where would you buy a condo ? city centre, beachfront, rural ?

[dirtycash]

i bought a condo recently in central pattaya ( City Centre Residence ) got a great deal and completed total cash pre sale. few people have said they think i bought too soon and bought in the wrong location. i bought in city centre ( near soi buahkao ) to appeal to rental market , to sell to people who wanted to be nearer to central pattaya instead of outside near wongamat or pratumak , or worst case senario i will live in it from time to time myself and lend it out to friends ,family and work colleagues.

obviously the developers ( matrix ) know the market or they would not throw away money on a project that no one was going to be buying in.

where would your choice be if buying around the pattaya area, i do not like and neve r have liked jomtien for some reason though i know condos can be bought there for much less money and especially now that the russians are selling up.

your thoughts.

[hhgz]

Since you've already purchased a condo, telling you where you should have bought is a moot point.

Edited June 17, 2015 by hhgz

[PattayaPhom]

Each to their own requirements. CCR is a basic construction from Matrix. Maintenance fees are high at 49 per sqm and sinking fund 600. They purchased the land 4 years ago so wouldn't judge their competence in the marketplace now too much....whats happened to Sky on Watboon???.. Located on 3rd may suit some. City Garden Soi 15 would be my preference for Central Pattaya. Some prefer seaviews etc. As for rental, central is popular.

[KittenKong]

Developers are interested in building fast and selling quickly. They have no real interest in what happens after the building is completed and sold.

In contrast most buyers should be more interested in what will happen a few months/years/decades down the line.

My personal opinion is that there are many units already completed in and around that area with many thousands more to come. So I expect that oversupply will rear its ugly head soon, if it hasn't already.

As mentioned, that high maintenance fee is not something that I would want to be letting myself in for. The fee in my Jomtien building is only a quarter of that.

[Henryford]

Read the articles on Matrix's development "Art on the Hill".

[dirtycash]

i have heard all about ( art on the hill ) i bought here at CCR for rental potential or to flip it. though on hindsight i should have waited but then wait too long and you miss the deal. i got a good deal with full furniture pack and thai company name for 2.5M , 1 off cash payment . once completed these units will be sold by matrix for approx 2.9M so i will sell or i will keep it 3-4 years, rent it out then sell.

typically do people prefer a poolside condo , middle floor or top floor. bearing in mind if there are no sea views .

[WorkingTourist]

i have heard all about ( art on the hill )

Really? Have you read the following thread? http://www.pattaya-addicts.com/forum/topic/232171-art-on-the-hill-condo-debacle-in-pattaya/

This is cause for serious concern.

The “completion” of the condo was delayed by 2-3 years. Even now it’s questionable whether the condominium has been approved for occupancy, and people are still waiting to get their title deeds. During all of this, people either got no information from Matrix or were fed lies (since the stories changed).

Some got compensations, but Matrix later turned back on that saying they hadn’t signed any agreement, yet others were told they could not get a refund, because they agreed to the compensation plan.

Items from the sales material were left out (like Jacuzzi and sauna), here’s a 3D model versus reality:

http://media.pattaya-addicts.com/images/forum/uploads/monthly_06_2015/post-145333-0-65466900-1433408264.jpg

The units themselves sounds like pretty low quality: light fittings that splinter because they can’t take the heat from the lightbulbs, doors that doesn’t close properly, fridges that are suitable only as a minibar fridge, water coming out of the wall when using the air condition, etc.

One thing is that this is a budget condo (which I think is also clear from the 3D images), another is that the buyers are kept in the dark with respect to why the project is delayed, when it will be completed, when they can get their title deeds, if it’s even approved for occupancy, cheated out of promised compensation, or denied refunds, despite breach of contract.

i bought here at CCR for rental potential or to flip it. though on hindsight i should have waited but then wait too long and you miss the deal.

Fear of missing out is a powerful sales tool

i got a good deal with full furniture pack and thai company name for 2.5M , 1 off cash payment . once completed these units will be sold by matrix for approx 2.9M so i will sell or i will keep it 3-4 years, rent it out then sell.

