Israel report backs Gaza war actions

[Jingthing]

I never believe a word Israel or it's supporters says.

Why?

[Steely Dan]

I never believe a word Israel or it's supporters says.

Of course not, presumably you believe the likes of this Muslim spokesman though, he must be authoritative as he often appears on the BBC.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/11673700/Muslim-campaigner-Zionists-crept-into-my-home-and-stole-my-shoe.html

[bbbcorp]

I never believe a word Israel or it's supporters says.

Of course not, presumably you believe the likes of this Muslim spokesman though, he must be authoritative as he often appears on the BBC.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/11673700/Muslim-campaigner-Zionists-crept-into-my-home-and-stole-my-shoe.html

Two wrongs do not make one right....

[Steely Dan]

I never believe a word Israel or it's supporters says.

Why?

He probably forgot to exclude Haaretz, Noam Chomsky or any other Jew who disapproves of Israel, well it's useful to be able to Kosher wash your anti-Israel obsession once in a while.

[Ulysses G.]

Hamas instead replied the early hostilities with firing 3.500 rockets to Israel.

Hamas was shooting rockets all along and no country on earth would put up with it. There is no reason that Israel should either. Hamas can blame itself for Israel's response and the Palestinian people that purposely elected a Islamic terrorist group to represent them.

Pure statistical observation:

Hamas started 14 years shooting 12.000 rockets to Israel from 2001 till now. Which I condemn as a war crime too.

Total tragic casualities in the history of unlawful rocket and mortar attacks from Gaza into Israel : 44.

Civilians : 30

Soldiers : 14

It looks like the Palestinians need to stop the terrorist rocket attacks. They are losing and Israel is justified in responding as heavily as they need to to stop them completely/

Edited June 16, 2015 by Ulysses G.

[Ulysses G.]

Hamas have the avowed aim of getting rid of Israel, there are no actions the Israelis could have made to change this save for jumping in the sea themselves.

So kill kids? That seems to be what you're saying.

Hamas have renounced that very old bit in their charter.

That is a lie and one you have been informed about numerous times. Hamas have NEVER renounced their charter. A few individual members have suggested that it is no longer relevant, because of political considerations.

No Hamas representative has ever renounced the charter; Hamas leaders not only reiterate the charter's precepts calling for an Islamic caliphate in all of Israel, but view it as the first step to worldwide Islamic rule.

Some recent examples evidencing how Hamas adheres to its charter:

1. "Palestinians mark 'Naqba Day' this year with great hope of bringing to an end the Zionist project in Palestine." (Hamas leader Ismail Haniyeh, at a May 15, 2011 speech marking Israel's creation)

2. "Our aim is to establish a free and completely sovereign Palestinian state in the West Bank and the Gaza Strip, whose capital is Jerusalem, without any settlers and without giving up a single inch of land and without giving up on right of return...Our common enemy is Israel. Israel must be fought both with force and through diplomacy." (Hamas leader Khaled Mashaal, Hamas-Fatah reconciliation agreement signing in Cairo, May 4, 2011)

http://www.camera.org/index.asp?x_context=7&x_issue=20&x_article=1618

Khaled_Meshaal]Khaled Meshaal stated that the Charter is "a piece of history and no longer relevant, but cannot be changed for internal reasons."

BTW...I resent being called a liar.

You have claimed that Hamas have renounced their charter and they have NOT.Your own source proves that you are wrong and this has been pointed out to you before. Hamas has NEVER renounced their charter. The man you have quoted says that it "CAN NOT BE CHANGED". He is well known liar and a terrorist, but he is telling the truth about that. If you do not like having fabrications pointed out, quit posting blatant lies that have been disproved repeatedly on this forum already.

Edited June 16, 2015 by Ulysses G.

[Steely Dan]

I never believe a word Israel or it's supporters says.

Of course not, presumably you believe the likes of this Muslim spokesman though, he must be authoritative as he often appears on the BBC.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/11673700/Muslim-campaigner-Zionists-crept-into-my-home-and-stole-my-shoe.html

Two wrongs do not make one right....

Indeed I can see the equivalence in credibility between eleven independent military experts and some bloke who thinks Mossad breaks into his house at night to steal one of his shoes.

[Seastallion]

So kill kids? That seems to be what you're saying.

