Att: Americans on Social Security.

[jjczap]

Yes, it does appear the guy in Manila gave us bad info.

Perhaps SSA does know that some addresses are commercial mail forwarding addresses. But our MagicJack number has a Miami area code, same as our mail forwarder. The only thing is that we don't have the MagicJack plugged in & operational all the time; we just use the voicemail function and then return calls after we listen to the voice mail, but I don't expect that would have been a problem.

Oh well, what's done is done. Frankly, if/when we have problems with Social Security our default is to go rattle the cage at the CM Consulate and the only people they know to contact are those in Manila, so it's probably just as well Hubby started his SS with Manila.

We haven't been back to the U.S. since moving to Thailand almost 8 years ago and if we return, it will probably be "for good" and probably not to Florida, so there really wasn't much point in making SS think we lived in Florida.

Nancy first I appreciate all you efforts - I read a lot on TV but only say something when it catches my interest -- so you say whats the point to make it like we live in Florida - let me give you a few points - one there is no state income tax so you don't have to deal with that issue and only deal with your obligations with the IRS as you are here - two Medicare does not cover out side US - but with a US address say Florida you can purchase a Medicare advantage plan in that state that covers emergencies outside the US - so a heart attack, stroke . broken led etc is covered under the plan under US pay schedules but you must have plan b Medicare - I have a Advantage plan that I pay 0$ a month premium - they are avalable from United Health Care Atena ect so for those expats that are scared of med bills here it is a wonderful option -- plus you have SS direct deposit into say Fidelity or Schwab and transfer into BKK bank thru BKK bank NY and you don't have to deal with are you still alive - you are in control

I thought it was illegal to keep a medicare part C (advantage) or part D if you are outside the US?

I bet if they find out you do not live in FL they very likely deny the claim.

Wow - were did I mention part c or d -- I said part b and with a legal address in the US you can purchase a commercially availably policy from United Health Atena ect that will cover emergencies outside US - it is commonly referred to as a Medicare Advantage plan it is an ad on to Medicare - you are a resident of the US traveling

[BKKSnowBird]

Advantage plan is part C. Rx is part D.

I think you have a supplement policy, not advantage.

If you have an Advantage policy and live outside the US then you are breaking the law.

Edited July 12, 2015 by BKKSnowBird

[BKKSnowBird]

Some of the suplemental or gap policies do cover travel emergencies outside the US with a lifetime cap but I also bet they could get out of paying a claim if they find out you live in Thailand.

[jjczap]

Some of the suplemental or gap policies do cover travel emergencies outside the US with a lifetime cap but I also bet they could get out of paying a claim if they find out you live in Thailand.

Man O Man sometimes I think you guys have been here to long - one more time LEGAL ADDRESS IS USA - google or bing Medicare Advantage plans - a supplemental to Medicare - you cannot buy these plans without a Legal US address -- SOOOOO if you have an emergency outside the USA you are covered you are traveling outside the US covered anywhere in the world --- sooo you can live here but your legal residence is the USA

[BKKSnowBird]

I do not think having a mailbox in Miami is going to count as a "legal residence". You may be a citizen of the USA but not a resident. LEGALLY, I believe it comes down to how many days you live in FL and how many days you are "traveling".

You know this and that is why you don't want the SSA to know you live in Thailand.

Big difference between an Advantage plan and a suplement/gap plan. An Advantage plan is like an HMO for the area you live. I did just google it and it is illegal to have this plan if you do not live there.

Edited July 12, 2015 by BKKSnowBird

[JimGant]

If you travel outside of your Medicare Advantage plan’s service area continuously for more than six months, you will automatically be disenrolled from most plans (A service area is the geographic region that you must live in to be enrolled in your plan). If you’re disenrolled, you will not lose coverage. You will automatically be put into Original Medicare if you do not choose another Medicare Advantage plan. You will have a Special Enrollment Period (SEP) to join a different Medicare Advantage plan

How they would know that is questionable -- but if you file more than one claim, I'm sure they'll detect a pattern that, at best, will solicit a question or two.