Matrix might say they’ll sell them for 2.9M when completed, but in the above thread about AOTH, one guy mentions that a new buyer got their unit 30% cheaper than the off plan price.

Also keep in mind that you have to pay sinking fund when you move in, and when you sell it, you’ll have to pay stamp duty, transfer fee, withholding tax, and possibly sales agent commission. So even if you are able to sell at 2.9M in 3-4 years, you’ll not pocket 400k.

I also question how easy it is to sell a condo owned by a company, as opposed to one that can be fully owned by a foreigner (of which there should be plenty).

Sorry to be a downer, I wish you the best of luck with your purchase, and I really hope that it’ll work better with CCR than it did with AOTH.

[WorkingTourist]

typically do people prefer a poolside condo , middle floor or top floor. bearing in mind if there are no sea views .

Based on how most projects are priced, it would seem that the higher floors are preferred.

These generally have more privacy and less noise. The main downside is the larger distance going up and down, for example if you prefer the stairs or there are too few lifts, in which case you may have to endure lots of extra stops.

As for the view, if you have something nice nearby, like a garden or canal, then too high up might mean you won’t really see this, unless you step out on your balcony and look down.

For poolside, this has the most noise and the least privacy. I can only imagine people with children, who want to keep an eye on them, preferring such location.

[ldnguy]

Developers are interested in building fast and selling quickly. They have no real interest in what happens after the building is completed and sold.

In contrast most buyers should be more interested in what will happen a few months/years/decades down the line.

My personal opinion is that there are many units already completed in and around that area with many thousands more to come. So I expect that oversupply will rear its ugly head soon, if it hasn't already.

As mentioned, that high maintenance fee is not something that I would want to be letting myself in for. The fee in my Jomtien building is only a quarter of that.

But a higher maintenance fee is more likely to lead to better maintenance. A low fee might mean not enough money in future years, so a slowly deteriorating building. Just a hunch.

[KittenKong]

As mentioned, that high maintenance fee is not something that I would want to be letting myself in for. The fee in my Jomtien building is only a quarter of that.

But a higher maintenance fee is more likely to lead to better maintenance. A low fee might mean not enough money in future years, so a slowly deteriorating building. Just a hunch.

In my hands-on experience of condo management I have found that more money in the kitty just leads to more rip-offs by management and more pointless expenditure on unnecessary items.

In most older buildings a variable supplementary fee is voted every year to cover extra costs, and the money balances out nicely enough. My own building has a fully paid-up sinking fund also.

[PattayaPhom]

Why on earth buy in Thai company?....the beauty of condos is owning them.

[properperson]

Why on earth buy in Thai company?....the beauty of condos is owning them.

he'll learn.....

coughng up 15k a year audit fees, making false declarations to the revenue that the company receives no revenue...

only a matter of time before there's a knock on the door.

And then when he tries to sell it, realising that Thai Company stuff isn't desirable unless its for nowt, he'll be in for a long wait....

....

[dirtycash]

Why on earth buy in Thai company?....the beauty of condos is owning them.

he'll learn.....

coughng up 15k a year audit fees, making false declarations to the revenue that the company receives no revenue...

only a matter of time before there's a knock on the door.

And then when he tries to sell it, realising that Thai Company stuff isn't desirable unless its for nowt, he'll be in for a long wait....

....

thai company name is not a problem, i could have bought in foreign name but when you sell a unit in a foreign name then you must pay ( 40% i think ) more tax on the overall value of the property.

correct me if im wrong.

so nobody anything positive to say about buying a condo from matrix ? or even buying a condo to re sell, look at all the condos on nova mirage wongamnat 10 years on and theyre still keeping their prices.

Edited June 19, 2015 by dirtycash

[MaeJoMTB]

Prices are falling

Off plans are not being finished

You broke the law to buy it

Still 2.5M isn't a lot to lose.

Could have been a lot worse.

[WorkingTourist]

thai company name is not a problem, i could have bought in foreign name but when you sell a unit in a foreign name then you must pay ( 40% i think ) more tax on the overall value of the property.

That is wrong. If you sell at 2.9M after 4 years your withholding tax will be around 2.2%. I have posted a spreadsheet model to calculate withholding tax.

