes and who has been arrested you will know that all these Southern Issues are connected and that it goes up very high, much higher than the ones behind bars and about to be.

The fuel scams and smuggling et all, are all connected, so yes, Billions were made, maybe even Trillions.

How much money was being made by the BIB on Koh Tao prior to the murders last year? Not so much on the trafficking side, but the immigration side, and as you well know, they go hand in hand

[billd766]

I can't say I am against the junta staying on longer. I finally see them going after stuff like corruption (at least more as the previous government). Doing something about encroachment, the taxi's, the beaches and many other things. No violence on the street no judges being threatened. Finally the law can get a bit of hold in Thailand. Those connected before are slowly but surely being checked for corruption and action taken. I have never before seen so many high level cases going to court. Totally different then when PTP was in power.

For us foreigners nothing much has changed, (except that the 90 days is now doable on-line, under Thaksins government was the 90 days checks were reinstated so this is clearly better). But this not about foreigners.. we play a small role.. if any so i go for stability if the red wants to riot let them riot outside of BKK. Wonder if the red members like it if they cause trouble at their doorstep.

Quite smart of them to do it this way and the longer the reds are deprived of funds (no longer in power no longer able to rape the Thai treasury) the less likely it is that they come back unless someone is going to risk a whole lot of money.

Also this whole process should not be rushed.. a good charter should emerge.. not a hastily assembled one.

All this does not mean I agree with all the junta does.. certainly not but I see it as the least bad solution.

You simply don't get it, do you ??

You think that cleaning a few beaches, fixing the taxi ranks (sort of fixed) and the all important lottery pricing are the way forward?

Those are low hanging fruits, easy to pick and parade for the sheep!!

For good measure throw in a purge against political opponents, and if nothing else works, charge them with LM !!

>> if any so i go for stability if the red wants to riot let them riot outside of BKK. Wonder if the red members like it if they cause trouble at their doorstep<<

So your hatred for the PTP, all comes down to, that the pesky demonstrators inconvenienced Khun Robbie on his way to work??

Don't you think that the majority of Thai voters are "inconvenienced" by over and over again see their

constitutionally cast votes voided by the army and/or the judiciary??

Yes Thailand needs reforms, but not at gunpoint!!

Let the voters decide, who they want to steal from them...............

Can I ask you a simple question?

quote"

Don't you think that the majority of Thai voters are "inconvenienced" by over and over again see their

constitutionally cast votes voided by the army and/or the judiciary??"

Do you know the majority of Thai voters and if you do have you spoken to more than 10 or 20 of them and asked what they want?

IIRC there are something like 43 or 44 milion Thai voters in the country so to make you statement you must have spoken to a lot of Thais.

Out here in rural Thailand life goes on just the way it always does whichever government is in power and from the 10 or so Thais I have spoken to outside of my family and friends nobody seems to care what is going on in Bangkok.

What they are concerned about is when will it rain enough for the government water to come back, how will we survive without rain for the crops of whatever we are growing, will we have enough to eat, will my wife keep her job, are the children on drugs or pregnant. THOSE are the things that rural voters care about, and THEY are the majority in the North, South, East and West.

Elections come around every so often, politicians, agent, the Pu Yai Ban etc give us some money to vote so we vote for one side or the other until the next time. They get promised all manner of wonderful things, some of which they actually get but the one constant thing for rural voters is that it really doesn't matter WHO is in power as the voters will be screwed by every side, every time.

No natter what you, I, the USA, UK, EU or any other foreigner wants for the Thai people, NONE of us really know what Thais want and even if we did, Thailand and the Thai people will do it their way.