[NancyL]

Frankly, I'm not going to risk it. Hubby or I haven't been in the U.S. since 2008! He's paying for Part B in case he has to go back for an emergency and so will I when I'm age 65, but I'm not going to risk signing up for anything additional when we haven't been in the U.S. for years. When someone says, well, you won't have a problem with just one or two claims -- what's the point of even trying? Someone can google our names and see what we've been up to lately. It won't include any Facebook postings about travels in the U.S. or photos with grandkids at the Michigan cottage or anything like that! Instead it's a long history of activities in and around Thailand.

Edited July 13, 2015 by NancyL

[CaptHaddock]

"...one there is no state income tax so you don't have to deal with that issue and only deal with your obligations with the IRS as you are here "

You don't owe, or even have to file state tax forms if you live abroad full time.

first of all you totally missed the point of the advantage of having a legal address in the US so you can purchase a Medicare Advantage policy that covers emergencies out side the US - I have one so I don't worry about many medical conditions that can arise ( heart attack, stroke, brain aneurism ect ) my policy will cover 100 of expenses after a small deductible --- in terms of your " there are 7 states that do not have a state income tax but regardless of where you live in the world if you have income derived in the other 43 states you are subject to the tax rule and regulation of the tax department of that state -- so hence I made the point to chose a state that does not have an income tax ie Florida

I think your plan is a poor one for these reasons:

1. Your purchase of Medicare Advantage insurance is based on the fraudulent claim that you reside in the US. Since you do not reside in the US you are not eligible for MA. You believe that you are protecting yourself against some bad health outcome, but, in fact, you may not be protected at all. If the insurance company that you expect to pay your MA claim finds out that you were not eligible for the policy they can rescind it at any time, i.e. at the very moment when you need it. Of course, the insurance company may not find out, but now your security plan is based on a large unknown.

2. If you were to have a heart attack or stroke, you would not be hopping on a plane for a 20 hour flight to get treatment. You would need treatment urgently, i.e. here in Thailand, at least emergency care.

3. Having had a heart attack or stroke here, you would have got emergency treatment at a local hospital. Perhaps you would also need expensive, subsequent treatment, for instance a bypass or a pacemaker. Assuming you had followed the regulations and did not have MA insurance at this point (since you are not eligible) you could still get MA for your long term care by flying to the US and enrolling immediately in an MA plan. As a returning expat you have a 2 month period after repatriating to enroll in an MA or any of the other Medicare insurance plans, without financial penalty and without any exclusion of existing conditions. So, that would cover your cardiac surgery or whatever. Presumably you could buy the policy the day you land in the US. That means you would not have been paying the premiums for the period of your time outside the US for insurance that might not pay off.

So, your current plan is both risky and more expensive than it needs to be. You should think this through more carefully.

[TDCNINJA]

I got mine last month about the same time as as the OP. The address on my form is my Philippines address. The return address on the mailing envelope was wilkes Barre, PA. Have no idea why it wasn't from Baltimore.

Anyway, I went to LBC and mailed it to SSA-Manila. Guess I should call Manila tomorrow to make sure they received it.

I'm moving to Thailand first week of August. Once settled, I will call the SSA 1-800 number via magic jack and change the recipient address to Thailand.

To the person who was talking about having a "My SSA account." I opened mine via online in 2010, and while living abroad. Still have it today.

[jjczap]

"...one there is no state income tax so you don't have to deal with that issue and only deal with your obligations with the IRS as you are here "

You don't owe, or even have to file state tax forms if you live abroad full time.

first of all you totally missed the point of the advantage of having a legal address in the US so you can purchase a Medicare Advantage policy that covers emergencies out side the US - I have one so I don't worry about many medical conditions that can arise ( heart attack, stroke, brain aneurism ect ) my policy will cover 100 of expenses after a small deductible --- in terms of your " there are 7 states that do not have a state income tax but regardless of where you live in the world if you have income derived in the other 43 states you are subject to the tax rule and regulation of the tax department of that state -- so hence I made the point to chose a state that does not have an income tax ie Florida

I think your plan is a poor one for these reasons:

1. Your purchase of Medicare Advantage insurance is based on the fraudulent claim that you reside in the US. Since you do not reside in the US you are not eligible for MA. You believe that you are protecting yourself against some bad health outcome, but, in fact, you may not be protected at all. If the insurance company that you expect to pay your MA claim finds out that you were not eligible for the policy they can rescind it at any time, i.e. at the very moment when you need it. Of course, the insurance company may not find out, but now your security plan is based on a large unknown.