Hamas have renounced that very old bit in their charter.

That is a lie and one you have been informed about numerous times. Hamas have NEVER renounced their charter. A few individual members have suggested that it is no longer relevant, because of political considerations.

No Hamas representative has ever renounced the charter; Hamas leaders not only reiterate the charter's precepts calling for an Islamic caliphate in all of Israel, but view it as the first step to worldwide Islamic rule.

Some recent examples evidencing how Hamas adheres to its charter:

1. "Palestinians mark 'Naqba Day' this year with great hope of bringing to an end the Zionist project in Palestine." (Hamas leader Ismail Haniyeh, at a May 15, 2011 speech marking Israel's creation)

2. "Our aim is to establish a free and completely sovereign Palestinian state in the West Bank and the Gaza Strip, whose capital is Jerusalem, without any settlers and without giving up a single inch of land and without giving up on right of return...Our common enemy is Israel. Israel must be fought both with force and through diplomacy." (Hamas leader Khaled Mashaal, Hamas-Fatah reconciliation agreement signing in Cairo, May 4, 2011)

http://www.camera.org/index.asp?x_context=7&x_issue=20&x_article=1618

Khaled_Meshaal]Khaled Meshaal stated that the Charter is "a piece of history and no longer relevant, but cannot be changed for internal reasons."

BTW...I resent being called a liar.

You have claimed that Hamas have renounced their charter and they have NOT.Your own source proves that you are wrong and this has been pointed out to you before. Hamas has NEVER renounced their charter. The man you have quoted says that it "CAN NOT BE CHANGED". He is well known liar and a terrorist, but he is telling the truth about that. If you do not like having fabrications pointed out, quit posting blatant lies that have been disproved repeatedly on this forum already.

You have edited my post to create spin...against forum rules again.

I am not going to be led off-topic by your spin and off-topic post.

[boomerangutang]

It makes more sense, then, to suppose that there are political rationales for the firing of rockets and mortars. For both camps !

This is how I see it in a nutshell: there are some wild-eyed radicals in Gaza who somehow get some small missiles to shoot over the border in the direction of Israeli towns. They're prime motivation seems to be ( provoking confrontation, and ( getting their ya yas out (getting their kicks, like little kids popping fireworks when daddy says don't do it). Hamas appears to be the top authority in Gaza, but can't keep the punks from shooting missiles. Is it from lack of willingness, or inability, or.....?

Israel appears to have a blanket policy, something like: "Don't fire any weapons in our direction. Any weapons fired will be responded to stongly by our IDF. Is that clear?"

Many in the int'l community think the response is too harsh. But a tamer response doesn't stop the missiles, and even a strong response only dampens the attacks against Israel somewhat, but not 100%. As long as Gazan punks are allowed or enabled to toss missiles over the border, all Gazans will be in grave danger. The militant punks have to figure it out: do they want to cause harm to their own people or not?

[Linky]

It makes more sense, then, to suppose that there are political rationales for the firing of rockets and mortars. For both camps !

This is how I see it in a nutshell: there are some wild-eyed radicals in Gaza who somehow get some small missiles to shoot over the border in the direction of Israeli towns. They're prime motivation seems to be ( provoking confrontation, and ( getting their ya yas out (getting their kicks, like little kids popping fireworks when daddy says don't do it). Hamas appears to be the top authority in Gaza, but can't keep the punks from shooting missiles. Is it from lack of willingness, or inability, or.....?

Israel appears to have a blanket policy, something like: "Don't fire any weapons in our direction. Any weapons fired will be responded to stongly by our IDF. Is that clear?"

Many in the int'l community think the response is too harsh. But a tamer response doesn't stop the missiles, and even a strong response only dampens the attacks against Israel somewhat, but not 100%. As long as Gazan punks are allowed or enabled to toss missiles over the border, all Gazans will be in grave danger. The militant punks have to figure it out: do they want to cause harm to their own people or not?

Yeah must be terrifying having rockets land in a field. Must go murder some kids as payback.

No one really cares about the Israel report. Its what the ICC does that matters.

[Ulysses G.]

Yeah must be terrifying having rockets land in a field.