If you sell as a company, the withholding tax will be fixed at 1% but you will have to pay special business tax which is 3.3%.

So you will end up paying more in tax, have yearly accounting expenses, and fees related to transferring ownership of your Thai company into new buyer’s name.

so nobody anything positive to say about buying a condo from matrix ?

I think the AOTH thread makes it very clear what type of developer Matrix is.

It sounds like they were a good developer of budget condos some years ago, but someone in management passed away, and now it’s a mess (delays, missing permits, shabby construction) and their ethics are questionable (lying to their customers, going back on promises about compensation).

or even buying a condo to re sell, look at all the condos on nova mirage wongamnat 10 years on and theyre still keeping their prices.

If they are selling at the same price now as 10 years ago, then they have effectively gone down in value when you account for inflation.

And as implied above, when you sell the condo, you’ll pay fees and withholding tax of the entire value, so while buying a condo and sell later with a profit is certainly not impossible, buying a typical budget unit in Pattaya and thinking it’ll make you a profit, is naive.

Buy a condo to live in. If you want to buy as investor, you need to do some research. That you don’t know about taxes, the issues with company owned condos, ask here about Matrix after first instalment has been paid, indicates that you have done zero research or due diligence, so for you to come out of this with a profit, would make you tremendously lucky

[KittenKong]

thai company name is not a problem, i could have bought in foreign name but when you sell a unit in a foreign name then you must pay ( 40% i think ) more tax on the overall value of the property.

Just a guess, but was it someone connected with the sale who told you that?

One thing you have to remember is that most people here will tell you anything you want to hear in order to sell you something.

[trogers]

thai company name is not a problem, i could have bought in foreign name but when you sell a unit in a foreign name then you must pay ( 40% i think ) more tax on the overall value of the property.

Just a guess, but was it someone connected with the sale who told you that?

One thing you have to remember is that most people here will tell you anything you want to hear in order to sell you something.

Properties sold under a company's name are liable for higher taxes than under a person's name.

[rayongchelsea]

Why on earth buy in Thai company?....the beauty of condos is owning them.

he'll learn.....

coughng up 15k a year audit fees, making false declarations to the revenue that the company receives no revenue...

only a matter of time before there's a knock on the door.

And then when he tries to sell it, realising that Thai Company stuff isn't desirable unless its for nowt, he'll be in for a long wait....

....

thai company name is not a problem, i could have bought in foreign name but when you sell a unit in a foreign name then you must pay ( 40% i think ) more tax on the overall value of the property.

correct me if im wrong.

so nobody anything positive to say about buying a condo from matrix ? or even buying a condo to re sell, look at all the condos on nova mirage wongamnat 10 years on and theyre still keeping their prices.

Thai company is a big problem you reduce those who are likely to buy to almost no one, Condos are not very liquid to start with , you have just compounded that problem. If you sell as an individual it's about 5% and you can split it. If you sell to an individual you will need to transfer the asset ( taxed) out and dissolve the company yourself..

[eggers]

The question is now theoretical.....It's rather "shutting the gate after the horse has bolted"!

As an observation of the market, if Pattaya is anything like BKK & Hua Hin there is huge oversupply & new condos are continuing to be built when current supply is undersold.

The impact on rentals is much the same, as Thai's seem to want "new"; anything older than 2 yrs is taking extended time + rent reduction.

Also, new condos are small, by comparison w/ condos of 3 -5 yrs, i.e. new 2 Bdrm 50 sq/m, older 2 Bdrm 80 sq/m +.

The older condos due to size seem to appeal to "farangs" + can get good deal.

Think Thailand is in midst of property "bubble" as to when that could change is anyone's guess, as such, would not buy property in Thailand.

Wish "Dirtycash" best of luck w/ his purchase!!

[elgenon]

If he bought the condo as a Thai business, is there a chance in the future that he could not sell to an individual foreigner because the 49% allowed to individual foreigners had been exceeded?