2. If you were to have a heart attack or stroke, you would not be hopping on a plane for a 20 hour flight to get treatment. You would need treatment urgently, i.e. here in Thailand, at least emergency care.

3. Having had a heart attack or stroke here, you would have got emergency treatment at a local hospital. Perhaps you would also need expensive, subsequent treatment, for instance a bypass or a pacemaker. Assuming you had followed the regulations and did not have MA insurance at this point (since you are not eligible) you could still get MA for your long term care by flying to the US and enrolling immediately in an MA plan. As a returning expat you have a 2 month period after repatriating to enroll in an MA or any of the other Medicare insurance plans, without financial penalty and without any exclusion of existing conditions. So, that would cover your cardiac surgery or whatever. Presumably you could buy the policy the day you land in the US. That means you would not have been paying the premiums for the period of your time outside the US for insurance that might not pay off.

So, your current plan is both risky and more expensive than it needs to be. You should think this through more carefully.

I normally try to avoid lengthy discussions here but by responding maybe it will help certain US expats here with a different way of thinking. There are thousands of US expats here from varying economic strata and personal journeys - from guest house dwellers to those who have " vacation homes " . Terms have been thrown about of "illegal, fraudulent etc " Everyone has their own plan strategy to protect themselves in their latter years. My concern is Emergency treatment traveling out side the US and the Big "C". I have a great Medicare Advantage plan and long term health care plan , I have done my do diligence and am confident I am covered in my life's journey. Myself and many of my neighbors and friends still own a home in the US . We pay our taxes, the insurance policy , the electric bill, the telephone bill, the car registration, driver license , all against the address along with correspondence from the ins co the 1040 and state filling all against the address -- this is our home this is where we live it is our legal address. We chose to travel the world in our retirement years. I have spent almost 2 hrs on the phone with the ins company to explain my situation. I told them some times I am out of the country for 9 months sometimes the entire year so help me understand coverage under the plan for emergencies outside the US. We used simple examples like I break my leg or arm and go to emergency and they fix me up and send me home - there response was you are responsible for the first 65$ of treatment. OK lets get more serious I get a stroke and some how I make it to the emergency room and now I am admitted - your charges for ambulance and er charges are 100% covered - ok I am in ICU for a week and then transferred to a room - you have to pay the first 310$ charge for the first 3 days and then everything is covered 100% - how long will you cover the hospital - for as long as you are admitted - ok in the states after a stroke you just don't go home there is a step down , you might be in a wheel chair needing speech therapy , physical therapy to walk again daily care - you are covered 100% but when you are medically certified to travel you must come back to the US to continue treatment --- starting to get the picture ? medical for normal things are so cheap here and other places in the world - what am I going to file a 300 baht charge from the clinic - what am I going to spend 5000$ for 2 round trips to the US for some medium treatment for which I still have to pay a deductible? Like I said Emergency treatment - If I come down with cancer back to US it will bankrupt you here

One gentleman talked about a 6 month rule - out of service area and canceled - why is that on certain policies - some people use the policy for many things , doctors , prescriptions , hospitals a lot - and say you leave Maine to go to Florida for the winter and you continue to use the services you are using what they call out of network which costs more for the company and you -- if you are out of the US believe me they are happy because the only thing they will cover is Emergencies

As I said there are many journeys open the aperture - for example my neighbor is a retired Dentist 72 - he has a WONDERFUL house here in his Thai wives name - he has a house in the US and will be going back in a few weeks for his yearly full free exam and dental treatment under his Medicare Advantage plan and is also covered for Emergencies here -- by the way he has a 3 year old son who is collecting 1100$ a month SS because his father was on SS when he was born