More lies. The attacks have killed 50 people, injured more than 1900 people and caused widespread psychological trauma and disruption of daily life among the Israeli populace as well as lots of property damage. No country on earth woulds allow terrorist scum like Hamas to fire thousands of rockets at them.

Edited June 17, 2015 by Ulysses G.

[Wat dee]

Judging by the vast volume of anti-semitic post on this thread. Just tells me that most Thai expats are stupid.

Most just have heart ,brain and foreskin.

[dexterm]

Yeah must be terrifying having rockets land in a field.

More lies. The attacks have killed 50 people, injured more than 1900 people and caused widespread psychological trauma and disruption of daily life among the Israeli populace as well as lots of property damage. No country on earth woulds allow terrorist scum like Hamas to fire thousands of rockets at them.

As usual you mendaciously muddy the waters and the timeline. In the 6 weeks before last year's Gaza conflict which started on June 12 less than one rocket per week had fallen harmlessly despite extreme Israeli provocation with several targeted killings and 2 Palestinian youths cold blooded shot in the back during demonstrations.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Palestinian_rocket_attacks_on_Israel,_2014#May

It was an opportunity for Israel to discuss an extended ceasefire and a gradual lifting of the Gaza blockade. So what Netanyahu do?

When 3 Israeli teens were abducted by lone wolf perpetrators on June 12, Netanyahu uttered his infamous "Hamas is responsible" without a shred of evidence just as he did again recently. Israeli then provocatively smashed up Palestinian homes, and unnecessarily rounded up hundreds of Hamas members, launched air strikes... and that is when Hamas started retaliating as best they could against the might of Israel.

Edited June 18, 2015 by dexterm

[Ulysses G.]

Stupid argument. Who cares how many rockets were fired for a few weeks? Almost 200 and mortars rockets were fired in the proceeding months causing deaths, injuries, psychological trauma and property damage. Any nation would respond to these kind of cowardly terrorist attacks and Hamas has only themselves to blame.

[Linky]

Yeah must be terrifying having rockets land in a field.

More lies. The attacks have killed 50 people, injured more than 1900 people and caused widespread psychological trauma and disruption of daily life among the Israeli populace as well as lots of property damage. No country on earth woulds allow terrorist scum like Hamas to fire thousands of rockets at them.

Then its tme Israel changed its attitude because the current way they do things isn't working.

[Linky]

Stupid argument. Who cares how many rockets were fired for a few weeks? Almost 200 and mortars rockets were fired in the proceeding months causing deaths, injuries, psychological trauma and property damage. Any nation would respond to these kind of cowardly terrorist attacks and Hamas has only themselves to blame.

Hmm such interesting logic.

Israel being bombed a lot, do nothing. Bombs all but stop, must go on a rampage. Yep thats bright ?

[Ulysses G.]

More lies. The rockets NEVER stopped. They slowed down for a few weeks.

[Linky]

More lies. The rockets NEVER stopped. They slowed down for a few weeks.

Please learn to read. I never said they stopped. Yet another apology that you won't give for wrongly calling someone a liar, you getting quite good at that.

The rockets all but stopped for a few weeks, until Israel decided it needed a rampage. Why would Israel do that when they consistently say they want the rockets to stop and then when they do slow to a trickle they go on a rampage to inflame things.

Its clear they dont want it to stop, its suits their agenda to keep it going so they can blast away and eventually claim the land in the whole region.

But getting back on topic, Israel murdered those kids, pure and simple and no one cares what is in their report. They are too scared to release the footage and transcript.

[Seastallion]

Stupid argument. Who cares how many rockets were fired for a few weeks? Almost 200 and mortars rockets were fired in the proceeding months causing deaths, injuries, psychological trauma and property damage. Any nation would respond to these kind of cowardly terrorist attacks and Hamas has only themselves to blame.

Using your reasoning, the Palestinians have every right to respond to Israeli aggression upon Palestinian civilians. Far more deaths, far more injuries, and a whole lot more mental trauma is suffered by Palestinians due to Israeli actions.

[Scott]

Inflammatory posts removed.

[Jingthing]

Some background on Israel's actions during the recent Gaza war:

From the audio clip, interview with retired Australian Major General Jim Molan :

SOPHIE MCNEILL: The conclusion your delegation drew was that Israel had met a reasonable international standard of observance of the laws of armed conflict.
JIM MOLAN: And in fact our conclusion was that they exceeded it quite dramatically.