[little mary sunshine]

I rent here, great owner 78sqm...B9500/mo...Been here 4 yrs

Will stay 15 more I hope.....Where would I BUY...HONOLULU

555555555555555555555555565555555555

[elgenon]

I rent here, great owner 78sqm...B9500/mo...Been here 4 yrs

Will stay 15 more I hope.....Where would I BUY...HONOLULU

555555555555555555555555565555555555

Where are you?

[jacksam]

I'm no investment expert...on a side line of thinking, how many Chinese are buying condos in thailand.

They are buying a LOT of real estate in Australia. Partly due to their children doing degrees there. Also because they get visa/immigration deals.

Main reason is they make money. I sold new townhouse to my sister in city of Melbourne for $160AU 14 years ago. Last month she sold it for 630k.

My super fund (medium/high risk spread) has gone up over approx 15% per year, last two years.

Why buy in thailand. I understand it if your married etc want a place more like a house.

Otherwise Rent . The figures don't support rental returns and capital growth.

Edited June 20, 2015 by jacksam

[cruisemonkey]

The only thing I would consider is a unit facing the water in an established building on absolute beach front property. In other words, were the view can't possibly be blocked by another 40-story monstrosity, rising 5 meters away, full of 23 sqm 'studios' that will start to fall apart before the building is finished.

... and I wouldn't buy, I'd rent.

Edited June 20, 2015 by cruisemonkey

[trogers]

The question is now theoretical.....It's rather "shutting the gate after the horse has bolted"!

As an observation of the market, if Pattaya is anything like BKK & Hua Hin there is huge oversupply & new condos are continuing to be built when current supply is undersold.

The impact on rentals is much the same, as Thai's seem to want "new"; anything older than 2 yrs is taking extended time + rent reduction.

Also, new condos are small, by comparison w/ condos of 3 -5 yrs, i.e. new 2 Bdrm 50 sq/m, older 2 Bdrm 80 sq/m +.

The older condos due to size seem to appeal to "farangs" + can get good deal.

Think Thailand is in midst of property "bubble" as to when that could change is anyone's guess, as such, would not buy property in Thailand.

Wish "Dirtycash" best of luck w/ his purchase!!

Even older 2-bedroom units at 100-120 sqm...lol

[swissie]

Donald Trump has discovered Pattaya as an investors paradise and "dirtycash" is only his scout. Buy whatever you can, before Donald Trump / dirtycash gobbles it all up and there will be nothing left to buy.

==================

Never mind: I would never give permission to my daughters to marry a Farang that hovers around a public forum, sailing under the name of "dirtycash".

Cheers.

[blackcab]

When it comes time to sell, why not sell the business structure and the property it owns, all in one go, to the same person.

The property doesn't change owners (on the chanote at least), the business changes directors.

Edited June 20, 2015 by blackcab

[anfh]

I looked at buying off plan a few a couple of years ago, and considered a number of Matrix developements, but after reading about nightmares of people buying off plan, not only with Matrix, i decided to buy a completed condo which is a few years old so all the problems have been dealt with etc. Also, it is in foreign name so no problems with tax etc. All the promises of ROI by developers all seems to good to be true, and usually is !!!

I looked at a development in Phuket as well, that one was supposed to be completed by june this year --- they havent started it yet !!!! Many of the people who have put money down for these are Thai, there is now a considerable law suit in place to try and get their money back, but the developers appear to be hiding !!!

[mrfaroukh]

If you rent a bike and ride in Pattaya you will see there is no limitation of land to build a new project. So I don't think there will be a huge appreciation in price if there will be any. If you buy to use it yourself is another issue. Everyone has their own preference. Some like Cosy Beach, Pratumnak, Budha hill etc because it is more quite and look more like Europe housing. But myself I don't like any of them as they are far, may be dangerous, and not close to anything.

The location you bought is good but when will that be ready? How much did you pay for it? There price of condo where I am staying at the moment was around 85000 SQM about 9 months back. Today people are selling anywhere between 43000 to 51000 Sqm. So what you taught was a good deal may not be true now.

The only limited land here are the one which is sea view and in center like 2nd road etc. So if I ever want to buy that would be my preference as it is nice to stay and also there may be good appreciation in price for my kids when I am not here any more in 30 years from now. :=)

[1FinickyOne]

If you are renting top floor, get at least a month in advance...