[CaptHaddock]

"...one there is no state income tax so you don't have to deal with that issue and only deal with your obligations with the IRS as you are here "

You don't owe, or even have to file state tax forms if you live abroad full time.

first of all you totally missed the point of the advantage of having a legal address in the US so you can purchase a Medicare Advantage policy that covers emergencies out side the US - I have one so I don't worry about many medical conditions that can arise ( heart attack, stroke, brain aneurism ect ) my policy will cover 100 of expenses after a small deductible --- in terms of your " there are 7 states that do not have a state income tax but regardless of where you live in the world if you have income derived in the other 43 states you are subject to the tax rule and regulation of the tax department of that state -- so hence I made the point to chose a state that does not have an income tax ie Florida

I think your plan is a poor one for these reasons:

1. Your purchase of Medicare Advantage insurance is based on the fraudulent claim that you reside in the US. Since you do not reside in the US you are not eligible for MA. You believe that you are protecting yourself against some bad health outcome, but, in fact, you may not be protected at all. If the insurance company that you expect to pay your MA claim finds out that you were not eligible for the policy they can rescind it at any time, i.e. at the very moment when you need it. Of course, the insurance company may not find out, but now your security plan is based on a large unknown.

2. If you were to have a heart attack or stroke, you would not be hopping on a plane for a 20 hour flight to get treatment. You would need treatment urgently, i.e. here in Thailand, at least emergency care.

3. Having had a heart attack or stroke here, you would have got emergency treatment at a local hospital. Perhaps you would also need expensive, subsequent treatment, for instance a bypass or a pacemaker. Assuming you had followed the regulations and did not have MA insurance at this point (since you are not eligible) you could still get MA for your long term care by flying to the US and enrolling immediately in an MA plan. As a returning expat you have a 2 month period after repatriating to enroll in an MA or any of the other Medicare insurance plans, without financial penalty and without any exclusion of existing conditions. So, that would cover your cardiac surgery or whatever. Presumably you could buy the policy the day you land in the US. That means you would not have been paying the premiums for the period of your time outside the US for insurance that might not pay off.

So, your current plan is both risky and more expensive than it needs to be. You should think this through more carefully.

I normally try to avoid lengthy discussions here but by responding maybe it will help certain US expats here with a different way of thinking. There are thousands of US expats here from varying economic strata and personal journeys - from guest house dwellers to those who have " vacation homes " . Terms have been thrown about of "illegal, fraudulent etc " Everyone has their own plan strategy to protect themselves in their latter years. My concern is Emergency treatment traveling out side the US and the Big "C". I have a great Medicare Advantage plan and long term health care plan , I have done my do diligence and am confident I am covered in my life's journey. Myself and many of my neighbors and friends still own a home in the US . We pay our taxes, the insurance policy , the electric bill, the telephone bill, the car registration, driver license , all against the address along with correspondence from the ins co the 1040 and state filling all against the address -- this is our home this is where we live it is our legal address. We chose to travel the world in our retirement years. I have spent almost 2 hrs on the phone with the ins company to explain my situation. I told them some times I am out of the country for 9 months sometimes the entire year so help me understand coverage under the plan for emergencies outside the US. We used simple examples like I break my leg or arm and go to emergency and they fix me up and send me home - there response was you are responsible for the first 65$ of treatment. OK lets get more serious I get a stroke and some how I make it to the emergency room and now I am admitted - your charges for ambulance and er charges are 100% covered - ok I am in ICU for a week and then transferred to a room - you have to pay the first 310$ charge for the first 3 days and then everything is covered 100% - how long will you cover the hospital - for as long as you are admitted - ok in the states after a stroke you just don't go home there is a step down , you might be in a wheel chair needing speech therapy , physical therapy to walk again daily care - you are covered 100% but when you are medically certified to travel you must come back to the US to continue treatment --- starting to get the picture ? medical for normal things are so cheap here and other places in the world - what am I going to file a 300 baht charge from the clinic - what am I going to spend 5000$ for 2 round trips to the US for some medium treatment for which I still have to pay a deductible? Like I said Emergency treatment - If I come down with cancer back to US it will bankrupt you here