SOPHIE MCNEILL: How did they exceed it dramatically?

JIM MOLAN: By the fact that they held off for as long as they could in the face of provocation, that represented war crimes in my view.

Israel’s air attacks were carefully planned and executed.

We’ve all seen reports about the amount of messaging they do, the amount of ringing to make sure civilians are out of the way.

As someone who has practically applied the laws of armed conflict in modern warfare, I was very impressed.

http://mpegmedia.abc.net.au/news/audio/twt/201506/20150615-twt10-gazamolan.mp3

Edited June 18, 2015 by Jingthing

[Seastallion]

Some background on Israel's actions during the recent Gaza war:

From the audio clip, interview with retired Australian Major General Jim Molan :

SOPHIE MCNEILL: The conclusion your delegation drew was that Israel had met a reasonable international standard of observance of the laws of armed conflict.

JIM MOLAN: And in fact our conclusion was that they exceeded it quite dramatically.

SOPHIE MCNEILL: How did they exceed it dramatically?

JIM MOLAN: By the fact that they held off for as long as they could in the face of provocation, that represented war crimes in my view.

Israel’s air attacks were carefully planned and executed.

We’ve all seen reports about the amount of messaging they do, the amount of ringing to make sure civilians are out of the way.

As someone who has practically applied the laws of armed conflict in modern warfare, I was very impressed.

http://mpegmedia.abc.net.au/news/audio/twt/201506/20150615-twt10-gazamolan.mp3

Their air attacks, eh? well I'm not so sure about that, but nevertheless, what about their artillery attacks, ground attacks and, as we've seen with the boys on the beach, how about their naval attacks?

[Thorgal]

Some background on Israel's actions during the recent Gaza war:

From the audio clip, interview with retired Australian Major General Jim Molan :

SOPHIE MCNEILL: The conclusion your delegation drew was that Israel had met a reasonable international standard of observance of the laws of armed conflict.

JIM MOLAN: And in fact our conclusion was that they exceeded it quite dramatically.

SOPHIE MCNEILL: How did they exceed it dramatically?

JIM MOLAN: By the fact that they held off for as long as they could in the face of provocation, that represented war crimes in my view.

Israel’s air attacks were carefully planned and executed.

We’ve all seen reports about the amount of messaging they do, the amount of ringing to make sure civilians are out of the way.

As someone who has practically applied the laws of armed conflict in modern warfare, I was very impressed.

Thanks for the 'Molan declaration' !

But how can he advise and make declarations on a war that he has not been present or participated?

[Jingthing]

I have only posted a snippet.

Suggest people listen to the entire audio clip.

I don't feel obligated to respond to every baiting question.

The clip speaks for itself.

[up-country_sinclair]

Israel report backs Gaza war actions

Shocking.

Soon enough we'll probably have this headline:

Israel agrees with Israel's report backing Israel's actions in Gaza.

Stay tuned for future developments to this news event.

[Seastallion]

Some background on Israel's actions during the recent Gaza war:

From the audio clip, interview with retired Australian Major General Jim Molan :

SOPHIE MCNEILL: The conclusion your delegation drew was that Israel had met a reasonable international standard of observance of the laws of armed conflict.

JIM MOLAN: And in fact our conclusion was that they exceeded it quite dramatically.

SOPHIE MCNEILL: How did they exceed it dramatically?

JIM MOLAN: By the fact that they held off for as long as they could in the face of provocation, that represented war crimes in my view.

Israel’s air attacks were carefully planned and executed.

We’ve all seen reports about the amount of messaging they do, the amount of ringing to make sure civilians are out of the way.

As someone who has practically applied the laws of armed conflict in modern warfare, I was very impressed.

http://mpegmedia.abc.net.au/news/audio/twt/201506/20150615-twt10-gazamolan.mp3

So, Jim Molan....."we've all seen reports..." Yes we have. Are those reports true? How can you use, "We've all seen reports.." as a basis for your conclusions? We have seen reports of boys killed on a beach...we all have also seen actual footage (not just "reports" but actual footage) of white phosphorous spewing indiscriminately out of helicopter gunships over densely populated areas.... So, just where are the war crimes in your opinion?

You were impressed? I am impressed that your blithe indifference to the bigger picture, the truer picture, gets any coverage or traction.

[Thorgal]

I have only posted a snippet.

Suggest people listen to the entire audio clip.

I don't feel obligated to respond to every baiting question.

The clip speaks for itself.

Jim Molan was pro-Israel since 2009 when he commented the Goldstone report publicly without representing any authority...

Quote from link :

http://www.theaustralian.com.au/news/world/uns-bias-binds-gaza/story-e6frg6ux-1225781825529

"I probably do not need to state for most readers that as a soldier who has run a war against an opponent not dissimilar to Hamas, facing problems perhaps similar to those faced by Israeli commanders, my sympathies tend to lie with the Israelis."

OP refers to an identical report of foreign military advisers who promptly support Israel before and after the 2014 Gaza war.

Again, another biased source...

Edited June 18, 2015 by Thorgal

[dexterm]

I have only posted a snippet.

Suggest people listen to the entire audio clip.

I don't feel obligated to respond to every baiting question.

The clip speaks for itself.

Jim Molan was pro-Israel since 2009 when he commented the Goldstone report publicly without representing any authority...

Quote from link :

http://www.theaustralian.com.au/news/world/uns-bias-binds-gaza/story-e6frg6ux-1225781825529

"I probably do not need to state for most readers that as a soldier who has run a war against an opponent not dissimilar to Hamas, facing problems perhaps similar to those faced by Israeli commanders, my sympathies tend to lie with the Israelis."

OP refers to an identical report of foreign military advisers who promptly support Israel before and after the 2014 Gaza war.

Again, another biased source...

Yes, a biased source indeed.

Not hard to do a spot of Google sleuthing to discover who Moran's paymasters are.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jim_Molan#Publications

... the Lowy Institute and The Australian newspaper

The quiet benefactor: Lowy's close ties with Israel

http://www.smh.com.au/business/the-quiet-benefactor-lowys-close-ties-with-israel-20080928-4ppd.html

And we all know who owns the Australian...same guy that owns Fox News...Rupert!

[boomerangutang]

Stupid argument. Who cares how many rockets were fired for a few weeks? Almost 200 and mortars rockets were fired in the proceeding months causing deaths, injuries, psychological trauma and property damage. Any nation would respond to these kind of cowardly terrorist attacks and Hamas has only themselves to blame.

Using your reasoning, the Palestinians have every right to respond to Israeli aggression upon Palestinian civilians. Far more deaths, far more injuries, and a whole lot more mental trauma is suffered by Palestinians due to Israeli actions.

That's one of the lessons a person learns, usually by 5 years old. If you pick a fight with someone stronger than you, you'll probably get hurt worse than the bigger guy. Same reason why Tibet is not actively fighting China's occupation of its country. It's resisting in other ways, but to try and toss bombs at the Chinese would only result in a heavy response from China's PLA.

[dexterm]

Stupid argument. Who cares how many rockets were fired for a few weeks? Almost 200 and mortars rockets were fired in the proceeding months causing deaths, injuries, psychological trauma and property damage. Any nation would respond to these kind of cowardly terrorist attacks and Hamas has only themselves to blame.

Using your reasoning, the Palestinians have every right to respond to Israeli aggression upon Palestinian civilians. Far more deaths, far more injuries, and a whole lot more mental trauma is suffered by Palestinians due to Israeli actions.

That's one of the lessons a person learns, usually by 5 years old. If you pick a fight with someone stronger than you, you'll probably get hurt worse than the bigger guy. Same reason why Tibet is not actively fighting China's occupation of its country. It's resisting in other ways, but to try and toss bombs at the Chinese would only result in a heavy response from China's PLA.

It depends whether you believe that might is always right, and that it's preferable to simply roll over and accept oppression.

I believe that evil triumphs when good men do nothing.

IMHO I believe that Palestinians would gain more by using non violent passive resistance like Gandhi and Martin Luther King especially in this age of instant social and international media. Simply flood cyberspace with images of the daily humiliations, beatings and murders they experience at the hands of the occupying Israelis.Shame Israel before the world.

Allow Israel to muddle along managing the conflict assuming the world will continue to turn a blind eye all the while painting itself into a corner of a one state solution, while Palestinians are winning the peace offensive.