One gentleman talked about a 6 month rule - out of service area and canceled - why is that on certain policies - some people use the policy for many things , doctors , prescriptions , hospitals a lot - and say you leave Maine to go to Florida for the winter and you continue to use the services you are using what they call out of network which costs more for the company and you -- if you are out of the US believe me they are happy because the only thing they will cover is Emergencies

As I said there are many journeys open the aperture - for example my neighbor is a retired Dentist 72 - he has a WONDERFUL house here in his Thai wives name - he has a house in the US and will be going back in a few weeks for his yearly full free exam and dental treatment under his Medicare Advantage plan and is also covered for Emergencies here -- by the way he has a 3 year old son who is collecting 1100$ a month SS because his father was on SS when he was born

If your legal residence is still in the US, then there would be nothing fraudulent about continuing a Medicare Advantage policy.

[Langsuan Man]

The Thai government does not accept your as a legal resident, they will only give you a non immigrant visa, and only if you apply for permanent residency do you have any small amount of legal protection allowing you to stay here (which they can revoke at the drop of a hat) so all this discussion about not having a US residence for Social Security purposes is a non starter

You have to be a resident of somewhere and other than the very small minority that have been granted permanent residency here in Thailand you are all still a legal resident of your home country and you passport proves that

IMHO, if I pay taxes in the US, I am still a resident of the US, no matter where I may physically be located during any period of time

[CaptHaddock]

The Thai government does not accept your as a legal resident, they will only give you a non immigrant visa, and only if you apply for permanent residency do you have any small amount of legal protection allowing you to stay here (which they can revoke at the drop of a hat) so all this discussion about not having a US residence for Social Security purposes is a non starter

You have to be a resident of somewhere and other than the very small minority that have been granted permanent residency here in Thailand you are all still a legal resident of your home country and you passport proves that

IMHO, if I pay taxes in the US, I am still a resident of the US, no matter where I may physically be located during any period of time

You just made all that up and it's completely false.

Your status as a US citizen residing in the US has nothing to do with whatever status the Thai government considers you to have, in particular, there is no requirement that an American must establish permanent residency in a foreign country in order not to be considered as residing in the US. This should be obvious since most of us who reside in Thailand are not permanent residents and yet we can legally claim not to reside in the US, not to be liable for state taxes, to qualify for the FEIE, etc. We do not have to be a legal resident of anywhere. Paying federal income tax does not establish residency in the US. It does not even establish tax domicile. As everyone knows we are liable for federal income tax based on citizenship, not residency.

The OP chose to maintain the US as his legal residence in the eyes of the Medicare administration of the US government. He need not have, as most of us here have not.

[JLCrab]

Frankly, I'm not going to risk it. Hubby or I haven't been in the U.S. since 2008! He's paying for Part B in case he has to go back for an emergency and so will I when I'm age 65, but I'm not going to risk signing up for anything additional when we haven't been in the U.S. for years. When someone says, well, you won't have a problem with just one or two claims -- what's the point of even trying? Someone can google our names and see what we've been up to lately. It won't include any Facebook postings about travels in the U.S. or photos with grandkids at the Michigan cottage or anything like that! Instead it's a long history of activities in and around Thailand.

I will be turning 65 shortly. I will be exempt from the Medicare Part B penalties because:

I am the director of a US 501c3 non-profit.

I am fully covered while in Thailand with a Thai-based health insurer.

The volunteer program covers at least a 12-month period outside the US

Section 5115 Waiver of Medicare Part B late enrollment penalty for certain international volunteers

Deficit reduction Act of 2005

Edited July 15, 2015 by JLCrab

[NancyL]

As pointed out, we're all in different situations. For someone like Hubby and me who haven't set foot in the U.S. for years, there is no "advantage" to setting up Medicare Advantage when our only tie to the U.S. is a Miami mailing forwarding address and a financial and tax relationship. Indeed the word "fraudulent" would probably apply in our situation.

Others shouldn't be advising people like us to apply for Medicare Advantage.